Veggies: all values are for 1 cup raw:
...............................Pro Carbs Fiber Sugar Calories

Spinach 1 cup.......... 1......1...... 1...... 0.......... 7
Swiss Chard 1 cup...... 1.......1......1.......0..........7
Collard Greens 1 cup.. 1........2......1 ......0.........11
Mushrooms 1cup....... 2........2.......1......1.........15
Turnip Greens 1 cup... 1........4.......2.......0........18
Zucchini 1 cup......... 2........4.......1.......2........20
Cabbage Savory 1 cup..1.......4.......2........2........19
Eggplant 1 cup.........1.......5.......3........2........20
Cauliflower 1 cup.........2.......5.......3........2........25
Asparagus 1 cup.......3.......5.......3........3........27
Rhubarb 1 cup.............1.......6.......2........1........ 26
Broccoli 1 cup .........3.......6.......2.........2........31
Cabbage Red 1 cup......1.......7.......2.........3........28
Turnip 1 cup cubes.......1.......8......2.........5........36
Rutabaga 1 cup cubes...2......11.....4 .........8.......50

Now how is it that Eggplant is on the "Occasional"list yet Rutabaga in on the "Select" everyday use list? (look above at their values)If you have 4 cups of Rutabaga a day, that is 200 calories and a whopping 32 grams SUGAR...

The sheet for Phase 1 that I have is dated 05/02/12
Someone please tell me what this means: from that sheet:

"Occasional (you may only choose two items per week from this list)"

OK...haha! So what's that actually mean? That you can pick 2 items, say, Snow Peas and Tomato...and have them BOTH 2 times a week (up to 4 cups of each?)? And really, how many cups of each? way too confusing!

Now back to the veggie list above:
If you have 4 cups of spinach in the day, you only get 28 total calories and 4 total carbs (0 sugars). AWESOME!
If you have 4 cups of Rutabaga in the day, you get a whopping 200 calories and a confusing 44 gram total carbs. Are they NUTS! That 32 grams SUGAR and for many people that will knock you out of ketosis. I know for me personally, ANY sugars total for the day over like 8 or 10g and I am OUT of ketosis in a NY minute! Then I can figure 3 days to get back on...I did Atkins induction for over a year (lost 100 pounds) so I "know" ketosis real well and know my body real well.

So why would a person not select the veggies that really will help them stay in ketosis, give the lowest carbs and the least sugars and maximize their program?

And more importantly, why when they make these sheets don't they split up the veggies and save people who care about all this, the work?

Obviously the person who has the 4 cups rutabaga is having 172 calories more that day then the person who has 4 cups spinach, for example.

On this program, thats HUGE! Do that for a week and you consumed 1204 calories more then the spinach eater in this example. When you only get around 735-950 (depending on if protein is chicken, shrimp, fish, sirloin etc)calories a day anyway, you just consumed 8 days worth of caloric intake in 7 days. How can that NOT make you lose less weight then what your real potential could have been. And if it knocks you out of ketosis, you will have even greater hunger, cravings etc until you get back in...

Where is that line drawn by those who compose these sheets? Do they even care about this? I mean I realize the local clinic is a business and they need to keep you buying product...but come-on!

You can read everything out there on ketosis, how many sugar carbs a day can one consume and still stay in ketosis, etc etc...and the real number is different for each of us. I think everyone should start this program and the first 2 weeks right away find out "their number"...and then a person can better select which veggies to eat and if "bars" will be OK for "them", etc...

Like I said, my "sugar number" is like 8-10g a day no matter what form or where it comes from...I also know I cannot consume most ANY sugar alcohols as for "me" they do convert to glucose and knock me out of ketosis...tomatoes will too (for me)...

So knowing my "sugar number" allows me to then select which veggies and how much of each I might have and not jeopardize my ketosis...as my shakes are "0" sugars and I don't do the protein bars and other foods that contain sugar of any amount because I can't...in this way the veggie's I choose help me lose weight and stay in ketosis.

The naturally occurring sugars in veggies will still metabolize in the liver to Glucose (which threatens our ketosis). By doing the IP program we "lower" glucose (and glucose converting foods)consumption enough that thus causes the liver to produce ketones (4 diff types)...3 types of ketones will "feed" us and nourish the brain etc...the 4th ketone type is expelled by our bodies.

So even though I am running on here,...the message is to choose your veggies smartly...if you wish to maximize your weight loss. And YES there are some people who would drop a ton of weight on this program with no regard to sugars, no regard to ketosis because any larger mammal on very low calories will lose weight, period. But doing it "right" you can lose more, and lose it much quicker.

Veggie selection can aid in that pursuit, as not all veggies are created equal even though they might share a section on the phase 1 sheet.
Just saying....

Cheers
jake

Wish I would of saw this before I made my lunch. Chicken A LA King and 2 cups shredded trunip cooked like hashbrowns. Mixed it in with my soup. Pretty good after some seasonings. Now I see the carbs in that..eek!!! Seeing that I haven't made it into ketosis yet. Well maybe I will go with a nonrestricted for a snack. I planned on a spinach and cucumber salad with 8oz shrimp for dinner. Maybe that will make up for it.

Thanks for the info.

-Jennifer

My initial thought is the glycemic index values. I'll try to find time in my day to research further!

Mammoth: Also, one cup of rutabaga is 140g, whereas eggplant is only 80ish-grams, so it literally is more dense and weighs more, to me that would translate to potentially more filling?

H Kaypix:
Agreed,would have to be much more filling...I know spinach is not filling at all! haha!

Hello,

I just converted your data into a table to be visually easier to compare while waiting for an answer

Rutabaga is HORRIBLE at 72 on the glycemic index and eggplant is LOW at 15...Rutabaga is much higher then even sweet potato (61 average can be higher based on variety)... even corn can average 53-72 depending on variety... .so its not the GI...

This is awesome information-- thank you everyone!

So ive been doing reading up on ketogenic diets and it has been said by health professionals of all types that a person can eat 50-100 grams of carbohydrates in a day and maintain a state of ketosis...They say for weight loss on a ketogenic diet that maintaining your daily total carb grams for the day would mean staying at 50 or below... Just so ya know Dont worry too much but i do see your point! I watch what veggies i eat, cause i know they arent all equal!

This is very interesting. I looked up okra (I'm having that now with lunch): http://calorielab.com/foods/okra/155

Food Measure Prot Carb Fat Pts Cals
Okra, (100.0 g) 2 7 0.1 0 31

Interesting - a cup of okra is approximately 8 3" pods.

Oh I just remembered, don't we subtract the vegetable fiber from the carbs to come up with the net carbs?

Thats the wonderful thing about articles...I can show you some that say 30 carbs maximum a day...example is keto.org http://www.keto.org/summary.htm where it states and I quote: "The way to make glucose (a basic sugar) unavailable, is to simply restrict carbohydrate consumption to 30g/day or less."...meanng 30g a day or less for ketosis...

Truth is it really is "individual" and each person needs to find their own "number" if they wish to maximize the potential, and of course if they even care about all this to begin with! haha!

Something else interesting. "swede" is on the Restricted (2x/wk) list, but swede is another name for rutabaga (which on the Phase 1 sheet is unrestricted), so that's an odd inconsistency and I am wondering why it has not yet been corrected by the IP folks since it seems they are pretty vigilant in reviewing, reassessing, etc. Anyone have thoughts on that?

ok this is scary!!

Silly question - but 1C is 8 ounces. Can we measure our raw veggies by weight rather than how much we fit in a cup? I have not really been good at measuring things yet to be honest, and have no food scale - yet. Cubed, chopped, shredded - would make a difference on what that measurement actually is for total zuccini if I am trying to fit it in a cup.

1 cup is 8 fluid ounces....so yes, you would need to stuff that zuker into a measuring cup! Once you know how much is a cup as measured, you can weigh it...and then after that just go by that weight...but I would rather see you try to stuff as much as you can into a measuring cup...haha!
I think usually it is based on 1 inch cubes but not sure....
Cheers
Jake