sizes have changed so much. I remember in about '84 a friend worked in a clothing store and holding up the first 1 we had ever seen. It didn't look big enough to fit a barbie. Those days being really skinny meant fitting into a size 6. It was scary to think anyone might actually be smaller than that.
I've known about the plus size models for a while. They take small models and pad them because they want the slim calves and jaw line.
Size 12 or 6, doesn't really matter I guess- she was a CURVY woman and looked beautiful in her curves. None of this nonsense, sharp bones poking thru your clothes crap. Blech!
Size 12 or 6, doesn't really matter I guess- she was a CURVY woman and looked beautiful in her curves. None of this nonsense, sharp bones poking thru your clothes crap. Blech!
It's unfair to insult other body types though, I was underweight when I was younger (under 20) and it always hurt me when people made fun of that. You can be proud of your size/curves/whatever without demeaning others.
Size 12 or 6, doesn't really matter I guess- she was a CURVY woman and looked beautiful in her curves. None of this nonsense, sharp bones poking thru your clothes crap. Blech!
Wow really?
Nobody should shame people's bodies--regardless of what end of the spectrum they fall on
It's unfair to insult other body types though, I was underweight when I was younger (under 20) and it always hurt me when people made fun of that. You can be proud of your size/curves/whatever without demeaning others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sontaikle
Nobody should shame people's bodies--regardless of what end of the spectrum they fall on
Thank you, ladies. I wanted to say something to this effect but nothing I wrote came out quite as tactful.
I'm a little curious why anyone would be upset about this article? Or what the modeling industry says about sizing?
Unless you're a model, does it affect you in any way? Lol, it sure doesn't to me!
I'm a size 2 in some stores, a 4 in others...a size small in one store, and xxs in another (wtf?). But at the end of the day, a size on the tag is one little thing compared to the biggie to me: what do I look like naked? Am I seeing muscle tone? Am I losing fat?
I'm even starting to let go of the numbers on the scale... I will probably always weigh daily, but I know that I can change my body at this point with body recomposition without seeing big number changes on the scale.
There are a lot of women who are 5'0 and 110lbs who probably look a heck of a lot better than I do naked
And I could care less what any industry would have to say about my size.
ESPECIALLY the modeling industry, lol !!
According to the top modeling agencies in the world (Ford, Wihelmina, Elite, Click, Next, et al), plus size models are booked at sizes 8 through 16/18. It's a fact when you're dealing with the modeling world.
Plus size clothing vendors, designers, etc. request models starting at a size 8, and that is what agencies book as plus size. The most requested size is 14, but yep, size 8s are too big for straight size modeling gigs for the most part.
You know, I am going to be honest here. Yes, this is a bad example for children, both little boys and girls. Girls, it is so obvious - but boys too. After all, male eating disorders exist, not to mention the "image" of a woman that they look to.
On the other hand - I think we should admit that obesity is also a horrible example and the rising statistics of childhood obesity is a direct reflection as well.
Yeah, but the difference is that no one's promoting obesity or holding it up as an example of the ideal woman/man.
Nobody should shame people's bodies--regardless of what end of the spectrum they fall on
No, but it is okay to take issue with their methods. It would be one thing if models were naturally thin. But, they're not. They go to vastly unhealthy extremes to maintain very low weights, then promote themselves as if their efforts are effortless, so everyone should be their size. It's not the teeny sizes of the models that bug me; it's the lie that the industry perpetuates; it's the taking of extremely impressionable, healthy young women/girls and turning them into shells, husks of their former selves. Skinny women are beautiful. But, models...models WERE beautiful before they entered the industry and they will be beautiful after they leave. But, IMO, no one in that industry is actually beautiful.
No, but it is okay to take issue with their methods. It would be one thing if models were naturally thin. But, they're not. They go to vastly unhealthy extremes to maintain very low weights, then promote themselves as if their efforts are effortless, so everyone should be their size. It's not the teeny sizes of the models that bug me; it's the lie that the industry perpetuates; it's the taking of extremely impressionable, healthy young women/girls and turning them into shells, husks of their former selves. Skinny women are beautiful. But, models...models WERE beautiful before they entered the industry and they will be beautiful after they leave. But, IMO, no one in that industry is actually beautiful.
That doesn't give anyone the right to say "gross! bones!"
The modeling industry is another issue entirely, but I think it's wrong to go after skinny women in general. There are many naturally skinny women who are just small. I firmly believe that while there are people who can be safely above the "Normal" BMI range that there are people who can be safely below it as well.
I think going after the modeling industry is fine, but we have to be careful how it's done. You can't say "ew, disgusting, you're bony." because there are people out there who are just naturally that way! How do you think they feel when they see that?
I have some friends who fall into that "underweight" range and they don't look as if they're starving and they're perfectly and utterly healthy. They're just built really small. Should we shame them because they're underweight? No, nobody should be shamed because of their body.
It's one of the reasons why I cringe when I hear people describe size 0 as anorexic size or something. If you're short or just small framed, size 0 might be a perfectly acceptable size to get into.
Just as it's wrong to go to an overweight person and yell at them to lose weight, it is wrong to go to a skinny person and tell them to gain.
If they have a health issue that is another matter entirely, but for the most part we should all just accept bodies for their differences and quirks.
Realistically, an "8" IS a plus-size....in the modeling world. Its like how I'm pretty smart---within my peer group. Put me with a bunch of genius people, suddenly I'd be the dumb one.
Now, do I think that a size 8 should be the Vogue model example of the general "plus-size"? Absolutely not. But realistically, as someone who works with teenagers all day, every day, I think a lot more media sources are affecting youth (and therefore the growing generations of women) than model and magazines.
Some random thoughts on this, many of which have already been expressed here...
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Originally Posted by OhMyDogs
-Twenty years ago the average fashion model weighed 8% less than the average woman. Today, she weighs 23% less.
Well, sure. The average woman in the U.S. has gotten fatter in the past 20 years and the weights for models have stayed the same. That would make a model further away from the average now than she was 20 years ago.
I just did a quick online search for the data so take these numbers with a grain of salt, but average bmi for 18 year olds around 1990 was 22 and average bmi for 18 year olds in 2000 was around 24.5. For a 5'4" young woman, that's a move from about 132 to 147.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyDogs
Ten years ago plus-size models averaged between size 12 and 18. Today the need for size diversity within the plus-size modeling industry continues to be questioned. The majority of plus-size models on agency boards are between a size 6 and 14, while the customers continue to express their dissatisfaction.
Can't size inflation explain that? If you're wearing jeans in a size 24W from Target, you're supposed to have a 45" waist. If you decide to sew your own jeans based on a pattern from Simplicity, a size 24 means you have a 39" waist. Those are pretty dramatic differences. If memory serves, the Simplicity pattern sizes have remained pretty constant over the years while store-bought clothing has been very, very generous in revamping their size numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyDogs
Most runway models meet the Body Mass Index physical criteria for Anorexia.
I don't mean to a jerk and criticize any of the other comments on this issue, but reading variants on this always upsets me because - for me - it reduces a painful, horrible eating disorder to a number. If you're under an 18.5 BMI you're anorexic. End of story.
I've never been anorexic, but I do struggle with my weight (to wit... I'm posting here!). There's so much that goes on mentally when it comes to gaining and losing weight that to reduce any eating disorder to a number and have that be the end of it... well, I think we're doing a disservice to those who are actually suffering from any eating disorder.
After another quick google... the diagnostic criteria for anorexia are complex and there are lots of factors that come into play. BMI is one part, but only one part. And there's also a difference between the BMI for underweight (where I believe most models fall) and severely underweight (where it becomes a serious medical problem).
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyDogs
50% of women wear a size 14 or larger, but most standard clothing outlets cater to sizes 14 or smaller.
Yeah, but the difference is that no one's promoting obesity or holding it up as an example of the ideal woman/man.
You're right - but I think people are looking in the wrong place if they want to blame their child's potential self-image on Coco Rocha rather than their own eating habits. A mother who struggles with weight, self-image, obesity, or an eating disorder (whether at the big or small end of the spectrum) has a far greater impact.
I just find it strange that women will be up in arms about some Paris runway model (which most little girls have no clue about) but will conveniently ignore the "MODEL" that wakes them up, makes them breakfast, sends them to school, stands on her scale each morning, buys a WW cookbook, etc...
I dunno. I'm just looking at my kid while typing this and thinking, is Karl Lagerfeld going to be to blame for whatever happens? Or is it that I am here on 3FC desperately trying to maintain my loss?
