oh my! I forgot!! Day 8, done :D Adn today was the day Iw as worried about! I almost skipped thinking "Who'd know it?" But then I thought some more... I'd know I skipped...

Go Curly!
 

Congratulations Curlylocks! You Rock! :cb: :cb: :cb: :bravo: :encore:

mscat

my banana won't dance
 

did I say hat out loud? :cb:

Day 4, done! It's late here, so I'll do individual replies and a more interesting post tomorrow.

Hello! Because I miss you so much, RED and because LEGAL you are inspiring!! (Over on the basics thread) I am going to jump in on this 21 day challenge. Now my usual problem is a daily beer I seem to need, but I KNOW I will fail that one because I'm going to be hanging out with my brothers in a little more than a week and that involves beer, no way around it. So my challenge will be to resist temptation at least once a day. And I'lll post the temptaion daily. This actually sounds like it might be fun. I'd like to include an exercise challenge too, but that would be tough while I'm away. Next one, 3 weeks from now!
I'm looking forward to hanging out with everyone!

Day 3 in the bag!
 

Hello all you challengers! Ok, I did it. The cleaning, like 1nceagin said, just a bit. Tonight I didn't worry about finishing one specific thing or area, because that would take too long. I just did one area for about 15 mins and see that, yes, it does make a difference. I wrote the rest of this post before I did that and now am going to send it off since I have wrapped up my day, I think it was Day 3. Yes, it was. I made a mistake this morning, called it Day 4, but it was only 3 since I had to start over on Saturday. I went back and fixed the earlier post. .... And I didn't have sugar. And though, exercise is not part of this challenge, I got to the gym and only did cardio, 5 K of jogging. I've just been hitting the weights and leaving the cardio. Though I walk and cycle and ride, I think, as mscat says, am just going to have to raise that bar and raise that metabolism by getting the heart up and keeping it up. I also ate well, a huge salad and also two meals of whey protein. I'm trying to get more protein in and am seeing that it really does stop the hunger. I also had fresh fruit. So, it was a tough day, but a good one. Thank you all for being here. I couldn't have done it without you! :grouphug:

mscat -- Hope you got started again. Too bad about the foods you forgot. I can do that easily! ;) Thanks for the encouragement. My life is very irregular and this was the reason for the weight gain, much of it. If I had a routine, both exercise and food things would be easier. Still, I have to get this weight off and that is going to take increased effort. I know. Also, inconsistency takes its toll with me. But I will definitely keep your words in mind because I know I'm going to have to raise the bar. There's just no way around it!

1nceagain -- Glad you were enjoying your day. But, I hope you were able to get to the gym. Your husband is away now, isn't he? Is that the empty nest you speak of, or your son? Try to make new friends. I know it's tough where you are, but just maybe... :) And congrats on sticking to the plan! You will soon be into Phase 2, no? And, thank you too, for the encouragement. I had another cold day at work, surrounded by schoolboyish men...sigh...but reading your words makes me feel better.

carla -- You're a sweetie! :love: I'm glad to be your favorite cheerleader. But, sometimes I need cheering too. Glad to see mscat back too. Java's down too. But, we'll bounce back, I'm sure! :spin: Tell me, what was this something you were looking to do today? Was that the cleaning bit? No need to blush when you're talking to me, the biggest non-cleaner of all time! :bravo: for getting to Day 7. How did it go today?

curly -- And curly!! There you did it again, you are really showing us up! That's two whole rounds! Fantastic, awesome and yes, we'll have to start worshipping at your feet! Like this, right???..... :rofl:

No, really, great going, kid! :cp: :encore: :woo: :cp: :encore: :woo:

Brunette -- Excellent going on Day 8!! :bravo: But, I'm confused, what did you almost skip? Maybe this is an expression I don't know, do you mean cheated? I think so, right. Yes, I know, I've been there, but decided against it. Of course, it's all an honor system!! :lol3: But you are the one it'll hurt and you'll remember it the whole challenge. Good going for you! Remember, too, you have a free day to take.

gray -- Excellent! :cp: Day 4 in the bag!! :dancer:

Apple -- Hello!! :wave: So great to see you over here. I was gong to say to come over, since I saw Legal posting about the challenge on Basics, but I didn't want to pull people away from there. You're a sweetie, too, saying you missed me. I do feel a bit bad about not being there for you all these days, but as you can see and I have said, I'm over here and the place is hopping and I'm kept busy with my own challenge so it has been tough to post over there and even if I do it's often a rehash. Still, I haven't given up on Basics, just been too busy here over the weekend, which is like midweek for normal people! :lol: Okay, so you're in with an interesting challenge. I like it. Resisting temptation! Good luck!

Everyone else, where are you all! We got some regulars still MIA! Come on, people, come check in with us. You can see there's always someone back on Start or at least in the early days. Newcomers, welcome! :wave:
Everyone else, write soon! :comp:


:dance:

I think I "over-did" it . . .
 

Red-I am so proud of you! I am glad you got your 15 minutes in. I knew you could do it if you just broke it down a bit-made it less menacing! I am a bit lost about you "cold at work" comment. I assume you aren't talking about the AC. Whats up?

As for the empty nest thing, it is mostly about my boys. I miss them very much and worry about them even more. I think worry is a waste of time really-but I can't seem to help it. It will pass. They are good boys. I am also missing my travel buddy. A girlfriend I made here early on. She has moved back to the states. You see my husband left for the middle east 4 weeks after I moved here and was gone for 8 months. I met my friend and we had a blast. Went on tons of day trips and mini vacations to Okinawa and Korea, etc.. Lots of fun. Now, besides work, gym and mandatory errands, I am a borderline recluse. Pitiful. Part of it is because we don't live on base so am not "in" the military social circle. I have a couple of Japanese friends but one just got married and is moving to the states and the other lives with her elderly mom and doesn't get out much-ok, thats enough. I'm done. I feel better. Thank you. . . I do need to get out more-and will soon.

As for the gym-YES. I went after work. Unfortunately when I got there all the elliptical machines were taken. I decided to try the stair climber thing Oh- my -goodness. That thing is torture! Fortunately someone got off the elliptical after about 10 minutes, so I switched. So I did 10 on the stepper, 65 on the ellpitical, then I was just getting into a movie-Secrets of the Ya-Ya sisterhood-so I had to keep going! I did switch to the bike machine-You just peddle-no arms. I did another 63 minutes on that so I could finish the movie. Not having english TV at home does have an upside! I will probably regret it tomorrow, but it felt good while I was doing it. The down side is, I missed dinner so I am grazing on some canadian bacon and I am going to have a V8-both on the SBD plan.

Anyhoo, I am a bit wiped, so I will stop in tomorrow to catch up. Have a great day all!

Day 18....Sorry for the delay in posting, Red! I don't get on too much over the weekends! :)

Day 13 Done!
 

Hi all!

I have successfully completed day 13, and on to day 14 - I'm very impressed considering I was on a little vacation last week. I did have to use my free day though. I forgot to weigh in before we left on Thursday, but just did now, and I'm somehow down a pound - have no idea how that could have happened - I really ate crappy all weekend.

Sorry I can't go back and read, I'm exhausted from my trip, and need to get ready for work, and the kids ready to go to their dad's house for the night.

Hope to be back soon!

Kelly

Hi everyone! I'd like to join. I usually post one 100 club. I lost 40lbs then gained 16 back.
I believe this challenge will get me back on track. Thanks for offering such a wonderful thread!!

Mez 21 day Challenge - Don't go over my WW Points. Daily 24 not including activity points. I'm going to allow my activity points. One of the big reason is it motivates me to workout. I get a extra points and that might mean a treat. Sometime I use them sometimes I don't. I'll post if I used them.

Day 8
 

Yep, on day 8 and it's been a real struggle. Last night at twenty until midnight, while watching a Bruce Willis movie, I had to set my timer and do twenty minutes of WATP moves, just to fulfill my goal. But I did it. I don't like barely squeaking by with the bare minimum, but I'm still OP and moving on.

I called two doctors today to see about getting my health issues looked at. Big Sigh.

Great job to everyone and continued good luck. I'll be back to deeper posts come Tuesday evening (at work).

Also wanted to add that I found an awesome new magazine at Kroger. It's called "Looking Good Now." It's all about exercise and weight loss and I found something for ME on every page. No super models here. I loved it so much, I think I'll subscribe. Maybe it's on line too.

now starting Day 4....
 

Good morning, all. It's 4:30 a.m. and I have to be out soon. Bad dreams all last night. Wow. Strange. Oh well, maybe it means something in my body is changing, like the fat melting.... So, ready to slug through another day. Will try to hit something a bit more substantial on the cleaning. I really, really hate this cleaning part of the challenge. I hate it so much it just shows how much I need to do this. God, when it makes giving up sugar look easy, it must be hard! :eek: Glad to see you mez! Will talk to you all later. :wave:

:kickcan:

bad day :(
 

Back to start for me! Couldn`t sleep, horrible cramps all night...pounding headache. I feel so yucky and bloated. :( I could care less about exercise right now. I`m trying to push the water and stay away from salt. Maybe I can try for day 1 again tomorrow, or maybe rethink my challenge. I thought I could do it but I don`t know... I dont feel like exercising at all. I know I have to snap out of this and keep going. 30 minutes every other day is not going to cut it. It`s only been a week of slacking so I can recover if I just do it, and I am going to do it tomorrow. Eating is still going well, at least I have that going for me.

I really want to get on with challenging myself!! I just don`t know if I should rethink my challenge. My husband has been gone 3 weeks, when he gets home Wed. I`ll have an even harder time doing anything in the morning. Oh I dont know, but I promise you all I`m working on it. Just have to give me til tomorrow to think clearly!

I hope everyone is doing well.

Hi guys!


ty ty ty for all the cheers!!!! :)

Back to Day one.... got my 30 min of exercise.. I have 60 oz's of water and will have 80 by bedtime.... lol i'll probably be running to the bathroom all nite!!!

but i really need to challenge myself to drink the water..

I really REALLY mean to read and reply to everyone's posts!! i've been so crazy busy lately though... Wednesday I have a full day to myself and I promise to get caught up!

Day 9 went smooth! My hubby and I went on a rather hilly walk (We live in the foothills of the rockies) and my calf muscles ached so bad! And I wanted to stop several times, but I kept my butt a walkin!! It was wonderful! I'm starting to think that I REALLY can do this!! Except for that the last week of this challange I will be on vacation :eek: Although I'm sure I can find a way to get at LEAST 30 minutes of cardio in!!

yep-I "over-did" it.
 

Day 9 of SBD here. I will not do 2 hours of exercise again anytime soon. I felt like I had weights tied to my limbs this morning. :barbell: After a cup of coffee and some ispiration form the posts, I did get back to the gym this morning. Glad to have it done for the day. :flow2: Still doing good on SBD. I need to start planning better though cause when my husband gets back, he needs a real meal. I can grab a cheese stick and a salad and be happy, but that would not go over too well with him. :tantrum:

Jacky-Good to see you still going strong. Twice as far as me and it gives me hope. :halffull:

Kelly-Almost a full 2 weeks under your belt. I can't wait! Then I can have fruit! :cb:

Mez, What a beautiful baby! Gettin healthy to take care of that precious one? You have done amazing. Don't let a step back stop you-now take two forward! :tread:

Java-sorry you are having health issues. I hope that all gets taken care of soon. The magazine sounds interesting. I will look for it online. :comp:

Red-wow. 4:30. I am enjoying staying in bed until 6. But I will be on the same sched as you when my husband returns. Crazy. :dizzy: Sorry you didn't have sweet dreams-maybe lack of sugar? I hope it passes soon.

Caro- I hear ya. The older I get (42) the worse my cramps are. I used to breeze through them Now it's an 800mg motrine and call me in the morning! :faint: I am a bit anxious about my huband coming home as well. I hope I can stick with it. At least I will be on phase 2 by then. Should be a bit easier to plan meals around that.

Curly-Again, great job. So you are sticking with the same challenge? :woo:

Well, I need to get breakfast in me before I really hose up my schedule again today.

Have a great day! :flow1:

I am ready to start over, tomorrow (August 2nd) will be Day 1.
I am going to make a slight change to my challenge though. Initially it was to eat my veggies and get to bed by 10:30 pm at the latest.

My re-designed 21 Day Challenge will be:

1) veggies: eat a salad or a bowl of greens or an average-sized vegetable each day (carrots don't count, as it's a lunch staple)
2) herbal tea: brew and drink the (unbelievably disgusting) cleansing/weight-loss-aiding tea
3) improve my sleep schedule on an ongoing basis and aim to achieve a set, routine schedule


Thinking about the herbal tea makes me cringe and shudder, so wish me luck! Eeek!

Day 8 done. Strange dreams last night that I had "forgotten" about the challenge and was enjoying a nice chilled glass of white wine... Maybe I'm missing it more than I consciously realized! Just 13 days to go.

Day 1 - Went well (Stay didn't go over my allowed points) joining this thread sure made me think about how and what I wanted to use my points on. I did give myself a treat and used an activity point.

Curlylocks, congratulations on hitting day 21 yesterday!!

Welcome, Apple Blossom. Nice to "meet" you.

red, I'm glad you're feeling better. I'm glad you got some cleaning done, and some exercise. Protein really does help with feeling full.

1ceagain, the stairclimber is really a tough one isn't it? I think the elliptical is actually a harder workout than a stairclimber, but it's a lot easier on the knees. I have really weak knees (thanks Mom!) and I can't do the stairclimber for very long at all.

Welcome, mezmerize. I hope this thread is helpful for you :).

Caro, sorry you had to start over :(. Your challenge was to exercise daily, right? That really is hard, especially if it's cardio every day. Back on the horse, though, right? How did today go for you?

Good luck, SushiPenguin!

Day 5, down! I haven't gone to the gym in a couple of days though. My husband's work schedule just changed and it's going to be a lot harder to fit my exercise in now. :( I'm going to go tomorrow morning first thing before he heads in, because I don't know when else I'll get a chance otherwise. I'm going to need to figure out how to get some cardio in at home until my kids start preschool. This is going to be challenging for a little while.

I do have something to celebrate, though. I went through my closet today to try on all my previously too-small pants, and they ALL fit. I am in a very loose 18 now and I actually put on and zipped up a pair of 16s! They're too tight to be comfortable enough to wear right now, but I'm so close. I'm predicting that within 10-15 pounds I can wear my 16s again. I had one pair of pants that I recieved as a christmas gift. At the time, they were 2 sizes too small and I never even took the tags off. I put them on today and they are LOOSE. Almost too loose, they won't fit for long. All in all, I gained 6 new pairs of pants and jeans today after going through the clothes I've stubbornly refused to throw away these past 4 years. I KNEW I'd fit into them again.

counting down on Day 4...
 

Awww...don't worry about me Red! I'm not giving up! :)

Day 19 down and working on day 20...WOW! Where did the time go! 2 rounds down and already time to start working on a 3rd! Summers are way too fast!

Speaking of round 3, I don't know what I want to do. I will think about it and post it soon! :)

Onto day 15!
 

14 down, and only 7 left! I'm thinking maybe I should have challenged myself a little more than with just water, but over 1/2 way done now, so I will save that for the next challenge. I was very impressed with myself last night, I went shopping, completely bi-passed the chips and soda! Actually come out with a case of water instead of soda! That's a big step for me!

Caro - don't doubt yourself! You can do this!! Keep up the good work!!

Grey_eyed_girl - Congrats on getting into a smaller size jeans!!! It's so exciting isn't it! When I started I was in size 20W, and now I'm just in regular 18 - I was able to drop the W in most cases! I will admit that the 18 is a bit snug, but I can move and I can breath and that's all that matters! lol!

Red - as always thanks for the encouragement! My eyes are definitely focused forward! I'm getting excited for the next challenge!

Hey caro! Hang in there!
Gray-isn't it great when pants fit again. That is the best feeling!
I have a whole closet full of "skinny" clothes because I can't throw anything away. They are probably out of style by now. I have a shirt that I can't wait to fit into. My arms are too fat right now. :mad:
Well, the bad news is that I didn't resist ANY temptations yesterday and it was just a bad eating day all around. Back to day one. I was visiting a friend and I kind of thought it would be impossible anyway. :^:
OK, see you tomorrow!

grrrrrr this water challenge is tuff... i feel waterlogged all ready and I WANT MY DIET PEPSI!!!!!!!!

starting out on Day 5 here....
 

Good morning, all. Wednesday here and the start of my Day 5. I'll be glad to get out of these low numbers. I don't like them. And I must remember I have two whole days free this round, my second. I was wanting sugar badly yesterday but had a lot of watermelon. That, grapes and pineapple are usually more than enough to satisfy that craving. And then I try to get some complex carbs and/or protein in there too. The cleaning part of my challenge is the hard part, but I know this is going to have a great effect on my weight. It gives me hope to see the cumulative effect of the cleaning, which is exactly what I need for the weight to come off. I mean, it takes quite a while to see the difference in your body. Even a good rate of a pound or two a week is not going to be visible for a while, especially if it was not all fat. I have often wished I could just blink and go back for a bit to where I was and then do a fast forward to the present. That way I wouldn't get discouraged that nothing was changing in my body. Of course, this could be a heart-stopping shock if things were going the other way! :eek:

jkg -- Well, sure glad to see you weren't giving up on us. I had forgotten you already did a round. Way to go! What is your challenge by the way, I mean, what was your challenge. You only have a day to go! You're inspiring! :yes:

curly -- So, are you through Day 1 yet? I thought you were doing exercise too this time, right? I can't believe you still find the water part challenging after two whole rounds. So I can see what a hard challenge it was for you. I consume massive quantities of water, especially in the summer. I am literally dripping sweat constantly, which people says shows what a good metabolism I have. I am like the horses I ride, they are drenched. But, damn, that metabolism just knows how to hold onto the fat. Oh well, I should be proud I have such a super machine for a body. It is a survivor's body. Well, curly, good luck on this round. If you have added exercise, it'll be tougher. But I know you can do it! :spin:

Apple Blossom -- Oh well, back to Day 1, is it? Well, you should have seen me on my first round. I took about two weeks to get moving. I was totally embarrassed because I'd started this thread and then couldn't get past Day 1 for a good week alone. I really like your challenge. There are always temptations out there and it'll be a great habit to get into to turn your back to them! Good luck. You can do this! :sunny:

dkkrf -- Don't worry about your challenge being too easy. You're probably just getting cocky 'cause you got this far! ;) You see, you being impressed with yourself about the soda/chips/water save just proves it! :cp: You're doing great! Challenge rules say you can't change your challenge partway though without going back to Start... :judge: .... but you could always add a "training wheels" addition, just to get a feel for something new that you could do in a later challenge. And, I'm so glad to hear you're looking ahead and getting excited about the next challenge! It's kind of like Star Trek or something, going where you've never gone before! :lol3: Cool!!

Okay, where is everyone?!?!? I have time here to respond to you all and you're playing shy with me? :dunno: Come out and tell me what you've been up too and where you are, whether it's chugging right along or back to Start, I want to hear from YOU!!!


:moped:

hi guys


Day #2 yes.. i am continuing my exercise, but it had been my same challege for 2 rounds... so now thats just habit... To challege myself i am doing the water thing also...

so far today I have had NO DIET PEPSI... and 100 oz water .. slosh slosh run to ladies run.... lmao and went to the gym and did 45 min..

Hi Red! I wouldn't want you to feel lonely...

The stinky heat is back here, but my cats got me up early so I went to a gym to do a little cardio, and then went for a walk down to the market and bought wonderful strawbs, raspberries, green and yellow beans, tomatoes... I can't believe this is my first time down there this year. I went with a friend who also likes veg and fruit, and we split the rather large containers to get more variety. Yumm.

My good friend, who is diabetic, has been infected by my gabbing on about challenges, and he's decided to do a 21-day no sweets challenge! So 3fc has a good influence well beyond the actual members.

And you, Red, have had a good influence on me. I spent about 40 minutes today reducing/consolidating 4 baskets of Stuff into one. One tiny step at a time. Maybe the bathrooms will win the cleaning lottery tomorrow.

So far today I'm on target for day 8 (9?). Still no booze or chocolate.

Keep on trucking!

some posts!
 

Red, it does make me feel good, both to succeed myself and to be a positive influence to someone I care about. I was sure my friend, being a guy, would just tune out the whole challenge/diet babble. (He is gay, but not at all the feminine type.) But it has been 3 years since his partner died of a heart attack, and he's finally starting to care about his health and his future again. We spend a lot of time shoring each other up and just being good pals.

It's 8:10 pm here, and I just realized I have rather a lot of water to consume before I sleep. I'm also hoping to introduce my Bigboy to the dog upstairs - if they get along I may have someone to take the kitties when I'm away. (My next trip is two weeks from now, so I have to get a move on...)

ttfn

1st round= i did walk 2 miles each day
2nd round= i did my ladies express workout (curves clone) & walk 2 miles

so this time i am doing: 1 hr of exercise per day & drink water


p.s. maybe we need to choose a smiley thingy to add to our signiture for each time we have completed the 21 days?? got one in mind Red?

curly wants a star..or two, or three!
 

Finally, again...DAY 1
 

Hi Red! I`m feeling much better today, thanks to everyone for your support :)
Guess it`s part of being a woman, right? I`m actually feeling very good, my water and eating have been great and I`m working on the exercise, did some upper body work tonight. I think it`s best for me right now just to stick to what I was doing, keep my challenge a simple 30 minutes a day. I`ll try to get the morning thing worked out when the kids start school next month, so I have plenty of time to get in one more challenge til then! So thats it, starting today I`m on my challenge. I got in 30 minutes so I guess that makes Day1! I feel so much better now.

I`ve had a long day and tomorrow looks longer, I`ll check in when I can and I owe you a really long post, Red! ;) I hope everyone is kickin' butt out there!

Day 10 down!! Woo Hoo!! I feel AMAZING!

Hello everyone! Thanks for the warm welcome. :)

That baby is my grandson. (Phoenix) He just turned 6 months. I need to update his picture. (just had them taken) He's one of the main reasons I want to get healthy. I babysit him and I tell you somedays he just wears me out. LOL
He's ALOT of FUN!!!

I'm finding this tread very helpful! I know I just got started but I'd hate to go back to day one. LOL Sounds pretty silly for only being on day 2. It does make a person think.... I guess this is what it's about. Training to make better choices.

Thanks again for the warm welcome

Whoops forgot to write
Day 2 - Did well only used 23 of 24 WW Points

just when I thought it was getting easier . . .
 

Well into day 10 now of SBD. For some reason, today I was hungrier than any other day so far. And felt like going to the gym the least. But I went and am still on track. :faint:

I like it Red! it accessorizes my blinking 5 lb flowers very well lol

Day 5 and I'm still alive!
 

Well, Day 5 is done and gone and as soon as I type this I'm going to bed. Another 3:45 a.m. rising tomorrow! I really kicked butt today, did a lot of walking and a leg workout at the gym. I was going to jog but it's always tough after leg workouts and today I was walking the 50 min. home so I thought it was good enough for fat-burning. No sugar, got the cleaning done. Just a bit, but... ;)

carla -- Hope you got your water drunk. Did you introduce your kitten to the pup? If you haven't already, I would put one of them (guess it'd have to be the cat) in a cage and let them get to know each other. Hope it works out. And, I'm so glad to hear that you're there for your friend through what must have been a very difficult time. It sounds like he's coming out of the grieving and back to life. I wish him well. And you too! :sunny:

Caro -- Glad to hear you're feeling better. It looks like maybe there could be a kind of slump going around the thread, not many posters and that may spell trouble. :eek: I hope not though. Yes, you may have taken aboard too much right now and I think your daily exercise alone is a great challenge. Certainly not an easy one! I'm looking forward to the long post! :wave:

Legally -- Wow! Great to hear you're feeling so great. Look at that! A full 10 down! Congratulations! :cp:

mesmerize -- Great going on making it through Day 2!! :encore: Good for you! I can bet that little tyke does wear you out. And what a great reason to get/stay healthy. I'm so glad you're finding the challenge helpful. I certainly have. It and the people here make you accountable to something/something and that's the great part of it. It's really about setting and achieving goals, forming new habits. Good luck and write us often! :comp: We're so glad to have you here!

1nceagain -- So, I'm sorry you had a hard day, but I take it you're still ok, right? I hope so! Good for you for getting to the gym. That's what it takes and you have it!! :spin:

curly -- Just caught you. Glad you like the simple faces. I really want the smug purple faces but something seems to be wrong with them. Maybe the problem will right itself soon. I really want those smug faces, gosh darn it! :mad: Oh, and, of course, I took your blinkies into consideration when choosing the simple faces! ;) Is that what they are, 5 lb flowers? Cool!

Others, where are you?!! :listen: I think we've lost a few of you. :cry: Trixi? And happy, mscat, java, are you still hanging in there? :?: I expect you others will pop in soon again! Look forward to hearing from you! :yes:

:angel:

I am working on my last day Woot! Woot! I think for my next round, I will drink more water. I will figure out what is recommended for me and post it later.