Indeed. After all, I may be a fat chick, but I also have an amazingly healthy pulse rate, blood preasure, and colesterol level. I think it is becuase, although I have not been good at moderation, I also have managed to avoid the really bad stuff for the most part. Now it is just a matter of dealing with the portion issue and cutting out some of the cheese and chocolate. This is compared to some people who have high blood presure and bad colesterol levels who may be thin but may also be a few steps away from stroking out. Not to say that weight is not important: obviously it is or I would not be here, but I would rather haev to deal with my weight while in general good health than with serious and immediate health issues.

at the same token though I think that one thing we haven't touched on is portion control. IMO it's difficult to blame the fast food industry when as parents and adults we make those decisions and in turn are role models (or not) for a younger generation.

Yes, you're both right about portion control. When I look around at my friends who are thin, or not-so-thin, or really heavy, the main factor in their weights is portion control. And what you say about parents strikes a chord with me. My mother keeps getting bigger and bigger, and it's totally a portion control issue for her. If you put food in front of her, she'll eat all of it. It's like there's nothing stopping her. I could go on about my mother, but it would be wise to stop.

Back in college, I read about a psychology study. It looked at the eating behavior of not-so-thin v. thin people. The experiment was that the participants would go into a room with a plate that had two small sandwiches on it. The experimenters then told the participants that there were two more sandwiches in the refrigerator, if they wanted them. You would think the not-so-thin people would eat all four, right?

Well, that's not what happened. All of the not-so-thin people ate the two small sandwiches that were in front of them. While the thin people went up to the refrigerator to get more.

The idea is that thin people eat according to hunger. Only two small sandwiches on the plate? They'll go to the fridge and get more. Whereas not-so-thin people just eat whatever is in front of them.

Interesting, huh?

I see that in my family!! My husband and my older son are thin, whereas my younger son and I struggle with weight. I have seen my older son decide he is full with a bite of chocolate cake halfway to his mouth. HE PUTS IT DOWN!! I would finish the bite and the rest of the piece on my plate and so would my younger son. DH can't even THINK about food if he is full, but I can obsess about it all day long, full or not. (For example, if I ask him after lunch what he wants for dinner, he'll say, "I'm full right now." To ME that is a non sequitor!!) These differences in my kids have been there since they were very little; I do believe they were born with them. I think anyone in our country can be overweight or out of shape because of our lifestyle; but I believe obesity is a different matter, and is genetically based.

Hi y'all, hope you don't mind if I join in.

A comment SeeCat made sparked my attention: I think everyone learns in school what good nutrition is supposed to be, but I do not know if it sinks in.. To a certain extent I think this is true. I remember learning about the food pyramid in grade-school, but we neve learned what a portion was. When I decided I wanted to lose weight I just happened to be in a college Biology class where we did a unit on nutrition. I never knew that a whole banana was actually usually two portions, or how much cheese was in a portion. Not to mention the fact that if one is a vegetarian the pyramid needs to be totally re-arranged. (Actually, I think now a new pyramid that incorporates vegetarian eating has been devised.) I totally agree that portion control and exercise are the big issues, but what can be done to teach kids about this? I know when I was young I thought I could never get overweight, but here I am now. I'm constantly studying nutrition, just for my own need to know, and if I ever have kids I'll do my best to pass it on to them.

That is a really good point about portion control. It reminded me of when I was in grade school and I was really tiny: I got placed at the "slow eaters" table becuase I would not eat all of the crap that got put on my tray and was stuck there until I either ate all that stuff or was the last one sitting in the cafeteria. This happened till my parents foudn out and boy were they cheesed. And when I think about how much ended up on one of those trays...well it was definately not balanced and certainly more than a little kid should be required to eat. It taught not only poor portion controll but also that even though there was a food pyramid it was not something that actually happened in the real world.

I also agree about the idea of the amount of food being gauged by fullness. I am right now training myself to listen to my body about when and how much I need to eat. If this skill was taught to kids in school maybe it would help. Hard to say.

I guess another aspect of this whole mess is the economics of food. There is a prevailing perception that it takes significantly more time and money to eat healthy foods as opposed to fast food and processed crap. I can sit here and say that this is not true, but then again I am not trying to raise a family or hold down multiple part time low paying jobs, so from my point of relative privilege I cannot say what the reality is for so many families.

Are kids really taught nutrition in school? I remember ice cream and pudding being in the dairy section of the chart, while cookies, white bread, white rice, white pasta were in the grains section, etc. Are they taught that olive oil is better for you than butter or margarine? The relative merits of different fruits and veggies, protein choices, dairy, grains, fats? I certainly don't remember much of that.

And, are they taught by example? Do school lunches represent healthy eating?

While I was working at a canoe tripping summer camp, most kids HATED our granola or oatmeal with dried fruit, brown sugar and milk powder breakfasts, complained about the lunch bread being whole wheat and had never tried barley or lentils when we made lentil stew. It was unusual to get campers who ate even oatmeal for breakfast on a regular basis; they always seemed to think we were holding out on the "good" food for a day or two. Some would try to live the whole camp on the gorp and drink crystals we carried for snacks.

>>that it takes significantly more time and money to eat healthy foods as opposed to fast food and processed crap.

I've heard this before-but it kinda seems like an urban legend to me. Look historically at our grandparents for example. My family ate dinner at home b/c of financial constraints. I think we as a society (pardon my saying so) but have gotten lazy. I think that kids will eat what we let them eat-and if we make it a priority for them to be more knowledgable about healthy eating they will.

I don't think it's the cost in money that makes eating healthy hard. I think it's the cost in time. When I think of my grandparents, I do think of home-cooked meals that didn't cost too much. But I also think of a long time spent in the kitchen. And while fresh vegetables and bread might not cost that much, it's different if you want to eat organic. Have you ever gone to one of those totally organic co-ops? There you pay a premium.

Yeah, back in the day when I was in school the food pyramid had white bread, red meat, and high-fat cheeses. When I was in middle school, our nutrition class was still doing the four-food-groups. We had to break up into teams and cook a meal with all of the four food groups. What did my group do? A cheeseburger with tomatoes, and some orange juice to drink.

I never thought I would be overweight, either, and here I am, too. My mother was always huge and it was due to her obvious weirdness about portion control. I thought, if I don't eat that much, I won't weigh that much. So how did I get this way? I'll have to think about that.

And I'd like to see that vegetarian food pyramid. Do they have them for different types of vegetarians?

I guess it all comes down to whether someone is able to avoid the whole time is money thing. For me, as a single person working one job I have the time to volunteer at my co-op and get the good stuff for cheap and take the time to prepare it. For someone who does not have time... But for me, well, as Greg Brown said (or sang I guess) "time ain't money when all you got is time."

I have not seen the veggie food pyramid. I would be very interested. Do you all remember the discussions that were showing up in the media about the possibility of reforming the food pyramid in response to the whole low carb thing? I wonder if they have relented now that low carb is starting to become less popular.

Also, did anyone see the program that was on a few months ago about the way that the department of agriculture policies about which foods they subsidize heavily (corn) versus those that they do not (green veggies) is leading to some of the problems with the types of foods that are available cheaply (stuff with lots of corn syrup). I cannot remember where I saw it, but it was very iteresting in a paranoid sort of way.

This link has a bunch of different alternative food pyramids.
http://www.oldwayspt.org/pyramids/veg/p_veg.html

Seecat, yes, those subsidies really affect American nutrition.

Only Me, thanks for the link.

The funniest thing about the show was watching Tommy Thompson try to say that there was no relationship between these subsidies and the obesity problem. It looked like he was waiting for someone to throw him a life preserver and it just never happened. It does not suprise me in light of the resistence of our government to support any international obesity program that in any way appears to say that people should eat less junk food or sugar or corn syrup. Too bad the broccoli farmers don't have the lobby power of the junk food industry.

The veggie food pyramid looks great. I feel like I could actually follow it.

So my coworker just got done reading "Fast Food Nation" and even though she is a hunter she has decided to ban from her diet all slaughterhouse foods. Next she is going to read "The Jungle" and that may put her off meat for life.