[flea]

I used to be a binge-purger, but I'm slowly (and with great difficulty) trying to get out of the habit. I want to lose just 15 lbs, but by trying to "eat normally" and sensibly, all I'm doing is GAINING now. While I know I shouldn't step on the scale every day, it's a habit I feel that, if I don't, my weight will get out of control. Yesterday I was unfortunately up to 151 (after a bad day of purging it down from 152.8. Yesterday I decided, again, that that was my last day purging, so I ate, what I felt, was sensibly:

1 ikea vegetarian spinach wrap (approx 350 calories)
side of steamed veggies (approx... 60?)
water water water
avacado roll - 120
small vegan caesar salad maybe another 120?
half a slice of whole wheat vegan pizza (No cheese, no soy, no sauce. Spinach, zuchinni, mushrooms, tomato) (maybe 50 cals?)
1 lite beer with dinner: 95 cals

= 795

Excercise:

Walking around Ikea for hours, dragging and lifting heavy furniture, stair climbing home to the 15th floor (without furniture, yay we got delivery!), 50 squats, 20 sit ups

this morning:
155.2 lbs.

I feel like I can't even eat minimally and not gain significant weight. 4 lbs in one day, of eating what I thought was relatively reasonable? I don't want to purge anymore, but how to I lose weight without it? ): How did losing 15lbs go to losing 20lbs overnight?

[Elena EQ]

Honeypie. You did not gain weight overnight, it will not come off overnight! Eat healthy for a month, exercise 5-6 days a week for a month (and yea, walking is not a cardio, try light jogging instead). And then look in the mirror! Scale weight doesn't mean anything! It could be waterweight, muscle weight, any weight for that matter, its meaningless!

[freelancemomma]

Greetings from a fellow Torontonian. Gorgeous picture, by the way -- very glamorous! I suggest you try eating 1,500 calories every day for a month. Do this consistently, then weigh yourself and see where you land.

F.

[Psychic]

With the low amount of valories you're consuming, your body is going to hold on to fat as much as possible. Bump your calorie consumption up to at least 1200, and I promise you'll see results. Eat at least 1200 a day for a week and drink water. Weight yourself at the end of the week and you'll see results.

[GlamourGirl827]

oh my, you are giving me flash backs of my 20s! I did not purge, but not for lack of trying, but I just HATE vomiting...so I stuck with excessive exercise and occasionally laxatives. not good. I also had a binge / starve cycle.

I'm an RN now and I am grateful for learning what I was doing to my body, and even armed with that knowledge, I STILL struggle with not falling into old habits, because its a disease or mentally disorder, or whatever you want to call it, but it is very hard to control.

On that note.

Just under 800 cals a day is not enough, but I've been there. I actually had a time in my early 20s where I did no more that 400 cals a day for a very long peroid of time a lot with excessive excerise. I'm lucky I didnt go int ocardiac arrest really.

Also daily weighing, something I am still unable to shake, is not go IF you are going to counter act a high weight with evem more restricted eating / purging/ excessive exercise. So people on here weigh daily and they can do that then despite an unexplained rise in the scale, still stick with a healthy eating plan. I cannot do that. When I see a rise, even if I know its not a weight gain of fat It prompts me to under eat the next day. Even around TOM I knew I would see a weight gain from fluid retention that always went away when TOM was over and yet I still let that increased number bother me and effect how I ate that day (I ate less, and too little)

I can tell you medically that is take some time to lose fat, and a one day weight gain does not mean you gained fat. It can be a fluid retention or even missing a day of pooping! Under eating, which 800 cals is under eating, can mess with you body too. I'm not kidding, when you first go back to eating normally, you will get a small gain too. Your body goes into starvation mode and it does what it has to inorder to hold on to what little fuel it getting.

I can tell you, the thing to do, is eat at least 1200 cals a day, and I know that will feel like a TON of food. Its werid because when I was retricting, 1200 cals was like a buffet, but then days or weeks later I would binge and probably consume 2-3x that...and feel sick and gross. But I get when you are in the "eat right" mid set, making your set eat even 1200 cals feels like its going to make you fat, but it won't.

Also exercise. Walking, jogging, biking. Shoot for maybe 3-4x a week for 30mins to 1 hour each session.

If you can not weight daily that would be great! And weigh weekly. If you must weigh daily you cannot let a change in the numbers effect your daily eating.

The scale will go up at first, just from the extra food in you digestive track and other issues that might be going on from having a history of binge / purge, but I promise it will eventually get back to normal and you will start to see a weight loss.

Also eating too little will set you up for a binge. I never got that for years, but its true. You bodies need to eat over powers you will power to under eat and you binge especially because you are not getting enough. I can tell you for the few times in my late 20s that I stop undereating and just ate as I pleased (no cal counting) the binging stopped, I did out on a weight, but I was free from binging.

If you are still binging at 1200 cals, maybe take it up to 1300. Adjust the numbers until you feel that the binges aren't over whelming, but you are still seeing a loss over the course of the weeks, not in the daily weight.

This is a very very hard cycle to break. I took me years to stop the extreme bahavoirs that were a physical danger. Now I am left with some of the annoying obsessive habits (like when I calorie count I count down to the half calorie, I get a lot fo guilt when I eat certain food, or I make some food off limits. (Although not now, when I'm pregnant all that goes out hte window, not sure why but its 9 months of mental freedom!!) But it'll be back after I have the baby. It always comes back.

It might be worth taking to a coucilor too. I did a few years back, but most of my relearning to eat normally was just daily work on my part, and really it will probably be something I deal with the rest of my life.

Good luck with everything. It good to see you want to change what you know are bad habits. That is a step in the right direction.

[Missy Krissy]

I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this!

795 calories really isn't a "reasonable" amount. It isn't uncommon for binge/purgers to be very restrictive (like 795 calories restrictive), and then end up binge-ing because such a low caloric intake is not sustainable.

I second freelance. Up your intake a considerable amount. Stick with it. See what happens.

[nightwasp]

I can't believe no one has said this yet. "Binge-purging" is a serious medical disorder and you need to go see a professional about it. This isn't an anorexia-bulimia forum, this is a place to discuss healthy weight loss. You are struggling with a serious condition and we are not the appropriate people from whom to seek advice.

You say you "used to" binge and purge but you say just did it again yesterday. Seek HELP. I can't stress this enough. I've lost a family member to this tortured process. Please don't continue to fail on your own when you can succeed by opening up about it. This isn't the time for you to be trying to lose 15 more pounds, it's time to wrap your head around reasonable nutritional habits. See your doctor. If you're not comfortable with your doctor, find another one. If you don't have insurance, open up to a trusted family member, friend, or role model who can point you in the right direction. But it's not here, not right now.

[SweetScrumptious]

Agree with nightwasp... who could put it into better words than I could

[PatLib]

Let's calm down a bit.

Nightwasp, I understand that your knee jerk reaction is tell someone to go get help. But it really isn't as easy as that, person has to be ready and understand what they are doing to themselves. The weird thing about eating disorders is that a lot of the time you don't think you're "like that" or "it's only once awhile" mentality or "you'll stop once you reach goal weight." It all feels very rational when you are in it.

@Flea You really need to eat more just because, yes you will lose weight. But a lot of different things are going to happen if you continue on this path.

First, if even try to eat a "normal" meals later you will probably gain because your body is desperate for that weight so even if you exercise it will hold onto it and you will gain.

Second, there is the truly horrifying issue of people noticing and you having to explain yourself for eating so little and worse being analyzed when you are not ready. I urge you to get help but going when you are not ready is truly the worse thing in the world.

Third, you can really make yourself sick and cause yourself heart and muscle damage and making it even more difficult for exercise and forcing you consume even less calories to maintain that weight. It truly is a vicious cycle.

I would go to 1500 calories and more likely limit yourself to 30 min jogs and probably do a little lifting and toning exercises. Research is finding that once you get closer to your goal weight, lifting and toning exercising is better for weight loss.

Make a week long meal and go speak to a trainer about good exercises to do. And when you are ready go see a therapist. It really helps to speak to an outsider about these things! Good Luck!

[Vortex_VVV]

Check out the sticky: http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/weig...er-weight.html

All of us who have any kind of eating problem need to learn, among other things, to recognize when our reactions aren't rational. Many of us react poorly to normal fluctuations in weight. The only way I was able to get over that, personally, was desensitizing by weighing daily, staying the course, and realizing that a pound or two as a daily fluctuation means nothing.

Try to remember, when you purge to try to combat a normal weight fluctuation that might be due to a little salt or normal female hormonal changes, you are punishing your body for doing its normal job.

Please don't. You deserve better.

Check out the sticky: http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/weig...er-weight.html

[flea]

I truly appreciate everyone's feedback. The fact that so many of you took the time to respond is humbling.

Elena, Freelancemama (thank you, by the way. you are too kind and that really made me smile!), lovely MissyKrissy, and Psychic: Thank you kindly. I suppose somewhere in the back of my mind I know and agree with you, but it's so very difficult to see it like that when I'm actually eating. I've been eating like this (what I thought was relatively normal) forever so it's difficult to see where I can add extra food. I feel like I have a lot of time constraints, as well, and my schedule often doesn't allow me to have true meals. I bartend right now, so I regularly go from 330pm - 230 am with no food, and then I hate going to bed with a full stomach (it gives me nightmares )

Glamourgirl, I'm so very happy you responded. Having someone highly knowledgeable relate to this is kind of a relieving feeling. You hit the nail on the head - anymore would feel like so much excess. It feels, again, like binging, which gets my head turning, that leads to my stomach turning, etc etc etc. Also, I feel like I'll gain ten pounds before I see any benefits, and those ten might be even harder to pull off. You're right, however. I'll make an effort to up my intake. Does 1200 cal account for 1 hour of cardio as well, or does it have to be 1200 net?

Nightwasp, I understand your frustration and your deeply emotional tie to this habit. I did not intend to offend you. I realize this isn't an anna-mia forum, and I purposely chose NOT to join them because I want to learn from healthy people, not from people who have developed the same struggles I have. I know our mindset is different, and I know it is often very sick. I'm sorry you don't feel like this is the place to discuss this, but I disagree; I don't believe the blind leading the blind can lead to anything but fumbling around in the dark. I say "used to" instead of "am", regardless of how often I slip up or make mistakes because I want to distance myself from the idea. I know of women who pride themselves in their ability to restrict, or to binge "properly" and I feel that if I say I "am" a binge-purger, or a bulimic, regardless if the word "recovery" is in front of it, I'm owning it as a part of my current self. I understand it isn't good for me - that's why I decided to sign up here in the first place. I see effects it's having on by body, that's why I decided to be open and honest with people that can't be hurt by it, who I'm relatively anonymous to, and who I assumed wouldn't judge me as simply mentally ill and send me off. I am trying VERY hard to make myself well. While I may need help from a PhD in a long run, I want to see if I can be comfortable with me on my own.


PatLib is dead right on a lot of things I feel and think and do, and I appreciate your support for it. For a long time I thought it was no big concern, and for a long time because it was only "a few times a week" it was okay. It DOES feel rational and it does feel okay and I KNOW that's wrong, because I can see what it's doing. When I eat and I feel full it feels like my stomach is twisting into knots, all I can think of is calories and fat and My face immediately feels bigger and my stomach feels puffy. Yes, I know that's not okay, and not rational, but I am not prepared to explain this to my mother, or in depth to my partner, and I'm very fearful a therapist might make that a part of of my treatment. again, I would rather find a sensible way of living healthily on my own, and hopefully with a little guidance from well-read people on this forum who aren't quick to just reject me in favour of a counsellor. If a person registered here and posted "I can't stop eating cream filled donuts, I'm so addicted, I eat 12 a day because I have no self esteem, does anyone have any advice how to stop this?" regardless that it is equally damaging to someone's long-term health, I doubt very highly they would detour them to a therapist immediately. I imagine this forum would instead recommend tasty low-cal low-fat foods instead, and suggest different means of exercising. Again, I appreciate your hurt, but that must mean that you have a very intimate view of what that person was also going through.

Thank you Vortex, it's so hard though, isn't it? Seeing two lbs up feels like an intense failure. I may try my best to stay iff the scale for a while, as Glamourgirl and others strongly recommended. It just feels like I'll allow my weight to get out of hand if I don't have a firm number in my mind.

[PatLib]

Originally Posted by flea

PatLib is dead right on a lot of things I feel and think and do, and I appreciate your support for it. For a long time I thought it was no big concern, and for a long time because it was only "a few times a week" it was okay. It DOES feel rational and it does feel okay and I KNOW that's wrong, because I can see what it's doing. When I eat and I feel full it feels like my stomach is twisting into knots, all I can think of is calories and fat and My face immediately feels bigger and my stomach feels puffy. Yes, I know that's not okay, and not rational, but I am not prepared to explain this to my mother, or in depth to my partner, and I'm very fearful a therapist might make that a part of of my treatment. again, I would rather find a sensible way of living healthily on my own, and hopefully with a little guidance from well-read people on this forum who aren't quick to just reject me in favour of a counsellor. If a person registered here and posted "I can't stop eating cream filled donuts, I'm so addicted, I eat 12 a day because I have no self esteem, does anyone have any advice how to stop this?" regardless that it is equally damaging to someone's long-term health, I doubt very highly they would detour them to a therapist immediately. I imagine this forum would instead recommend tasty low-cal low-fat foods instead, and suggest different means of exercising. Again, I appreciate your hurt, but that must mean that you have a very intimate view of what that person was also going through.

I had a slight problem when I was younger and I personally never saw a therapist. Which is why I always suggest waiting until you are in right frame of mind to even consider a therapist because maybe you might not need to.

I personally come from a point of that most bad eating habits come from a emotional issues. Even if that means you are eating very little to very much. I know that is controversial opinion but to me a person who cannot stop themselves from eating 12 donuts needs a therapist just as much as a person who doesn't eat anything at all or purges.

It all comes from the same part inside of us and you're right. It is unfair that people push you to see a therapist and not the over eaters. But I personally suggested it to you because this seems to be something that has been going on for a long time and that part concerns me because the longer you have done something the harder to break the habit.

P.S. Actually I would say that my overeating was much worse for me than when I under ate. Again controversial but because overeating is so common people don't want to admit they have a problem.

[Elena EQ]

I was doing that too. You look in the mirror, you don't see results fast enough and you start skipping meals and eat a handful of nuts for lunch. Lucky me, my boyfriend called it out and laughed at me pretty hard "yogurt and a straweberry".

I can tell you right away what works better. You can either eat 500cal a day: your body goes into starvation mode, metabolism slows down. Or you eat a normal diet of 2,000 cal and then go on a long run of 12 miles which burns about 1,500 cal you are still netting 500 cal. But you feel full, happy, strong and your metabolism is pumping. Now, you can't run 12 miles everyday, but you can swim the next day and whatnot, you get the point. Think about that, have you ever seen a heavy marathon runner? They are all pretty skinny for a reason

[GlamourGirl827]

Originally Posted by flea

Glamourgirl, I'm so very happy you responded. Having someone highly knowledgeable relate to this is kind of a relieving feeling. You hit the nail on the head - anymore would feel like so much excess. It feels, again, like binging, which gets my head turning, that leads to my stomach turning, etc etc etc. Also, I feel like I'll gain ten pounds before I see any benefits, and those ten might be even harder to pull off. You're right, however. I'll make an effort to up my intake. Does 1200 cal account for 1 hour of cardio as well, or does it have to be 1200 net?

I'm glad I could help you with my post. Its a long road to being in recovery, and that's what I consider it. Its s disorder and in some ways an addiction, and all the knowledge in the world still doesn't make it easier. I was addicted to the dropping number on the scale every morning, the *feeling* of feeling thin. That's why, I agree, if you can stay off the scale, do it. If you find that hard to do, ask someone to hide it for you. I have. Someone that will not give it up. If you live alone, take it to a family or friends house, lock it in a locker at work, anything. Part of recovery is not weighting everyday, because that number holds so much power.

If you do, say do an hour of exercise, on top of you daily cals, eat something before your workout. Like a banana or yogurt, something that's at least 100 cals, but preferably like 200-300. 1200 cals a day is absolute low that is recommended, so you can eat back you cals for your workout and still see a weight loss. Do you have an iPhone? I also had an app for about a year that tracted my eating and behavoirs, but its not for weight loss, its specifically for eating disorders. It was very helpful. I forget what its called but if you have iphone and are intersted let me know and I can look it up.

When you first start eating how you are supposed to, you will likely see a small gain. It won't be fat. I know that doesn't make it easier, that why you need to ditch the scale in anyway possible. When you eat very little amounts, *one* of the things that happens it your intestines are not as full of waste, gross but true. Just putting that extra food in will increase your waste weight. Also, cycling of binging/ purging may have constipated you, so it might be a while before it comes out. I promise you, that at 1200 cals a day even without working out, just going about your day, you will not gain fat. You will see your weight go up and down, but ultimately it will trend downward, but it will take a little time at first.

Also, don't let anyone tell you that you can't post here because if you eating disorder. Especially people that haven't even been here that long! THey have no business telling members who can and cannot post. I have been on this baord for 5 years (wow!) and I spent the firt couple years posting in the Chicks Under Control board because of my binging, which was trigger by my episodes of starving and excessive exercise. I posted here about my starve/binge cycling, and even about the laxative use, because I need to tell someone because I needed to stop and this was part of my "therapy". I agree about NOT joining a pro mia-ann site (which I have done btw) because it just sucks you back into those habits. Definitely stay here, and post. I have found through my posting, that many members on here have a history of eating disorders, and they have been able to recover and keep their most self destructive habits in check.

If and when you are ready to talk with a councilor, you will know it time. But you can until then, work on your recovery here too. Please feels free to PM me if you want.

I will tell you one more thing I learned. I spent so many years trying to control the binge, but I didn;t want to heal the other half of the cycle. I only wanted to stop binging. But its a package deal. To stop the binge, you have to work on eating a healthy amount of calories daily. In the beginning I still wanted to eat my 800-1000 cals a day and not binge, but that's not an option, trust me. Good luck and keep at it. You can stop this and live a healthy life, and it feels so good to be mostly free from it. (I say mostly because I still am working on it, but its a world of a difference from where I was 10 years ago)

[sacha]

flea,

People with ED issues aren't unwelcome here, in fact there is even a specialized section for people who struggle (and it is recovery-based, unlike other internet sites).

http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/chicks-control-64/