THOUGHT THIEF! She totally stole the words right from my mouth !!!

Kudos for loving yourself. But now, would it be very self critical of me to appreciate thin and how thin women rock their slim figures? I think society always praises women that aren't afraid of their curves but when women want to be slim (not anorexic skeleton slim, but Kate Moss slim) and they love their bodies, only the fashion industry cares whereas most regular folks would say that they're boyish bodies aren't anything to be proud of. At least thats what all my friends tell me. Either curves seem like the only thing they value, or they're just hiding insecurities and hating that fact that I'm small. Hey, I think some women that are curvy are just gorgeous, but if you asked me whether or not I like Alicia's Silverstone's body in the Peta ad, I'd tell you "No, I like mine MUCH better. She's got great curves, but I like my thinner body". All I will hear is criticism and all sorts of angry profanity, even though, in my heart, I'm confident enough about myself that I could care less for Miss Silverstone's curves.

Thin, slim, it can mean different things to different people. Kate Moss is a stick, the woman is not healthy looking. I showed a pic of her to my husband and my son. Not together. Both of them said ohhhh why doesn't that woman put some weight on her bones.

I have a site I go to and chat. I put a pic in a share file and had 50 men get it. This is not made up this is true. 39 of the men said she was a stick. 11 said she was perfect.

I used to not really be bothered by my size. I was happy in my relationship, so wasn't looking for a nice body to attract anyone. And for me, it was like my then smoking. I ENJOYED the things I ate as I enjoyed those cigarettes. I never worried about getting cancer or any of that...never really THOUGHT about it. Never thought about how being overweight was also killing me. It wasn't until I simply had a realization and decided I wanted to live a lot longer. I started changing. I quit smoking, I started eating right, started exercising. As it went along, I started wanting that body. Still the same relationship, still perfectly happy here. But I don't mind a whistle now and then, and I TRULY don't mind what I see looking back at me from the mirror.

So while at one time I was OK with my fat, I can honestly say I'm much happier and healthier without it and will never go back.

Own my fat? Not a chance. Simply renting until I could pull my head out of my A** and realize that not being able to walk up a flight of stairs without wheezing really isn't sexy.

Holding my breath to shave my legs? Not sexy. Having my husband try to grab a boob and getting a handful of belly fat instead? Not sexy.

Surely there has to be a middle ground between Nicole Ritchie thin and accepting that being morbidly obese is just a lifestyle choice.

You see, I knew someone was going to bring up Men's preferences. I understand why some people think thin is too thin, but at the same time, when you have someone whose obese like Beth Ditto (whom we were originally talking about), who still have confidence in who she is, I wouldn't be afraid of being confident if I'm thin. (she and I could be of different weights and still be confident, but the difference is that I wouldn't eat unhealthily to maintain my weight!) If attractiveness, what I was referring to before, was based on confidence, then why the bias on curves? How about men who think Beth Ditto should lose some weight? But then again, why is this about a man's preference when I'm confident enough to be myself and thin? I honestly never cared about a man's opinion.. truth to be told, I'm happy being my size right now just because my confidence was all I needed (I'm NOT a stick, but I'd probably would make Alicia Silverstone look chubby instead of curvy)

Yeah, you're right. It does mean different things to different people. I think some models are certainly walking sticks, but I don't think Kate Moss is a skeleton. You're entitled to your opinion though and I understand that. But I notice you referenced men, your son and your husband. I don't ever ask men let alone anyone else about my figure because I honestly think the only person who can convince me of what it is, is me. Even if a good majority of men said Kate Moss was thing, that's still opinion, right?

yeah, I have to agree that when I'm generally happy, I'm not very picky on the details. Its just like when people with good self esteem don't see any reasons to change themselves because theyre comfortable with who they are regardless of what others think! Of course, Beth Ditto probably isn't thinking too much on the health side rather than just being happy.

veggielover
You are absolutly right. That is why so many of us want to be different weights

I was just curious what the men I knew thought. I had my own thoughts before I ever asked them. My husband loves me no matter what size I am and yet. I do care what he thinks and what he is attracted too.

Alicia Silverstone is CURVY Just reinforcing your statement that perceptions are as different as we all are!

One theory is based on survival advantage. Across cultures, women tend to find traits that might indicate "good provider" attractive: physically strong, tall, assertive, even aggressive and mature age. In a primitive society, if you're strong and smart enough to get old, you've proven your genetic superiority.

For men, the traits they find attractive are related to child-bearing. Traits that indicate youth, health and sexual maturity are sought in a mate so that she is likely to produce and raise many healthy children. Curves indicate that her hips are wide enough for childbirth, her breasts full enough to feed children, and that she is sexually mature enough to have them (but barely, so that she will be able to have children for many years to come).

There are tons of anthropological studies that seem to back this up, even in "civilized" societies, where "survival of the phsyically fittest", no longer truly applies. It isn't fair, but what in life is?

As for confidence, I don't think confidence implies or requires any level denial. I can know that my lifestyle is unhealthy and be trying to change it, without feeling the need to apologize to everyone and their brother, including myself for not being where I would like to be. I don't have to decide that I want to or have to stay fat, in order to feel that I have a rightful place in this world, and anyone who doesn't agree can go jump. I think confidence shouldn't depend on whether you have less than perfect aspects in your life.

I also think that our perception of "the norm" and who has it "easier" or "easiest" is based on our own experiences. As a girl who needed a bra at 8years old, and who hasn't been at my ideal weight since age 4, I do not always notice or understand the trials and tribulations tiny girls may experience, and I would assume the reverse is also true. It's human nature to have very little sympathy for experiences we have never had, and to think it's greener on the other side of the fence.

kap
I have read the same thing. Why men and woman look for mates.

Yeah, we studied it in college. In graduate school, I even considered writing my thesis ob the subject (I ended up choosing the exam option instead.)

The bizarre part of it for me was that even among men with sexual attractions outside the norm, (such as homosexuals and "chubby chasers," men attracted to fat women),there were some evidence that universal patterns still rung true. For example, a large portion of men whether heterosexual, homosexual, or interested in atypically large women, still tended to have a more "male-typical" attraction toward exceptionally symetrical, "healthy looking" faces and complexions, feminine facial and body appearances (for example round faces, without thich jaws or brow ridges). Among men who prefer fat women, the vast majority prefer "proportional" or "pear shaped" fat women, those with thin waist, adequate bust-lines, and of course, those child-bearing hips again.

And even among homosexual men and women (though men much more so), their ideal was often not so much a mix of female and male norms, but one or the other (for example a homosexual man may have a more stereotypical "male" ideal of youthful beauty, or might have a more sterotypical "female" ideal of strong, manly, and older, but that instead of a lot of crossover, there tended to be a preference for one set of traits over another. And oddly, even among homosexuals the majority (though not all) will have preferences that follow their genetic gender. I think this sometimes confuses heterosexuals who wonder why their homosexual male aquaintances may seem to be attracted to feminine men, and their lesbian aquaintances may seem to be attracted to less feminine women.

You can't always believe that any study by itself captures "reality," but it's definitely interesting enough to ponder.

They have had a lot of articles about his on the msn home page the last few weeks

Oh one other thing we did in a sociology sexuality class once, it was so cool. It was a class of fairly evenly matched of men and women, and the subject of weight and body image came up. We were all asked to imagine what we would like to look like - size, shape, muscle tone... And then asked whether we would be happy if we could look that way, but remain our exact current weight? Then we were asked to write our answers, along with our gender on the card. Nearly every male said "sure, yeah that'd be fine," but most of the woman answered no. The professor pointed out that women are taught to care more about the number and care less or even discount what they see in the mirror, to the point it actually can change what they see in the mirror.

It was a fun exercise, and a bit eye opening.

Oh, and for the record, I, like the males, voted yes. However since I weighed more than twice my ideal that would have been a neat trick. If I could look 125, but actually be 308, I imagine that walking, or even lifting a hand might be quite an endeavor.

That is quite interesting. Just have been a very enjoyable class.

I think I probably would have enjoyed it more now, or even as a graduate student. At the time, I was 19 or 20, and while not exactly shy, I certainly held a lot of comments and questions back because I felt awkward being the "fat chick" of the group.

When the professor said that people generally hook up with someone of relatively equivalent status physically and socially, but that it wasn't because we go looking for people of within our "leagues." Rather, we try to hook up with the best we can get, and it's only because the people out of our league aren't willing to hook up with us, and we're not willing to hook up with people too far beneath us, that we end up with someone of equivalent value.

I did point out that most people only date people who share common interests and such, and his answer was that we don't even go looking among those "out of our league" very often, because we instinctively know "the rules."

It's a pretty interesting premise, but I wasn't going to do much debating or questioning, because I felt it would draw attention to the fact that everyone in the room would look at me and think they were definitely out of my league.