[Nuclear Indeed]

Originally Posted by April Snow

I'm not sure that counting calories feels that much different than counting points. It's still about knowing the portion sizes and keeping track of everything you eat.

I did calorie counting and was relatively successful with it, but I will say that I am much happier on my current plan where the types of foods are restricted but the amounts are not. So as long as I eat the permitted foods, I don't have to worry about or count the quantities. It's definitely been a very positive change for me and I do find that I am MUCH more relaxed about food and it has not been a struggle to stay on plan with eating - I have been on plan ever day since I started on May 22.

I will also put in a plug for the concept of eating a very limited menu. I've read some research supporting the idea that people who eat a limited menu are more successful on diets. I think part of this is about your general outlook to weight loss. Some people look at what they are doing as a permanent lifestyle change and want to basically eat everything they would normally eat, but in more moderate quantities. For me, I know that this particularly strict part of my journey is temporary and I will not be eating this way for the rest of my life. Once the weight is off, I will start to incorporate a greater variety of foods back into my diet. I am not saying that this is the right way to go for everyone, just that I have personally found it to be much easier for me than trying to do the "everything is ok, in moderation" approach.

Honestly, counting calories vs counting points were very different for me. Essentialy, it's all the same information, but I find it MUCH easier to calculate calories. I made a pan of black bean brownies one time and was able to calculate the calorie down to the slice. I couldn't have done that as easily with points.

Also, it seems harder to "split" the points. If I wanted, say, a slice and a half of bread, I could just say it's 147 calories. With points, I could end up with something like 1.3333 points, and that isn't all that practical to me. I have no doubt that it works for other people, but I like to have very precise calculations.

With that aside, would you mind telling me what your plan is? I, too have difficulties with the whole "everything in moderation" approach, because I want to eat everything! What foods in particular are you limiting?

Originally Posted by kaplods

Remember too that while you need a plan, you don't need to pick the perfect one. I've lost 94 lbs on several different diets.

Because we so often say "pick something you can stick with," it sometimes gets interpreted as having to find the perfect plan from the beginning. I think it makes more sense to say "avoid plans you know you will never stick with," but otherwise experiment - experiment a lot.

I love exchange plans, because of their flexibility (nearly as flexible as calorie counting) and also because of the built in balance. I tend to go on food jags when left to my own devices. During my period I'll want a lot of red meat, during the summer I'll eat fruit and veggies til I'm sick. I always will avoid dairy if I don't intentionally include it, and it's really easy for me to overdo high-carb foods if I don't set limits.

Following an exchange plan is a lot easier than trying to set a calorie limit and additional guidelines. If I'm going to decide that I should eat at least 4 servings of veggies, at least 3 servings of fruit, 2 dairy, and no more than 6 tsp of fat - then I might as well use an exchange plan, rather than add conditions on top of calorie counting.

I chose a lower carb 1500 exchange plan I found online as my base. Then I added about 500 calories worth of "optional exchanges" - that is 6 exchanges (60-80 calories each) that I can spend on protein, starch, fruit, or dairy.

It makes the plan as easy and as flexible as calorie counting, while insuring some balance.

I also like that it can be adapted to any style of eating. I can translate the principles of any diet plan, including Atkins, South Beach, Primal Blueprint... into an exchange plan. The plan guides my selections, but the exchange plan controls the calorie level (I cannot follow any unlimited food plan. I can stall even on Atkins induction).

I loved how you started this post off. You're right, there's all this talk about picking what we can stick to for eternity. That can become a little overwhelming, especially to people like me who have misinterpreted it as "choose you're lifestyle diet NOW form the BEGINNING and never ever stray from it!". It helps to know that I can try different things along my journey. In fact, it might spice it up a little!

Since you mentioned exchange plans, I decided to read up on it. It seems a lot like weight watchers (wasn't WW inspired by EP?), but I think I may be willing to give it a try. I have a specific question, though: they say one slice of bacon counts as one fat, but it also counts as only 1 protein. Can I put it in either category? I specifically had 2 slices of turkey bacon.

Originally Posted by Munchy

I will be perfectly honest and say that WW points, calories, exchanges, etc are all the same. The WW points may be the easiest thing to count, especially because they weigh out the healthy aspect of the foods (ie something that is 100 calories is 100 calories, but depending on the other nutritional information, it could be 1, 2, or 3 points).

What did make things easiest for me when I started with WW many years ago, was I went through my entire pantry and fridge, and wrote the points on the boxes/packages with serving amounts with a sharpie.

Calorie counting already has it on the package, so that's one step you could feasibly skip

I further expressed my problems with weight watchers in the beginning of the post. I must say, though, that I never tried marking everything in my pantry. It seems like it could work, but still seems like a lot to go through.

[kaplods]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Indeed

Since you mentioned exchange plans, I decided to read up on it. It seems a lot like weight watchers (wasn't WW inspired by EP?), but I think I may be willing to give it a try. I have a specific question, though: they say one slice of bacon counts as one fat, but it also counts as only 1 protein. Can I put it in either category? I specifically had 2 slices of turkey bacon.

Yes, you can often count things as either one or the other. For example you can count beans as either protein, bread, or 1/2 of each (some diabetics will be told to count it always as bread, but everyone else can choose which category to use).

However, I've never seen 1 slice of bacon = 1 protein. It's "close enough" mathwise that you could, but turkey bacon is generally a bit leaner than pork.


According to my materials (and my calculations based on learning to "translate" nutrition labels into exchanges from the book "Exchanges for All Occasions, 4th edition - I don't think the info is in the 5th edition):


1 slice of pork or turkey bacon For example, in my exchange materials both turkey and pork bacon are 1 slice = 1 fat.

3 slices regular pork bacon = 1 protein and 2 fat exchanges (or 3 fat exchanges).

3 slices turkey bacon = 1 protein and 2 fat exchanges (or 3 fat exchanges).

3 slices turkey bacon = 1 protein

Originally Posted by Nuclear Indeed

I further expressed my problems with weight watchers in the beginning of the post. I must say, though, that I never tried marking everything in my pantry. It seems like it could work, but still seems like a lot to go through.

I do this with exchanges too. It seems like a lot of work, but it goes faster than you think and then you never have to do it again for that item (or at most have to copy it to the next box you buy).

For things I don't buy all the time, I even have a notebook in which I've written down the exchange information, so when I buy it next time, I don't have to recalculate the math, I just copy it from the notebook.

I also tend to do this during tv commercials. I'll take several boxes from the pantry, and during commercials I'll figure the exchanges and write them on the box. When I'm done (during the commerical) I'll exchange the boxes for a few more.


Once you get the hang of things, you start to be able to estimate in your head really well.

For example in exchange plans, bread/starch exchanges contain about 15g of carbs and up to 80 calories. Most cereals (between 110 and 180 calories) are equal to 2 bread servings. You don't have to memorize all cereals, you just have to pick cereals that fall between the 120 and 180 calorie mark per serving.

Most instant oatmeals also fall in that 25-40g of carb, and 110 - 170 calorie range per packet.

The estimates don't have to be exact. If your math tells you it's .7 to 1.2 exchanges - it counts as 1 exchange. As long as you're not always underestimating, you won't run into problems.