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Old 05-29-2014, 09:43 AM   #16  
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This is very discouraging to hear, because once again IE is completely being misinterpreted. IE is NOT about eating whatever you want whenever you want it in whatever amounts you want, I don't know why this myth is so perpetual. IE is a methodical process of rebuilding your relationship with food, it's a lot of hard work, the hardest work I've ever had to do. It has taken me so far out of my comfort zone, and forced me to think about things that I've never had to address before. It's so painful to hear people dumb it down to the "eat whatever you feel like" diet. It just makes it sounds like we are stupid dumb people who are too lazy to lose weight. It's ok to not understand what IE is, but to blame a 100lb gain on IE is ... well I don't even know what to say about that.
First no one is saying you are lazy. Where do you get that? You are obviously working the way of eating to work for you. But intuitive eating says this

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Intuitive eating is designed to be a "common sense, hunger-based approach to eating," where participants are encouraged to eat when and only when their body tells them it is hungry.
What I am telling you is that I did eat only when my body gave me hunger clues. I never pigged out. I never binged. I ate when I was hungry and didn't get full signals until I had eaten a huge quantity of foods. Believe me, I tried to only eat when I felt hungry.... But the types of foods I was eating MADE me feel hungry much more often and I don't think I have a normal "I'm full" cue. My husband follows intuitive eating. He only eats when he feels hungry. That could be at midnight, but if he is hungry, he'll eat and he only eats enough to feel satisfied and I always feel baffled how he can feel satisfied with the amount he eats.

See, I think you are the one who doesn't get it, SOME OF US don't feel the hunger feelings normally or the full signals normally. I wish I did, I reallllllly do. My mom said she saw it in me as a kid, I just had this insatiable appetite and she worried I would get overweight, even though as a kid I was not overweight at all.

My way to combat it is to eat the most saturating foods I can to try to feed the hunger to the best I can, eating starchy carbs just leads me to feeling famished and is disaster for me. That obviously isn't true for you and I understand that and appreciate that. But when I say I cannot eat for hunger, I truly mean it.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:49 AM   #17  
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Ah, the perpetual IE discussion...interesting how it crops up on virtually every diet thread. It reminds me of the religion folks who ring my doorbell. As if they need to convert others to validate their own choice.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:53 AM   #18  
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BBB, my mom has been trying to explain that to me for years - she just never feels satisfied, no matter how much she eats. Put that together with some carb addictions, and yeah, I see the problem. Me, I have all the right signals but I need to listen with absolute full attention (shiny! tasty!).
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Old 05-29-2014, 10:00 AM   #19  
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But don't you think that some people just have larger natural appetites?

F.
Maybe, who knows? "appetite" is sooooo subjective. There's no way to measure that. I used to have a much bigger and more intrusive appetite because over many years of binging I had taught myself to get hungry every time I felt nervous/anxious, discomfort. I was like a bottomless pit. I blamed it on the food, I blamed it on liking food more than other people did, I blamed it on the government, I blamed it on sugar, I found lots of things to blame other than being accountable for my own lack of understanding of my body's needs. Our bodies are like plants, they have different needs - it might be more light, more water, less light, and let's face it, some people even talk to their plants and swear up and down that it makes a difference. I used to solve every problem with food, just like I've killed all my plants with too much water. An "appetite" is not quantifiable, it's just a need to eat. Yes, I used to have a much much much bigger appetite. But as I've learned to nurture myself in appropriate ways, my body has let go of the insatiable need for food.
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Old 05-29-2014, 10:10 AM   #20  
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Ah, the perpetual IE discussion...interesting how it crops up on virtually every diet thread. It reminds me of the religion folks who ring my doorbell. As if they need to convert others to validate their own choice.
It didn't crop up, it's the actual discussion, or so called "the sane people who don't need to eat as much food" that the OP refers to. Those sane people just happen to eat intuitively, they're not just freaks of nature who don't like food - there is a real reason and explanation for why people don't over eat, some people never lose that sense of intuition that humans are born with, but it can be developed and relearned because it's there - hunger is a primal instict, and responding to it is primal as well.

I don't need to convert you or anyone, I wouldn't expect anyone here to try IE if their only goal is to lose weight. But if someone asks for help with trying to rid themselves of obsessive resentful thoughts of food, or is looking for some kind of sanity around food or has questions about hunger etc, then those are issues that are dealt with really well with IE. Why is my way of eating any less valid than someone elses?
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Old 05-29-2014, 10:25 AM   #21  
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First no one is saying you are lazy. Where do you get that? You are obviously working the way of eating to work for you. But intuitive eating says this



What I am telling you is that I did eat only when my body gave me hunger clues. I never pigged out. I never binged. I ate when I was hungry and didn't get full signals until I had eaten a huge quantity of foods. Believe me, I tried to only eat when I felt hungry.... But the types of foods I was eating MADE me feel hungry much more often and I don't think I have a normal "I'm full" cue. My husband follows intuitive eating. He only eats when he feels hungry. That could be at midnight, but if he is hungry, he'll eat and he only eats enough to feel satisfied and I always feel baffled how he can feel satisfied with the amount he eats.

See, I think you are the one who doesn't get it, SOME OF US don't feel the hunger feelings normally or the full signals normally. I wish I did, I reallllllly do. My mom said she saw it in me as a kid, I just had this insatiable appetite and she worried I would get overweight, even though as a kid I was not overweight at all.

My way to combat it is to eat the most saturating foods I can to try to feed the hunger to the best I can, eating starchy carbs just leads me to feeling famished and is disaster for me. That obviously isn't true for you and I understand that and appreciate that. But when I say I cannot eat for hunger, I truly mean it.
What makes you think I don't get it? I've been dealing with that my whole life. I've known for my entire life that I don't understand my body's hunger signals. That is my diagnosed eating disorder, on paper. I am medically diagnosed - it is a medical fact that my hunger/fullness mechanism was broken, shut down, with a dusty tarp over it. Ok so now I've taken the tarp off and learned that the machine still turns on - I've got lots of tweaking still to do but I'm human, therefore was born with the ability to feed and understand my hunger. I know you don't care what I say but I think that you too were born with that ability, everyone is and we can learn to foster it or we can learn to trick it with, but I have no doubts at all that that it's not broken beyond repair - I can't imagine anyone who is more broken than I was.

You say that "Intuitive eating is designed to be a "common sense, hunger-based approach to eating," where participants are encouraged to eat when and only when their body tells them it is hungry." Not sure where you got this definition from but it's an insufficient definition and not at all indicative of the process that goes into it. It's a simplistic statement that gives no indication of the benefits of understanding hunger. It's more or less also a final result, not the process.

If you gained a 100lbs it's not because of intuitive eating. All of us gained weight because we ate more than our body needed.
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Old 05-29-2014, 10:38 AM   #22  
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You say that "Intuitive eating is designed to be a "common sense, hunger-based approach to eating," where participants are encouraged to eat when and only when their body tells them it is hungry." Not sure where you got this definition from but it's an insufficient definition and not at all indicative of the process that goes into it. It's a simplistic statement that gives no indication of the benefits of understanding hunger. It's more or less also a final result, not the process.
Got it from wikipedia's entry on Intuitive eating.

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If you gained a 100lbs it's not because of intuitive eating. All of us gained weight because we ate more than our body needed.
And you assume that your body really knows what it needs and doesn't? I don't believe that. The body is designed to survive hardships. So, it also is designed to prepare for such hardships. If anything, my body is doing a BETTER job at trying to survive because it doesn't say it's "too full" too quickly. So, if there was a famine, I would be more likely to survive because I have more fat stores and my body is really, really good at storing fat.

It absolutely DOES NOT KNOW that we live in times of plenty and that there is about zero chance there will be lean times/famine. There has been millions of years of evolution to tell my genes/DNA otherwise.

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Old 05-29-2014, 10:43 AM   #23  
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you too were born with that ability, everyone is and we can learn to foster it or we can learn to trick it with.
I agree to some extent. Most babies resolutely turn away from the nipple or bottle when they've had enough, and actively resist overfeeding. That said, my mother told me I had a huge appetite right from birth. Her doctor told her how much formula she should be giving me, but she found that if she didn't give me TWICE AS MUCH as instructed I would howl incessantly. Whether that means I had a naturally large appetite or weak fullness signals or anything else, I was naturally inclined to eat more than most.

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Old 05-29-2014, 11:14 AM   #24  
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Got it from wikipedia's entry on Intuitive eating. that makes sense then.

And you assume that your body really knows what it needs and doesn't? I don't believe that.
Yes, I assume that. I'm learning a lot about my body, I've learned that it's much smarter than my mind is. I've learned than by honoring it and respecting its needs my body has learned to trust me again, and the messages it sends me now are very clear and precise. I've learned that my body doesn't actually want a lot of the foods I thought it wanted before. I've learned how to truly enjoy my food, and that real pleasure can be experienced from food. You have to do what works for you and if what you're doing is working then work it.

All I'm trying to say is that your husband behavior is not unexplainable. There is a lot of logic in it, and I think something that we're all capable of. He's not a freak of nature, he doesn't like food less than you do, and he's not an anomaly. There's no voodoo behind it. He just understands his needs more than a dieter does - I'm willing to bet he'd never consider a diet, right? Because someone who is in tune with what their body needs would never subscribe to having someone else tell them when/what/how much to eat.

When the machine is broken, what does it matter what type of fuel you put in it? It's broken. I'm fixing the machine and testing out different fuels - of COURSE some fuels are better than others but once the machine is fixed it becomes easier to pick out the good fuels.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:24 AM   #25  
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Yes, I assume that. I'm learning a lot about my body, I've learned that it's much smarter than my mind is. I've learned than by honoring it and respecting its needs my body has learned to trust me again, and the messages it sends me now are very clear and precise. I've learned that my body doesn't actually want a lot of the foods I thought it wanted before. I've learned how to truly enjoy my food, and that real pleasure can be experienced from food. You have to do what works for you and if what you're doing is working then work it.

All I'm trying to say is that your husband behavior is not unexplainable. There is a lot of logic in it, and I think something that we're all capable of. He's not a freak of nature, he doesn't like food less than you do, and he's not an anomaly. There's no voodoo behind it. He just understands his needs more than a dieter does - I'm willing to bet he'd never consider a diet, right? Because someone who is in tune with what their body needs would never subscribe to having someone else tell them when/what/how much to eat.

When the machine is broken, what does it matter what type of fuel you put in it? It's broken. I'm fixing the machine and testing out different fuels - of COURSE some fuels are better than others but once the machine is fixed it becomes easier to pick out the good fuels.
OK.... I never said he was a freak of nature... just that I don't understand it because it's so unlike me - how I've EVER been. As a kid his grandmother had to hand feed him until he was like 8. Why? because he would forget to eat. He had no time for it. When his mom would ask him what he ate for lunch, he would have no clue and would say, "ask grandma". That is not how I EVER was. So... was I 'broken" as a child? Or was he? I knew what I eat and I liked to eat. I was just active enough as a kid to keep the weight from piling on.

Would he diet? No... why would he when he doesn't need to? Does he understand that I'm different from him and I need to eat differently from him? Absolutely. He knows that we are different and that how we deal with many things in life - not just food, is different. He fully supports my low carb, high fat/moderate protein diet as he sees I'm happier, healthier and it's easier for me to be moderate in my eating. And I don't force my way of eating on him (or anyone else in the family) because they are different.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:28 AM   #26  
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Unfortunately both my fiance and I eat irresponsibly. He's still healthier, weight-wise, but I feel like I'm eating more veggies by far. He'll have coffee at work, eat a doughnut or something, drink soda. I'm sipping water and eating carrots... And lately, I've been the one cutting him off saying it's too late to eat or you aren't even hungry, etc.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:34 AM   #27  
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I agree to some extent. Most babies resolutely turn away from the nipple or bottle when they've had enough, and actively resist overfeeding. That said, my mother told me I had a huge appetite right from birth. Her doctor told her how much formula she should be giving me, but she found that if she didn't give me TWICE AS MUCH as instructed I would howl incessantly. Whether that means I had a naturally large appetite or weak fullness signals or anything else, I was naturally inclined to eat more than most.

F.
That's a very interesting point but my take on this is as a breastfeeding mommy who nursed my son for 1.5yrs. I'm one of those hippie dippie breastfeeding, cosleeping, babywearing, attachment parenting mommies. From the get-go I was fighting with doctors - pediatricians and my own gyno who discouraged me from breastfeeding. They would tell me how much easier it is to feed formula, how much less I would have to feed, how my kid would sleep through the night if I formula fed. It all went very against my insticts and I'll be honest and tell you that it was driven by my eating disorder. I had read that kids who are formula fed have a greater risk of obesity and eating disorders later in life and since I was formula fed and I was obese and had an ED I wanted to do whatever I could to offset my child's chances of that. I'm not saying that I have ED and am obese because my mom formula fed me but hey, you know if there's a possible link then why not try to avoid that? (my brother was breastfed btw, totally intuitive eater, thin and confident)

A baby who is breastfed eats and behaves much differently than a baby who is formula fed. Sure, it would have been nice to do a feeding every 3-4hrs. But my son ate around the clock, sometimes feeding up to 4 times an hour. All night long even, I think the longest we went without feeding in the first 3 months was maybe 2hrs, day or night. It calmed down a bit after that but I continued to feed "on demand" until he weaned himself.

How could your doctor possibly know how much you needed to eat? Some people need to eat more, some people need to eat less. I can't speculate on what he meant but eating is not a prescription - your mom did the right thing and gave you more. if she hadn't that would've been like putting you on a diet. How many moms ignore their baby's cry and give them what the doctor tells them to? I have a serious distrust of doctors because of how much they encouraged formula and discouraged me from breast feeding. One even told me that my milk isn't good enough nutrition. Very bizarre archaic stuff.

Anyway, gosh I'm rambling, one of the IE books I read has referred to the initial stages of IE as demand-feeding, feeding ourselves on demand the same way we feed babies on demand. There are corrolations made between babies and how they get their needs met by crying out for food and learning to trust and that it's a similar process for us to relearn how to meet our own needs. I kind of buy into it after seeing some of my friends who formula feed - the baby cries and they say "I'm not going to feed her again until it's time for the next prescribed feeding" - what anguish it must be for a baby who's hungry now and doesn't understand that it's it's only 3:15pm.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:38 AM   #28  
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The other day I asked my hubby how much he would eat if a) he wouldn't gain weight no matter what and b) his food intake would have no ill effects on his health. His answer? "About the same as I eat now." That's probably around 2,400 calories. (He's 61 years old, 6'2", and weighs 180 pounds. His weight never fluctuates by more than 5 pounds.) He went on to tell me that food has never been one of his passions -- not that this was news to me.

If someone were to ask me the same question, my answer would be 5,000 calories, if not more. It's like we're different species...

Anyone else have a spouse with a maddeningly healthy relationship with food?

F.
Yes. In a lot of ways, I feel fortunate. I feel that my struggles would be intensified if my partner struggled with food. Yet, after many years together, I just cannot seem to model DP's style of eating. I'm working on it.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:42 AM   #29  
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That's a very interesting point but my take on this is as a breastfeeding mommy who nursed my son for 1.5yrs. I'm one of those hippie dippie breastfeeding, cosleeping, babywearing, attachment parenting mommies. From the get-go I was fighting with doctors - pediatricians and my own gyno who discouraged me from breastfeeding. They would tell me how much easier it is to feed formula, how much less I would have to feed, how my kid would sleep through the night if I formula fed. It all went very against my insticts and I'll be honest and tell you that it was driven by my eating disorder. I had read that kids who are formula fed have a greater risk of obesity and eating disorders later in life and since I was formula fed and I was obese and had an ED I wanted to do whatever I could to offset my child's chances of that. I'm not saying that I have ED and am obese because my mom formula fed me but hey, you know if there's a possible link then why not try to avoid that? (my brother was breastfed btw, totally intuitive eater, thin and confident)

A baby who is breastfed eats and behaves much differently than a baby who is formula fed. Sure, it would have been nice to do a feeding every 3-4hrs. But my son ate around the clock, sometimes feeding up to 4 times an hour. All night long even, I think the longest we went without feeding in the first 3 months was maybe 2hrs, day or night. It calmed down a bit after that but I continued to feed "on demand" until he weaned himself.

How could your doctor possibly know how much you needed to eat? Some people need to eat more, some people need to eat less. I can't speculate on what he meant but eating is not a prescription - your mom did the right thing and gave you more. if she hadn't that would've been like putting you on a diet. How many moms ignore their baby's cry and give them what the doctor tells them to?
This is totally a tangent, but when my husband was born in Croatia, most women still breastfed there (unlike in the US) and the "wisdom" at the time was to feed the baby every 3 hours and only on one side and if they got hungry between nursings, to give them water in a bottle. SERIOUSLY. So... that is what my MIL did.

She was AGHAST when I did as you described -feeding on demand (and I too was a co-sleeping, baby wearing, breast feeding, don't cry it out mom). And both my babies nursed ALL THE TIME too. Water in a bottle? How could that ever make sense? "Medical advice"... huh
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:44 AM   #30  
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some people never lose that sense of intuition that humans are born with, but it can be developed and relearned because it's there - hunger is a primal instict, and responding to it is primal as well.
I have beaten the dead horse on the matter of IE being proselytized lately...so I'll skip that.

However this misinformation needs addressing. WannaB, you need to do a little reading on human biology or maybe evolution. It is not within our "natural" instinct to eat only when hungry then stop when comfortably satisfied. That's one of the reasons it is my opinion the IE is misleading.

We have been designed through evolution to eat as often and as much as we can when food is available, because for much of our human history, starvation was a real threat to our existence. There are reasons with why so much enjoy sweet and fatty tastes. These foods (sweet being fruit in our human history) provided excellent sources of energy and fat (think animal fat) was loaded with valuable calories. Understand that these calories, like from saturated fat really fill us up and keep us full longer AND there was a time when our caloric expenditure to find and hunt this food needed to be accounted for.

If you want to talk primal, then primal is we are made to eat, eat often and eat a lot. Our body's design has not caught up with a world of highly processed foods loaded with junk calories that don't give us the satiety of the diet we evolved on, or a world were all we have to do is drive to the store and buy our next meal. Yes, some people do not have the drive to eat as much, and those people would have died out throughout our earlier evolution. But in today's world, they will actually prosper because now they are not going to be the ones that are obese and having many illness as a result of.

Please, do not fool yourself into thinking IE is primal or natural.
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