It reminds me of the bible verse in which (I think it's Paul) bemoans the fact that he does not do the good he wants to do, and finds himself doing the bad he doesn't want to do (forgive the leeway with the extreme paraphasing here).

Regardless of religious beliefs, I think it illustrates how long humanity has had these struggles between desire and action. And the struggle has been a lot longer than the few thousand years documented in the Old and New Testaments.

This is my experience as well. So odd. Because I had ZERO doubts that I would get it done this time. Zero. So odd. I simply can't explain it. It was a blessing. A true blessing. I am sure of it.

I was going to comment on this. You have my favorite cat! I've always wanted a Devon Rex. Have you posted pics of her here?

Wow, you leave your computer for a couple days and such interesting things happen! This is a great discussion! Though I'm late to the party I have - as usual - to put my opinion in. :)

My OB/GYN, a tall, naturally thin woman told me - without asking any of my weight loss/gain history - that all I had to do to lose weight was "cut out a couple pieces of bread a day." She had no idea - and still doesn't - what sort of eating I do, or exercise. She once handed me a bunch of papers saying "here's what you need to do to lose weight." Reprints from a bunch of articles, many contradictory. Grrrr. And then when I did lost, no one word! No recognition that I'd done anything. And to digress, since I'm about to turn 64, she sends me a letter letting me know that on the day that I turn 65, she will no longer see me as a patient because I am eligible for medicare and she doesn't see medicare patients. Mind you, I'll still be working and covered by my employer's insurance. Double grrr! I'm shopping for a new OB/GYN.....

And as for starting slowly, remember a year or more ago when the government stated that we all needed to do 60-90 minutes of exercise 5 or 6 days a week? I know people, and we probably all do, who threw up their hands and stopped doing what exercise they were doing because they "couldn't do that much exercise." There was no "ease into it" built into the government's recommendation (which, you'll notice Midwife, is contradictory to your "too much exercise" advice from RealAge :lol: ).

I know from my own many tries at losing weight that I could not change everything in my life at once. Every time I tried to change my eating, my thinking, and my exercise levels, I lasted about 10 days. When I finally found my time, or click, or whatever you want to call it, I realized that if I eased into it, changed one aspect and when I was good with that, added another. I lost 30 lbs before I ever added deliberate exercise, but by then I was comfortable with my food changes, they were part of my life. I was ready to add another change.

And for all of you trying to help your cats lose weight, you have my sympathy. Dogs are easier. For one thing, most dogs eat when you feed them, as opposed to cats (or at least most of the ones I've had) eat a little now, a little later, grazing all day. The cats I have now - 2 siamese - are both normal weight. One is 18 months old, the other 11. The younger one is responsible for the older one getting more exercise. She pushes the older cat to play with her, and often the game is chase - from one end of the house to the other, up the stairs, down the stairs, over the furniture.

Anyway, thanks for the interesting, thought provoking reading. You all have great insight into this journey we're on. I'm so happy to have a place to discuss all this stuff - as opposed to real life where most people don't want to hear it.

Same here. I've always known. I've always done the research and looked things up and loved to cook and ... been interested in nutrition and all of that.

But 18 months or so ago it just ... happened. I started doing it. And I kept doing it. And then I got better at it. I don't know what switch flipped, but it did, and I'm awfully glad.

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Same for me, I had zero doubts this time. I have described it a few times as best as I can put it into words - I was electrified with purpose.

What a great thread :) I have agreed with so much of what you guys have written!

I agree that weight loss is both simple and complex. I have often said that losing this weight was the easiest and the hardest thing I have ever done - at the same time.

I think almost everyone knows that an apple is a good snack. It's actually having a nice, crisp, fresh apple handy when you need a snack that's the tricky part (in my experience). Simple...yet hard.

I've been kinda absent from the boards (and my strict maintenance lifestyle) since my step dad died before Thanksgiving. I just got back from another trip to Texas (helloooo pralines) and my frig/cupboards are stocked with my "usuals" - it's back to normal eating-wise around here. My jeans still fit :)

PS - I am a 90% whole grain/brown rice person. I always try to do the best I can - if a "healthier" choice is available, I go for it. If not, well, a little white rice in a california roll is not why I was an overweight person.

I nominate this as the best thread for 2008...and 2009! heh :)

OK, I'll amend what I said to be that many people know or have the ability to learn but choose not to.

Add me to the list of those who had an "a-ha" moment when it comes to weight loss, and suddenly things just seemed to fall into place. I finally "got" that if I wanted to lose weight, I had to change my habits. I always think of what Einstein said (I don't know the exact quote so I'm not even going to try) about doing the exact same thing every day and expecting different results.

I also "got" that exercise was going to be hard, but I had to keep at it (I'd give up in the past) and it would get easier in time...which then meant that it was time to find something more challenging! I don't get to the point that I feel like I'm having a heart attack, but I do realize that I have to get out of the comfort zone and challenge my body.

I also "got" that I was going to have to change my eating habits, while still allowing myself treats. People ask me all the time how I lost weight, and I do mention that I allow treats once in a while, and stress that a treat is not an every day thing.

I think most people logically know that to lose weight you need to consume less calories and exercise more, but it is hard to put into practice. People sometimes "want" to believe things and convince themselves that something can be true, which is the reason that easy weight loss "solutions" sell so well. I was talking to a co-worker of mine who was going on and on about how she couldn't lose weight, so I tried gently telling her that a lot of the snacks she chooses are high in calories. She mentioned that she doesn't eat like that at home. :?: I wondered what difference it made where you ate it, the main thing is that you ate it. I'm not talking about someone who treats herself occasionally to this snack food, but someone who eats it (and other high-calorie snacks) quite often. To me that's like someone only counting the beers they drink at a bar during the course of an evening, and discounting the ones they drink at home beforehand before getting behind the wheel of car. What difference does it make if you drank ten beers at one, two, or three different places in one evening?

I try to keep my mouth shut about weight loss at work. I know a lot of people say they want to lose weight, but for some reason or other, may not be ready to try. I'm not being insulting to anyone...I was 35 when I had this "a-ha" moment, so I was like this too. I tried to lose weight before, but for some reason, I was able to stick to this new way of life a lot longer than in the past (almost two years now) and I don't feel like I'm on a diet, I just feel like I'm living life differently. And as far as "enjoying life" too much to give up foods they like, I used to think like this too...but life is so much more enjoyable now, because unlike three years ago, food isn't the only thing in life that gives me pleasure.

I lost +-50 pounds a little over ten years ago, and maintained the same Size I currently am (Size 4) for the four years prior to my first child being born...but it was a lot harder work last time, because I did not have as much great information as I had this time around...no 3FC. I ate way too few calories, worked out too hard, got too thin for a while, my skin was bad, I got anemic, my nutrition was pretty bad, etc. While I got better at the eating and I learned to regulate my exercise better and allowed myself to go from a Size 0/2 with 17% body fat to a Size 4 with a little over 19% body fat, so that, for most of the maintenance period, I was fairly healthy, the "loss" part of the process was pretty much **** on earth.

So for the last few years, I kept remembering that process and thinking there was NO FREAKIN' WAY that with three small children now, and a lot more responsibilities than I had back then, that I could work out two hours a day and eat 1200 calories or less and deal with feeling tired all the time and having bad skin, etc. -- I just couldn't face it. So I did pretty much nothing about it...and then one day a lightening bolt hit me, and I suddenly said, well then DON'T work out two hours a day and don't only eat 1200 calories...work out MORE than you do now and eat A LOT less (Hey, my mantra is back...eat less, move more :))...and so I started by walking and journaling my food, and in my first month I lost only 3 pounds, but I lost, and then I spent the next month pushing WAY to hard, because that is who I am I think, and I lost 15 pounds, but it sucked rocks and I almost quit, but the next month I found my happy medium and a couple of weeks later I found 3FC...and here I am.

It was a journey, and I guess I did "know" what to do before I started it, but it didn't mean I really knew. To really know, I apparently had to walk the path for a while first...and my previous experience made it really hard to get on the path in the first place. And we ALL have past experiences, dieting myths we believe and previous failed diets, etc. but you have to give that history up, or put it behind you at least, or I don't think success is possible.

Edit: Recidivist -- I just noticed your post about my Devon. I'll see if I can dig up some pictures of her to post.

People actually *say* this?! :crazy:

I love the devon rex!! they are beautiful! I have 3 sphynx cats. Also known as hairless cats. they are WONDERFUL!! i have a pic on my profile and some on my blog. two are a healthy weight, but one has some over eating issues ;)
I think this thread should be given the best thread award!! I dont have much to add that hasn't already been said. Just that i am thankful every day that i finally "got it" and i also JUST KNOW somehow that i will reach my goal this year, no if, ands or buts about it. And I cant explain how or why. Just glad that it happened. Thank you all for such wonderful insight.

This is such a great thread because it's one of my biggest gripes.

I have a good friend who's got everything under control. She has no problem with will power, she has complete self-motivation to do anything she wants and totally doesn't understand what it's like to not be able to get myself out of bed in the morning sometimes. She has no idea what it's like to be completely depressed (clinically). I mentioned the other day that I'm trying to lose weight and her response was to tell me to eat more natural foods because all that work makes me want to cook smaller amounts. And when I told her I wanted to work out more she said "30 minutes a day, 3 days a week" and when told her I know what I'm supposed to do for exercise her response was "then do it"... I couldn't even respond.

Some of us have very basic, huge obstacles to overcome. Depression is a huge obstacle to losing weight and being healthy. It's a long road to a lifestyle change, it's not like I can just get up one morning and completely overhaul my life in one fell swoop. Yea, we know what we're supposed to do to lose weight - we all get weight loss tips shoved down our throats every. single. day. It's like, you're not telling me anything I didn't already know.

Re: Eat food, mostly plants, not too much -

You probably need a little context if you've never heard it before. The "Eat food" part has to do with avoiding processed, convenience foods and "food products" - like artificial sweeteners, things like the margarine that was all the rage before trans fats were outed, nonfat everything with the fat replaced by sugar and weird thickeners, and so on. In other words, just eat "real" food, stuff your great-great grandmother would have recognized not been mystified by.

"mostly plants" and "not too much" are probably more self-explanatory.

Also, one of the lead in sentences to Michael Pollan's book In Defense of Food. :) It's been quoted a lot in a lot of news stories, magazines, reviews, etc. So it's not just a random saying ... it actually has a literary context that it's drawn from.

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I totally understand and sympathize with this, but I also want to point it out from the other side. My husband is clinically depressed and has been most of his adult life. He takes meds for it, but as I'm sure you know, there are still obstacles to face.

After a while, though, as the person on the other end, it's gets really frustrating and tiring and ultimately annoying hearing your friend or spouse say "I want to work out more" or "I want to lose weight" and KNOW that they know what they should be doing and yet they're not doing it. After a while there truly is nothing else you can say to them except ... well, then just do it.

And yeah, it might come across a little .. harsh maybe? But I suspect there might be an element of frustration there on the other end. I know when I say things like that, it's almost always borne from months (or even years) of listening to my husband talk and talk and talk about doing something but never doing it. And finally it's just "do it or don't do it but for god's sake shut up about it." ;)

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Personally, I know what you mean about wanting someone to... what's the phrase? "Sh** or get off the pot"

The thing that bothered me this time was that I can't remember the last time I talked to her about wanting to exercise. I take her advice/tips about healthy eating (she recommended eating oatmeal, which I tried for awhile but the oatmeal was too bland, even with brown sugar), but I've never before talked to her about working out - I either did it or I didn't. So this was a one-time thing and that was her reaction.

But yea, if I complained about wanting to work out every time I talked to her, I wouldn't blame her for telling me to shut up and do it. I try not to beat dead horses.

That's why I never talked to anyone about wanting to lose weight. Until I was *doing* it. Even then, I just let people notice on their own.

Gotcha. :)

BTW, about the oatmeal - don't know if you're interested in trying it again, but I really dislike sweet things in the mornings. I eat my oatmeal with some shredded sharp cheddar, salt, pepper, and sometimes a dash of hot sauce. It's really yummy that way. :)

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I went to a Christmas party at my aunt's house a couple of weeks ago and I hadn't seen her since last Christmas. She has been struggling with her weight for years - actually got a tummy tuck a few years ago and then gained it all back and more... I was told at my highest weight that I looked like her - I realize now that my actual build and bone structure is nothing like hers, I was just covering mine up... :)

She looked at me and said "you look great, you are half the size you were, how did you do it?" I said "Changed my diet, exercise a lot". Her answer "no, really, how did you do it?" My response again "Changed my diet, exercise a lot". It went back and forth two more times with the same question and answer. I don't know what other answer she was looking for. I added in some variations - eat less junk food, exercise five - six days per week, she still never really accepted it. Then, for the rest of the party she made comments about wanting to lose weight, wanting to look like Shan, etc. Before I left I told her that she had to stop talking about it and actually do it, that I had heard her talk about making changes for years with no follow through. That it was hard to make the changes that were needed, but talking about it wasn't going to do it. I think I hurt her feelings. By that point I was feeling pretty frustrated about her 'no, really, what else did you do?' mantra all evening. I guess she was looking for the previously mentioned magic pill answer from me! :)

That sounds good. I'll have to try that. I was going to suggest if she likes it sweet, she should add some spices like cinnamon, or pumpkin pie spice. I'm like you, and don't want the sweet flavor. I use a tsp of butter and a dash of salt.

It's funny, I just never seem to hear that magic pill thing from people. They don't like that I did it just with eating better and exercising, because that sounds hard, but they believe it.

Of the loads of people who ask how I lost the weight, they fall into a couple of categories.

The ones that start off with, "I bet you workout a real lot" or something like that. Meaning that they think it's exercise that they're lacking and could never exercise "as much as Robin does". It is easier for them to accept that, then to think that they're doing the "food" part wrong.

On the other hand, many people will ask how I lost the weight and start off with, "I bet you starve yoursefl". They're the ones who would prefer to think that exercise is not as important a factor and think, "Well Robin just doesn't eat, of course I could lose weight if I would just starve myself as well. But who wants to do that?"

Then of course there's the ones who say neither. Not sure what they're thinking. They just may very well be the ones hoping that there was a magical pill that did it.

It's interesting you mention that because for me in my HEAD I have no doubt whatsoever that this CAN be done, that I can lose the weight (especially now that my endo and I are working towards getting my hormones balance which is half the battle with my weight loss since my excessive weight gain was partially due to hormonal imbalances), but the problem for me is letting go of the doubts and fears within my heart. For some reason I have this disconnect between knowing and believing in my heart what I do in my head. What is "known" in the head is what lacks in the heart and vice versa. But I think the important thing for me this time around is that I recognize it and I'm working to mend that disconnect as I go along this journey because I think if I can constantly show myself whatever it is I believe or know in my head, that one day I'll actually start to see it with my heart and I'll believe it in my heart or I'll be able to start letting go of whatever I need to (the doubt the fear) and just maybe I'll finally have a head and heart that co-exists in harmony. I'll be honest that everday that this is scary for me emotionally because of what the fat has meant for all of these years, but I believe that if I can change my thought patterns and reinforce the good that I will begin to see it in my heart. I guess it's the principle of the laws of attraction discussed in the documentary "The Secret" and the book "You can heal your life" by Louise L. Hay that basically you attract the experiences in your life by what you think and your positive or negative thought processes. When I have concentrated on this principle it had worked in the past for me, so I'm just hoping that it can do it this time around too.

How about we throw in still another four-word one-liner :
" Eat Less ~Enjoy More ! "

Great thread. I'm just waiting for that moment where my brain will grab hold of resolution, like many of you describe happening. I think there is just a sheer film of residual doubt, from old and worn-out thinking patterns, but at this point, I feel that any moment that shift will take place, and I will be 'electrified with purpose'. Thanks everyone !

One of the things that I think got me started down this finally successful weight loss path is realizing that this wasn't an all or nothing endeavor. I think really we've been conditioned to believe that only getting off every ounce of weight "counts" at all (not only for vanity, but for health too). That if you've got 250 lbs to lose (or even 50) that there's no reason to lose "just" 10 lbs. So people think I can't see myself losing the ___ number of lbs. that I "need" to, so why bother starting.

So, if you can't see yourself losing x lbs, can you see yourself losing 10? If not, how about five? Two?

It was really something my neurologist said (although I'd also been reading it in magazines) that studies were showing that even a reduction in body weight by only 10% resulted in significant health improvements. I'd never had a doctor ever suggest to me that I only try to lose part of the weight I had to lose.

The big picture is intimidating, and it isn't often suggested that a person not worry about the weight they can't see themselves losing, but only start with the weight that they're confident they can conquer. Heck even if it is only 5 lbs out of the fifty - maintain that 5 until you think you can go for 10. But 9 times out of 10, I think that once a person reaches the "easily doable" goal, the more likely they'll be ready to keep going.

I think this really does apply to everyone. Now everyone will have a different number in mind of what they're confident they can achieve. Some people may have no doubt, from the beginning that they can reach their goal weight. Those were are less optimistic can definitely find a number they can feel confident about (who doesn't think they can lose one lb and maintain it?)

That may be my best advice to anyone in the future. Can you lose one lb and maintain it?

No doubt the answer would be "what good would losing one lb do?"

"It gets you halfway to 2 lbs"


"One foot in front of the other..."

I know what you're saying here. Sometimes I think you have to choose to do the "act as if" thing, and trust that in time your heart will catch up. I've had "faith" and "grace" on my mind a lot lately, and I think it applies here. Not as religious concepts, but as spiritual concepts. I'm beginning to have faith that if I make certain choices, I will get what I'm supposed to get. That it's not always for me to try to *achieve* A, B or C - It's for me to put myself on the road. That there are some things you receive, not achieve.

Excellent modification :)

Good point Julie! I think for some people losing the weight is a very spiritual thing since to me the spirit and emotion are great players in what leads people to put on weight and then also in their weight loss journey. I also believe they work in tandem with your attitude, which I believe is everything when you are to work towards your goals you have in life, whether it's weight related or not. It's interesting how you mention things you receive rather than achieving because I once read a quote that said "Work on being and not having, for with what you are, you will have." I think that sums up your idea pretty well because if you are full of faith and grace and belief in yourself for what you aim to achieve then you will eventually get there and achieve it because of who are you and what you believe and not to worry too much about the achievement itself. Or at least thats my take on it.

Boy this thread has been quite an exciting read!

This is odd. Because this is exactly how I felt when I began that April day seemingly a lifetime ago.

It was if I had finally made a decision. And once I made the decision that was it. There was no more option. There still isn't an option. It's one direction (even if there are a few pitstops along the way).

There's that saying "hindsight is 20/20", but this is the one time in my life I feel I can see 20/20 going into the future. I not only see it, but I know it. Down to my core.

I do love this discussion. I think we all are on different roads, some of us the path is winding or even a bit backtracking, some of us are on the straight arrow's path. Some of us find the roads we have chosen or were forced to take to be more or less rockier than others, with varying degrees of obstacles in our way. Some of us are traveling at, above, or below the "average" speed limit (whatever that is, and since it's never really posted, none of us know what it its, anyway). Some of us have different destinations in mind, and some of us share fairly similar goals.

What I love about 3FC isn't that we're on a shared journey per se (because some of our journeys are very, very different from one anothers'), but what IS important is that we're all fellow travelers, and there's a kinship in that, that is hard to define, but very precious to me, nonetheless.

I wish I could be this positive, but this is exactly how I felt three years ago when I lost 70 lbs and kept it off almost a year. This time I will have to be on maintenance at least 3-5 years before I believe I'm really going to stick with it.

/signed.

Fellow travelers. I like that. :) I'll have to wave out of the back of my car and see how many fellow travelers wave back! :wave:

OMG. That's also EXACTLY what I say. I've even said it here, dozens of time.
I made the decision to lose the weight - once and for all. Just realized that I didn't have to be fat if I didn't want to be. And I decided that I was going to lose the weight (and keep it off). And I was relieved. I was excited and relieved. Because I knew, having made that decision that the end of my misery was nearing. I had never felt that way before about it. Not even close.

I don't think that this time for me, started out with the kind of confidence that I had in earlier attemps. Every time was the "last time," and determination (or was it maybe arrogance), actually worked against me.

I've always done well in everything I tried, except weight loss. I was stumped as to how graduate school and working several jobs were easy compared to weight loss. I just didn't understand why determination wasn't working in weight loss, why wasn't it like everything else in my life.

I think what first gave me a glimmer of hope was accidentally losing about 20 lbs after having to quit my job for health issues and using a CPAP at night for sleep apnea (the pulmonologist said I might lose some weight without trying just by getting better sleep - I don't know if it was the better sleep or not eating out of the vending machine at work that was responsible - I think both).

I have never, never, never lost weight accidentally before. I think it made me realize that small changes could make big differences. It took another three years after the accidental weight losss to find a food plan that works for me. If anything, I have a lot less motivation and determination than ever before, and it shows in my weight loss. It's been slow and sporadic (but I haven't backtracked more than a few pounds of normal fluctuation). I think for me, I decided that I might not be able to lose much more weight than I have already, but I could keep off what I have lost.

This year, I want to put more focus onto weight loss to get off more than the 40 lbs that I lost last year - or at least match last year's 40 lbs.

It is interesting, I think that even the attitudes of those being successful at weight loss are different. There are those who needed confidence for it to work, and there are others like me who needed humility. There are those who needed determination, and others who like me had to learn to work smarter, not harder (Determination often got me into eating disordered and unsustainable habits).

It really is a wonder that there are so few researchers trying to study the differences between overweight dieters, instead of trying to find a one-size-fits-all program that works for everyone. I think, like headaches, overweight isn't a symptom of one disorder (physical, mental, emotional, or social), but of several. And that treatments that work on all dieters are going to be as impossible as treatments that are effective (and beneficial, not just putting a bandaid over a gaping chest wound) for all headaches (whether caused by migraines or brain tumor? Not likely).

From dictionary.com:

ar⋅ro⋅gance   /ˈærəgəns/ [ar-uh-guhns] –noun

offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.


I really can't say that I heard arrogance in anyone who posted (myself included) that they were CERTAIN in the fact that they were going to lose the weight "this time". I'm sorry if it came off that way. Like I said, it's really something that was hard to explain.

I was only speaking of MY arrogance. I wasn't ascribing the state to anyone but myself. And I meant it, as in cockiness or overconfidence- the pride that comes before a fall, so to speak - And again only talking about myself, not anyone else.

I was more pointing out how people's weight loss experience can be VERY different, and the very thing that can keep someone from success, may be someone else's secret to success.

I agree with Kaplods...that's exactly how I felt last time. I was so overjoyed at my new body and health I thought I will NEVER gain the weight back again. But I did. My overconfidence was just a state of mind...not reality. And maybe it was the overconfidence or cockiness that defeated me...because I stopped being so wary.

I understand what you're saying. I just wanted to apologize if it came off to any one in that way (the sense of superiority or self importance), and therefore was offensive, as that was not my intention.

Thank for the concern, but I definitely didn't get that from your post or anyone else's. That's why this thread has been so fun, there's been little to no judgement on what works for one person, that would have had the exact opposite effect for someone else.

So often on other boards, and in reality I get this vibe from some folks of "you're doing it WRONG because you're not doing it the way I did it."

Colleen, I know where you are coming from. It amazes me how many 3FC are VERY successful in other areas of their lives. Weight loss was the only real area in my life where I felt like a failure.

I finally realized that I had to make it a priority and devote time and attention to it - to treat it like any other "project" in my life. Plan, execute, evaluate, repeat.