Hi all- good job Jenny- you are an animal! Way to go! Good to see you back Cap. Sorry about your period of insanity- I certainly can relate- carbs are crack for so many. So very addictive. For those of us who have carb addiction, it is interesting to study changes that happen in the brain when we are exposed to simple sugars. -opens up the pleasure centers in the brain that tell us more more more. Makes me so mad that I am one of those poor saps! am trying hard to get back on the wagon of phase 1 until I get back down to where I want but seem to have some need to sabotage myself after 4-5 days. Trying to climb out of the swirling vortex of carb ****!

Ha! Thanks! I am certainly the kind of person that once I set my mind to something, I just do it and am pretty focused about it. Feeling good again today, the skirt I am wearing feels ALMOST like it should, but certainly a million times better than it did 2 weeks ago.

Carbs be damned! They ARE addictive!

maile I did some research on the web yesterday and tried to find the study(ies) you quoted or some version of them. Can you help me? I couldn't find it, but maybe I was 'googling' the wrong form of the item. Apparently "weight maintenance comparisons with leptin hormones 20%" or "please just find me what I want in my head" doesn't work.

Jenny Well done! To quote determined "animal!"

My one day with a shake for breakfast and super clean (had my usual night snack) was an over compensation and I was fine the next day (down four), sure probably would have been fine with some regular eating and hot lemon water (to flush was obviously salt). Goes to show I still have anxiety about the scale, however I know my anxiety is no where near it used to be when I started maintenance...so I'll still consider it progress.

As for carbs being addictive....when I was on my trip in Europe, I havta admit that the last 5 days just were "GIVE ME FOOD I DON'T HAVE TO PAY 50 POUNDS FOR" so we went to McDonalds a few times (3 time in the last 5 days I think)... One day I had lunch (no McDonalds), it was a club house, so yes...three slices of bread...bacon, mayo...it was all there! Then!!! 1 hour later I'm starvin' marven!

I had a massive internal conversation "You are NOT hungry, this is your insulin spiking and dropping...pay attention because after what you just ate you should NOT be this hungry so no you cannot have ANYTHING!" - mean while I was hangry (hungry/angry) and ready to gnaw my arm off. So I fully agree and believe that carbs are an addiction and cyclical...you have too much...you want more...you feel like crap but you want MORE MORE MORE!

So, I need to share, I'm a little upset but a poster who put on a thread on this site:

"many people, especially those with a lot to lose, will just give up in the face of slow weight loss because they figure it just isn't worth it."

...I don't want to respond to this poster because I don't want to get in to it (it will only result in a nasty back and forth which I don't need right now). But I really feel upset by this statement, the old me is crying inside. In fact, I have a lump in my throat while typing this. Why is it, that some people think that when we are super obese that we don't care, or think we're not worth it....maybe JUST maybe...it's a feeling of overwhelmness...and not knowing where to start. <sigh>

I'm not maintaining (someday!), but I read this thread, as I love hearing from those who are so successful.

This statement from that person upset me too. It missed the point, that carbs and sugar are so very addictive to us, and that unless you find a diet like IP, you're pretty much lost, and not sure of what to do and how to handle these addictions. It's a trap that isn't easily resolved.

But then, that poster doesn't do IP, and doesn't seem to have much respect for those of us on this diet, nor for the diet itself.

So hugs to you, Ishbel, People can just be so mean to those who are overweight, and they just don't understand how we feel or our journeys. Compassion is sometimes so lacking.

Ishbel-between the cost snd the quality of food in London I'm not sure why everyone isn't obese! I struggled there too to find healthy and reasonably affordable options.

One month of Maintenance DOWN! I have to confess though, this last week was a doozy. My TOM is still pretty wonky, I was hoping it would settle down now that I am in maintenance, but it decided to be 2 weeks late and the Horrormones were pretty vicious.

Basically, I failed the challenge last week - I only worked out 1x and my eating, while it could have been worse, was marked by a few 'mini-binges' involving nuts and peanut butter. I did keep to the P4 fat/carb separation, but the portion controls were definitely not acceptable. I logged nothing in fatsecret last week.

This week I did P1 Sun-Tue, P3 Wed, and am doing P2-ish today through Sat afternoon. Logging All Of My Food Is Key! I plan on a 'cheat meal' Saturday night. Happy to report I was able to drop from 147 on Sunday (yikes!) and back down to 142 this morning. I'm trying to stay +/-3lb around 140 on my home scale, so still in the safe zone.

I had an "I don't really care" attitude last week that scared me. It has me back in the saddle this week - I'm hoping to settle into more of a pattern not governed by stupid TOM.

I totally agree - I've been trying to figure out the best way for me to "live" and this seems to be a good path for me. Last week, while a bit out of control, I did find myself 'low carb binging' - although it was High Fat Stuff (The Atkins Binge)!

BIG HUGS TO YOU ISHBEL!!!! I also refrain from responding to certain posters, particularly those that show lack of respect and empathy for others. It's just not worth the back & forth. You are living, breathing, super-hot, gorgeous proof that YOU ARE WORTH IT.

And Thank You so much for being my shoulder last week...needed my Buddy Boost and you were there for me! Oh - and I am SOOOOOO going to be adding "Hangry" to my repertoire!

Question for all you wonderful and successful people! Congrats to every single one of you. I am truly in awe of all you have accomplished.

Now the question. I'm not due to be in maintenance for months, but I'm looking at Phase 4, and I'm wondering how successful Vegetarians are on it. I really would like to phase off of all the fake meats, as that has never been part of my lifestyle before, but it looks like beans can only be eaten at dinner, so lunch seems like it will be fake meat.

So any Vegetarians in maintenance? I'd love to hear of your experience.

Thank you!

Hi.
This is one of those "stay tuned" responses.
I had this very discussion with my coach, in terms of how to incorporate protein that is not fake meat. I have to own that I have been having salmon about one time a week, so I hope that doesn't negate my response.

I have been getting breakfast protein from yogurt instead of fake meat.
Lunch I usually supplement the fake meat with cheese and nuts or have eggs.

Dinner is usually fake meat supplemented with beans or rice or potatoes or lentils.

I try to go at least 30g to 40g on just the fake meat portion at lunch and dinner. I think for maintenance we don't need to have an 8oz protein portion at both lunch and dinner, but I haven't made an adjustment downward in that.

Obviously I don't have it figured out yet. I'll be reviewing my food logs against exercise to also see what is going on. I'm sure that I am one of those people that should be eating meat and might have a higher than average protein requirement, even though my blood type says otherwise. The problem I am going to investigate is the number of carbs and sugars coming from the quantities of fake meat. I think I need to adjust my dinner carbs to account for those. I lost pretty slowly on Phase 1 (often under 2 lbs a week, rarely 3 lbs after the first month) yet probably the same or a little more than when I did MRC about 10 years ago, and I ate meat for most of that. They did not use tofu as a substitute for meat and I'm pretty sure I could have some insanely small portion of real foods--10 pecans or 12 almonds twice a week, 1/4 cup lentils and 1/4 cup rice (that diet allowed complex carbs & fruit in very small quantities).

I'll update to this thread and maybe the vegetarian thread after I meet with my coach next Wednesday, provided I have some good info.

Phase 2 was really brutal with the fake meats, because I was using 2 IP packets as a dinner meat substitute quite frequently before I hit goal. I kind of thought I was going to gag on fake meats. Now, if I am doing a P1 day, I forget that I can get by with just having an IP at a meal instead of the fake meat.

I've got a google spreadsheet with all the fake meats I've used listed and their IP portion sizes. PM me if you want me to send you the link.

Thanks, Infoplease!

Having salmon once a week does not negate your response. Although I won't be following that protocol. I do appreciate you responding, as I know there aren't very many Vegetarians on IP.

Are lentils the only beans we can have? I'd hate that, as I love all sorts of beans. When I was eating a good Veggie/Vegan diet, I ate all different types in different ways, and loved them.

I agree that we Vegetarians have to watch the carb count on IP. I know others say to follow the sheet, but our fake meats and tofu, etc., all have carbs in them, that can quickly add up.

I've taken to adding egg whites into my shakes to help make up for the lesser amount of protein and then they have no carbs. And a not Vegetarian thing I'm doing also is taking some Great Lakes Gelatin, which I hate to do, but I'm hoping it will help with any loose skin issue I may have. I take it twice a day, and it adds in 12g protein and 50 calories/no carbs. I hope to not take the gelatin once I'm in maintenance though.

I'm worried about Phase 2 also. I'm still searching for ways to make the fake meat better (taking Boca Burgers and grinding them up, and adding things to them before making burgers again; sausage tvp--stuff I wouldn't normally eat, but it does make them taste better).

I think in maintenance, I'll follow your idea and just have two IP proteins for dinner on P1 days. Good idea.

Again, thank you, infoplease! I truly appreciate it. And do update this thread if you get some more info after you meat with your coach. I'm really hoping you do.

Or maybe we have just tried everything under the sun and after a while it just doesn't work and we get frustrated? Not knowing that it was really the carbs and the sugar that we continued to eat that were preventing us from reaching our true potential. I know for me, I can cut calories all I want, but if a majority of them are coming from carbs, I WILL NOT lose weight.

Why can't people just accept that sometimes it is just a matter of finding what works for YOU. Just because my friend lost 30# doing weight watchers and eating all their crappy carby snacks but staying in her point range, doesn't mean I am going to have the same results. MY body cannot handle carbs (too many). Plain and simple.

Sorry I went off on little tangent, but clearly this is a sore spot for most of us here.

Yes, I have definitely realized that I have to avoid simple sugars. Period. No matter what day of the week it is or time of the year. They don't lead anywhere good. Determined you have to break your 5 day barrier! You can do it! You know when you have to be wary of yourself... so maybe on Day 4 & 5 you tell yourself you can have something on Day 6? Just lure yourself past even if it's only by a day. Perhaps if you can break that cycle you may feel more confident in staying the course?

Determined: The swirling vortex of carb was well said. I also cannot handle sugar and refined carbs. I stay away from them. Hope you get to day 5.

Ishbel: On this site go to Living Maintenance. The go to the sticky Sticky: Some Answers About Genes, Environment, Obesity and Maintenance ( 1 2 3 4 5). I also googles Leptin and weigh loss or weight management.

People are often cruel to the obese. Yesterday there was a TV newscaster who received and negative email from a viewer. She has been on talk shows condemning his response. I wish people would be kinder.

Starshine: I dont eat meat for breakfast and use yogurt as the protein also there is protein in my pancakes. I also eat tofu and endame. I believe you can eat any type of bean. I would just watch my carbs, keep them low while eating vegetarian..and like you said supplement with egg whites or protein powder.

I make a tofu quiche..I also make vege tacos with the morningstar sausage.

Thanks so much for your response, Maile! I do love beans, but they tend to be high in carbs (granted high in fiber also), so would I count net carbs then? I know I have to just watch how my body responds.

Thanks again, Maile!

Thanks everyone...I know it's a touchy subject but BOY did that bother me...then again. I have more important things to worry about in my life than a silly comment like that

So, today it's -7 this morning...I ache...ALREADY!!! UGH...so so cold that I'm getting tired of hearing myself whine about the cold can't imagine how others feel

So it's thanksgiving this weekend and we've decided to delete some of the stress of the holiday and just go out for supper so I don't have to worry about cooking. THEREFORE, that will be my 'fun day'...being that it's a three day weekend that means I eat 'normal' without a work schedule to help keep me on track tomorrow. SO, I've made a schedule and I'll be doing yard work (much needed yard work) for the morning and some very specific house cleaning in the afternoon.

If IP taught me anything, it was how to plan...think ahead and know what the obstacles are and work around them or with them to come out ahead.

Hope everyone has a wonderful day...I'm probably going to spend some money on sweaters this weekend...I don't have very many as I hit goal in the spring.

later skaters!

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