[mandalinn82]

I really hate the assumption that people are doing things on purpose for attention.

I do think some people need more attention and affirmation than others, and that they actively seek that affirmation in social situations. But I have a REALLY hard time believing that anyone does this on purpose, period. No one enters a social situation and thinks "Wow, it hasn't been about me for a while, better throw in a self-deprecating comment so people will compliment me". This is much more subconscious and indicates much bigger issues with self esteem and worth, and dismissing those as "just wanting attention" is kind of cold.

It's sad, and especially sad because she probably does not realize that she's doing this to a point you notice, and probably realizes even less that she's losing respect in the workplace and potential friends.

I stand by my original response, with the possible addition of "I am really uncomfortable hearing you talk about yourself that way, so I'd really like it if you could be more positive".

[harrismm]

Originally Posted by mandalinn82

I really hate the assumption that people are doing things on purpose for attention.

I do think some people need more attention and affirmation than others, and that they actively seek that affirmation in social situations. But I have a REALLY hard time believing that anyone does this on purpose, period. No one enters a social situation and thinks "Wow, it hasn't been about me for a while, better throw in a self-deprecating comment so people will compliment me". This is much more subconscious and indicates much bigger issues with self esteem and worth, and dismissing those as "just wanting attention" is kind of cold.

It's sad, and especially sad because she probably does not realize that she's doing this to a point you notice, and probably realizes even less that she's losing respect in the workplace and potential friends.

I stand by my original response, with the possible addition of "I am really uncomfortable hearing you talk about yourself that way, so I'd really like it if you could be more positive".

Well, I wish you were correct when you say "No one enters a social situation.....".So not true.I see people in therapy situation ALL OF THE TIME with these type of behaviors.

[mandalinn82]

Consciously, though?

I know people do it, but I don't think it's so much on purpose as it is compulsive.

[harrismm]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deprecation

Yep....consciously.Welcome the the world of mental health.

[mandalinn82]

Yep - mental health. Sorry, when I said "consciously", I guess I should have been more specific and said "without being driven by psychological compulsion". IE, someone is aware that they are doing it, but the reason they are doing it is a psychological issue, not because they think it's fun to do.

I'd just rather be compassionate to people who are dealing with compulsions related to self esteem, instead of being dismissive ("Oh, she's just doing it to get attention"). It may be true it's just for attention, but the need for that attention which is driving the behavior is real, even if it is driven by mental illness or self-esteem problems.

[harrismm]

I agree.Id like to think that those who dedicate their lives to helping those with mental health issues are not dismissive.But we are talking about educated mental health professionals here.Is it possible that someone without any education in mental illness might witness this behavior and be dismissive because they do not understand the pathology...of course.

[JulieJ08]

I doubt most people who make these comments about themselves are making a conscious decision to do so. They just pop out. But it's still a poor way of asking for help, as it drives people away. Which is sad. I'd probably bend over backward for even an acquaintance who directly asked me for help or feedback or a listening ear. But the indirect approach makes me feel manipulated and/or drained and I will either avoid the person or just vaguely agree with them.

I think the person who asks for help seems like they are asking for a discrete thing. Whereas the "hinter" comes off like a bottomless pit that will suck you down. It's difficult, because it's terribly hard for anyone to ask for that kind of help directly. But with some people, the more they put themselves down, the more people avoid them, the worse they feel, the harder they try to elicit a reaction, the more people avoid them ...

I say all this as a person who has struggled with many inappropriate beliefs about myself, overcoming some and still working on others. I'm on the other extreme, I'd feel terribly awkward and self-conscious about putting myself down to others. The opposite extreme (keeping it all in) isn't healthy either nor is it a virtue. So there's a big gray area in between.

[juliastl27]

Originally Posted by mandalinn82

I really hate the assumption that people are doing things on purpose for attention.

I do think some people need more attention and affirmation than others, and that they actively seek that affirmation in social situations. But I have a REALLY hard time believing that anyone does this on purpose, period. No one enters a social situation and thinks "Wow, it hasn't been about me for a while, better throw in a self-deprecating comment so people will compliment me". This is much more subconscious and indicates much bigger issues with self esteem and worth, and dismissing those as "just wanting attention" is kind of cold.

It's sad, and especially sad because she probably does not realize that she's doing this to a point you notice, and probably realizes even less that she's losing respect in the workplace and potential friends.

I stand by my original response, with the possible addition of "I am really uncomfortable hearing you talk about yourself that way, so I'd really like it if you could be more positive".

^this^

also, if this woman was a size 0 id agree that she just wanted some attention. weight is a BIG issue in our society and when i was at my heaviest i felt REALLY terrible about myself. i used to constantly make jokes and comments about how fat i was. for me, it was almost like diffusing a bomb, i already said it, so now you cant say it to hurt me.

[harrismm]

Its like anything else, we can agree to disagree.I am extremely passionate about my profession.At that sometimes can be misinterpreted as being "Preachy".I will say this and then let it go....I believe that there is a payoff we receive in everything we do.It may seem strange to some but she is getting something out of her behavior or she would not continue to repeat it.Mental illness and mental health issues are very difficult for most people to understand.I wish this coworker of the origional posters the best of luck.Peace.

[kiramira]

Man! I personally don't have the time or the emotional energy to constantly stroke someone's ego, ya know? I kind of resent it when co-workers do this sort of thing because it makes the REST of us "responsible" for how that person feels about themselves. And I don't want that burden, and I think it is unfair of others to expect anyone to make them feel better about themselves in a general sense. There is no doubt that the woman involved is seeking attention, and by saying what she is saying, she seems to want a specific response.

Years ago, a common term for this was "fishing for compliments" -- this interaction feeds a need for people like this. And it IS completely conscious IHMO simply because if the person WASN'T getting the response that he/she was getting, he/she wouldn't keep going back to that specific well so to speak.

Look at it this way: X says: "I feel like crap. Y always says things to make me feel good. I'll go talk to Y." Y obliges by filling that need. If Y said "I really don't like it when you speak about yourself that way" and refused to engage in this conversation, I GUARANTEE YOU that X would migrate to other people who filled that need. X is completely aware of the behaviour and will ABSOLUTELY modify her interactions based on the response that she gets.

I see it all the time, too, and I personally REFUSE to enable one's self-loathing behaviours. Now, I AM supportive if a close friend is going through a rough time, but for someone who is CONSTANTLY needing this kind of interaction has moved on to others because I won't fuel that particular fire...

Kira

[Sunnigummi]

Kira said it! While I do think there are a few (very few, actually) people who do this subconsciously or what have you, I believe the majority of people who engage in this self-loathing behavior are doing it on purpose. They feel bad about themselves and think "well, I hate myself, let's see what others think of me". This is going to look harsh to some, but I really think we're in a society where people are quick to point the finger at circumstances and other people instead of placing the blame where it belongs: oneself. I am still overweight, and sure that makes me feel bad somedays but I don't even think about mentioning it to someone else and bringing them down in the hopes of bringing myself up. I think I did this with my mom once who said "either do something about it or shut up". I think that was the best advice she gave me, really. I'm fond of being upfront with people and I like it when others are upfront with me, so maybe that's why I responded in a positive way to that comment.

[jendiet]

I'd have to say your friend has a low self esteem problem too. Stating her negativity and hoping for positive feedback, may be her way of coping with it.

For example--you honestly do feel you are ugly. You want to believe you are not ugly, that it's just negativity inside of you. So instead of saying. "Do you think I am ugly?" and causing people to have to think about their answer--which could be false btw. If you state "I am ugly". You will most likely get a truthful reaction rather than a thought out answer. If a friend genuinely, exclaims "no! you are not ugly. That is silly!"--you have feedback that your thoughts are most likely NOT true. But if a friend says "you are such a sweet person, why would you think that?" You might want to do something to improve on personal appearance--wax your eyebrows, get your teeth whitened. Or something.

I grew up with a very low self esteem. I thought I was one of the ugliest people on the planet. And I would walk around asking my friends "Do you think I'm ugly?" because I knew they cared. But I would voice "I am ugly" to see a stranger's truthful reaction.

The girl that is a size 0 still complaining she is fat. Most likely has a dysmorphic view of her body. And she is doing the same thing. She is trying to get truthful reaction to a statement that she may feel about herself. Notice she has not asked "Do you think I am fat?" She states "i am fat". I would watch her closely for signs of anorexia or other ED.

I don't believe in being dismissive of anybody for any reason. But that is why I am in the nursing field.

[kiramira]

I don't think it is a case of being dismissive -- being in the health care profession myself, sometimes you have to recognize the difference between being helpful/supportive and ENABLING destructive behaviours, no?

And if you truly believe you are "ugly" what POSSIBLE difference would it make if others agreed or disagreed with you -- after all, it is your "truth", so you wouldn't need to have others input as to whether you were "right" or not would you? If you feel the need to bring it up to others and strangers then clearly you are seeking validation for your belief which means by definition, you don't truly truly believe it. So if you keep ASKING this question (and seriously, who in their right mind will say "YES you are UGLY") it is because you are seeking a specific response since you are dismissing anything BUT those opinions which reinforce your self-loathing. So even responding to comments/questions such as these is just enabling this destructive behaviour. And I don't think there is much difference between making a statement and posing a question. After all, the majority of questions are just statements in disguise. The response to BOTH by the individual in question is the same:

Q: Am I fat? A: NO Response: I don't believe you. I'll ask someone else.

vs

Statement: I am fat. Reply: NO. Response: I don't believe you. I'll say it to someone else.

The result is the same, no?

After all, I am 5 ft 7. I know this. I believe it. I don't feel the need to ask people if they THINK I am 5 ft 7 because I know this to be true...and if I DO continually ask people, then clearly my belief is based on their opinions so it isn't a truth, but an area of personal uncertainty. And it isn't being dismissive to say "ENOUGH already" if you are constantly barraged by a co-worker to fufill his or her self-destructive needs...

Kira

[Ufi]

I wish I could offer some tips, but I'm afraid I contributed to making things worse for a co-worker in what sounds like a similar situation.

She used to say bad stuff about her all the time, so I made it my mission to boost her feelings. I would tell her genuinely good things about her work, unprompted point out when she was nice, etc. I would randomly say nice but true things about her appearance, so it wasn't just countering when she said bad things about herself, such as telling her I liked a top or that her hair looked nice. Positive reinforcement.

Long story short, she's become something of a monster. She did lose a lot of weight (good for her!), but she also now acts like she's perfect. She actually came out and said, to our boss, "I don't make mistakes." Yikes! At first, I wondered if it was me being jealous of her weight loss and not realizing it, but other people we work with say things behind her back about her attitude. She used to be quite nice, but now she can be pretty catty and self-involved. It came to the point where I just started avoiding her because she acted superior to me and made sarcastic remarks.

I'm not saying that I'm to blame, since we're all responsible for our own behavior, but it seems like something went terribly wrong along the way. I won't take that same approach with anyone again.

Hope you have better luck in your situation.

[JulieJ08]

Ufi, she's probably just still finding her way. When you spend your whole life thinking you're worth nothing, you sometimes go a little overboard the other direction when you realize you don't have to take crap from people (or yourself) anymore. I know I spent so long expecting *nothing* from people or myself, that when I started changing, it was really hard to know what is just normal standing up for yourself and what is going too far. Really hard. Doesn't make her not responsible for her words/actions. But it's really murky waters trying to guess what someone's motivations and feelings are.