I have a hard time imagining that you would feel grateful if someone said to you "maybe you shouldn't wear that bathing suit." What do you expect people to tell you exactly? That you're fat and you need to lose weight?
IMO, it depends on who's saying it.
F.ex., my best friend, when I got to my heaviest, said, "You should start running with me. You're packing on the pounds, hun."
F.ex., my best friend, when I got to my heaviest, said, "You should start running with me. You're packing on the pounds, hun."
It bothered me, but it had to be said.
Did it need to be said? Really? I guess we're all different, well I KNOW we're all different. You see, I knew. I knew I was enormous, unhealthy and unfit and that I needed to change. I didn't need (or want) anyone to tell me. If someone would have told me, though of course I knew they were aware of it, it's not like I could hide it. But I would have been embarrassed and mortified. It wouldn't have propelled me into action. It would have made me even MORE uncomfortable with myself and the world. It would have made me hold back more. Participate less. It wouldn't have been good, productive or useful.
Iconised Ghost has a good point. People are quick to point out when we're getting "too skinny." Why is telling someone they're getting too fat a no-no? Is it because it's better to be "too skinny" than "too fat"? Do we secretly value being too skinny? I mean, if I'm going to admit it, I'd rather be too skinny than too fat. But both can be equally unhealthy.
Anyway, like Wannabeskinny's mom, I *hated* it when my mom would make comments like that. And she would say it in front of other people. It was practically like calling me fat in so many words. Hey, I know it. It doesn't need to be announced to the room that I'm obese.
Did it need to be said? Really? I guess we're all different, well I KNOW we're all different. You see, I knew. I knew I was enormous, unhealthy and unfit and that I needed to change. I didn't need (or want) anyone to tell me. If someone would have told me, though of course I knew they were aware of it, it's not like I could hide it. But I would have been embarrassed and mortified. It wouldn't have propelled me into action. It would have made me even MORE uncomfortable with myself and the world. It would have made me hold back more. Participate less. It wouldn't have been good, productive or useful.
I think it does. Even though we all "knew" we were gaining weight/were overweight, sometimes it takes an outside source to get you in line.
Of course, I'm not advocating people randomly saying, "Jeez, fatty, put the burger down!"
But, as in my case, if the criticism comes with a suggested solution, especially if it's from a trusted friend/relative, us dieters should step back from the defensiveness and take it at face value. People who care about us and want what's best for us will say things, even if they know what they say will cause a rift. We can either get our scruff up in self-defense or take what they say at face value.
To put it a different way, if, instead of weight loss, it was an addiction like alcohol, drugs or gambling (because, let's be honest, most of got here because of one form or another of food addiction), would our loved ones be obligated to just sit back and say nothing?
I'd be hurt if someone told me, "Hey that doesn't look flattering on you..." BUT very grateful! I mean I'm a fatty [for now] nothing is gonna insta-slim me. But there are better choices to be made concerning clothing. So when I saw the swim suit on that I had worn all summer look that ... unflattering, I was a little upset.
But you all are right.
1. I would have been slightly offended at the minimum.
2. The subtle encouragement of "Maybe be a salad?" while embarrassing in front of a crowd, one-on-one it wouldn't be so bad...
I think that in some cases it has to do with how we see ourselves vs how others see us, and also the cultural message that you can't be fat AND pretty.
I had this friend in high school who was chubby, probably a size 14 and a DD. I had known her for years and she had always been the chubby girl, so that was part of her identity to me, so I used a different set of criteria in judging her when she asked me if she looked good in her bikini. Don't get me wrong...I thought she was beautiful and really rocked that bathing suit, but it's not like she was Joanna Krupa or anything. It's just that she wasn't trying to fool anyone into thinking she was skinny. She was fat and she owned it, and I guess that gave her a license to rock a bikini at a heavier weight.
For me on the other hand, I had been thin and I gained weight. I was still trying to wear clothes that made me look like the girl I used to be, the thin girl inside, ya know? So if I had had on that same bathing suit, I would have been annoyed if someone told me I looked good. Wearing that bathing suit would have been like exposing all the bad parts of me that I didn't want people to know about. Is this irrational? Probably. Would I have been better served by just embracing my newfound poundage and getting on with my life? Probably. I think it's a pretty common attitude that fat is okay for other people, but not for me.
So I do think we use relative criteria when we're asked how someone looks. I think we judge them to what we feel their full potential could be. If we think they look as good as they possibly can, we say yes that looks great, even if in an absolute sense, maybe it doesn't. And I think in the case of family and friends who know you and love you and see your physique as just one component of what makes you your wonderful self, yeah, I think they believe that full potential is actually pretty awesome. I wouldn't change one thing about this friend of mine, but she may not be happy with herself and she may not have incorporated "fat" into her identity, so there's cognitive dissonance there when I tell her she looks great, even though I believe it bc she's my fat fabulous friend. She is fat and beautiful in my mind, though a lot of people feel like those things are mutually exclusive. So to me it's like, ok maybe she looks fat in that dress, but that's ok bc she is fat, and that dress looks awesome!
Sorry for my long-winded-ness.
Last edited by forestroad; 10-27-2009 at 10:47 AM.
I think that sometimes we fool ourselves (sometimes unknowingly) into thinking maybe we're not "that" big (even though deep down we may know that we are), and finally hearing "you're gaining weight" from a close friend or family member forces us out of this "I'm-not-really-that-big" mind frame. It's like a wake up that says, "the rest of the world really does notice" when we've been trying to convince ourselves that we really weren't that big. I think that's why hearing it from others can be helpful for some.
I hate it too I sometimes wish people would just tell you how it is "HEY YOUR #$^ LOOKS FAT IN THAT" but at the same time if someone told me that I would probably be depressed and it would have only made it worse. So I think people need to be "gentle" on the subject because I know I wouldn't have taken it so well.
I hate it too I sometimes wish people would just tell you how it is "HEY YOUR #$^ LOOKS FAT IN THAT" but at the same time if someone told me that I would probably be depressed and it would have only made it worse. So I think people need to be "gentle" on the subject because I know I wouldn't have taken it so well.
Definitely. My husband will often shake his head and hand me a different shirt. Or, if pants don't look good, he'll say, "You're not quite there yet so those aren't really flattering." It gets the point across - it looks like crap - without making me *feel* like crap.
I don't think that telling people that they should lose weight should be illegal or anything, but there are way too many factors in how that person will be affected. For example, what if you woke up and felt cute and confident in your bathing suit that day, looking forward to swimming and relaxing in the sun only to have someone tell you that you looked bad.... wasn't feeling good a valid feeling in the first place? Why should someone take that away from you? Or for example what if you already felt extremely uncomfortable in your bathing suit only to be further humiliated that day.... there's any number of roads that comments can lead you on including feeling bad, or feeling motivated to do something about it. But the whole situation is completely subjective and there is no telling how adverse the effects will be.
Making comments on a person's appearance (unless it's positive) is entirely inappropriate. You would never walk up to someone you didn't know and tell them they were too skinny, not if you're well-mannered anyway. People take license to tell you you're too skinny if you were originally over-weight so the real truth is that the discrimination remains on currently overweight or previously overweight people.
Losing a lot of weight is a big threat to other people, especially people who may have previously thought that they were better, prettier, skinnier, or stronger than you. In their minds they higher upper in the looks department than you and now you're in contention for a better spot on your mutual social circle maybe? You losing weight may feel challenging to their own sensibilities so the only thing they can do is urge you to get back to the weight that made them comfortable. It's really an acceptable form of discrimination if you think about it.
Iconised Ghost has a good point. People are quick to point out when we're getting "too skinny." Why is telling someone they're getting too fat a no-no? Is it because it's better to be "too skinny" than "too fat"? Do we secretly value being too skinny? I mean, if I'm going to admit it, I'd rather be too skinny than too fat. But both can be equally unhealthy.
I agree....why is it ok for someone to tell me I'm too thin when it's NOT ok for them to tell me to lose weight?
My husband and I went to eat dinner at a friend's house. After drinking a few, and while I was eating some chicken enchiladas, the friend said, "Mindi, you look sick. You need to eat some more of that and gain weight."
It's not like I was eating like a bird. I had a plate of two big chicken enchiladas drowned with cheese, along with chips and cheese dip. I was full, and I ate pretty much what my husband ate that night. I'm 5 feet, 8.5 inches tall and weigh 140 pounds. I'm nowhere NEAR underweight for my height.
But why is it ok for him to make me feel like crap about how I look? It wouldn't be ok if I was big again.
Wow - lots of insights here! We are a self aware bunch, aren't we??
I have to say I agree so much with Wannabe - there is that cognitive dissonance between how we see ourselves and how we see each other - AND in how we view others. I was slim when I was younger, but the people with whom I work have only ever known me this size, so to them, I can look great. To me, I still look like Shrek.
Yet, I saw an old boyfriend after I'd gained the weight and he said, 'wow, you were so beautiful...and now you're still beautiful, but it's lost a bit in everything you've gained'. Sounds harsh, but he meant it well, and strangely I appreciated it. I DID look better before.
And, as Forest says, when we lose weight we threaten those around us...and I'm guilty of that myself. I'm guilty of looking at those who lose a lot of weight and thinking, 'great, another skinny minny who's better looking than me'. And if I'm being honest, a lot of that is envy...I want to be the one losing that weight.
I don't want someone to tell me I'm fat - I know I'm fat, and seeing pics of myself reaffirms that. And I agree with Forest, commenting on anyone's appearance is inappropriate, unless it's very positive.
I don't need anyone to tell me I'm fat. I know I'm fat.
If I'm in denial, and not ready to own that fact, someone else trying to tell me I'm fat is just going to piss me off and push me deeper into denial.
If I'm ready to own it, I don't need anyone else to tell me. And it's no one else's business anyhow.
And by the way, it's possible to be fat and gorgeous. That's not to say I am - just that some women can pull it off. Confidence and properly-fitting clothes are two of the necessary ingredients.
I can't even imagine my friends telling me that!
Is it because it's better to be "too skinny" than "too fat"? Do we secretly value being too skinny? I mean, if I'm going to admit it, I'd rather be too skinny than too fat. But both can be equally unhealthy.
