I am in agreement with those that believe if someone has a serious medical condition that requires wls then by all means, get it done but if it is just because you want a quick fix then it's not for you (I am using the word you in a general term and not to anyone in particular). Dedication, commitment and lots of hard work are what's required to lose weight, though not those exclusively, and keep it off . It is not a diet to me, it is a lifetime change and you have to want it bad enough for yourself that you will let nothing stop you from achieving it.
Simple doesn't mean easy, you're right! Something I see here often is people saying, 'But everyone knows <insert fact about healthy eating here>'. The problem is, everyone *doesn't* know that. Kira gave the example of someone eating "healthy salads" that are in fact covered with croutons and cheese and drenched in dressing. Many people honestly do NOT understand that those things are all high in calories. And not just kinda high, SUPER high. Same thing with fast food. I didn't gain all my weight by pigging out all the time (although there was some cookies and chips action on the weekends, most of the time)--I gained a lot of it just by sitting around and eating fast food for lunch every day, combined with take-and-bake pizza on Friday night, combined with a dinner out here and there.
I like Kira's example of the salad too as I used to eat salads like that way back when. Reminds me of my past eating habits and large part of me was clueless. I think one of the reasons why I don't always like blanket statements like "diet and exercise," putting things in simplistic terms is that while yes there is truth (and I agree generally) there are these exceptions and things are never as simple as the statement is. I think most things can be broken down into simplistic terms, but it is like the "healthy salads." Yeah simplistically it is a salad, so is ambrosia salad and doesn't that have marshmallows. lol. However, clearly there is a bit more there. I don't think that people who eat "healthy salads" really know what they're eating. I was like that once. I've seen people say "how could they not know that it isn't healthy," but to me and maybe I'm on my own on this, diet and nutrition can be a complicated subject. lol I had a friend who said I should eat baked beans every day because he thought it was healthy, all because of an article he read about a guy who ate baked beans as a diet. The article even had "expert advice." Exact quote from my friend giving me advice, "All you need is baked beans and exercise," and he was serious. lol I can't eat baked beans for the rest of my life, let alone the sugar would have bad effects on my issues.
Everyone has their own opinion. Every has a way of saying things. One person says it is as simple as diet and exercise (i've actually been told this personally), another person says no you need low carb, another person says it is all about calorie counting, another person says to focus on short term goals, etc etc. Experts and non-experts, it is a lot of depth out there and for the average person I really think it becomes so overwhelming that they burn out. I can understand and appreciate on some levels the simple general blanket thoughts and terms, but then again I wouldn't walk up to someone who has had WLS and tell them all they need is diet and exercise and that their problem is them. I've witnessed an individual actually say something along those lines to a person who had WLS and the reaction wasn't a positive one I'll tell you that.
I do agree with dedication and working toward changing ourselves. I think that is a key thing for all of us.
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I had the thought that on the one hand, it is good to acknowledge when I'm making an excuse not to do what I need to do, and get past that. On the other, as I've read in so many posts here, there are lots of challenges (biological, psychological, emotional, etc.) that I've faced too, and thinking of the idea of the word "excuse," I mean it does seem to me like a concept I could use to psychologically thrash myself with. I don't know if anyone else has that reaction.
maybe it's the all or nothing nature that I feel connected to it. I mean, there are reasons, and excuses, right? I know it might sound like semantics, and weight loss takes such singlemindedness and dedication, it's hard not to want to sweep away all the chatter that makes it feel more complicated (and so possibly harder to do mentally).
This is a lesson I have yet to master personally, but lately I've found my stubborn side when my mind starts producing excuses and you know I kind of feel like I'm waging a battle within myself 24/7. That can be an emotional drain, but learning how to cope is a key thing with me.
I have medical and emotional issues. In a way the medical issues have created a wall I can never go back over because if I did it would make my health deteriorate at a fast pace. Can't have dairy, can't have certain types of meat (though I don't eat meat so I'm lucky in that respect to not have that struggle), can't have refined sugar... so for me those things help in a way. However, the emotional side is mostly where my battle is. That is where my dedication is, to heal inside and out. If that makes sense. Which is draining on some days, but other days when I say no to myself and get up and get going it does seem like those days are more fulfilling and fun. A new concept for me...
Last edited by Jacquie668; 07-29-2009 at 01:00 PM.
I can understand how someone would opt for WLS... I mean, as an emotional eater, eating itself is a "quick fix". It instantaneously makes you feel better (though the feeling doesn't last), and for some people losing weight, their new "fix" becomes that number on the scale. When that number ceases to budge, they lose that reward feeling, and it seems like what their doing doesn't work.
I find that healthy weight loss/maintainance requires a lot of mental strength and preparedness. If you keep trying to diet, but your attitude never changes, well... then of course nothing is ever going to work. You're just going to be constantly in search of your "fix"... on top of that, a lot of people losing weight seem to think that once their at their goal, most of their life problems will be solved. I had that attitude once, and when I did lose weight, and realized I wasn't any happier or any different (except physically), I just lost my drive.
Nowadays, it's just a matter of being healthy, learning to love myself as I am, and finding something that will work for the rest of my life.
Oh, and plus, I read a study recently that showed that people who had a positive perception of themselves tend to have lower BMIs (I wish i could find a link to that article). The reasoning is that when you feel good about yourself, you want to put healthy things in your body, and make better choices. So... yay for self love
Oh, and plus, I read a study recently that showed that people who had a positive perception of themselves tend to have lower BMIs (I wish i could find a link to that article). The reasoning is that when you feel good about yourself, you want to put healthy things in your body, and make better choices. So... yay for self love
*nods* I think the positive attitude and perceptions play an important role, speaking from me personally when I'm active (not exercising per say, but just active), watching what i'm eating to a point, and just living my life and feeling good...i have a lot of success. The thing is, I'm not "dieting" during those times. I'm really just living.
When I'm not positive and feeling negative, it is like a chain reaction. Boom boom boom, weight stall or gain. When I'm feeling good, I eat a lot, but it is all healthy, veggies veggies veggies. When I'm feeling bad about myself and wrestling I tend to crave carbs, especially when I'm hormonal. Heaving, comforting things like pasta...things like that. I don't feel good physically and I don't feel good emotionally.
Which is why I said that it is for me about healing from the inside out. Literally and emotionally. I'm sure a lot of people would agree with that.
Last edited by Jacquie668; 07-29-2009 at 01:10 PM.
Oh, and please all keep in mind that if there is a medical reason for weight gain, gastric bypass will not address the reason! The extra weight is simply a symptom of a problem in this case. You have to address the medical causes.
Cushing's Disease is caused by a tumor on the pituitary gland that is located in the brain. One of the symptoms is indeed unexplained weight gain (amongst other symptoms, such as typical fat deposits on the back of the neck and so on). WLS will NOT address the tumor. Medication (or excision surgery) addresses the tumor. And IF the person is indeed eating as they say they are, the weight will naturally come off because the extra hormones that the tumor produces will be kept in check through medication or as a result of excision surgery. WLS does NOT address the CAUSE of the weight, so if you have it, you may be thinner, but you'll still have a tumor that is producing too many hormones that needs to be addressed.
And if you think about it, IF a medical issue is causing the weight gain and the person is eating "normally", or in line with those with an average BMI and the medical issue is resolved, there is no reason why the person won't return naturally to a healthy weight. And it also seems to me that WLS would be contra-indicated in this case, as emotional/psychological reasons are not involved directly with the weight gain (meaning the extensive counselling involved with WLS candidates is not required) and neither is an abnormal intake nor the need to restrict the person's intake mechanically.
However, I suspect that in alot of cases, where people state they have unfindable medical issues for their weight gain (as the larger woman on Dr. Phil) OR they state that genetics are their problem OR they state that they eat normally but their body's don't lose weight, they are really in SERIOUS denial about their habits and intake. And I suspect that there are certain conditions which may make it EASIER to gain weight, but often these conditions are used as, well, an excuse for being large. I know, cause I've been there myself .
Oh, and please all keep in mind that if there is a medical reason for weight gain, gastric bypass will not address the reason! The extra weight is simply a symptom of a problem in this case. You have to address the medical causes.
Cushing's Disease is caused by a tumor on the pituitary gland that is located in the brain. One of the symptoms is indeed unexplained weight gain (amongst other symptoms, such as typical fat deposits on the back of the neck and so on). WLS will NOT address the tumor. Medication (or excision surgery) addresses the tumor. And IF the person is indeed eating as they say they are, the weight will naturally come off because the extra hormones that the tumor produces will be kept in check through medication or as a result of excision surgery. WLS does NOT address the CAUSE of the weight, so if you have it, you may be thinner, but you'll still have a tumor that is producing too many hormones...
Kira
That is what it was...I couldn't remember the name, TY
I think in the case that I read about the woman did not have WLS, she did have the procedure to remove the tumor, which was successful for her. Her weight started to return to normal because she did eat a healthy diet.
I think what struck a cord with me about her case and others like it is that she was told by medical professionals to 'eat right and exercise' and even had her on an even more strict diet than she was. Still she gained, but found the answer eventually, which I'm sure is a great relief in a way to be finally listened to and be diagnosed appropriately.
Added thought:
I agree that though there are people out there in denial, etc. I mean my family are genetically big, seriously, we gain weight easily, but I have to wonder is it really that we gain weight easily (maybe) or is it more about the food that we eat? I think there is a point when it stops being a genetic thing for my family and another point where it takes off being an eating problem, if that makes sense.
I mean I can't eat certain foods, now that I know what is wrong with me, I can adjust and even though it is hard to adjust at least I know what I need to do and where I need to go. I just struggle on the path like everyone else lol. However, if I continued to load of up on cheese and cakes and things that while I didn't eat huge amounts of, I ate enough to increase my weight gain over time, then that is my issue and not to be blamed on my genetics. My skin and allergy issues...okay yeah that is totally genetic. *CURSE YOU GENETICS* lol
Though we all are big boned in my family...and...we have big butts and hips. Thanks Mom and Dad! lol
Last edited by Jacquie668; 07-29-2009 at 03:38 PM.
I think we do place too much emphasis on personal responsibility. If diets are too hard for 95% of dieters to stick to, do they really work? A diet can't just work in a lab, it has to work in the context of our lifestyles. It just seems like we as a society keep butting our heads into the brick wall of dieting, when maybe we should be investigating a food supply that has been so robbed of nutrients by subsidies and monocultures that we have to eat a third more calories than a person living not even a hundred years ago to get the same amount of nutrients. Kaplods, I am certainly with you on thinking outside the culture box. Or as someone else posted, people who feel good about themselves tend to have lower bmi, so maybe the problem isn't just us individuals who can't stick to our diets, but also a society that makes women who deviate from the narrow beauty ideal (99% of us) feel bad themselves?
Diets work for most people, in the sense that most people who eat less than they burn will lose weight. IMO, diets do not work in the sense that most people are not able to balance their calories in real life so ideally. I just don't buy the argument that "I gave up; therefore I am the problem, not the diet." We like to think that with some willpower and self-control we can beat the diet odds, but we don't give credit to so many things that are out of our control. Somethings about weight loss are as out of our control (distance to healthy food, job loss, stress, illness, time, energy to name a few) as whether we can afford an expensive drug. If a drug was invented that cured the common cold, but was too expensive for people to produce/purchase on a large scale, sure, it cures the common cold, but I wouldn't really say it "works"--it doesn't cure people. That drug to me would be about as effective as "dieting".
I don't mean to sound harsh or down on ppl's WOE, many of us can control many of the myriad factors that influence what we put in our mouths. So I guess for me, it comes down to the difference between dieting as a solution to an individual's problems (maybe) and to society's problems (no).
I agree that though there are people out there in denial, etc. I mean my family are genetically big, seriously, we gain weight easily, but I have to wonder is it really that we gain weight easily (maybe) or is it more about the food that we eat? I think there is a point when it stops being a genetic thing for my family and another point where it takes off being an eating problem, if that makes sense.
There are certainly genetics. A child's weight correlates best with his/her biological parents over adoptive parents.
And the willingness to travel that road and stay the course.
I know, I know. I sound like a broken record. But I believe with all my heart, that is what it will always boil down to. WILLINGNESS.
So true Robin... I wish I would have found my willingness earlier, but hey I'm not complaining... I'm thrilled to have found my new found drive for success!
So true Robin... I wish I would have found my willingness earlier, but hey I'm not complaining... I'm thrilled to have found my new found drive for success!
You know for me, having traveled the road (& still a-travelin'), having hindsight clearly on my side - I can see that now. Crystal clear. All those 20+ years, I couldn't see it, or I should probably say I wouldn't see it. During that 20 year stretch, I believed my excuses were legitimate reasons. And now having "done it", I can see that that was nonsense. Nonsense. I was simply not willing to do what was necessary. But so often, during that time I really, really believed that I was not capable. How I wish someone one have sat me down and said - yes you CAN. You can do this. You've got the ability. There is no magic to this. It's not rocket science. It's not some hare-brained, far-fetched, crazy, outrageous, out of this world scheme. You just have to be willing to.......
And then I wonder, luckily not all that often, did I really know it the whole time????? And I think deep, deep, DEEP down - I may have. I may have known I was capable of it.... But I was not willing to do what was required.......
And then I wonder, luckily not all that often, did I really know it the whole time????? And I think deep, deep, DEEP down - I may have. I may have known I was capable of it.... But I was not willing to do what was required.......
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