[neurodoc]

So, I've been doing the NROL4W for over 2 months- just started stage 3. Despite the author's assurances that it's really hard to build muscle mass, and women lack the testosterone to get big, I've developed significant size increases (like, over 2") in upper arm girth. Since I've lost over 5 pounds in this same period of time (totally ignoring all the advice in the book about eating at least 1600-1700 cal/day, and keeping my daily calories to ~1300), as well as from the appearance/shape of my deltoids, biceps, pecs etc, I'm entirely certain that this is muscle gain, not fat.

So I did some online searching and found this: http://www.leighpeele.com/bulky-musc...the-definition and this: http://www.leighpeele.com/bulky-musc...-part-deux. It basically states that the assertions of Lou Schuler are false. I don't know why this came as such a shock to me, considering all the women "figure athletes" (what a horrible term) and competitive bodybuilders out there. I guess I just assumed that any woman who had "man muscles" was taking steroids. Wrong. It is apparently quite possible to "look like a man while working out like a woman .

So, while I certainly appreciate any form of exercise that allows me to lose fat while maintaining lean muscle mass, I may need to switch back to lighter weights with more reps, or switch to body-weight resistance exercise routines. Have others of you had this dilemma? Are all of you on this particular board aiming for the "figure athlete" look? If not, what are you doing to avoid getting 15" biceps?

[mkroyer]

Im sorry, where does leigh say that lou is wrong? Leigh is referring to the "plump" or "swole" look, which is NOT muscle mass, but rather increased glycogen and water storage. Id wager if you went on a glyocogen depleting diet for a week (ie no carbs) you would find that youve "deflated" quite a bit! Leigh also talks about how body fat oover the muscles can lead to the appearence of getting bulkier.
And might i ALSO add, that yyou just arent going to BUILD significant muscle mass on a 1300 cal/day diet! it goes against the laws of physics (and i hate making blanket statements like that) In order to build muscle you must be in a cloric SURPLUS, not an extreme defecit. I think what you are definitely experiencing is the "swole effect". Your muscles are just pumped and full. Stop lifting for a week, and go low/no carb, and you will probably be very pleasently suprised, both by your look, AND by a decent decrease in your scale weight!@

(and fyi Leigh gets pissed when shes misunderstood) JK

[sacha]

I would suggest you re-read Leigh Peele's info about body fat percentages. It is simply impossible, physiologically, for you to gain muscle like that in two months on a low calorie diet. Men who eat above maintenance calories, have much higher testosterone levels, and use growth hormones, might gain 2" on their biceps in a few months. And yes, pump is water/fibre tissues swelling.

I understand a lot of women resist weight training for these reasons but the truth is that we need to accept that our body fat percentage levels really do deceive us and make us think there is more muscle than there really is.

You simply do not accidentally end up looking like a figure athlete. Real fitness/figure girls train for at least 2-5 years heavy in the gym in order to achieve that look and an addition 16-20 weeks hardcore dieting to reduce body fat.

Sorry to be blunt, but I believe in dispelling myths that prevent women from getting better results.

[ddc]

Only you know what your body is doing.
If you don't like the results that you're getting, change it.
Cut down on the amount of weight or days per week.
Take some time off and maybe start over in a month or so with a different approach.

Good luck

[nelie]

I'm going to go with the side that says it is most likely water retention in the muscles healing the muscles and most likely not permanent muscle mass. Personally, I'd stick to the program, and see how things adjust in your body. If you don't like it, you can scale back the weights because muscle is hard to gain but easy to lose.