Growl....snarl....ruff...ruff...grrrrrrr You wanna come get the kiddos so I dont bite? ;)

Hi Claire!

SURE! But keep in mind they will come back spoiled rotten! ;)

DEAL!

:woohoo: Hey ANG! the kids are coming...the kids are coming! :woohoo:

Interesting topic.

Eat less, move more, repeat. That is the KISS principle/solution.

However it's not always that simple.

My DH is one of those skinny guys who could have the worst diet in the world, but as long as he's working doesn't gain an ounce. Me on the other hand, can't do that.

My mother has spent most of her adult life being morbidly obese. She has lost weight, with WW and a few years ago when she was diagnosed as non insulin dependent diabetic she lost weight. She was actually starting to look good. But, she has this mental thing, she just can't live without that pshycological fat. For some reason her fat is her insulation from the world. She got all the way down to a size 18 and my sisters and I were so proud of her, but it freaked her out! She could see her collar bone, and her hands were just so bony and on and on. Needless to say, she gained back about 75 pounds. I did see at Christmas, she's lost some again, but she doesn't look good. I think the lifetime of obesity is finally taking it's toll.

And since I'm in the mood to make a long post.....I work for a veterinarian and we deal with "fat" pets all the time. Older dogs, overweight, arthritis, etc. When we tell owners dog/cat needs to lose weight. Owners freak out.

OMG, feed the dog/cat less?!?! Actually take the pet for a daily walk? We CAN'T do that! Well ok, then spend the money for the pain meds. OMG! That stuff is expensive! Yeah, it is.

Because of my mothers struggles, my sisters and I try very hard to keep our weight and diet reasonable. We don't want to be diabetic, have gall bladder surgery, heart surgery, like Mom. It's not an easy task. We all struggle, we talk to each other, and thankfully, even thought we don't do it all the way it should be done, we are doing better than Mom.

For those of us who struggle with our weight and food issues, I really feel it is no different than those who battle alcohol, drugs, depression, and many other issues.

It can be made to seem simple, but it really isn't.

Anyway, thanks for listening!

Janelle - keep in mind that some pet owners (and, I'd suspect, people) do everything "right" and their pets don't lose weight. Just as some people need unconventional approaches or lose slower than others, so do some cats/dogs!

Says the girl whose cat was on diet food per the vet's explicit instruction, with NO extra food, no treats, for three years, and gained 2 lbs. Just saying that sometimes the owners really DO try.

lol mandalinn!! I have an obese cat too ;)
i just want to say that i thoroughly enjoyed reading this post!!

_______________________________________________

mandalinn,

Just wanted to say, that "you told me so," when I talked about putting the fat cat we adopted onto a diet. We did assume that the previous owner had been feeding her a lot of junk (since she knew what french fries were and has an obsession for all things potato).

ChubChub did lose almost 2 lbs very quickly on a low calorie food and very low calorie treats, like bonito flakes (the entire jar which lasted for months, has maybe 25 calories, because the fish is shaved so thin. Each "treat" was like a tiny piece of fish-flavored tissue paper). Because she has arthritis, we also give her a daily glucosamine/chondroitin treat.

While the 2 lbs came off very quickly, she gained back about a half a pound for no apparent reason, except perhaps winter. Like my husband and I, winter slows us down a bit because of increased joint and muscle pain, and it seems to do the same for ChubChub. Once it started getting cold outside (even though the temperature hasn't changed all that much in the house), she had more difficulty moving around, and wanted to sleep more.

The less we feed ChubChub, the more she sleeps and the harder it is to get her to play. I think that's true for me too, because if I eat too few calories, I'm exhausted all of the time, and can barely stay awake.


I know our vet assumed we were overfeeding our last cat KeeKee. She wasn't very overweight, as she was only 8 lbs, but the vet wanted her to lose 3/4 to 1 lb. I think the vet assumed that because we were fat, she had to nip any tendency to overfeed in the bud. But when KeeKee got suddenly very ill and we had to take her in to the vet (we learned she was in cardiac arrest, and she died the next day), after the xrays, the vet (a different woman in the same practice) told us that the cat wasn't overweight at all, she was actually a bit underweight, but had been retaining fluid because of the heart defect she probably had all of her life.

Maybe if we were thin, when we told the first vet "but she hardly eats," she would have believed us and maybe even would have found the heart defect - or maybe she still would have assumed that she just was seeing a mildly overweight cat. The second vet did say that cats hide cardiac and many other health problems very well, because unlike dogs, cats rarely overexert themselves. When they're not feeling well, they might rest more but otherwise don't change their behavior much.

The best thing you can do to help a cat is to play with it, get it to do some activity. Even if they only lay on the floor and bat at a cat toy, it helps them. They're not animals that need to exercise except in bursts, but they do benefit from those bursts now and then.

And so now I've added the "move more" part of the saying! :p :lol:

BTW, both cats and people can experience weight gain as the weather gets colder. This is an adaptation to winter survival, and it's not just for bears... ;)

Jay

Heh. One thing that's helped our cat is having another cat move in next door. The racing from window to window ... and up and down the stairs ... as she frantically tries to watch "her territory" is not only amusing, it's helped her drop 1/2 lb in the last couple of months.

.

Ahhh, that's what's missing from my routine. Someone chasing me around my apartment. ;) Sorry, I blame it on my cold. :dizzy:

The only way to get our cat to exercise, IS to play with her. Otherwise, most of the day, she lays in a heap on the floor on her back, with her front legs tucked up on her chest and her back legs spread out quite shamelessly (in the middle of the floor of course, so you get exercise stepping over her). She looks like an otter (when they float on their backs) so we sometimes call her otter cat or otter girl. If you call her, she doesn't even get up, she'll turn her head in your direction. She even watches tv like this (yes, she watches tv, though I don't know what she sees), and in fact will lie facing away from the tv, tilting her head backwards to watch (I think because it requires less effort. To see over her belly facing the tv, she would have to lift her head higher in a bit of a "crunch" move to see the tv). That she doesn't mind watching upside down makes me think that she sees movement, not the actual picture.

But, when we first got her she ignored toys completely not only if they were lying on the floor, but if we tried to get her to play (even feathers on a string, which I've never known a cat to be able to resist) and she would ignore it, and I swear shoot us a "you've GOT to be kidding," look. She wouldn't even respond to moving hands under a blanket. She would take no interest, or at best look mildly interested, but wouldn't actually move (she was totally Gargfield).

In fact, she wouldn't move from the center of the floor if you walked up to her. She'd lay there expecting you to step over her, and if you nudged her with your foot to move, she'd growl (not just a crabby meow, and actual growl), and you actually had to push her with her foot to get her to move.


After she lost a little weight, she was a lot more interested in playing, and in toys. Although her "favorite" toy, is the stuffed catnip toy she came home with. There's an elderly lady that makes them and donates them to the humane society. The toys about 8 inches long and 2 inches in diameter, so it's a pretty big toy, but she doesn't really "bat" it, she carries it like a very oddly shaped kitten, and sleeps hugging it, so we call it "dolly." So we still have to play with her to get most of her exercise in, but if we restrict her calories too far, (or on days like today when the weather is bad and she seems to be aching), she reverts to looking at us like we're crazy when we try to get her to play.

She does love batting plastic soda bottle caps, so we leave a few on the floor, because it's the only "toy" she'll really play with herself (at least until shiny mousy entered the house). The bank gave us a "free" cat toy of a tiny red sequinned mouse, and we thought she'd ignore it, but she loves it - I think because it's red like the bottle caps and shiny. If spends more than 10 seconds with either the bottle caps or shiny mousy, we know she's feeling really good.

We brought her a fat stuffed gray lamb I found in Bath and Body Works for $2 after Christmas. It's bigger than toys most cats play with, but we rubbed some organic catnip (from a gourmet shop we shopped in the same day we bought lambie) into the lamb's fleece. It's only a little bit bigger than dolly, and dolly is getting a bit ratty, so we were hoping we could transfer her attention from dolly to lambie (but as with substituting anyone's favorite teddy, the replacement is never the same).

Hi, I may be the only dissenter here- but I eat a lot more-
A lot more vegetables, a lot more salads, a lot more yogurt and berries, just a lot more of foods with volume and not a lot of calories. I can eat a half cup of ice cream and then go back to finish the pint. Or, I can eat a plateful of salad with tuna and pickles, and be full for hours.
When I was eating a lot less food, it was a LOT more calories and it seemed as if I was always hungry. Besides not feeling as energetic.
So sometimes, it would be "eat a lot more-with better choices".
:)

Eightc -- that is a really good point. I make salads that are the size of serving bowls these days. I think I'll change my mantra to "Eat less CALORIES, move more"

Our cat is 16, she NEVER moves anymore. My husband keeps wondering if she ever goes to the bathroom...since I clean the box, I know she does... She will still, however, get up and even be bouncy for one of those little laser pointers (Not the real ones, just a mini flashlight so it cannot harm her...) that makes a little light for her to chase around the floor. Unfortunately, she is going blind, apparently, in both eyes from detachment of her retinas. We might never have known this, as cats are SO good at adjusting to loss of eye sight, except we moved the furniture for Christmas and she bumped head on into the legs of one of our chairs. While she can still see well enough to to see the light, she cannot see it as well as she used to. She, however, is a Devon Rex and weighs about 5 lbs. so being overweight has never been an issue for her... As our dog is 10 and is going deaf, I live in an interesting world of geriatric pets with disabilities.

I dont think it is necessarliy eat less, move more but Choose healthy, move more.

I didn't mean to threadjack! Poor Bob. The only exercise he's gotten lately was when we had dogs visiting the weekend after Christmas...and he panicked so much that he DID run. Of course, he also went completely out of control and ripped off two of his claws at the base.

Normally, he'll only play with toys if they are -right- on him. Like if you put the laser pointer one inch in front of his paw, he'll lift the paw and smack it. Otherwise, he just looks at it, as if he's saying "Interesting. Perhaps if it was closer I'd consider tapping it lightly with my paw".

I actually think I eat more VOLUME also. But fewer calories. Perhaps I should make the distinction!

Great point! I eat an enormous VOLUME of food. But of course they are nutritionally sound and most importantly, low in calories. I eat my salad out of a serving bowl. I very often eat an entire head of cauliflower at a time. And I eat frequently.

But I think we may be talking semantics here. I believe the term, "eat less", really does mean to consume LESS calories. And I'm thinking it pretty much wasn't meant to mean just eat somewhat less ice cream or somewhat less cake in order to lose weight. But that it means to eat healthy. Oh who am I kidding. I don't know what it was meant to "mean". :dunno:

Something I've noticed amongst the maintainers here is that all of you, without an exception (that I can think of), eat not just fewer calories than you did before you lost/maintained weight, but a much higher quality of food. To a woman/man, you all seem to espouse a whole-foods-focused diet with little processed or junk stuff.

But when I look at many of the beginning losers, especially those starting out on calorie-counting, there are a lot of people who are eating 1200 to 1500 calories per day of, well...stuff that's not all that nutritionally sound.

So yeah, I do think there's a common conception out there that the "eat less" part means "eat the same stuff you were eating before, only in smaller portions." And while that clearly works at first, I don't think in the long run it works. If it DID work, we'd see maintainers who were still eating like that; but none of you are, I'm prety sure. I think the concept of "eat the same stuff but less" actually ends up in people getting frustrated and abandoning their efforts, because they are hungry and their bodies are not getting the necessary nutrition.

Warmaiden, I think that is a good point. I've only been maintaining a month, but when I look at food now, I am hunting for nutrient rich and unprocessed. While I have always been an organic produce kind of person, now I am also a local produce, whole grains, good fats kind of person. I don't eat anything, if I can help it, without reading the label first...to see what I'm putting in my body. It is a complete change in how I look at food...not just does it taste good, but is it WORTH eating.

While I have had a slice of veggie pizza -- it is a once a month kind of thing, and it is from a pizzaria that uses all organic ingredients and whole wheat flour in their crust. Even the ham I had for Christmas, while for a special occasion, I bought at a local coop. It had no preservatives in it and it was a spiral cut ham, on the bone, so it was not one of those "squished together, who knows what part of the animal you are eating, hams."

I like to eat volume, it makes me feel full, and I like to eat nutrition that I know makes my body feel like it is getting what it needs...you aren't going to get that eating "less" ice cream or "less" McDonald's french fries or "less" saltine crackers -- even if you eat under your calories everyday. I want my weight loss and my renewed energy to be a forever thing, and eventually, if you constantly feed your body french fries -- even if it is less of them, your body will still be begging you for real food with some nutrition in it...in essence making you feel hungry...and you are going to eat a few more french fries to try and satisfy it, unless you learn to choose better options.

In Weight Watcher's and TOPS groups, I met people who not only hated nearly all veggies, but some didn't like any fruit either. Now telling them that eating less, or eating healthy means a salad at every meal, and eating mostly fruits and vegetables - well, it's going to freak them out - so they perhaps shouldn't start there. Eating less and eating healthier might mean eating less icecream and cake (at least at first). I think that slow and gradual changes would work for a lot of yoyoers or diet-phobic folks, but people want fast results and you can't get fast results on gradual changes (Heck, often you can't get fast results on extreme changes). Our impatience (and the way in which most of us have been taught to "diet") gets in the way.

I was watching a show on "the mermaid girl" and after before her kidney transplant she was underweight and not eating, and afterward the prednisone and feeling better made her hungry and she became overweight. Although she was only 8, and still growing her doctor gave her advice that is great for anyone of any age (at least to start) "I'm not going to tell you what you can't eat, but I want you to include at least 5 servings of fruits and vegetables."

That doesn't necessarily work well for weight loss, if you eat the fruits and veggies on top of what you're normally eating, but if you're eating no low-calorie foods, eating more (volume) can result in you eating less (in calories) without hardly realizing it. It may not get you to your goal weight, but it certainly can be a good start.

I think it's a great way for many folks to start a weight loss plan, especially the "junk food junkies," because it's less intimidationg (even if not all that logical on the surface). Don't eat less - eat more (of these foods....).

I had a doctor tell me this in my twenties, and I thought he was nuts, but I did lose weight just by not counting anything and the only change being to to add servings of fruits and vegetables (and as he suggested eating 3 servings of veggies for every one serving of fruit). Now, if I had only 10 lbs to lose, maybe this wouldn't have worked so well, and as I've found that I can overeat fruits and vegetables, it wasn't enough for me in the long term. However, if I hadn't let graduate school while working full time lure me back into "grab and go" eating, it could have been a very good start.

I think we often believe that we have to make all of our changes from the beginning. People who are a hundred pounds overweight, try to put in an hour on the treadmill, get exhausted after three minutes and think that it's "useless" because they "can't exercise." If all you can do is three minutes, then start with three minutes. If you hate all vegetables, but green beans - then eat TONS of green beans and keep trying other veggies. If you hate veggies unless they're drowned in rich sauces like butter, cheese, gravy, or ranch dressing, then eat them drowning in butter, cheese, gravy or ranch dressing and gradually cut back on the quantity or richness of the sauce until you do like them naked.

When I made the switch from regular soda to diet (at about age 10), my parents were buying regular soda for my skinny dad and brother, and diet for mom and me. I hated the diet soda, but my parents would let me mix regular and diet at first. So at first I was drinking 3/4 regular and 1/4 diet, then 50/50, 25/75, and finally 100% diet.

I've been doing the same now that I'm switching from Crystal Light to plain water - I'm adding more water than "called for" to the packets. It's not a calorie savings, and I'm not overly worried about Crystal Light, so I'm doing it more for economic than health/weight reasons (hubby and I are both on Medicare and Medicare costs, probably like many people's insurance costs, are going WAY up for 2009. It looks like our medication costs arre going to gradruple or more and our health care coverage is going to nearly double).

I think we often judge folks pretty harshly for not being motivated enough to make a lot of overnight changes, chiding them for just not being motivated enough, when I think a lot of people would find more motivation by just making a few tiny changes and experiencing success. A lot of people do have a sort of learned helplessness when it comes to weight loss. The only way they've ever tried to lose weight is to make humongous overnight changes that then become overwhelmied. The "classic" diet approach really for many folks sets them up for failure.

I know my New Year's resolutions for many of my 36 dieting years went something like

1. Eat 1200 calories every day
2. Log every bite
3. Drink 12 glasses of water
4. Exercise (sweating and breathing hard the entire time) for an hour 5 to 7 days per week
5. Never eat off plan (which usually meant a huge list of "forbidden" foods)
6. Eat 5 servings or more of vegetables
7. Eat no more than 2 servings of fruit
8. Plan meals/snacks (if the diet allows snacks) at least 24 hours in advance
9. No unscheduled eating at all
10. Go to diet meetings EVERY week (Weight Watcher's, TOPS, OA...)


And sometimes I added even more rules and goals to the list, and I expected perfection in each of those goals. Of course, I didn't live up to my expectations, so when my weight loss wasn't as rapid as I'd hoped for, I blamed it on not following ALL of the rules I'd set for myself (in fact, it was never what I hoped for because I was always telling myself how much faster the weight loss would have been if I'd followed all of my rules). Instead of mastering one small change before moving onto a new change, I blamed myself (and often other people in my life blamed me as well) for not being motivated enough.

Which is why that simple line really says and means nothing and why ennay, the OP, was probably miffed about it in the first place. Eat less, move more is not telling anyone very much.

When I was 287 lbs, had I just "ate less and moved more", I may have lost something, but not very much and it most likely wouldn't have STAYED off.

I needed to totally and completely (temporarily) elminate all the junk in order for my desire for them to fade.

I need to eat protein, and fiber in order for me to be satisfied and to keep cravings at bay.

It wasn't just the amounts of food I was eating that was wrong, it was the types as well.

Oh and I believe that just moving wouldn't have done as much good either. I needed the benefit of adding muscle. No where does that come across in the "move more" portion of the equation.

Wow, my mantra is evolving... "Eat less CRAP and less CALORIES, and move more and BUILD MUSCLE" It doesn't roll off the tongue quite the same, but it is more truthful. You are right, Robin. :)

I think that interpreting the "eat less, move more," in a meaningful way for ourselves often ends up a bit like Steve Martin's monologue in "The Jerk"...

Well I'm gonna to go then. And I don't need any of this. I don't need this stuff, and I don't need you. I don't need anything except this. [picks up an ashtray] Just this ashtray. And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need. And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need. And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control and the paddle ball. And this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and that's all I need. And that's all I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one - I need this. The paddle game, and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches, for sure. And this. And that's all I need. The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, this magazine and the chair....

This thread is taking such an interesting evolution.

My own eating habits have changed during my weight loss journey. I used to be a strict calorie counting kind of girl---anything was fair game as long as it fit into my calories for the day. Now, I eat how WarMaiden pointed out, clean and healthy and unprocessed as much as possible. I've slowly changed not only how I eat, but also what I eat and WHY I eat. If someone would have plucked me out of my old life and into my new life, I would have shriveled on the vine. I had to figure this stuff out gradually....

Before, I ate food that was barely food---processed, fried, refined....etc. Last night my DH mentioned getting a soda and all I thought about was the color & additives and sugar----I had NO interest in a soda and I'm not sure if I ever will have a soda again. I have no aspirations of perfection and if I do someday, okay, whatever....but right now I have no interest in putting that much sugar or aspartame or caffeine into my system.

I think I do eat a lot of food through the day. I'm not tracking calories anymore. I aim for a certain number of grams of protein & servings of fruit, veggies, complex carbs, and healthy fats. Maybe if I cut calories I would lose a little more, but I am rather content with where I am and I like what I eat and how I exercise.

I see newbies reaching for 1200 calorie meal plans....and maybe that is what they need, but my inner answer is usually "Why? Why not eat as much as you can of healthy foods and see how your body responds first to those changes before slashing your calories to the bare bones?"**** I like the suggestion to incorporate a certain number of servings of fruits and veggies. I think that alone makes a difference. I believe the answer is not always "how much" but "what" we are eating.

***Footnote to add, I think calorie counting has a place....I would just rather see more plans start at 2000 or 1800 or 1600 calories of real food first, rather than putting together a 1200 calorie day of processed foods.

I think also though...we see so many people who freak out early in the diet because they ate an icecream cone and "ruined their diet". One of the glorious things about moderation is that it is OK not to be PERFECT. Thats where I was getting a little ticked off with the over espousing of Pollan. Because while I do think it is something to strive towards, I also think that would be radically hard for a lot of people. Meet people where they ARE.

While most of the maintainers on here DO eat a much healthier diet than before, I think most of them eat stuff that Pollan would quantify as "non food" at least occasionally. (Splenda comes to mind) I hate to see someone new look at the Pollan plan and feel overwhelmed.

I agree 100%.

Ennay, that is absolutely 100% correct. I did not say eat NO CRAP. Who would want to live life thinking they can NEVER have a bite of cheesecake ever again or never eat, yes, a few french fries on the rare occasion. Having an off plan meal or even day is not something to feel guilty about, it is called life! This is forever, not a finite diet for a week or two weeks that you can "mess up" with one too many margaritas and chicken wings on a given night.

But learning to live the overall "whole foods" philosophy and caring about the food I eat has made this weight loss journey much, much easier -- instead of mindlessly shoveling in whatever. I eat french fries, rarely but I do eat them, but I THINK about it when I do it and I am careful with how many I eat, I don't just order them in due course and snarf down the whole little red cardboard container full.

It does seem that expectations of perfection are so wrapped up in the "diet culture." How often do we see it here, and how many of us have been in that place in which we we think of ourselves as having "been bad" (in various degrees, "a little bad" or "really bad") or "messing up," or having to "start over," often when the less than perfect choices are far from the tragedy that they appear to be when you're in that place.

Weight management, exercise, and health are skills, and it's not about perfection, it's about consistently improving (either continuously or until you decide you're at a level you want to maintain - and even then, that can be a temporary decision). It is like playing an instrument - not all of us are going to have the ability (or the interest) to play at the highest levels. Not everyone is going to strive for competitive sports or an optimally healthy diet (if it were possible to define one). Some of us will go on to run marathons. Some of us may adhere to a fairly strict diet. Some of us will decide never to stop improving, and some of us will find a point at which we're comfortable.

I think one of the hugest obstacles to weight loss is when people think they have to know where they want to end up, before they even start. And worse, some folks believe that where they want to end up, is where they have to start.

And I think those myths are perpetuated by many sources. It's not only a common belief, it's often encouraged in many ways in what we see and hear in the media and from each other. Most of us can think of an example of some of the cuckoo advice we've been given, sometimes by the "experts" who should know better.

Not to hijack the thread, but Michael Pollan irritates the heck out of me... :p

Back on the original topic--this is always going to come down to personal choices. I don't care for cheesecake and have never met one I couldn't pass up easily. Just goes to show.

However, I find that recently I am able to have an open container of ice cream in my freezer again, and NOT eat it. This is almost a miracle. For two years or more, no ice cream could come into the house because I had no self-control about it. None.

This change has come about for a lot of very complex reasons--not bringing it home for a long, long time, generally not eating ice cream, losing weight, losing my sweet tooth by not eating refined carbohdrates generally--all of which are way beyond the simple "Eat less, move more."

So I guess I'd say that "Eat less, move more" is a starting point, and only that. It's not a prescription or a plan, it's only a concept. One has to go beyond it to make progress.

Progress, not perfection.

Jay

Progress, not perfection.

Now that is worthy of a mantra. Most folks, even those who eat horribly and know next to nothing about nutrition, can grasp this concept, and run with it. I don't have to be perfect, I just have to be better. That may mean learning about nutrition, trying healthier foods.... heck just about anything. If you're always making progress, no matter how slow, you will eventually get to where you want to be.

Moderation is fine, in moderation ;) For some people, moderation doesn't work as a mantra; I'm one of those. There are certain kinds of foods I cannot be moderate about, and if they're in my diet at all, the whole thing goes to crap. One of -my- pet peeves is the preaching of moderation. I think it should be suggested, if a person is looking for a way to change their diet, that moderation is one possible approach...but moderation is not necessarily the best approach for every person, all the time. Some of us require abstinence.

I also see an assumption in this thread that Michael Pollan is akin to a diet fascist and undoubtedly never eats something non-perfect. I highly doubt that those things are true; the impression I get from reading his stuff is that he's simply trying to be helpful to all of us who are stuck in the Standard American Diet way of eating.

Personally, I got a lot out of reading In Defense of Food, and really like the "eat food, mostly plants, not too much" recommendation. The sense I got of it is that he WAS making a recommendation of "moderation."

I like "progress, not perfection" as well.

I eat significantly better than I used to eat - I had a salad for lunch today, something that I wouldn't have even considered a year ago. I haven't cut out all of the processed foods, but I am a lot more careful. I found myself wandering around my kitchen in a funk yesterday afternoon because I wasn't satisfied with any of my snack options. A year ago I would have eaten DHs mini rice cakes or a piece of candy and gone on. Heck, six months ago I would have, too, I would have just counted the calories in them! :)

I still eat too much junk - we have several fast food meals each time we have DSS, I still eat too much candy, I don't always get enough protein. But, I'm making progress on a better diet, I eat half the calories I used to eat, I move a lot more. I'm making progress, but will never be perfect. :)

I agree so much.

I also agree with the moderation thing. I also agree that there are some things that for some people, moderation doesn't happen (me and sour cream and onion chips, for example :) ). I also agree that one ice cream cone doesn't "ruin my diet". And so forth.

I've posted this on my blog and here before - I'll post it again ...

I wish there were some way to let people know that it's ok to move into this new life slowly and gradually, rather than making them think they had to make huge changes all at once.

.

Here is the thing. There are many, many different ways of losing weight. Some people do moderation well. Some people need to cut all junk. Some people CAN'T cut ALL junk, or they'll feel deprived. Some people need to make drastic, sweeping changes. Others need to make gradual changes. Some can work intuitively. Others have to count calories.

All of this is FINE until someone starts saying "Well, x way you're doing is not right and will never work". Which might be true for the person saying it (for example, intuitive eating has NEVER, and I don't think WILL ever, work for me. Intuition is off) but doesn't mean it is true for EVERYONE. Which is why you'll notice that, when I give advice here on the boards, you'll find "For me", "In my experience", and "some people find" quite a bit...because there is no one right way that works for everyone. There are MANY right ways, strategies, and approaches.

I'm sure I've sabotaged many attempts to restart my healthy eating because I was in depression mode and comfort foods and the thought of giving up all those comfort foods was too much to bear. I've always been the clean cut drastic change dieter. I try to cut out all the bad stuff at once, and it's so hard to mentally prepare yourself for that. I wish I'd approached it differently. Maybe I wouldn't have gained all my weight back. I could have stopped it before it got this bad through more subtle changes...but then again, maybe not, becuase when I'm in an unhealthy place in my head, I'm not sure I'd even be able to stick to subtle changes.

Right now I'm fighting with myself over the fact that I eat certain processed grains (white rice and white flour tortillas and white pasta) and think I need to cut them all out and switch to whole grains only, but I can't get whole wheat tortillas up here unless I make my own, so I should really start making bread again and switch from wraps to sandwiches. And I absolutely despise whole wheat pastas of any kind (fortunately I rarely eat pasta)...and I love white rice (jasmine rice, especially) and dislike brown rice. So do I beat myself up over my choice of white rice and white flour tortillas, or give myself encouragement for the other good things I'm eating. I'm a perfectionist, so I am beating myself up over it and trying to figure out ways to kick all processed grains.

I'm curious, how many of you who have been at this for a while, really do eat only whole grains in rice, and pasta?

Well, at home that's all I eat. But out (say, at a Chinese restaurant, or a pasta place) it isn't always an option. If it is an option, I get the whole grain one. If it isn't, I typically try to eat less of whatever it is but don't worry about it too much.

Me. I will eat white rice or refined pasta if I have no other choice, but that's uncommon. I frankly prefer brown rice and multigrain pasta.

Did you prefer them when you first tried them, or was it something you had to become accustomed to? Like I said, if I had to eat whole wheat pasta or nothing, I'd cut pasta from my diet completely. Brown rice is not as bad, but still not a pleasurable experience for me. But maybe I have to start mixing them and change the proportions until I am completely switched to brown.

Hard to say, as I've preferred brown rice for a long time. However, I recently discovered brown basmati rice, and I like that even better.

I don't like whole wheat pasta as much as I like multigrain pasta. But I'm not huge on pasta in general. I usually prefer rice because it has more chew. Regular pasta seems like it goes down in no seconds flat and doesn't fill me.

I just have always preferred chewier, nuttier grains. Bread the same way.