I think problems occur when trying to emulate someone else's instinct. You may be able to copy their behavior, but you can't really acquire anyone else's instinct (even if you could somehow determine what their instincts actually are).
Nobody's saying you have to emulate someone's instinct, instead maybe emulate someone's behavior. Eating is a behavioral experience. We've all been able to adapt to new patterns of eating, I know I don't eat like I used to 20yrs ago. I pick up new good habits every year and after doing them a long time they become part of who I am. I quit coffee a few months ago. Didn't want to, had to. I hated it but I adapted and now I don't drink coffee and that's just it. As humans we are made to adapt and we can choose to adapt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanG
I think it is a lot more causal than we might think though, at least in my experience. This may have something to do with you being a man and I'm not saying that to be sexist or anything, I've just noticed that men leave thought out of many decisions they make because they tend to see things in black or white.
Most people (here) seem to think that weightloss is an "effort" that requires "motivation" and actively fighting your instincts and desires to make a real lifestyle change. I agree with you here but probably for different reasons than you.
But what if just what you eat (less how much) determines how much "effort" and "motivation" you really need? What if what you eat actually changes how you feel? Might have worked for you but positively definitely does not work for others. People with ED can't afford to go down the line of thinking. It is so far removed from what we experience and it causes a lot of damage. Food impacts how our bodies function, but if you're someone who reaches for food as a coping mechanism then this cannot work. We have to change our mind first.
Bottom line: change what you eat and everything else takes care of itself. I wish it were that easy and I'm so glad for you that this is the case here. It does seem very simple. It just doesn't apply to some people.
The only trick is to find healthy foods that you enjoy. And the choice of those is probably genetic. My grandfather liked fish. And by God, so do I.That is so so so silly to think this way. Food is cultural so what our parents and ancestors ate does affect how we eat. But liking fish in and of itself does not mean that you are genetically predisposed to be healthy. So while what you say may be true in a sense I don't think it's very relevant.
What we eat and why we eat are inseparable concepts. Eating is wrapped up in so many social and emotional scenarios. We have to navigate cultural traditions, social expectations, holidays, parties, other eaters, for someone who battles food problems every meal is a potential landmine. It's almost as if we have a moral obligation to eat in some of these instances. It's just not easy.
Eating is wrapped up in so many social and emotional scenarios. We have to navigate cultural traditions, social expectations, holidays, parties, other eaters, for someone who battles food problems every meal is a potential landmine. It's almost as if we have a moral obligation to eat in some of these instances. It's just not easy.
I am not sure about this. I agree if you are going out or enjoying family celebrations or social occasions for half of your meals. I absolutely let a social occasion trump my "diet". Life is too short not to enjoy oneself in the good company of others around good food.
However, and perhaps I am socially inept, I am probably put in a situation like this like one meal a month. Don't get me wrong, I'd like more chances! But the reality is that the other 89 meals I eat that month are my own choice with no social or cultural expectations around me.
If it became easier to exercise and eat healthy as you continue your journey, why do so many people regain the weight?
Anyways, there are a lot of people who never knew me when I weighed a lot more than I currently do. I would not be surprised if they thought I was one of those "naturally skinny" folks.
I agree, it's not like I have to will myself to exercise or eat within a certain portion every.single.day. I have become less angsty about refusing to accept a food or drink when I don't want it. It's not like I go to bed still vamished. I have been able to find the meals and an eating pattern that will satisfy me by the end of the day.
But I am often still aware of how much more I could eat than what I do. I have to plan my meals and exercises in advance. I am always vigilant.
Reading this thread I recalled reading about this study and being astonished at this - "researchers found more than 100 locations across the genome that play roles in various obesity traits." More than 100 locations! If we assume only 2 gene variations to each location then the number of possible genotypes is 2^100 ??? Mind boggling.. and actually might mean that the phrase "We are each an experiment of one" completely holds true when it comes to obesity..
If it became easier to exercise and eat healthy as you continue your journey, why do so many people regain the weight?
Excellent question. I would argue it is because they go on prescribed/branded diets that provide weightloss as per rules or (worse) foods/packets that you have to buy but teach you nothing about how your body works or maintenance. They stop the diet. The weight returns.
My diet I made up myself based on trial and error. I found foods that work for my body (and I enjoy eating) and ditched those that do not. Same with exercise with a focus on the stuff I really like. This makes maintenance a breeze as I had a year of learning how my body works and customizing my diet and exercise regime to suit. No Weight Watchers, IP, Medifast or any of that shenanigans for me. It's been a constant learning process. Not just putting my blind faith in a "brand".
It took me decades to learn that trying to emulate "thin behavior" doesn't work for me. I can't eat just one serving of potato chips or cookies. I can't eat only when hungry, because I'm always hungry. I have to count calories or portions. I have to avoid many foods other people have no difficulty with.
A lot of what works for me, is nothing at all like what most people (thin or not) do, let alone find natural.
I may never be able to eat, think, and behave like a naturally thin person, but I don't need to. I need to experiment and find what works, and if what works is strange and unnatural, that's ok
I am not sure about this. I agree if you are going out or enjoying family celebrations or social occasions for half of your meals. I absolutely let a social occasion trump my "diet". Life is too short not to enjoy oneself in the good company of others around good food.
However, and perhaps I am socially inept, I am probably put in a situation like this like one meal a month. Don't get me wrong, I'd like more chances! But the reality is that the other 89 meals I eat that month are my own choice with no social or cultural expectations around me.
I probably didn't explain what I meant well. It's not just about being social, it's about being tied to cultural beliefs around food. The whole 3 square meals a day thing for example, is it necessary? Do we need 3? Some of us don't but lots of us get fat because we eat according to a schedule rather than figuring out our body's true needs. Some people need 6 meals a day!
Ever sat down at thanksgiving dinner and sai "I'm not really hungry, I'll just have some salad." No! Because it's a cultural anathema! And it's not just holidays, it's the daily dinner bell or the dessert menu beig handed to you at the end of a meal, we are constantly being called to eat by external signals.
Excellent question. I would argue it is because they go on prescribed/branded diets that provide weightloss as per rules or (worse) foods/packets that you have to buy but teach you nothing about how your body works or maintenance. They stop the diet. The weight returns.
I think there is some definute truth to the first half of your statement for a lot of people, and it explains a lot of cases. But even so, I know people who don't follow diets, just eat healthy and the right foods, drop forty pounds and still end up putting it back on... Because even if they physically feel better, even if the cravings for sugary and bad things diminishes, there's still something mentally that had to be conquered that wasn't, and the food difference only fought half the battle. That's my mom. She's been all about eating better foods, less processed, finding what her body can handle... And she's still considered Obese and hasn't been keeping the pounds she looses off... She suffered from an eating disorder and messed up her metabolism. She's been institutionalized twice and been on food plans to help her for months at a time... And they didn't fix her metabolism. I really like what you said about "one size does not fit all" and its totally true, I would even extend that to say "one result does not fit all" or is "not typical for all". I think there are definitely people that do need to look at weight loss more like you do though IanG. It would diminish the " diet" mentality and the punishing an negative thoughts. A lot of people need that. And a lot of people need to think more like Kaplods, or, Palestrina or one of the many, many other people hear.
Ranjo said it perfectly: "I don't really think there's a chance for all of us to came to a same conclusion. The reason simply being we all have different reasons why we got fat in the first place."
For me, I am very fortunate. I don't have emotional attachments to eating, I don't eat for comfort or anything. Boredom? Used to, but that was easier to break by grabbing a glass of water or playing with my rubix cube instead. I just don't follow the things that "naturally" skinny people seem to do. I always clear my plate, its what we were taught as kids. I grab more than I need and don't wait or listen to my body's responses. I was completely unaware of proper portion sizes for myself. I skipped meals that shouldn't have been skipped and ate meals that shouldn't have been eaten. I have an office job, and never took the time to get active. I drank too much soda and grabbed too much sweets.
" think there is some definute truth to the first half of your statement for a lot of people, and it explains a lot of cases. But even so, I know people who don't follow diets, just eat healthy and the right foods, drop forty pounds and still end up putting it back on... Because even if they physically feel better, even if the cravings for sugary and bad things diminishes, there's still something mentally that had to be conquered that wasn't, and the food difference only fought half the battle."
There is still something mentally that had to be conquered that wasn't and food was half the battle. That's exactly it thanks for clarifying, this is a point I was trying to make. I will go even further and say that food itself is not the problem in my case, it's my behavior around food. People will do some desperate things when they're binging and eat foods you can't imagine, people will binge on broccoli for lack of something better. Food is not really the point in a case like that. Food doesn't cause the binging, it's my mental state of mind that causes me to binge.
Food doesn't cause the binging, it's my mental state of mind that causes me to binge.
That's an interesting statement. I exercise a lot. Most people think I do it to lose weight or to look good or whatever. But really it's about how it helps me cope with anxiety. It gets rid of it. And I have a lot to be anxious about for an already anxious person.
Before I started to work out, I used to eat badly when I was stressed (I just didn't care), so I agree that the state of mind and what (some) people desire to eat/do eat could be closely linked. For me, it felt like a survival instinct kicking in that would induce bad eating choices (what might be termed a binge).
That's an interesting statement. I exercise a lot. Most people think I do it to lose weight or to look good or whatever. But really it's about how it helps me cope with anxiety. It gets rid of it. And I have a lot to be anxious about for an already anxious person.
Before I started to work out, I used to eat badly when I was stressed (I just didn't care), so I agree that the state of mind and what (some) people desire to eat/do eat could be closely linked. For me, it felt like a survival instinct kicking in that would induce bad eating choices (what might be termed a binge).
I can certainly relate to that, I'm a very anxious person myself. Depression and anxiety run in my family and I've always tried to cope without medication although sometimes I wonder why. Exercise is very important to me as well for the same reasons, it's why I exercise daily. It's not just cause I want to, but I have to. It doesn't have any effect on whether or not I use food to cope though. Exercise makes me hungrier too.
There is still something mentally that had to be conquered that wasn't and food was half the battle. That's exactly it thanks for clarifying, this is a point I was trying to make. I will go even further and say that food itself is not the problem in my case, it's my behavior around food. People will do some desperate things when they're binging and eat foods you can't imagine, people will binge on broccoli for lack of something better. Food is not really the point in a case like that. Food doesn't cause the binging, it's my mental state of mind that causes me to binge.
Yep, when I was in OA in my early twenties I was about 115lbs. The only reason why I maintained a low weight was because I lived alone and only kept very low calorie foods in my house...and I binged on those. I recall once slicing an entire onion and baking it to eat, or once eating a whole bag of frozen broccoli, or cooking an entire carton of eggs (tossing the yolks) one at a time. The reason why it scared me so much was because of the manic state of mind when I binged, not because it was unhealthy for me to eat 100-200 calories worth of food in the evening.
But even so, I know people who don't follow diets, just eat healthy and the right foods, drop forty pounds and still end up putting it back on... Because even if they physically feel better, even if the cravings for sugary and bad things diminishes, there's still something mentally that had to be conquered that wasn't, and the food difference only fought half the battle
This! I think all of us at one point or another have been guilty of believing that if someone just adopted "our" way of losing weight they wouldn't have a problem. The numbers don't lie, though: Statistically, I don't care what diet (or "lifestyle change" for those who think that wording really makes a difference) someone loses weight on, the fact is that most people who lose weight end up regaining it within five years. I've known people who have lost fast and those who have lost the "right" way, and it's still a struggle for either party. I calorie counted for 3 1/2 years, and for 3 of those years, I was maintaining. The slow creep started, though, a few months ago, and now I've probably had a 5-10 lb regain. A year ago, I would have sworn that I would never regain the weight, yet here I am struggling to patch up the holes in the boat before it sinks. The main thing I have learned from all these years of dieting, though, is that I need to keep trying. Once I give up, the weight WILL come back. To me, achieving and maintaining a satisfying weight is mainly about mindset.
Yep, when I was in OA in my early twenties I was about 115lbs. The only reason why I maintained a low weight was because I lived alone and only kept very low calorie foods in my house...and I binged on those. I recall once slicing an entire onion and baking it to eat, or once eating a whole bag of frozen broccoli, or cooking an entire carton of eggs (tossing the yolks) one at a time. The reason why it scared me so much was because of the manic state of mind when I binged, not because it was unhealthy for me to eat 100-200 calories worth of food in the evening.
Case in point then. Someone who hasn't suffered with an ED probably can't relate to the manic state you mention here but I sure can!
