Uber - total agreement. We all face our own challenges. But then doesn't that get back up to the OP's question...why is it that people who have slower metabolisms and are overweight are given a different reaction (eat less!, regardless of what they are actually eating currently) than those with hyperspeed metabolisms that are underweight?
I mean, sure, those people do sometimes get the "eat a sandwich" response...but often, they are envied (even if they struggle to keep weight on or are medically underweight, which has plenty of health risks, comparable to overweight) or, if they REALLY have trouble keeping weight on, pitied. I have seen very few reactions of outright scorn/implications that fixing the problem is easy to someone who is underweight due to a very fast metabolism.
So to loop back around to the OP's question, when the solution to the problem sounds easy (Eat more for the underweight, less for the overweight), but isn't so in real life (because the overweight person has to consciously restrict calories, and the underweight person has to consciously force them down), why do underweight folks get the envy/pity and overweight folks get the scorn? It sure isn't for health reasons (medical underweight is just as risky as overweight, if not a bit more, statistics-wise). I suspect it has a lot to do with the fact that medical underweight is relatively uncommon, much less common than overweight, so it seems more like a "real" metabolic condition.
Uber - total agreement. We all face our own challenges. But then doesn't that get back up to the OP's question...why is it that people who have slower metabolisms and are overweight are given a different reaction (eat less!, regardless of what they are actually eating currently) than those with hyperspeed metabolisms that are underweight?
I mean, sure, those people do sometimes get the "eat a sandwich" response...but often, they are envied (even if they struggle to keep weight on or are medically underweight, which has plenty of health risks, comparable to overweight) or, if they REALLY have trouble keeping weight on, pitied. I have seen very few reactions of outright scorn/implications that fixing the problem is easy to someone who is underweight due to a very fast metabolism.
So to loop back around to the OP's question, when the solution to the problem sounds easy (Eat more for the underweight, less for the overweight), but isn't so in real life (because the overweight person has to consciously restrict calories, and the underweight person has to consciously force them down), why do underweight folks get the envy/pity and overweight folks get the scorn? It sure isn't for health reasons (medical underweight is just as risky as overweight, if not a bit more, statistics-wise). I suspect it has a lot to do with the fact that medical underweight is relatively uncommon, much less common than overweight, so it seems more like a "real" metabolic condition.
But then doesn't that get back up to the OP's question...why is it that people who have slower metabolisms and are overweight are given a different reaction (eat less!, regardless of what they are actually eating currently) than those with hyperspeed metabolisms that are underweight?
But who's to say, how does one determine if they truly DO have a slower metabolism??? And by how much??? It could be minuscule.
As far as the original question, I personally never think that someone who *appears* to eat whatever he wants can *safely* do so because of his "metabolism". But, I'm sure there are many that do.
I just tried to read through all this and I am sure I missed some of it, but I have to agree and disagree with things I read.
I think that genetics does play a part, I have people in my family to prove that. My sister and I grew up eating the same and pretty much doing the same things. She was always thin.. I wasn't. My dad is a small man whereas my mom and her sisters were all "fluffy" women.
I do think though that some people are thin because they are really active, while some people are overweight because they are couch potatoes. That isn't ALWAYS that case.
Society has made it more difficult for people that are bigger. If you aren't thin you aren't attractive. I think its total b.s. Health should be the concern, but it will never be that way. It really pains me to think about this.
I probably went off on a bunny trail... sorry about that.
Really, if you want to boil the discussion down to its bare bones, the essence of the question is this: if you are "naturally thin" or "tend to run fat" is that volitional or not....
Is your body weight the result of your personal choices that ultimately you control?
Or is your body weight the result of complex genetic, environmental, and medical factors, most of which you DON'T control?
Does it have to be either/or?
IMO, it's possible to have a metabolism that is legitimately slower than the norm for a person of the same age, weight, sex, activity level, etc, etc (in other words, matched on the variables).
But it's also possible to make the choice to override that, as several people have posted. Through trial and error, they have established the calorie level THEY personally need to lose or maintain their weight. It's irrelevant that the level is different than it would be for someone else, they have the ability to control it and eat only as much as their individual body needs, whatever the factors in play that determined that caloric need.
I do believe that many, if not most, morbidly obese people have metabolic and/or hormonal disorders that they must address that go far beyond "calories-in, calories-out". Gary Taubes in "Good Calories, Bad Calories" pretty much proved this to my satisfaction, and here is a great podcast which discusses it further. Link to podcast.
It is rather long but in my opinion, worth it. The podcast is with Dr. Stephan Guyenet, a young Ph.D specializing in body fat regulation. He also is not "wed" to any particular protocol. He just goes where the science takes him and sometimes changes his mind based on new evidence. (While this seems logical, it is upsetting to me how ideological some scientists are once they pick their path, they feel they can't deviate from it even in light of new evidence.)
That does NOT mean we are off the hook in our eating. What it DOES do is perhaps directs us to a way-of-eating that will minimize the pervasive hunger that so many of us feel, like we are fighting against our own body. We shouldn't have to do that, and if science can help us, we should let it.
What societal acknowledgment of underlying disorders for obesity would also do is something else: it would take away the horrible judgment and humiliation that can, and often does, accompany morbid obesity.
I think the successful weight losers/maintainers have hit on, perhaps by accident, the combination of type and quantity of food and exercise that works for them, perhaps healing or at least addressing their underlying disorder.
I mean, sure, those people do sometimes get the "eat a sandwich" response...but often, they are envied (even if they struggle to keep weight on or are medically underweight, which has plenty of health risks, comparable to overweight) or, if they REALLY have trouble keeping weight on, pitied. I have seen very few reactions of outright scorn/implications that fixing the problem is easy to someone who is underweight due to a very fast metabolism.
Well, I hate to keep batting this back and forth, but I remain highly skeptical of the idea that there are people who would waste away and die if they didn't eat huge high calorie meals and drink protein shakes, etc.
I've spent a good amount of time in rural areas in the developing world, and believe me, there are many places where people routinely eat much less than what we would consider "adequate" and work far harder than we do, even when we work out... and yes, in fact, they're are skinny-- and some are skinnier than others. I'm not talking about malnourished, I'm just saying that the norm there is much leaner than here. An average well-nourished American looks big there. But the more hyper ones are skinnier than average .... but people are not starving and wasting away because they don't have access to protein shakes.... People can survive and thrive on far far less than what we think we need.
On the other hand, to get back to the OPs post-- I know that I used to actually wish that I suffered from anorexia, because I knew I had badly disordered eating, but my form of disordered eating made me fat. I perceived anorexia to be a prestige diagnosis, because it made you thin and thus got you attention-- whereas binge eating made you fat and then nobody cared... So clearly, I see where the OP is coming from. One of the hardest things about being fat is that it is highly visible and perceived to be self-inflicted. And that is a very difficult burden to bear.
I just tried to read through all this and I am sure I missed some of it, but I have to agree and disagree with things I read.
I think that genetics does play a part, I have people in my family to prove that. My sister and I grew up eating the same and pretty much doing the same things. She was always thin.. I wasn't. My dad is a small man whereas my mom and her sisters were all "fluffy" women.
I do think though that some people are thin because they are really active, while some people are overweight because they are couch potatoes. That isn't ALWAYS that case.
Society has made it more difficult for people that are bigger. If you aren't thin you aren't attractive. I think its total b.s. Health should be the concern, but it will never be that way. It really pains me to think about this.
I probably went off on a bunny trail... sorry about that.
Well, that's the same bunny trail I've been hopping down. Glad to hop with you. I agree with every word you said.
We have three cats. All eat the same food on the same schedule. One is obese, one is tiny, and one is muscular. And the one with the high BP and history of stroke? Not the obese one, as might have been expected, but the tiny one. She has an enormous appetite but stays thin. Her thyroid has been tested. It is overactive, she needs meds for that as well as the BP. Score one for metabolism.
As for the obese one, the last vet we took her to didn't seem concerned, even though she waddles and she can't jump up on the furniture by herself. No tests were run on her. But we have a new vet now. The old vet didn't check the tiny cat's BP or thyroid either, but the new one did and it turned out to be the problem. I think when we get out from under *my* medical bills, we'll take the obese cat to the new vet. I'll bet anything that her thyroid is low.
Hubby also tells me that our obese cat starved early in her life. When his grandmother found her as a stray kitten, she was skin and bones. Did starvation lead to messed up metabolism in her case? Is that why she is obese while she and the other cats eat exactly the same?
And as for me, if there were a family reunion on my father's side, I'd be one of the slimmest women there. Some people say that when entire families in multiple generations are heavy, it is not genetics, but passing down the eating habits. No, I didn't simply learn their eating habits, since I didn't grow up with them.
Bottom line: genetics tells part, but not all, of the story. IMO.
Last edited by LovebirdsFlying; 05-21-2010 at 12:37 AM.
(snipped for space)
On the other hand, to get back to the OPs post-- I know that I used to actually wish that I suffered from anorexia, because I knew I had badly disordered eating, but my form of disordered eating made me fat. I perceived anorexia to be a prestige diagnosis, because it made you thin and thus got you attention-- whereas binge eating made you fat and then nobody cared... So clearly, I see where the OP is coming from. One of the hardest things about being fat is that it is highly visible and perceived to be self-inflicted. And that is a very difficult burden to bear.
I agree with everything you've said too, and I think you get my point exactly. Others have said it too. Thin people who "can't" gain are envied or pitied; fat people who "can't" lose are ridiculed.
Flashback from my childhood: With my parents out of town, my uncle was caring for us. When we got home from school, my brother (always slim, which is among the minority in my family) snacked on several slices of bread. Upon finding it gone later, my uncle turned on me with a scornful, "Was it good?" I was the pudgy one, so he jumped to the conclusion that I had eaten it. Then there's Mama Cass, who died of a heart attack, but urban legend has her choking to death. She was a large woman, so let's assume she left this world in the process of pigging out. Everyone knows that's what fat people do. Right?
Last edited by LovebirdsFlying; 05-21-2010 at 12:14 AM.
When I was a teenager I was on a constant diet. I thought I was fat at 110 pounds because the other girls in my class were all around 100 pounds. I was also convinced that I had a slow metabolism because there I'd sit during lunch nibbling on lettuce leaves and melba toast while all around me the skinny girls were wolfing down cheeseburgers and brownies. How could they stay so skinny eating like that? I'd wonder. It never occured to me that they were also much more active. They played sports, were cheerleaders, paced and fidgeted during classes. They kept moving without, and this is important, not really making a conscious effort to do so.
I on the other hand, has to force myself to exercise and when I wasn't actually exercising I was sitting.
Flash forward thirty something years.
Now that same 110 pounds I used to think was fat is my goal weight. I am five pounds from goal, eating at least twice as many calories per day I did when I was a teenager. But I also move more . I have an active job, I power walk, I hike trails, I never use elevators etc. From the moment I get to work at 7 am to the moment I sit down to eat dinner at 8 pm I am in constant motion. And I lose weight on a calorie intake that would have caused weight gain when I was younger and my metabolism was supposedly faster.
And yes, sometimes now, people will see me eating a planned and accounted for high calorie treat and say things like, "How can you stay so thin eating like that? You must have a fast metabolism."
And yes, sometimes now, people will see me eating a planned and accounted for high calorie treat and say things like, "How can you stay so thin eating like that? You must have a fast metabolism."
Oh I get this ALL the time.
I DO have my planned splurges and they can be quite hefty and they are almost 100% done in front of others at social events and I get comments all the time, people saying to me, "how in the world do you stay so thin eating like THAT????" Someone actually said to me, "I didn't know you were now running marathons, otherwise how could you be so thin?"
Then I'll get it the reverse way too. I"ll be in front of others, at a social event and it WON'T be time for my planned indulgence, it'll be a time where I'm very much ON PLAN. There won't be very many good choices AT ALL. But luckily I ate a little something before hand, and I've got a snack with me if need be for the car ride home. And the only good choice I can find is a raw veggie tray, so people will see me ONLY eating the veggies and sipping some diet soda, and then I'll get the snide remarks, "no wonder you stay so thin, you eat like a bird, no thank you!". But of course they are totally unaware that my daily menu consists of a steady stream of voluminous, really splendid foods.
In either case, neither side is getting the FULL picture and are making assumptions - false assumptions.
I think the successful weight losers/maintainers have hit on, perhaps by accident, the combination of type and quantity of food and exercise that works for them, perhaps healing or at least addressing their underlying disorder.
For decades I felt that my obesity was due to my metabolism. I have diagnosed hypothyroidism and have been on medication for it for 13+ years. I also had many of the symptoms of PCOS. You would have thought that I would have lost weight automatically when I started on thyroid medication, when I was at my highest weight of 248. No. I still had to work at it. And I was only able to lose about 60 lbs over a 2 year period. I felt that while I was on medication that my thyroid was still compromised, that it still probably didn't work properly, despite regular testing by my doctor.
I wasn't until I believed, truly believed, that I was able to lose weight, that it was clear to me. I had to smash through the myths that I had created for myself. Slowly I found my way. I had to make this journey through trial and error. As many had stated here on 3fc before, we are all experiments of one. We have to find what works for ourselves.
Loser, I was exactly the same way about my weight and hypothyroidism. It was my excuse for staying obese -- after all, I really do have a medical problem that affects my metabolism!
But my doctor was unsympathetic when I had my little pity parties about my weight and insisted that if my medication was correctly regulated, then I could lose weight just like someone with a normal thyroid. I would get so annoyed with her because obviously she was wrong. Heck, I went to Weight Watchers and took a walk outside every day. I just couldn't lose weight! It wasn't my fault -- it was my metabolism!
But dang it, she was right! When I finally got my head on straight and really tried counting calories and joining a gym, it worked (much to my chagrin ) I lost 122 pounds in a year, so clearly my metabolism was just fine. The problem had been me all along, not my metabolism.
Like Losermom, this was a myth that I had created for myself. It was my way of denying that I was responsible for being obese. All along I had the power to fix it, but I just didn't realize it.
I must be the only person in the world who doesn't pay attention to what other people eat and what they have in their shopping carts. When it comes to weight loss and maintenance, I have blinders on. All I care about is what works for me. After all these years, I know exactly, precisely how much exercise and how many calories it takes to gain, lose, and maintain weight. It is completely irrelevant to me what other people do, though I have to admit that metabolic calculators give me a giggle because they're so wildly inaccurate. Yes, my daily calorie needs are fairly low and I do a lot of exercise, but so what? My body is what it is . What works for other people doesn't mean anything about what works for me.
We can give each other support and encouragement, but at the end of the day, weight loss/maintenance is a solitary journey. We each are blessed with our own unique bodies, with all their strengths and weaknesses, and have to work within their parameters. We each have to find our own path, but I'm convinced that there is a way for each of us.
Meg, well stated. It's clear that our path was similar in many ways. I too was a pretty regular exerciser. I was just not eating properly and too much of the wrong things! This weight loss journey has taught me that life does not happen to us, we create the life that we want.
Thank you Magrat, for that very interesting insight. I am learning something from each and every poster in this thread.
) I lost 122 pounds in a year, so clearly my metabolism was just fine. The problem had been me all along, not my metabolism. 
Yes, my daily calorie needs are fairly low and I do a lot of exercise, but so what? My body is what it is . What works for other people doesn't mean anything about what works for me. 
