I think it is a genetic predisposition. My husband was tall and skinny, I am short and fat.
my kids
20 year old male is very tall and heavy,
21 year old male is medium height and stocky but has a normal BMI
23 year old male who is shorter and very heavy
13 year old male short and about 20 pounds overweight
17 year old male short stocky has lost about 20 pounds but still stocky
15 year old girl - medium height normal weight
22 year old girl - medium height ( a little taller than her sister) normal weight
16 year old very tall and very thin
18 year old short, very thin
They all eat the same diet. Some of them are more efficient (like their dad) at burning calories. Some are less efficient (like me) at burning calories. The thinner boys eat huge amounts of food, it doesn't stick but the heavier kids eat less and burn a lot less.
Something other than just "eating too much" is at play here. So while personal choice does enter in, so does disease. Some people have a predisposition to alchoholism, they have a gene that makes it easier for them to become addicted to alchohol. They have the choice not to drink but not drinking doesn't change the predisposition.
Nobody chooses their body type, or their genes for that matter - we work with what we have. I do think that the medical community in not taking weight as anything but a reason to blame and shame has done a huge dis-service to those who struggle. I think everyone who is successful at losing weight is backed up by 10 who are not. I've lost weight a hundred times, I am terrified every day of losing focus because I know without a doubt that everything I've done can be undone in lightning speed. I don't process food correctly, that is a problem, call it an addiction or a disease but it is real.
I haven't read a lot of the responses yet, but want to chime in with my answer first.
Neither.
I think it is a symptom with multiple causes. There are genetic variables for sure! There are medical conditions that can make weight gain easier/loss harder. There are people who become addicted to food or use food for comfort/stress relief.
But I think a lot of it is just societal/lifestyle.
Our bodies were designed to protect us from famine- but we live in a society of excess. Our bodies enjoy and crave high fatty and sugary foods because they are dense in calories- which we need to survive.
But we live in a society where food is abundant and convenient. We can eat anything we want at any moment.
For me, it has never been so much that I ate ridiculous amounts of food, but my body seems very efficient at saving calories for later. Which would be awesome if there was a famine.
If I do not exercise daily AND measure my food, I gain weight, even though I am basically eating the SAME things. When I am gaining, I am not eating amounts that people would be shocked at. In fact I eat much less than my dh and even though he doesn't exercise, he never gains.
It is just that the difference between say 1/2 cup of rice and 1 cup of rice is a lot of calories. Multiply that by 3 meals a day, and you go from a calorie deficit to a calorie surplus.
When I measure my foods and control my calories, I am not hungry- so it isn't a matter of addiction to food. While I love sweets, I have never had trouble resisting them and limit myself to a serving with no problem.
And I wouldn't call it a "disease" as it is completely under my control. It isn't my body doing something "abnormal" it is actually adaptive processes that happen to be maladaptive to the American society.
For me, it is just that for whatever reason, I have to be vigilant in monitoring my calorie intake.
So I guess for me, the question is kind of like- what is the cause of vomiting, poison or virus? Well, yes- but there are so many other causes so you can have either both or neither.
the question is kind of like- what is the cause of vomiting, poison or virus? Well, yes- but there are so many other causes so you can have either both or neither.
Awesome analogy!
I do however support the AMA's classification of obesity as a disease for one very practical reason: The medical coverage system only pays for the diagnosis and treatment of diseases, not necessarily symptoms. If obesity is a symptom of a disease state, but isn't a disease in it's own right, then there's no basis for paying for the treatment of obesity until and unless the actual disease shows up, because the current system focuses on treatment, not prevention (even though prevention would probably save the insurance companies money over the long haul, preventive care could bankrupt them if a sudden shift to preventive care).
Even government coverage is treatment focused. I'm on Medicare, which does not cover a tetanus shot, but will pay for treatment should I get lockjaw... how reassuring.
Even addiction or disease is a nonsense question, under this system, because addiction is classified as a disease. So it's like saying is this rash caused by a measles or a disease.
Addiction, to be covered under the current medical insurance system, had to be classified as a disease in order to justify coverage. Mental illness, likewise. And now, obesity is in the same boat. It's either a disease or a symptom of an underlying disease process, or there's no need to treat it.
Because there are fat people, even some obese and morbidly obese people who do not show any other signs of illness (all their other healtth markers are normal and sometimes even excellent) the insurance system sometimes like to say that fat in itself isn't a health problem at all, so they shouldn't have to pay to fix what may not be broken.
I would like to see a more prevention-based system, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
Even trying to change my own focus to prevention has been challenging and I have tons of resources at my disposal. I have a strong support system, excellent physicians, reliable transportation, a master's degree education, excellent communication skills, and a safe and socially active community, easy access to a good public library, a comfortable home, a gym membership and immediate and reliable internet access.
I know the challenge for people becomes exponential with each resource that is lacking or inaccessible.
I would hope that obesity didn't have to be seen as a disease to warrant intervention, but sadly that's our current system.
Many causes but the big one is grains and especially putting them on the bottom of the food pyramid.
Human beings simply are not designed to eat grains. Period. We've tolerated (at best) them the last few millennium but not thrived on them. Rodents can eat grains, birds can, humans cannot and interestingly cows cannot either.
But we have grain fed beef you say. But what is going on? Cows can survive (barely) on grains but not thrive. That is why there is such high antibiotic use. But grains are 1) cheap and 2) get the livestock really fat, really quick.
Guess what happens when humans have too many grains. They get really overweight quite often and sick quite often.
Now I am not Atkins but my diet is vegetables, fruit, meat, nuts, dairy. And I am not at all scared of fat. Since doing that my belly has gone down A LOT. 12 inches in the last 9 months. Down approaching 75 lbs. Blood work never better, energy never better, mood never better.
Many doctors even are calling the high carb low fat advice of the last 40 years the worst medical advice in the history of mankind. I agree.
Last edited by diamondgeog; 02-10-2014 at 01:23 PM.
Dr. Sharma is Canada's leading obesity expert, and I've interviewed him several times over the past 20 years. I've always found his take on obesity very pessimistic: he calls obesity not only a chronic disease, but an incurable one. I guess it's no surprise that he holds this view, after years of seeing his patients lose weight only to gain back even more -- again and again and again.
I don't know. I sometimes think the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of biological determinism. For my part, I've never experienced any of my regains as "my body trying to defend its higher weight." Every single time I regained weight, it's because I started overindulging regularly. I don't consider this pattern a biological imperative as much as a psychological one. Food is satisfying and comforting -- for some of us, satisfying and comforting enough that we crave more of it than our bodies need.
JMHO Freelance
Last edited by freelancemomma; 02-10-2014 at 04:32 PM.
if person is obesity , need to loss weight, then there are many way to loss weight
1) u must have balance eat, should less eat on meat and more on vegetable and fruit
2) u must have balance life should doing exercise more to loss weight or keep fit , there are many way to do exercise , for example it can running, badminton, going gym and other
Kaplods comments on how insurance and government programs approach things, got me to thinking.
In a college class, we got to talking about the term "insanity." I was surprised, at the time to learn that insanity is not considered a medical thing. At that time it was strictly a legal definition. That's been awhile ago, and I've not kept up on changes, so that could be different now.
I'm just rambling here, but it just seems goofy. You can be legally insane, but not medically diagnosed with any particular recognized, mental illness.
You can be obese, but, the criteria for whether it's a disease or an addiction, or lack of self control or simple knowledge, depends on who you ask.
You could ask 100 people and get 100 different answers.
One thing I am totally on board with is more "preventative" care. In the long run, it would benefit everyone. The individual and the insurance companies, and the government programs.
It's silly, that Kaplods can't get a tetnus vaccination, but they will treat her for lock jaw. Along with that, where I live the tetnus also includes the pertussis, (aka whooping cough) vaccine.
This is such a complex issue!
I'm definitely interested to see other people chime in!
I'm just rambling here, but it just seems goofy. You can be legally insane, but not medically diagnosed with any particular recognized, mental illness.
Mostly, if not always, it's the other way around. When a defendent is claiming insanity, generally meets the criteria for at least one mental illness diagnosis, but very rarely do they meet the legal definition.
I've got a master's degree in psychology, and have worked as a probation officer for several years and with juvenile offenders for five years prior, so I've seen and studied the insanity defense, and I never saw a single case of a defendent pleading insanity who didn't meet the criteria for at least one clinical diagnosis of mental illness.
Legal insanity requires the person to have been unable to distinguish right from wrong at the time of the crime. Attempting to clean up a crime scene or otherwise attempting to avoid getting caught, or even being remorseful or horrified for commiting the crime are generally seen as evidence that the person DID know that their actions were wrong, but they chose to do it anyway (Satan, or the the voices in my head told me to do it, isn't justifiable - God made me do it, could be. In either case, some sort of dissociative mental illness diagnosis would usually apply).
You could have dozens of mental illness diagnoses, but you still would not be legally insane if you knew the crime was wrong (even just a little wrong) - or even if you thought it was the right thing to do, but knew it was illegal.
In most cases, even a successful insanity and unfit to stand trial defense often results in a more lengthy incarceration than pleading guilty in many jurisdictions, because the person is held in a psychiatric facility until they are fit (which could be never). Although generally they can't be held for longer than the maximum sentence for the original crime, unless the person is a danger to themselves or others.
I'm interested in hearing some of your input. For me being overweight has been an addiciton that I've struggled with my entire life. I've been addicted to food, therefore I could never keep any weight off. Sure I could lose weight, but it was always temporary, because the addiction would come creeping back and BOOM, back to square one.
What do you think?
Being addicted to food is not equal to being addicted to obesity. Loads of people who are food addicts are not necessarily obese.
Addiction to food+ lack of exercise= obesity
I'm also addicted to food. ***I KNOW I WILL ALWAYS BE*** For that matter I'm not trying to suppress any eating habit of mine. I'm just training myself to be a REGULAR EXERCISER.
As the saying goes, ***EAT, RUN, REPEAT***
Being addicted to food is not equal to being addicted to obesity. Loads of people who are food addicts are not necessarily obese.
Addiction to food+ lack of exercise= obesity
I'm also addicted to food. ***I KNOW I WILL ALWAYS BE*** For that matter I'm not trying to suppress any eating habit of mine. I'm just training myself to be a REGULAR EXERCISER.
As the saying goes, ***EAT, RUN, REPEAT***
I couldn't disagree more. I've never not exercised. I have always exercised for many many years. Regularly! And I am obese. You cannot fix a bad diet with exercise. If someone is eating 1000calories over their daily allotment (and many of us have and do) then what is one session at a gym going to do to offset that? Hardly anything at all. Been there.
I also don't agree that food is addictive. I think those of us who are driven to eat do so for comfort and if we can find ways to cope with our stress and anxiety better then we wouldn't turn to food.
Last edited by Palestrina; 02-12-2014 at 07:15 AM.
I have no wisdom to add to this at all, but my thought process on this question has been an interesting journey. I've never not worried about my weight (and I had a parent that could have qualified for a "my 600 pound life" style reality show).
I started out with SHAME. "This isn't a medical thing. We have no control. We're gross and disgusting and FAT because we can't get our s**t together".
Then in the depths of my depression when I literally hid out in my apartment for 4 years: "It's genetic. I'm doomed to be this way. Clearly I don't eat that much and I'm still fat (I can't even begin to describe the level of denial in that statement).
The first time I made an actual honest not half a***d effort was August 2012. I'm still going. This is where my thoughts have gone since then.
I recognize that personally, I failed myself. I ate poorly and self medicated and did not move BUT I had a genetic predisposition to the depression and the carbohydrate addiction that contributed to that. Not to mention that by birthright I will never be a "small" woman. We just don't come in that size on my dad's side, and I take after him. I know that I will have to work the rest of my life to keep myself healthy because it just doesn't come easy to me.
I disagree that food isn't addictive. There is more than enough medical proof of the effect that simple sugars have on the brain. As to obesity as a disease? Obesity itself is something "wrong" with the body. (This is where it gets sticky - fat acceptance and such, not to mention the myriad of people who are "technically" obese but in great shape and live to 100 etc), but for the most part, we aren't supposed to be heavy are we? Of course there is no question that obesity can CAUSE other diseases.
I agree that classifying it as a disease is about the only way to get the medical establishment to proactively treat people, but that's going to be a long road.
