kdl - as one who has also struggled with being overweight since 6/7 years old, I admire your dedication to your son.
Have you done any research into what types of eating plans might best suit him? Ie - Mediterranean?, paleo? Semi-low carb? Obviously cutting out the pre-processed foods will be huge. Like you said, you certainly don't want it to be a punishment & one of the hardest issues will be dealing with school food.

I also echo 3dogs sentiment and hope you still check in with us from time to time.


Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

I hit another IP wall today, but it is so good to be able to listen to my body now. I don't think about the effort that goes into house cleaning - and between that and the 2 miles I walked this morning, had to have some extra lunch today - started with a spinach salad / Quest BBQ chips (which I guess could be considered 'snack' now), but started feeling woozy and lightheaded. Went back for 1C cauli-rice and (unmeasured) some leftover ground turkey. Feeling great now

Also, a fairly major mile marker...198.4 on the scales this morning! I think I can officially say I am back in "onederland"!

beth I was really hoping you would have that news this week! Congrats!!

Woohoo Beth!! Congratulations on hitting the 100s.

3Bigdogs- I'm no going anywhere. I like my friends here at 3fc!!

Destony- You'll probably have jump a pant size. A big jump all the sudden I bet.

I've read that many continue to loss during p2. I hope I'm one of those lucky people.

It's my plan to start family on a semi-low carb eating program. This way we can all eat the same thing at dinner. I was thinking about allowing a cheat day for DS if he stays active during the week. I can't figure out if this is a good ideal yet. I'm clueless hence my weight issue. Interestingly, I feel like I'll be getting more out of this than DS. I have to try something, right?

I'm sorry a pediatrician was so openly blunt with your son about weight issues, and distressed him. That's sad that he was so hurt that he left in tears. Maybe you should relay this information back to the offending doctor so it helps moderate the way in which such subjects are broached with future patients.

I'm surprised that you were given such terrible instructions. Logically a child should be referred to a dietician or nutritionist who could help you build a plan around foods that your child not only likes, but is able to eat. No allowance was made for any intolerances or allergies and that is very worrying - even to me, and I am not a parent (if you don't count the paw variety of child).

Low carb may not be the best answer for your son. I say this because we have no control over their activity levels while at school. Brain activity is just as important as physical movement and that does take carbs. While ketones will fuel the brain, it would be new to your son's body and the last thing you want is to see him struggle with any dizziness, lightheaded and associated blood sugar swings.

Seriously, see a pediatric nutritionist and get a food plan put in place. It should probably be something like calories in versus calories out, because children should never be excluded from any food group (they are growing, they need nutrients from everything), but you could teach him the basic plate rules of veggies (half a plate) to carbs (quarter of a plate) and protein (quarter of a plate) so he understands the basics of healthy choices. 9 isn't too young for him to grasp that what goes in has an effect.

On the subject of phasing off to do more exercise - if this isn't what you want, then don't do it. Many of us are exercising and still losing while in ketosis. Some run 5k, some do heavy cardio sessions, some lift weights and some do a combination of all three. The only thing you need to remember is to keep an eye on how you feel - if you are doing sustained exercise for 45 mins or more you will likely want to put an extra packet in. Trust me, IP is very doable alongside exercise, it just takes a little thought and a little more planning (making sure you carry water and that extra packet or ready made drink).

Again, I'm sorry for the distress you and your son have suffered and I hope you can find a great way for your family to lose weight and live healthy lifestyles together.

Thank you Amanda. I always find many answers in to questions that I don't know to ask. I'm really at loss. I really don't want to phase out so I'll try adding another packet to see if I can handle it.

I was very upset at the doctor for handling it in such a manner. DS is 9 not 16. He's still a little guy mentally. People forget that fact. DH and I are sitting down to figure out what we will be eating this week. We thought more lean protein, salads, and healthy choices. I think an appt with a dietician is a great ideal.
I really didn't want to phase off. I'll try the extra packet today and see how it goes. Off to the gym.

You and hubby are on the same page, right? I only ask b/c my mom was vigilant...maybe hyper vigilant about what I was eating at home and my dad over compensated by taking me out to places like "Shakeys" and "Godfathers Pizza" (local places that have been gone since my childhood) - so I learned (by the ripe age of 8/9) about binge-eating.

I would also suggest having him tested for food sensitivities / allergies. When I read that he can 'out-eat most adults' it makes me think this may be more a physical reaction (ie - he doesn't know when he is full?). Maybe to gluten? I know this is the big 'catch phrase' right now, but the more I read, the more I try to make sure DD10 isn't exposed to as much gluten as she used to be.

Working today - trying to work more like it lol...Capitals playoff game against the Islanders is on right now yelling at the TV more than I'm working

Bounced back up 2.5 pound this morning - wasn't carbs yesterday (had Quest chips but they've never bothered me before), so I am thinking sodium - had jicama / cilantro with lime last night. Or exercise...not too bothered (a little or I wouldn't mention it) but of course would love to see the scale stay in the "1"s for more than a day

Hey Beth That scale will be back down tomorrow, I bet.

BriaelIt seems you may have a background in healthcare and I was wondering if you think lean mass should increase as we are losing weight. Every week my lean mass stays the same which is wonderful. I like knowing that I'm not losing that. But I am wondering if we should be looking for it to increase even while the fat p/c is going down. Any idea?

This is a good point, KDL. Not just for food sensitivities, but I was watching another UK program about weight loss and it seems that roughly a third of the population has issues with ghrelin (made by the fat cells and increases hunger) and leptin (made by fat cells and decreases hunger). It may be worth getting a fasted blood sugar test done, too, in case he has insulin sensitivity. Many doctors look at problems with a single focus, rather than viewing the body as a whole and accepting that we aren't just calories in/calories out - we have hormones that drive our actions as well as our (bad) habits.

Beth - don't worry about those upticks, they happen to all of us. Just watch the moaning commence in the Summer 2014 thread when we bounce around all over the place!

I have no medical training at all, sadly - all the information I relay here comes from reading lots of articles within the dieting and holistic health community blogs online, and associated links to supported studies and trials.

I was a child when my dad almost died from his first heart attack, I have a childhood onset type 1 diabetic sister and a family with a history of hormone based cancers so I grew up with an interest in all things medical (probably self-preservation), and I have a lot of time to browse articles on the internet. I am a "link clicker" of anything that looks even vaguely interesting.

With lean mass it isn't as simple as saying it should increase while body fat percentage decreases. It is always going to fluctuate because lean mass isn't simply muscle - it's tissue, water, blood, spinal fluids and stomach acids. These are NOT consistent every time you get weighed.

If you are exercising heavily (mainly weights as they force the muscles to breakdown and need to repair) you may see gains in lean mass - partially for muscle development and more likely due to more fluid retained as muscle needs more water for hydration and recovery.

I need to do some further browsing for a more detailed analysis on this, but take a look at Ankerl's keto calculator - scroll down until you see the body fat percentage section. If you play around with the BF% value you will see that the lean mass also changes. Sometimes as the BF goes down, the lean goes up.

Thanks Amanda - I'm a realist and know I am going to bounce for various reasons - it's just a little frustrating to see that "1" twice in the last 5 days and then watch the scale pop right back up into the "2"s - for no real discernible reason other than "just is".

I am following y'all's group (& others) imho, its a good idea to watch and see how people further along have dealt with the problems and pitfalls I am running into at my stage in the journey

Thank you everyone for all your support and information. Dh and I will be sitting down tomorrow to discuss our plan of action. We both need to be on board in order to set our DS up for success.

Today, I ate an extra packet and worked out. I felt a little dizzy but it could have been the heat. Also a little nauseous.

On a humorous note, several times today I thought the toilet seat was up when I sat down. I have less a*s than before so the seat feels bigger.

This could also be a low sodium level. When I first started running I carried a sachet of salt with my water bottle. It helped until my body got used to running on fumes.

Love the toilet seat anecdote - sounds totally like something I would do, especially in the middle of the night! LOL

That is so awesome Beth!! Congrats!

Thanks Briael, this is timely advice - I just picked up a book on bodyweight training and I'm going to start doing some of the exercises a few times a week. It is like a switch has been flipped in the last couple of weeks and I suddenly made it out from the diet fog and I'm itching to MOVE and kick things up a notch. I'm sure the great weather here has something to do with it. Today I laced up my runners and wore a sports bra, and my morning walk with the dogs turned into a couple of short runs! The kind where it is just FUN, not a near-death experience. I was really happy with that. Not planning on pushing it too any extremes like I have in the past - just keeping things fun and we'll see how it goes!

Gosh KDL what a sad consultation that was. I agree with the others, there is a right way and a wrong way to "tell it like it is" and I'm sorry your family experienced the wrong way. I used to watch a TV show called X-Weighted while I lived in Canada and the doctor was extremely good at talking about the childrens' weights with them, without attaching a value judgement to it. I'd be sure to leave a fair review for that pediatrician online...

I use this calculator a lot to give me an idea of what non-IP weightloss I could expect, which helps me to keep my IP expectations in check. Sometimes it's easy to get sucked into the "IP is Magic" mindset - well it's not magic but it is very effective! My losses have been a bit more than the keto calculator predicts (it HATES the amount of protein we eat ) but overall it's pretty similar. I've got the keto calc data plotted in Excel alongside my daily weigh-ins and it's nice to feel like I'm on track according to a measure that's independent of IP.

I've been pretty thoughtful lately (really seems to be my modus operandi these days) and I dissected how I was feeling about my comparatively lackluster WIs. My WI-envy came from looking at all the hugely drastic goal posts (>100 lbs lost) and suddenly my 13 lbs didn't look so special. But I realized in the last few days that I'm already GOING to achieve my ultimate goal of good health by doing what I'm doing. It doesn't matter what the scale says - if I just do what I'm doing, I won't get morbidly obese, I won't get diabetes II, I won't get metabolic syndrome or all of it's associated diseases. I've read this over and over again - it's not just what the scale says - but for some reason it's really sunk in. I can't ever go back to regularly eating pasta and bread and patisseries, but that's okay, because the alternative is pretty freaking great, and I'm enjoying the h3ll out of the foods I can eat (and that list will just grow when I get to maintenance!)

Well if anyone made it to the end of my post, you get a 0/0/0 cookie, because I often treat my posts as an accountability thing and can wax poetically forever.

TL;DR: I realized my end goal isn't a scale number, but ultimately, my health, which I can't help but achieve by doing what I'm doing. So yay!

Wow you guys have a really been covering a lot of ground this weekend!

3bigdogs I will stay with you - how nice of you to invite me... I just posted a little update on another thread maybe you would like... http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/5155377-post159.html

kdramalover I echo everything everyone else wrote. I esp. liked what Amanda/Briael had to say. I think it's so important that your DS has a trained pediatric nutritionist that can really walk him through how to handle his situation. I almost cried when I read your post. I developed warped thinking around eating at a young age also, and spent most of my life in some level of eating disorder due to undiagnosed medical issues that no doctor took the time to figure out until I basically demanded it in my 40s.
Also I have worked a lot with kids and teens, and they really do need a different kind of support and help, esp. with weight/food, than adults do. They are still growing and the social pressures are so much higher to them. They need help how to navigate all of this, and the WORST thing someone can do is make them feel bad. That is so awful. You have to give them a lifeline - a plan for what they need to do that can actually work for them, and someone to talk to ongoingly to give them support - just like we need on IP. They have no life skills to figure it out on their own.

And also for you, yes, so important that you keep taking care of yourself and having success on program - that will be the biggest support and example to him. Like Amanda I exercised all through IP after the first 8 weeks.

hysteria I remember very well the phase you are entering now. As you get closer to goal, your body will start to hit some walls, esp. when you are more active. Like Amanda said, potassium and salt became much more critical for me, and as I mention in the link above, I also had to add a packet as needed. I remember several 4 to 8 hour heavy house cleaning days where I hit the wall at the end and almost passed out. So I stopped cleaning drank salt/water, had an extra packet, and stopped for the night, and took an easier day the next day.
My doctor kept reminding me that I am doing a bit of a constant little surgery on my pancreas and organs, and I am also in a steady constant mode of basically depleting my body on purpose so that it burns off the rest of the extra fat, so it is not doing to have much "extra' energy to be doing marathon cleaning days.


Good luck!!!!

This morning.....a pair of my thong panties that fit me 30 pounds ago has now become a windmill on my tush. I guess my body has changed after all. I'm off to work so I'll come by again tonight. Happy Monday everyone!!

Yay on feeling great enough to WANT to run, even if it's only for fun and only when you feel like it. Isn't that an amazing feeling that you didn't think you'd get to? This is the best part of IP for me. Once I lost the "heavy" feeling and mindset, I realised that feeling better is SO much more important than looking better. Yes it's great to look better, but ultimately I want to be healthy for the rest of my life, not skinny.

You are perfectly correct on the loss values. It isn't an overnight process and it's not a miracle diet. It's science based and your level of commitment will determine how well you lose. If you are prepared to be OP for as long as it takes, or you prefer to work with the basic IP principles but bend the macros a little in alternatives mode, you WILL get to your goal. I remember looking at Lisa and Ruth Ann's weight loss tickers and thinking that I would never get to 100lbs down, and yet here I am on the threshold. Never in a million years did I think I would get to that number, but it can be done if you are committed to your future.

It isn't so much that you can't go back to enjoying foods that aren't allowed on IP, it's just that you need to exercise caution and moderation if they are foods that you have problems with resisting. For me, the bread family cause terrible gas, bloating and stomach cramps so it's no hardship to forgo them - whereas I find it hard to resist putting a sugar or two in my cup of tea (which is why I only get it as a treat, because who can make do with a single cuppa?) and I like pancakes and waffles and all things sweet breakfast. Hahahah (like most of us, I guess!).

I don't like the word "diet". As it has been so widely associated with a weight loss food plan rather than simply representing the nutritional intake it's become something of a dirty word for me. I think we should really call it like it is - a temporary eating plan from which we build on for maintenance purposes in a way that enables us to enjoy all food groups in moderation, so that we can be healthy.

I don't know if you read the maintenance threads and the October/November 2013 and Summer 2014 starters threads, but I have noticed a common theme as people approach the phasing off P1 and especially into maintenance. Nearly everyone stops focusing on the weight and starts looking at body composition and wanting to exercise to tone up. It's really quite fascinating and I am SO glad that I found 3FC and had all our veteran maintainers and their experiences to guide us. Sharing our experiences helps keep us strong, returns us to the OP path when we stray and gives us people who understand that changing eating habits takes time and a lot of mental commitment.