heh heh heh.... that could be misconstrued in some very incriminating ways Red!!!!!! ROFLMBO BTW... you DO know that you rock right? How many challenges have you done this time? and does this mean that you are leaving us... I don't understand how it all works... do we go with you to the new thread or continue on this one??? Where will we be without our fearless leader???

Zen- I didn't mean to offend you... and honestly there are lots more scary things out there to be eating I know. I was trying to be light hearted. On the happy note... I really like that blinkie you used... someone needs to teach me how to do those!

Jolly- Dang girl! You rock too! I can't go to a store and not have at least ONE porn item scream at me. I think you are awesome for sticking with it so well. Inspiring... trully.

Well... I'm here. I'm drinkin water... I'm thinking about working out we'll see how I do... TTFN!

Slow is good Jolly... Slow means its fat u are losing and not just water weight! slow means u are losing and building muscle!!!

Okay, I've got a problem here. I don't want to make anyone upset or anything, which is why I won't quote anyone's posts or mention names.
I think that the food porn issue is going a bit too far. With the way things are going, it'll soon be considered food porn-ing to mention any food.

Obviously, there are food items which can be regarded as "food porn" by anyone. I won't name them specifically because it's not wanted here, but think we all know what they are. I think we can all agree to that.

But it's turning out that any person on this thread can have a problem with pretty much any food product mentioned by someone else, in a sense that reading about someone eating, for example, an apple, might make them want to eat or overeat or indulge or whatever. And thus this person might consider an apple to be food porn. That's going a bit too far, IMO, and unfortunately this is the way we're heading here.

I don't think that a request to keep food lists to a minimum will achieve anything - because we'll never reach a comprehensive agreement on what is food porn and what isn't. Also, even if someone has a known-to-be-food-pron-food-item in a small & specified quantity, that's not food porn. There is nothing wrong with having a bit of something, and I think each person knows themselves, their habits and tendencies well enough to know whether that is an indulgence or pigging out or overeating or lack of control or whether it was a conscious choice.
I also don't think it's fair to people who have food-related challenges (posting what they ate, or making healthier choices with food or whatever) to request that from them. Unless there is a specific rule - no food diaries, no food lists, or whatever.
Part of being accountable is being 100% truthful and recording all the details about food. If that's what their challenge is, they should be allowed to do it. I believe that stating "food porn" goes neither with accountability nor with the challenge. With food, specifics are very important - what and how much. Besides, if someone can just say "food porn" and not detail what it involved, well, what incentive there is NOT to eat food porn or not to eat more of it? After all, they aren't allowed to state what specifically they ate and how much, so how does it matter whether it's a bit more?

Don't want food posted on the thread or worried about food porn? Then there should be a specfic rule about that.

Hi Little Ladies,

I have a suggestion for the food porn situation. No one is to mention any food at all in their postings. They could maybe add that they would like to share what the food was. Anyone interested can contact that person personally to get the "dirty details". Also I would like to know if the person who starts a thread is somewhat an owner of that thread, if so, all participants should follow the rules they set forth. But it just my thoughts and like I said thisis just a suggestion. This is such a great thread. I really would hate to see someone not benefit from it because of something as simple as wording. Take care.

day 2...[ under 60 carb challenge ]

57 carbs total

Another successful no-wine day.

And here's my take on the whole food porn issue. The whole thing started after someone (don't remember who, might have been me) posted a loving, mouth-watering, detailed description of excessive indulgence in some forbidden sweet or something. The description was so graphic it qualified as food porn, and awakened guilty longings - and more than one dietary slip - in those who read it. Hence the original ban. Since then, I agree that the whole thing has gotten a little silly. While I've never been interested in reading detailed accounts of anyone's food day (including my own) I see no harm in a passing mention of food or drink. There's a big difference between : 'Invited out to dinner last night, managed to limit myself to two slices of pizza' and 'The triple meat-lover's pizza was great, -stuffed crust, big juicy , double - not to mention the ooey-gooey dessert with ...'

Maybe we can take a vote. My choice would be to save the food lists for FitDay or a food diary thread, but drop the ban on unembellished passing mentions of occasional bites and sips.

Almost any mention of a consumable COULD offend or tempt someone. The vegetarians really don't want to hear about meat, the lushes amongst us are susceptible to stories of indulgence at the pub, junk food junkies salivate at the mere mention of pizza or a . Maybe we can all make an effort to avoid writing tempting accounts that dwell lovingly on our slip-ups, and apart from that just show some judgement without any blanket bans?

Any other opinions? As for Tia's question, the one who starts the thread usually makes the rules that shape it. But even a like Red might listen to the peanut gallery's dissenting opinion from time to time... Usually if someone really doesn't like the style of a thread, they just look for one that's a better fit or start a new one.

Hmm food porn discussion.
I seem to agree that sometimes I'd like to mention my small slip-up because I want to demo and feel proud, that I was able to control and limit myself with food porn items. Of course each one of us does sets different goals, and perhaps high carb items will be too tempting for low carb group and so on.
I don't have a clear solution, but I'd say "if food porn was over eaten - censor it, if it was a small slip-up mention it w/o giving juicy details".
As for me today was Feb. 13 and I did write my status earlier. Now I shall make some corrections:
In summary for today Feb.13
A (3-0) Gym: on HOLD - no I did bicycle carefull with my knee. Day 1 (more below)
B (2-0) H2O: Day 1 today
C (2-0) Food: Day 1 today
D (3-0) Carbs: on HOLD
E (3-0) Lunch: Day 9 today
So about the gym. Two friends called today as I drove home, reminding me to head to the gym. Both knew that I had the knee problem and both recommended concentrating on sitting down activities not putting too much presure. I had no plans of visiting the gym, so I stopped at home. My ex knocked at my door 10min later. We sat around and talked, he came to comfort me and to help me in case I need anything. I suggested eating out, hence screwing up my Challenge C (food), but he surprised me saying that he will eat at home and I should go to the gym and work on my other body parts, so that these injuries stop for good and I am a more happier person. I am sad of course, as I'd hoped we'd go out tomorrow, but yet I am glad, that he wants me to do what's right for me. With everyone on my side, I changed and headed for gym (sorry for the long story), there I spoke to a trainer who recommended a few excercises, and did some simple test on my knee, to see how bad it was. Not great, but my muscels are badly pulled in the back of the back, where all nerve endings are, hence it hurts to walk and bend the knee, but I think in 2 weeks I will be better. I am not quitting my gym challenge, range of motion and amplitude of workouts is reduced, but I will not agree to gain, no way... I am crying, but I will find that optimism in me.... I know I sound silly, even I dont' believe 100% but I must say/write this in order to find ability to believe in thy self.
Thank you guys for your ongoing support.

Happy Valentine's Day !!! Challengers



-------(-----@

Good morning, all. Cbeta, I have to tell you, when you said you were crying and not believing yourself 100% - sometimes you have to fake it 'til you make it. I am so happy you went to the gym, and figured out what you can do, until you heal and to help you heal. That is HUGE. You made yourself and your health a priority - Way to go girl. You have to give yourself some love and a lot of kudos for that. Baby steps.

As for the food porn. . . OK. I have to admit, I have a 3 year old's sense of humor, and I enjoy using the and and whatever. It makes me giggle. But I think originally it was not about admitting to slipups, but folks lovingly raving about what they indulged in. But, I also think the food lists themselves could stay in your own journal, fit day, or a food log thread, and keep this for the wonderful support of our journey. We need all the help we can give each other. Let's just come to an agreement and not let something as silly as break this up.

Red, what are your thoughts??

I think you couldn't have said it better, jolly....thank you!!! I'll GET IT IN WRITING at the start of the new thread, which I'll have started in the next day or two. And this is taking into account all that has been said, but most of all it takes into account the kind of thread I, me, moi envision. I am the one who has to stick it out even when I'm not getting support, even when there are no posters, even when I don't feel like posting, welcoming people who never appear again, looking for people who haven't posted in a long time, going back and reading all posts and THINKING about what the people are doing in order to make a somewhat relevant and personalized AND encouraging comment if I can, not wanting to comment on someone who shows no support for others but doing so nonetheless...and all that kind of stuff.

I hope we can get the focus back on important things on this thread, back on what I thought was a pretty supportive place. Structure and rules are necessary to keep a big thread going. It's fine for those who come and go and pop in when they feel like and waffle on about what they're doing without much care about the long list of others, but I'm not supposed to go off except when I am very busy and that's where people who know the rules have always helped out. And I don't like neglecting people who need support. That is what this place is for. But, I don't have unlimited time. This doesn't bring me any money.

I sincerely hope those of you who don't like the rules here will just move to a more suitable thread for you, one where you feel more comfortable. There is a great choice of them. Absolutely anyone can start a new thread. Please do so if you like, a new challenge, a new support group, whatever.

The whole food porn discussion depresses me no end. Although there have been some excellent comments and I am taking them ALL into consideration with the new "THREAD GUIDELINES" aka RULES!!!, all I really want to say is get the focus back on the challenge and, excuse my Japanese, but please, let's cut the crap...I mean cake....I mean...I mean...I am going to bed!! Good night.

OKAY. The day I posted my food log, I was PROUD of myself for not over-indulging in any one item I ate, even though I didn't stick to my oatmeal challenge that day. I guess I thought the group of people here was a little stronger than that. Come on people. Just because I mention that I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich doesn't mean you have to go to your kitchen and dive into your Welch's grape jelly and a loaf of bread. It's not like I said, "I just had the most delicious PINT of Ben and Jerry's!" You're going to run into obstacles EVERY day of your life. You're going to walk down the isles of the grocery store. You'll be offered food from coworkers and friends. You'll go out to eat and have to make healthy food choices. You see, I'm not the only one who lists food items on here and there's NO fine line. Someone, as I recall, mentioned cream cheese. Cream cheese reminds me of bagels. Bagels are very much a binge food for me. Did I go out and buy one? No. I'm trying to fight this, too. In life, you have to take the good with the bad. You get support here. If you can't handle a food log, you have a long road ahead of you. I wish you the best of luck.

Hi Red,

I've been visiting your thread after you've joined ours ~ out of curiosity, and I'm loving it so far.......
You've got a nice thing going in here, and the efforts you put in is absolutely unbelievable. I was involved in a challenge thread, but the ones in charge didn't seem so serious about it ~ so needless to say, I drop out of it.

May I join your group when you start your new thread?

Hi, I'm brand new to this website so I'm not real sure about the 'rules'. Any suggestions would be appreciated. New I might be, but I am very interested in the 21 day challenge and would like to start. If I get this, I am to make my own challenge for myself. Is there a "list' of personal challenges that people have given themselves? I love stealing wonderful ideas. But for now, assuming I'm to make my own challenge, here goes:
1. NEVER read when I eat. I love reading and can eat an hugevolume of food without even being aware of it. I also find eating all by itself is a bit boring.
2. Walk the dog for an hour a day. We both need the exercise!

Wow - I'm off the wagon for a little while and I come to check in in my usual lurking fasion of late and there's a genuine heated discussion going on. As for my two cents abotu the whole food porn thing - I can take it or leave it personally, as I am generally not tempted by other people's mentions of food. However, I do agree with the sentiment that if you have a food - based challenge, then it makes sense to be able to talk about food. I'm sure, however, that our fearless leader will come up with a guideline that takes everyone's opinion into account and is the best solution she can find to the problem. By the way, Red - I think you are awesome and appreciate what you do immenseley. Without this thread I would have fallen waaaay off the wagon long ago and would not have been able to meet two of my three mini goals that I set for myself.

As for those who waffle on to post their own updates without any care for the others, I couldn't help but wince a bit at that. Just a note from one who could potentially be regarded a such a "waffler" - I do read each and every post and try to keep up with what's going on in everyone's challenge/lives - lately I have only been posting brief updates because that is all that I've had time/energy to do, but I do actually care what's going on with everyone. This is not meant as an attack or rebuff to anything that anyone has said about this at any time - merely a heads up to let everyone know that I am still here - I am not leaving, nor am I fading away - I am just a little caught up extraneous stuff right now and am working my way back to posting responses to everone and being a more active participant.

Anyway - I have to be off to school now - but on a side note, I made my Valentines day Goal weight.

Keep on Truckin
Erin

I just felt like I had to post quick. First off, Chai - you met your challenge! I'd say your are on the wagon. Way to go.

I have been posting on and off on this site for a couple of years now. I have seen threads come and go, and started my own threads which have come and gone. I hate to see this great thread Red has started go that way, over something fairly simple. Zen, I understand what you are saying - this is not like alcoholism, where we can just say we will never go near our "trigger" again. Food is all around us, and we do need to learn how to cope with it on a day to day basis. This is true. But everyone here is at very different steps in that process. I have been battling this for a long, long time. And am finally taking baby steps in the right direction that ARE STICKING. That is because I come here for support to help me deal with those things out in the real world.

But again, I think there is a difference between a food log, and someone who is rapsodizing about falling off the wagon. Healthy eating, and binging. So, we need to figure out what we want and need.

Elyn, since I am already being a big mouth (sorry Red :, of course you can join. Anyone is welcome. And for both you and Elaine, Red usually puts "rules" in the first post of the thread. Unfortunately, there isn't a solid list of challenges, Elaine - you kind of have to read back, and see what everyone is working on. but your challenges sound great!

Have a GREAT day everyone. Keep up the good work.