[MariaOfColumbia]

I've only done quite limited exercises with the free weights we have, and have decided to learn to do the full squat.

However, when I follow links from here to a couple of different recommended weightlifting sites, I get conflicting advice on form.

On exrx.net, they say

"The primary danger to the knee occurs when the tissues of the calf and thigh press together altering the center of rotation back to the contact area creating a dislocation effect."

and

"Contrary to propaganda to the contrary, prominent weight training authorities demonstrate the squat with the knees flexing forward at the same distance as the hips flex backwards. Fredrick Hatfield, Ph.D., the first man to squat over 800 lbs, recommends the knees to extend over the feet with the back more upright for quadriceps development. "Strength Training for Young Athletes" by Steven J. Fleck, PhD and William J. Kraemer, PhD, illustrate parallel squats with the knees extending beyond the feet (knees moving forward with same magnitude as hip moving backwards)."

Whereas on stumptuous.com she says:

"At the bottom of the squat, hamstrings make contact with the calves."

and

"Think about keeping your shins roughly perpendicular to the floor and your knees roughly behind your toes."

So, you see, one recommended site says to touch your hamstrings to your calves, while the other says not to. One says to keep your knees behind your toes, while the other says to let the keee go past the feet.

Which is it?
I don't want to garbage my knees doing it the wrong way. And they sure do lots of crackly popping noises doing the full squat just with my body weight. I haven't even tried with a broomstick yet!

Also, how necessary is it to keep your back arched? I really can't seem to hold it arched all the way down- it straightens up some at the bottom. Is this going to hurt my back?

I really want to start doing lots more with my weights . I'm only doing about 4or 5 things with the actual barbells right now, and the rest is just basically calisthenics with itsy bitsy 5 lb dumbells. The full squat seems like a good one to add, but I need some advice on how to do it right!

[leanbodyfitness]

first, what other exercises are you doing for your lower body? lunges? reverse lunges? you should start out with single leg exercises like that and once mastered, then go into double leg exercises like a squat. doing lunges other single leg exercise will help you with flexibility that you'll need for the squat. Also, don't worry about adding free weights to a lot of exercises yet. using just your bodyweight on lower body exercises is going to be good enough for right now.

But to answer your question, it's a myth that the knee shouldn't go past your knees. no study has shown that the knees going past your toes is going to cause knee problems, if the form is correct on everything else.

As for how low your squat can go, again, there's no study saying that going below parallel is bad for the knees (in fact, some studies have shown that there is LESS stress on the knees as it goes lower than a 90 degree angle). so go as low as your flexibility will allow.

some other tips:
- make sure that your feet are flat on the ground. in other words, don't let yourself fall back on your heels or fall forward on the balls of your feet.
- make sure your knees are not bending inward on either the downward and upward movement.

the most important part of the squat (in my opinion) is your lower back. you've gotta keep that arched/flat. don't let it round. find a spot on the ceiling at about a 45 degree angle from where you are standing and focus on it while going down or up.

but again, start with single leg exercise and always keep your upper body straight in lunges, don't lean forward and try to get that front leg down to parallel.

Michael Navin, CSCS

[Meg]

Maria - squats are a fantastic exercise! I've read that they work 73% of the muscles in your whole body -- and they're fun, too.

But I think it's very difficult to learn them from reading and trying to teach yourself. Do you belong to a gym? If so, how about asking a trainer to show you proper squat technique and then critiquing you on your form? If you don't belong to a gym, do you know someone who might be able to help?

Best of luck to you!

[MariaOfColumbia]

I'm not part of a gym, I'm not comfortable in such an environment. I'm much happier working out at home. I've had my husband critique my form, but with conflicting "standards" it's hard to figure out exactly what I need to be doing.

As far as other exercises for the lower body, I've been doing an hour of exercycling per day, twice a week, and an hour of treadmill twice a week, and an hour of weightlifting/calisthenics/stretching once a week. The weight lifting for lower body usually involves using the leg extension thingy and then turning over on my belly and using it the other way. I'd also do some "low horse", an exercise learned in a long ago kung fu class, where you kind of squat until your thighs are parallel to the floor and stay there for a minute or two. I'm going to drop that in favor of the squat for now, though, because that is putting lots of sheer stress on the knee from what I've read. The full squat should be better than that!

I was also doing flutter kicks and sideways leg raises, and that thing where you are on your hands and knees and lift your leg backwards toward the ceiling and the other one where you lift your leg sideways toward the ceiling.

But that wasn't with weights.

I've been inspired since poking around here on this part of the forum for a week, and I'm going to increase the weight training to two days a week, and do more actual weight training instead of the wimpy calisthenics. I figured that in addition to the upper body stuff I'd been doing, the full squat was a good one to add to the group.

They sure are making me sore, though! Those are definitely muscles I wasn't using much before. I'll try looking up when I do them. That oughta help keep my lower back as it should be.

edit: But I'll have my husband critique me until I can keep the form OK. It will help a LOT to let my knees go a little past my toes, I think. It was almost impossible to keep them behind.

[leanbodyfitness]

Originally Posted by MariaOfColumbia

edit: But I'll have my husband critique me until I can keep the form OK. It will help a LOT to let my knees go a little past my toes, I think. It was almost impossible to keep them behind.

which is why i think it's more important to focus on your lower back than your knees going in front of your toes. Think about it. if you're focusing your eyes on your knees while dropping down into the squat, you will have a tendency to follow your eyes and lean forward and round your back, which you absolutely don't want.

[sportmom]

CHeck out your library or a bookstore where you can comfortably browse and maybe check out/pick up a book or two. There are some wonderful books out there that will give you a routine with weights to do 3 times a week or so. Body for Life for Women is what I'm using right now and I love it.

After reading this thread yesterday, I did my lbwo last nite and really made an effort to do deep squats and plies yesterday -- so thanks for starting this thread! A couple of times I was able to get my hams to touch my calves, but not a lot! But it was great to read this thread and really think about it as I did my workout last nite.

[Sugar Cube]

All this talk of squats and calves to hamstrings makes me think of way everyone sits in China, while I was there I actually became flexible enough to be able to squat, straight back, and then stand up without flopping over. I am on my way back down there - if only my gutt would get out of the way.

[sportmom]

Yes, they do this in Korea too and dh was telling me that those cultures have amazingly strong quad muscles but very poor ab muscles. (he lived over there for 15 months and befriended many) Interesting, isn't it?

I can't stand to do that! Whenever I try, it's as if the blood flow completely stops to my lower legs at the knees and if I don't get up after like 2 minutes, I never will!! lol