I have some dumb questions on deadlift form. I have been wanting to try the barbells for some time but have hesitated a bit because I'm concerned about injury. So basically I have been doing the machines and hand weights (up to 30lb). But yesterday I thought I would take a baby step by trying out with just the bar and see if I could manipulate just that a little without killing myself or falling over the equipment. So I took the bar from the press rack, which seemed the easiest to get at; all our barbells here are hung up in different cages and racks. First I had to get the weights off the bar, which required some experimenting to figure out how to undo the clamps (I am not very mechanically minded) so I was relatively proud when I accomplished that. Then I put the bar by itself on the floor and tried to do the form for a deadlift, since that seemed the least complicated balance-wise. I have studied the stumptuous articles and a few other pictures for a while, but hadn't looked at them recently.
Well, my form must have been pretty awful, because a gentleman (I think he's one of the rugby coaches) actually got off the exercise bicycle to come and correct me, very nicely. And when I got home I practiced some more with the broom and also my hand weights, because the stance feels kind of awkward to me, and I have a lot of trouble keeping my shoulders from rounding down (especially since without any weights on it the bar is pretty much at floor level).
I tried to find some action shots online and realized that most of them actually show a different stance to Krista at Stumptuous. She shows more of a squatting or crouching stance, with a low pelvis and pretty upright back, compared to say, this guy at stronglifts who has higher hips and has back inclined more forward. Stronglifts guy also says specifically that the deadlift is not like a squat. I think that's what coach guy was trying to tell me to do.
When I tried the higher hip stance it is a bit easier to keep my back straight and feels a bit less awkward: when I do the Krista crouch I don't quite know how to get the bar past my knees for one thing, because they are sticking out in the way as I go up. (Maybe I have a shorter torso than she does?) But I don't know if the more bent-over form is something that will be horrible for my lower back.
Any tips or suggestions on what to do here?
ETA: Also, hands inside or outside knees? Most of the directions say feet should be "shoulder width apart", but also your hands are supposed to be "shoulder width apart". They don't show where to put your hands though.
Last edited by bronzeager; 02-01-2011 at 07:12 AM.
There are various forms of deadlifts-the straight leg or the "krista crouch" and numerous others. Deadlifts with dumbells feel completely different to me, and don't require some of the nuances of technique that a barbell requires.
If you are NOT doing straight leg lifts, krista's starting position is where you want to be. look ups slightly, keep your hips slightly above your bent knees, your shoulders back and above your hips, and your back straight. As you come up,push down on your heels and pull yours knees back before you stand. The bar should ride up your shins and thighs. Honestly, if you scrape your shins, you are doing it correctly. Come to a complete standing, lockout position with your shoulders back.
Note that powerlifting deadlifts and "regular" deadlifts are pretty distinct, with PL deadlifters tending to have higher hips, more back engagement and less glute engagement (relatively speaking). The strongman and, it sounds like, your volunteer coach are describing the PL form. Nothing wrong with it, but for a beginner I'd stick to something that's less risky for your back.
Also, on Krista's form, note that she has short legs. (Hence the name of the site, stumptuous.) If you're taller or just have long legs, it will be harder for you to go that low with the hips and still keep your back upright. I'd still go low and keep your chest up as much as possible, but realize that you may have to have a sharper angle at the hip just because of the way you're built.
I wear long pants on DL day. When I forget, I wear my scrapes with pride!
As for the hands question, if you're doing conventional deadlifts, your hands should be just outside your legs, so that's usually a bit over shoulder width apart. Sumo deads (I think the second set of pics on Krista's site) have the hands inside the legs, so shoulder width or slightly narrower is the way to go. Both are great exercises.
Forgot to mention the plate issue. You're right that it's hard to learn proper deadlift form when the bar is unweighted. See if your gym has 5-10 pound bumper or training plates; these are the same diameter as "big girl" plates, but much lighter, obviously. If not, you can put each end of the bar on a 6" box or so to elevate it. Or, start with rack pulls -- essentially, deadlifts with the bar resting on the lowest safety bar setting.
Thanks so much. I will look around for something to raise the bar up, that will help. I think I could actually lift with some small plates, it's mostly getting the bar off the rack without clonking something in the vicinity (like I said it's a very cramped space).
I don't have deadlifts in my current 4 day split routine. I see deadlifts mentioned in many weight training articles, websites. on what days can it be done? My experience with weight training is beginner to intermediate.
my 4-day weight training split
day 1 - back & triceps
day 2 - chest
day 3 - shoulder & biceps
day 4 - legs
Ahh, the "when to program deadlifts" issue. Many, um, vigorous debates have been held in lifting forums on Teh Internets about this question .... The issue with deads, as you know, is that they work legs and back. Put 'em on leg day after squats, and fatigued legs may mean more stress on the back during the deads. Put em before squats, and fatigued legs may mean more stress on the back in squats. Put 'em on back day, and you're working legs on back day, which may not be ideal because it eats into recovery/growth time from leg day. It's a conundrum, wrapped in an enigma. OK, maybe not.
Anywho, if I'm doing a body part split, I put deads first thing on back day. So, the split might look like this
workout A: legs (squats, leg curl, lunges, calf raises)
workout B: chest/shoulders (bench, dips, OH press or lateral raise, pushups)
workout C: back/biceps (deads, pullups, rows, curls)
The nice thing about this split is that I can lift MWF, giving me a day off between lifting for joint recovery and for the muscles to grow. Cardio goes T,Th,Sat (optional; I'll often turn this into an active rest day with my family), and Sunday is a rest day.
On a 4-day split, I'd do L, L, C, L, C, L, R or L,L,R,L,C,L,R, where r=rest, c=cardio. I see from your schedule that you lift 4 days in a row. Is there a particular reason?
deadlift form question
The issue with deads, as you know, is that they work legs and back. Put 'em on leg day after squats, and fatigued legs may mean more stress on the back during the deads. Put em before squats, and fatigued legs may mean more stress on the back in squats. Put 'em on back day, and you're working legs on back day, which may not be ideal because it eats into recovery/growth time from leg day. It's a conundrum, wrapped in an enigma. OK, maybe not. 
