We're Different
 

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Wow. After reading this I feel it has confirmed all the things I've been wondering to myself. I am different. I had a sneaking suspicion that this wasn't going to get easier. I'm not quite a "maintainer" yet but I have lost 112 lbs and have 19 more to go. Just maintaining my current weight is such a challenge that I'm not sure if I will be able to lose the last 19. This is hard to swallow for me. I can't help but find all of this a bit defeating, as I and others have worked so darn hard just to work even harder. The alternative to all of this is of course far less appetizing than the work. I love my new body, I love my life, and I wanted to feel like I didn’t have to fight for it. Silly me, chin up.

This is the reason I keep reading here. I am nowhere near maintenance yet, but I need to know what it looks like, feels like, and to get it through my thick skull that this will never be over. I will always have a strong tendency to obesity, and the fight will go on for the rest of my life.

I don't want to be a statistic, and I don't ever want to have to go through all this again, this has to be for life.

Thanks for posting this Meg and giving a still obese person some direction and insight.

Amen to everything you said, Kykaree! I know you're going to make it all the way and keep the weight off forever - you've got the right attitude, chickie. :)

*I* sure don't want to be a statistic either - one of those 95% who regain. Just the thought gives me the cold chills. My motto is WHATEVER IT TAKES because that's what I'll do to keep the weight off.

As you said, this is FOR LIFE and when you think about it, it's true in the very best sense of the words -- we are doing this to benefit our lives so indeed it is FOR LIFE. ;)

I dunno. I'm still not completely convinced that we are all that much different. I mean, I've seen people who've never had an overweight problem eating a huge dessert...and we get jealous, right? But 9 times out of 10, they don't do that on a daily basis. They aren't normally heavy eaters, nor do they eat junk food as a daily staple. And of those that do eat junk, they are constantly on the move.

We might feel we have to force ourselves to keep up with exercise, but for myself, I went from a computer junkie/couch potato/desk job person to someone who likes to walk and gets bored sitting too long. I used to be that way in high school and didn't have a weight problem. But I grew out of that mode and ended up being really tired all the time because I wasn't exercising in my day-to-day activities and had to make exercise a priority. If I start to slack off, I start feeling tired again and don't feel like going for walks and moving much. And I don't want that old feeling back.

But the people I've noticed who haven't had weight issues, they never ate as much junk as I did to start with, they never ate as MUCH as I did overall, and they would get out and go shopping when I'd prefer to sit home and watch a movie. So they didn't have to go for a run each day to keep trim because they were energetic all day every day naturally.

I know that won't apply to everyone because some people can be active and still be overweight. But I just seem to feel that we don't have to work harder than people who haven't been overweight for the most part, but we have to work equally. It just doesn't seem as hard to them because they don't actually work at it. It comes natural to them. They get up and move when we may not. So we have to force ourselves to move. Then we see ourselves jogging just to keep our shape and them eating ice cream. Not realizing that they've spent the day on their feet and have probably walked further throughout the entire day than we ran in 30 minutes. Not realizing that they've been up and down the steps at home doing laundry while we let ours set because we just didn't have the energy. Not realizing that the ice cream was the only thing they've had so far today and we've already had a sausage and egg biscuit for breakfast, and a cheeseburger and fries for lunch. I dunno. That's just how it seems to me sometimes.

Hi Heaven – how’s the mama-to-be doing these days? :)

I think you’re absolutely right in the distinction you draw between normal weight people and the way we USED to be. Yep, normal people certainly didn’t eat the junk and calories that a lot of us did and they undoubtedly moved much more. We weren't different back then - we just took in way more calories than we burned and got fat. Clearly there are legitimate reasons why so many of us ended up overweight or obese and I think you nailed them. I have to admit that I earned every one of my 122 extra pounds. :o

The point I was trying to make is that we're different NOW that we’re at a normal weight and the weight maintenance rules that apply to normal people don’t seem to apply so well to us ‘reduced obese’ (as doctors would call us). I’ll use myself as a case in point. For me, maintenance means between 45 and 60 minutes of cardio per day, every day, and lifting weights 4 – 5 times a week, for about an hour. Total = about an hour and a half of intentional exercise every day, on top of what I get working as a personal trainer (and it's a VERY physical job). I have to stay under 1500 calories a day or else I gain – I’m sure of that because I track everything I eat in Fitday every day. Maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t know anyone who’s always been at a normal weight who has to exercise as much and eat as little as I do simply to maintain their weight.

It could be that I’m an anomaly, but I don’t think so based on what others here have posted about their exercise routines and calorie intake. Additionally, the National Weight Control Registry (a study group of 3000+ maintainers) reports that the average maintainer eats about 1400 calories a day and does 60 minutes of intentional exercise. I honestly believe that’s less food and more exercise than never-obese people typically get. As a matter of fact, the latest government recommendations for exercise reflect the realties of weight maintenance by recommending 60 minutes of exercise for weight loss and 60 – 90 for weight loss maintenance. It takes more exercise to maintain a weight loss than to lose it in the first place.

Why? Researchers have established that a large weight loss will lower your metabolism by about 15- 20%. Permanently. So that means that we ‘reduced obese’ need to eat less and move more than people who have always been at a normal weight in order to maintain our weight losses. I attended a lecture given by one of the lead researchers in the field, Dr. Rudolph Leibel of Columbia Medical School, last January - I posted about it here. I spoke with him after the lecture and he talked extensively about his findings and lab. At one point in the conversation, he stared right at me and told me point-blank that though I may look normal on the outside now, physically and metabolically I’m very different than a 'normal person' on the inside. And that he’d be able to determine that with laboratory tests. How weird is that! A doctor can tell that we’ve lost weight through blood tests!

I totally agree with your point that we got obese or overweight by eating more and moving less than normal people. But now that we’ve got the weight off, it seems like we have to eat less and move more than the same normal people. That’s what I meant when I said – we’re different.

I didn't move less when I was overweight, but I ate differently. I've been skiing, hiking, climbing, running, playing tennis, kyaking and lifting weights since I was an early teen, almost forty years ago. I ran two marathons overweight (gee, wonder why my knees are creaky?). To maintain my current weight, I do between 40-75 minutes of HEAVY weight training (depending on the body part du jour) five days a week, and at least half an hour of cardio 4-5 days a week. I have a non-sedentary job lugging weights around a gym, clean my own rather large house, garden, ride my bike for fun, and rollerblade. To maintain, I eat no more than 1400 very clean calories per day. Based on any calorie calculator I've ever seen, I should have disappeared long ago.

I think that's different enough to support Meg's thesis.

Mel

I agree that maintainers are different than people of the same weight who have never had a weight problem, but I think the issues of maintenance are very close to the issues of those who still have lots to lose. Basically, there really IS no maintenance, IMO, you have to keep working on the same level as when you were droppin' a lot of pounds. For some people, like me, that just means continually downshiftin' your original weight goal to keep things interesting. Eventually, it'll level out ... I would not like to be too thin, but I doubt VERY seriously if that'll ever be the case.

I used to think about "maintenance" ... thought I was in "maintenance" when I was at different weights that I liked, but "maintenance" makes things seem too rosy, too easy, like ... now I have arrived at this state and all I have to do is "maintain" ... well, maybe.

So I guess I mean that I don't think "maintainers" are different. We are all engaged in weight management ... one goal at a time, even if the goal is NOT to have a regain.

'Cause without continued work and focus, a regain is a given

I think one thing we have to be careful of is that even as reduced obese there are differences between us. I think the studies that are done are interesting and sometimes quite helpful, but they report (as they should) average results for the group under study. But when push comes to shove we are each an experiment of one. We have different physiologies, different ages, and we make different choices. We can all learn from each other, but we have to figure out what works for each of us, individually.

If I use my pre-pregnancy self as a counter-example to Meg, I maintained quite happily on about 2000-2200 calories a day, plus whatever else I burned through exercise. That is about what 'normal' active women should eat, according to the old food pyramid. I don't watch carbs at all, but the high-protein thing would be pretty tough for me anyway, since I could live quite happily as a vegetarian, and only ate meat a few times a week. And truth be told, while I do eat way more veggies that the average woman, I never really worried about the whole 'clean eats' thing, although it did tend to take care of itself if I wanted enough volume to keep hunger away. I do great at cardio, but do only minimal weight training, just enough to keep some muscle mass around. I'm also still relatively young, mid 30s, and relatively tall (for a woman) which both help.

And yes, I'm also part of the NWCR which means there's probably some poor woman out there that maintains on about 900 calories a day, just to get the average Meg quoted. One of my pet peeves as a scientist is when results are reported as averages without mention of normal variability. Don't know if that is the tradition in the biological sciences or an artifact the popular press's 'dumming down' for the general public (as if people aren't smart enough to figure out well written popular reports), but that was basic grad school science 101 for us. Meg, your reaction to this reduced obese study seems to be, quite appropriately, that this study makes a great deal of sense--it matches your experience. For me, while it was interesting, I also sort of found it weird, because it didn't match mine at all.

But I also made some choices that made maintenance for me easier. I chose a maintenance weight (or did it chose me?) which was on the higher side, a BMI which says I'm slightly overweight, a body fat percentage in the mid 20s and a 10/12 size jeans. If I'd taken it another 30 lbs and 3 sizes, it would have been significantly more difficult to maintain. But I felt happy and comfortable where I was, my health stats except for my BMI were all great, and I was able to do long distance racing, including marathon and triathlons. And I didn't feel so great when I did try to take it lower. I guess what I'm getting at is that there is a happy medium for me between 289 lbs and 110 lbs and I chose something that was realistic and comfortable for me.

My basic problem is that for whatever reason, and I'm guessing I have a couple wires crossed somewhere between my stomach and my brain, I want to be abnormal. Something inside me still wants to eat an entire bag of cheetos at one sitting. I never met a cake I didn't like. I have NO, NONE, NADA working hunger mechanism. I have no sense of satisfaction, and feel full only if I'm pretty much too stuffed to move. Don't think this only applies to junk food either--I have on occasion consumed, say, an entire head of cauliflower. I also pretty much don't feel hunger unless my blood sugar drops so low I get the shakes and think I might pass out. If I can control my feedback by writing everything down, and then acting on that, I do OK. If I have to rely on my body for feedback, I'm just honked every single time.

So I guess my point is that, yeah, we're different, but we're not all different in the same way. Some of us have to eat 1500 cal/day to maintain, others can eat more, and I'm guess some of us probably would need to do even less. I get a lot of things from this group which are extremely useful, but there are other things some of you all do or struggle with, that I just have a hard time relating to personally. I guess that is no big surprise, we are a collection of individuals after all. Different rules may apply to Meg and I, or any one of you and I, but I think there is some commonality in that for whatever reason, and whatever our individual rules, maintenance of weight loss is HARD. The support in this group is just phenomenal, and that is pretty much why I keep coming back.

Anne, I think you hit on some really good points. I admit that I'm trying to maintain at a body fat % which is considered very low for a woman my age. My BMI is normal, but only because I have a high ratio of muscle.

As for the hunger and satisfaction factor, we have similar experiences. I never feel satisfied unless I'm stuffed...one of the reasons why I don't veer too often into comfort foods. I'll never stop until I explode :o On the other hand, I'm literally always hungry. I keep hoping that at some point my body will adapt and realize that this is what it's going to get! It's not that I need more food to maintain- I've tried that and I gain. I'm just always hungry no matter what or when I eat, unless I'm in that stuffed condition.

Age is a huge factor. Sorry, you under forties, but your body really does change. :( And for me it changed with each pregnancy.

Nope, that's not a tradition in the biological sciences either. Statistical variation is most assuredly part of the first year of grad school :lol: Unless you're talking about social sciences, where they just make up statistics to sound scientific (apologies to any psychologists or sociologists out there....I have an undergrad degree in anthropology :lol: )

Mel

I agree that each of us is an experiment of one ... we're all different.

Also agree that age is a factor, though I don't think it's as big a one as people sometimes think. There is variability in aging as in anything else. Some older people are more fit and have better metabolisms than some younger people ... and as aging becomes more advanced, the reverse (IMO) process starts ... I think it's rare to see a very obese elderly person, but that's not necessarily a good thing.

Sorry Meg I didn’t mean to imply that your post was a bummer. I have been reflecting over the past few weeks of how far I’ve come, how far I really still have to go and your post really struck a cord with me. I am now facing that this will be continuous work. I kept hearing this word “maintenance” over the past months but never gave any thought to what this really meant for me. I knew it was coming and thought I’d see what it was about once I got there. I was still in the back of my mind thinking I would be like Neil Armstrong sticking my flag on the moon thinking woo hoo finished, lets have a party! :woo: Reality is a place I call home, sometimes I just don’t like to. Illusions and assumptions get me in trouble.

In 2001 I lost 110 lbs and then gained 50 lbs back because I was not in the, “maintenance loop”. I had no idea what I was really undertaking and it took slipping up for me to learn. I from the get go I was not like other people for the fact that even though I was 296 I never had tried to lose the weight. I really didn’t get it. When I got married I moved to Canada and decided to start reading everything I could get my hands on about healthy weight lose. I became my own science project. It was easy in a since to take the weight off because I exercised, counted calories and wha la it worked. But in all my reading ‘Maintenance” was for the most part passed over. When I finally reached a weight I was feeling pretty happy with that’s when it happened. I slacked off, lost complete control and went back to binging.

I am so grateful for threads like this that address some of the not so well know issues of weight lose. That old adage, “if I only knew then what I know now” ringing loud in my ears. Over all though, and this might sound weird, I am glad I slipped up. I have learned so much from this gain it is immeasurable. This is always going to be a learning process and the curve is different for everyone in some way. I think overall though that we are more conscience of what we eat and what we do than others because we have to be. If I didn’t pay attention I really feel that my inner fat girl would consume me. Maybe others can be less aware of things but I for one cannot. So thank you all for such invaluable information. What would we do without eachother. :grouphug:

What a fascinating thread.

I agree with many of the points here - we are all different and need to find what works for us. We cannot eat or not move like most of those around us in our day to day lives. The biggest difference I see this time in my journey, as opposed to the gazillion other times, is all along my way I have kept the idea of "maintenance" as part of my "loss" plan, not seperate sections. I hope I said that well. What I mean is for every change and new habit I made I consciously asked myself, over and over, "can I do this for the rest of my life?" and "how does this make me feel?" I have been reading as much as I can on maintenance (very scarce literature - bummer) and talking with people here and in my physical (?) life that have been successful, not just at weight loss and keeping it off, but other areas of their lives as well. One of the things I see over and over with "success" is that committment on new habits - "I can do this for the rest of my life".

I decided this time that I would implement my own "Baby Steps" program (from that fabulous old movie "What About Bob") and try to change on habit at a time, get a handle on that, and move to the next. At first it was only a food choice or exercise choice, a few months later, one of each, now, not tracking time so much as "changing up" to keep things interesting and resetting goals. And, to be honest, there where some habits I tried to change, decided I could not at that time, and came back to later (hamburgers being a perfecgt example). It has taken me a long time to get where I am today (about 22 months so far). Right now I have the time and regardless of what ichose to do or not to do, time would still pass. I now know I could not go back to my "old" way of eating or not exercising - I have really paid attention to each change and how it has made me feel and asked not only "can I live like this for the rest of my life?", bu "do I WANT to live like this". I eat between 1400 - 1600 calories a day, run 4 times a week, lift weights 3 times a week, do other cardio 2 times a week and try for 3 sessions of either yoga or pilates. Yes, it is a lot, but it makes me happy. I have not been this happy in years and that is the ringer for me. I forgot how much fun happy is!

Remember, we are not "normal" in any other areas of our lives - we are all individuals and that is what makes us exciting and interesting on a number of different social levels. Why should our eating or exercing or general health knowledge and status be any different? "Normal" is nothing but a statistical aberation - we are more powerful than that.

Speaking of successful people (OK, women), I am now reading Mustang Sallies: Success Stories of Women Who Refuse to Run with the Herd by Fawn Germer - I highly recommend it for inspiration and encouragement.

Thnaks for starting this discussion, Meg. I look forward to more comments.

As always very interesting points and discussion.
Everyone has to find what works for what they need and want to accomplish.
As a long-term maintainer I will give some of my personal observations.
13 years ago I began this lifestyle, 13 years later I continue.
1: Personally I can gain weight like no one I know. A month to six week of slightly higher eating and I can show a 12-15 pound weight gain.
2: Slacking on exercise for the same 4 to 6 week period has about an 8-12 pound gain ratio.
3: Combo of slacking on exercise and eating 15-18 pound gain. This slacking is a slight variation of the exercise and eating routine. This is not an abandonment of the lifestyle just a losening.
3: Additional attempts at losing the regain are more difficult in term of time and effort required for the same result.

Thats the facts for me.

Gina, I really resonate with your four points, especially this one: "Additional attempts at losing the regain are more difficult in term of time and effort required for the same result."

Amen to that.

It's interesting that your observations show that your regain is higher when eating slightly more for a given period than when slacking off from exercise for the same period, and that slacking off on both fronts nets an even higher regain. That's true for me, too.

Gina: I hear ya.

For me it's all about the food, sure exercise helps me lose weight, but if my food intake is too high I pile it on. I am also dealing with a 15-18lb surplus I mostly put on WHILE running consistently....

For me I am dealing with head hunger more than anything else... There's a reason I went back to WW this past weekend.

On a happier note, it's my 5 year anniversary of joining WW!!

Cheers!

Ali

I don't know, I think we are all "different" period. Everyone has made very valid points and I agree with practically all of them.

But, you know, for the better part of my adult life I've allowed my weight and weight loss struggles to set me apart from the "normal" crowd - and I refuse to do that anymore. Is it going to be harder for me to maintain a desirable weight than it is for my friends who have always been thin? Maybe, maybe not - I won't know until I've been there for a while. Does it matter to me? No.

The fact of the matter is that there is something great about each of us that any number of other people would love to come by as easily as we do. Everybody has to work harder than the next person at SOMETHING.

So, sure we are different - but that is part of what makes us all so similar. All I know is that I am tired of comparing myself to the next person. I've got what I've got, I've done what I've done, and all I can do now is make the most of it. I don't know a single person - reduced obese or not - who isn't in exactly the same boat.

Amen, Jawsmom!

I'm tired of comparin' myself to the next person, too.

I think we are all unique, but also alike, and that we all have special strengths and weaknesses.

Weight is only a part of the equation ... it's an important part, to me, because it involves building the best body I can, but weight does not define me as a human being.

Good, bad, different, same, fat, thin, we ARE, as you say, all in the same boat. :)

Very good thread. Thanks for starting it, Meg.

My two cents
 

Meg - you are absolutely spot-on again! :cool: what a great post!

Speaking for myself personally - I do work out every single day - often TWICE a day. (sometimes 3 times/day, but we won't even go there right now!) For myself, a lot of my success has to do with attitude and staying busy. So much of my overeating in the past has been what I call recreational eating - not because I was hungry or had some sort of mental crisis but because the food was there and I had nothing better to do at the time (or I thought I didn't). Thus, I replaced that form of recreation with other hobbies and activities - one of which is exercise.

Attitude - if you told me back 16 years ago that I would LOVE exercise and look forward to my daily workouts, I would have thought you'd lost your marbles. Sure, I changed my eating and exercise habits, but my success really started when I changed my ATTITUDE. I would advise new maintainers NOT to think of Meg's post as a prison sentence, but as an OPPORTUNITY. Back when I hated exercise - most of my past experiences had to do with total, abject humiliation (mostly in PE class), being picked last for a team, feeling like a total klutz, etc. The key for me was finding exercise that I enjoyed doing - and continuing to discover new 'fun' stuff (for example, joining a brand new gym and trying out different new classes and equipment!).

I guess you could say 'change your attitude - change your life'. ;)

Mrs. Jim, I couldn't agree more that attitude is a tremendous part of any success - weight loss or otherwise.

I grew up with my dad always saying things like, "It is your attitude not your aptitude that will determine your altitude in life." It used to drive me crazy because it seemed so corny and, of course, at 15 I already knew how the world worked. ;)

As an adult, though, I understand the value of his words. I honestly believe that applying that sentiment to this LAST weight loss effort is what will get me to my goal and KEEP me there. In the past I could have told you anything you wanted to know about every weight loss and exercise plan out there but I had a "can't do" attitude and I never lost weight and kept it off for any amount of time.

I understand Meg's post. I know that maintainence is going to take the same dedication and commitment that I have for losing the weight in the first place. In fact, I am prepared for it to take MORE. Just like losing weight, maintainence won't always be smooth sailing. Neither is any other worthwhile thing I do. That's life - and I intend to live it. :D

Maintainence will be unchartered territory for me and that is exciting if not a little scary. I know I'll make mistakes, but I will learn from them and move on. I'll pay attention to people who have been successful like MrsJim, Meg, and Mel. I'll figure out what works for me and do it. I don't see it being any different than starting a new job, getting married, or becoming a parent for the first time. Anything in life is what you make of it and I intend to make the most of being fit and trim for the first time in my adult life.

I think I can be more accepting of "it's harder for us" as I get further away from having met my goal weight last fall. I read things like that at that time and felt overwhelmed. I thought I'd hit the finish line and was "there," "finished," "done." NOPE! Sorry. But it was too much to hear at that time. Now, with some space between me and the finish line, I'm realizing that I have to make choices to eat well (call it clean, healthy, decisively, whatever) and exercise regularly. At times it's hard to cut myself some slack and I almost feel like I have disordered thinking because I can't let myself slip up. But, part of this portion of the journey, for me, has been learning how to really incorporate a healthy lifestyle (combo of diet and exercise) into my daily life and slowly, but surely make choices that will be longer term than just a diet mentality.

I'm spending more time figuring out how to make my food more delectable and not worry if this chicken recipe has 3 calories more per serving than another one. I'm looking for new workout routines to keep things exciting in the gym. It's a different mentality and a different set of challenges.

Also, I'm lower than I ever expected (size/weight/bmi/bf/etc) but I see my 30's ending in a year and a half and I want to hit my 40's and those unavoidable life changes women face at a good place so I'm ahead of the game and not making up lost time. I'm already working on understanding that some things will be out of my control at that time, but I've built in kind of a buffer zone to work through (if my head will let that happen when it comes! LOL)

Thanks for continuing to post how maintenance has affected each of you. Bits & pieces make sense now and bits & pieces make sense later, but it's good to hear them all along!

Brenda

As an almost-maintainer who has lost 170 pounds after a lifetime of obesity ...

What made "this time" stick and allowed me to get this far was when I finally realized that I was different from "normal" people, and would always be so. I was not simply someone who lacked discipline (although that had something to do with it), but that there was a fundamental difference in the way my brain worked vis a vis food. As Meg mentioned, I had always assumed that if I dieted long enough and lost the weight, I would become a normal person in terms of appetite and relationship with food. That PART OF reaching goal was my body/mind changing as well as my weight.

Now, I have actually found that to some degree that is true -- the longer you watch your eating & activity (with a positive attitude in place) -- the more ingrained that behavior becomes. But at the age of 39 I realized that I needed to make peace with the fact that I could never expect that I would shed my compulsive eating personality. It would not go away, but I could manage it. I had to treat it as a chronic disease that required life-long attention and vigilance. I could not depend on "motivation" to take me through, that it was a matter of DECIDING to do what needed to be done and not falling off the wagon when the initial enthusiasm faded. THAT breakthrough -- and refusing to set a pie-in-the-sky goal at first, but deciding to be happy if I got down to about 220 -- allowed me to lose the weight in the first place, and even get down to what's considered "normal" for my height. So, in a way, you can say I started maintenance the day I started my current program. I would not have made past the first 20 pounds otherwise. Living my life by whim is what got me to be double the weight I should have been. If I had depended on whim and emotion (motivation) to carry me through, I never would have made it. By realizing, like successful maintainers, that success means daily, thoughtful effort regardless of circumstance, I was able to finally become the person I think I was meant to be. Mostly. (That's another huge navel-gazing post ...)

As to the metabolic issues, I can't say. I've gotten where I am with only sporadic activity. I am currently not doing much, and I know I have to pick that back up to lose these last 10 pounds. Physiologically I don't think I'm THAT different from someone who has never been more overweight than I currently am. I do suspect I have a lower BF ratio than a "normal" woman of my height/weight/age, as most formally do. (That's why I hate BMI as a measurement.)

Interesting post, as always, Meg! I totally agree that we are different.

As an example - I just visited my contry of birth and childhood-teenagehood and met some of my former friends/colleques. Most of them gained weight and turned into bitter sad women. Two of them though are happy great looking women. Funnily enough, one of them brought up the topic of beeing with her 21 y.o. son at the dance club and her buddies, who did not know he is her son, had mistaken him for her BF. When she clarified that she is his mother, they asked her - how come she looks so great. Her answer was: many people ask me about secret of keeping my body young - there is my secret - eat less and move more :) It was so easy said, and image of her glorious body stays in my eyes, and her smile, saying it. So here it is - eat less and move more - and have great body and pure soul! And get your sons mistaken for your BFs!
Sandy.

My experience, for comparison
 

I'm finding my life to be more like wndranne's. I wonder if it's the higher bodyfat percentage, younger age, or the fact that I've lost fewer pounds than our Maintainer superstars.

I'm 5'4", highest weight of 172 lbs. And I thought I looked pretty good then, so I never worried, and didn't know until later that an "obese" BMI is 174 at my height. If I'd known, I might have done something sooner.

Anyways, I'm down to 130 lbs, and I practice yoga 2x/week. I maintain at 2000 calories a day. My bodyfat is around 24% (infrared measurement). I'm 27 years old.

In some ways maintenance is like losing: I still track all of my food in FitDay, I eat more fruits and veggies, I have shifted my fat choices toward healthy fats or lowfat foods, dessert is much smaller, I exercise.

I really liked the testosterone magazine article - It gave me some great pointers. I'm going to start weight lifting again, like I did when I was losing. I do miss the energy, the enthusiasm I felt after lifting. And I think I'm getting softer, I haven't lifted in 6 months.

I think ameliaamy may be on to something here. Perhaps the difference is based on just how overweight we once were? Maybe the bodies of those who weren't as morbidly obese as some of us are able to return to a state of "normal" metabolic function after weight loss, where our's are not.

Meg, I wonder if the good Dr. Leibel mentioned anything like this in his lecture or conversation with you? I'd be very interested to hear his thoughts on this point in particular. :chin:

Beverly

Thank you one and all for these wonderful posts that just keep me going and make me feel not so alone in my struggle with weightloss.... :grouphug: No wonder I couldn't lose weight before I joing 3FC!! :bravo: to all the maintainers and maintaner wannabes (that includes me :D the future wannabe)

I think Beverly makes a really good point. There are just so many influences on each of our weight loss and maintainence experiences.

I think that WHY a person becomes obese would be a significant factor in how difficult maintainence is. For instance, someone who is a compulsive overeater may have a much harder time than someone who became obese as a result of a change in lifestyle.

Similarly, I assume HOW LONG a person is obese makes a difference. My guess is that someone who has been obese all their lives will struggle a bit more than someone who didn't have a weight problem until they were an adult. Wouldn't the metabolism of someone who has been obese for only a few years make a better comeback than someone who has been obese for decades?

Jawsmom, I was thinking the same thing. I didn't gain any significant weight until after I had a hysterectomy at age 35. I have lost and gained several times since then, and am working my way down to what I plan to be the LAST time! :lol I enjoy reading about maintenance since the last time I lost I swore it would be the last time too, and I did maintain a nearly 70# loss for 2+ years, then slowly crept back up. I know that I relaxed my vigilence, and changed my lifestyle. I injured myself and let the exercise go. I let little "treats" creep into my food plan, and here I am. Not back the whole way, but well on the way. At least I've stopped gaining and am in losing mode again. Back to regular exercise, and better eating. :)

Pat's post got me thinking about life chages and weight maintenance. I feel like I was successful this time around because I started acting like a maintainer from day 1--this commitment to weight management and health was a lifetime commitment and not just a quick fix until I got down to some goal weight where I could resume 'normal' life.

But even though it hasn't been that long, I've had two major physical shifts that quite dramatically affected my approach to weight maintenance. The first was when I went from eating about 1500 cal/day (quite comfortably) with about an hour of exercise per day, to taking up endurance sports (long distance triathlon, cycling, marathon). I literally started feeling sick, flu-llike on that calorie level and had to revamp my diet to include many more calories/day, which varied according to my training plan for the day and week. But weight maintenance was still a priority for me, and maintain I did. My strategies for weight management had to change, but the result didn't.

The second change was pregnancy, where weight maintenance is not an option. This one has really thrown me for a loop. In spite of my best efforts, I'm gaining weight faster than I should and nothing is really working. Fortunately, it is by definition a temporary condition, I'm limiting damage (from a weight management point of view) the best I can, and riding it out. While I'm not especially looking forward to it, I know how to clean up the mess later, or at least have a reasonable idea of how to do it. And it is going to get done, because that is a commitment I've made to myself and now my daughter.

But I can see at least 2 or 3 more major changes in my life, because this is for life, which is (hopefully) a long long time. Will my body react the same post-pregnancy as it did before? I'm guessing it won't, at least not exactly. Even if it did, will I be back at 1500 cal/day or more like 2500? What kind of exercise/training will I be able to do? While some of my strategies stayed relatively constant, others are going to have to change. Another 10 years or so and I hit menopause. BIG physiological changes there. Will I become more like Meg & Mel? (I sure hope so--you guys always look so fabulous.) Will I have to make strength training a higher priority, or like this fabulous 65-year-old woman in my triathlon club, will triathlon keep me in shape?

I guess as a result of this thread, I'm starting to think about the long term implications of weight management lifestyles, how that may change over time, and how in some cases I'm going to have to learn to be flexible and others I'm not. Example: journaling my food is always a strategy that I'll need to have in place, but what I'm looking for in the journal could potentially change quite dramatically.

I appreciate the fact that we're all different here, because it gives me a bigger base to draw from, as these things happen. Plus I think we all share the common experience of being heavier than we want to be when we let our bodies self-regulate, and the difficulty in managing that. It seems to me that the plans vary once you get past the basic eat less/better and move more, but the planning doesn't.

Anne

Hi Everyone! I'm new here and this thread caught my attention because it is exactly what I am going through right now. Over the course of about a year and a half I lost 87 pounds. I have been in maintenance for about a year now, and over the last 8 weeks I have managed to gain 7 pounds while still exercising regularly and basically maintaining my healthy eating habits with one exception......visits to restaurants for work functions at lunch time.

I didn't feel too bad about my choices at these lunches, but this would certainly explain why I gained that weight despite the consistent exercise. My only problem is that right now I am stuck in 'resentment' mode. It bugs me that I can't eat like a normal person. That I have to be aware of every calorie that I put in my mouth. That I have to exercise daily whether I feel like it or not because the alternative is just a million times worse than I am willing to accept.

It's funny to me that I have had a pretty stress-free maintenance year and now this stuff is starting to back up on me :) Plus, there doesn't seem to be a lot of support in place for people who are on maintenance which is why I think I struck gold when I found this place! I can't believe how hard this is, and just hearing from people who are struggling with the same things that I am struggling with makes me feel less 'abnormal'.

Anne, I LOVE your post. I too have come to the point that I my day to day routine is pretty ingrained. I think quite a bit about what is coming down the road and feel very strongly that doing so will serve me well. Flexibility will be key, of course, but I do think it is so important to consider in advance how we'll handle various obstacles along the way.

Sgrntangerine, I think what you have described IS normal. The people I know who have never had a weight problem have been recycling the same 5-7 pounds for YEARS. I think the only difference is that those few pounds don't have the same emotional ramifications for them.

My sister, who has always been thin, told me once, "When you feel your pants get a little snug just watch what you eat for a week or so until they fit right again." She made it sound so easy - and it is if we can begin seeing ourselves as "normal" and realize that this is how the thin world works. I don't want to be terrorized by weight anymore. I don't want a few pounds to induce resentment or panic and it is going to take a conscious effort on my part to make sure they don't.

What a great thread this has been. I've found myself nodding in agreement at almost *everything* that has been said. Anne, however, really hit the nail on the head for me. I'm in the midst of a lifestyle-management change, and it almost did me in because I didn't really see it coming.

Nope, it wasn't menopause (I had a hysterectomy more than 10 years ago, and actually sailed right through it). In fact, it wasn't any one thing -- just a number of things catching up with me. The point is, I've had to change. I'm back on my version of clean eats again, and I'm journaling, and I'm trying to figure out what to do in terms of exercise. I don't know what the resolution is going to be, but I do know that I need to be very, very flexible as I work it out.

So, right on Anne! And right on everyone.

Good thread here. I'm not at the maintain point just yet but I thought I would start watching this fourm and getting my mind set for maintaining. I have always said that maintaining will not be any different for me than losing the weight in the first place. I know that I will have to continue to count calories and write it all down. I might be able to have a few more calories but that's about the only difference I see. So I did not find your thread a bummer but just a conformation of whats to come. Thanks for sharing it.

That is excellent, Anne. Great post. Great thread, really -- there's a world of wisdom contained within it, even as perspectives may vary.

My SIL , also very ''naturally'' thin, used to say that if her pants got snug she would for a week or so, eat only half of her usual portions... She too made it sound so easy :dizzy: ... We have an emotional bond with food that we have a difficult time letting go of, unfortunately... It does get easier with time though... For example last night I had the girls over and I ate a burger no bun with salad and had two servings of salad... They, in turn, ate 2 and 3 hot dogs AND a burger with the buns AND salad!! I was getting stuffed just watching them. But I truly was very full and content with what I had eaten. At one time I would have been right up there with them enjoying every morcel...

Emotions are a difficult thing to fight off because they are constantly there day in and day out ... Journaling is a life saver to me and coming here to 3FC :D ... What would I do without my 3FC sistahs !! :grouphug:

Beverly – sorry it took me so long to get back to your question! No, all Dr. Leibel said about the metabolic slowdown is that it happens after one loses 10% of their body weight and that it’s permanent. My humble opinion is that there is a lot more research to be done and I’m not convinced that’s the final answer. Clearly we need more understanding of weight loss maintenance – I’m always at a loss to understand why maintenance isn’t the highest priority in the obesity battle? If we all could just KEEP OFF the pounds that we lose, we’d all be so much better off!

To the rest of you -- wonderful and thoughtful responses! Especially everyone who pointed out that we’re all different in the ways that we’re different – which makes total sense to me. Would you all think it’s accurate to sum it up as: those of us who have lost weight (some of us a lot of weight) are different than people who have never been overweight – in different ways? Some of us are different in that we have to eat less – some need to exercise more – some both - some have to be careful about eating cues about satiety and hunger – of course there are all the age and gender and size differences … Anne is SO right when she said we’re all experiments of one. :)

I think that the bottom line coming through all the posts is that reaching goal doesn’t transform those of us who were overweight into normal, never been overweight people, ether physically or psychologically. Our histories as overweight/obese people will always be with us and affect us in countless unforeseen ways. And it’s better to be aware of and prepared to deal with our differences than ignoring them, with perhaps disastrous consequences.

As I kicked all these great posts around in my head this week, I started wondering if the abysmal statistics on weight regain – you know, the often–cited 95% regain lost weight – are due to the losers forgetting (or never acknowledging) that they’re different and taking the necessary steps to deal with the differences? If someone reaches goal and expects to live their life as a ‘normal’ person, without taking action or making a plan to deal with the differences that most of us seem to have, does it make it more likely for them to regain the lost weight? Does accepting the fact that we’re different make maintenance easier or more successful for us losers?

I can talk about my experiences - case in point: DH and I were out to dinner last night and of course I was checking out what people were eating. Since we were out, I was allowing myself more than I’d usually eat (though I knew that the scale would be up today and that I’d have to compensate with more exercise :p ). Just like a normal person, right? Except that I – who was indulging by my standards - was still eating and drinking far less than the normal weight people in the restaurant. I was still very aware of the choices I was making and not even remotely eating as much as I’d like to – in fact, I sincerely believe that I was eating less than anyone else within my eyesight. So was I behaving like a normal person?

Unfortunately, the fact is that I simply CAN’T eat and drink the way a normal person would, even for one night, without risking a huge weight gain. I understand that they can cut back for a few days and hit the gym a little harder and everything evens out, but my body just doesn’t work that way. Rats!

But really and truly, I’m OK with it! Like Karen said in her post, it all comes down to attitude. Crazy as it may sound, I’m comforted by realizing that I’m different. I think I’d be endlessly frustrated otherwise – because I’d either be living and eating like a normal person and gaining weight OR I’d feel cheated by reaching goal and still not being able to live ‘normally’. Instead - like many of you said - I don’t even bother to compare myself to normal people because it’s just not relevant. They’re not my peer group – YOU guys are my peer group! And even though we may be different in our differences, we all have SO very much in common.

Thank you all for the great discussion - let's keep it going - and thank you all for being here. :grouphug:

Meg, I firmly believe that acceptance is one of the most crucial parts to successful weight loss and maintenance. I have truly accepted that I am different from naturally thin people or those who do not have issues with food. I have accepted that I will always be different and, therefore, will always have to behave differently, and that this is the way it will be for the rest of my life. By accepting it, I am ok with it, and in turn, it has freed me to live the way I know I need to. Sure, a little resentment creeps in on me now and then, but there isn't a damn thing I can do about it anyway, so what's the point of dwelling on it, right? And I agree, there is so much more research that needs to be done here. I feel like society has focused so much on losing the weight that we've really dropped the ball on what to do afterwards. No wonder the regain rate is so high, once we've actually lost the weight there's no support or guide to what we're supposed to do now. I remember feeling very lost after I hit my goal, I didn't feel like I fit in anymore because my main focus was no longer on losing weight like everyone else. Thank goodness you approached me about this maintainers forum because just knowing that others are going through and feeling the same things is such a huge comfort, it's invaluable.

Beverly

These post are what keep me going time after time. It is so important that we have these shared and different opinions. I know for me realizing that my needs are going to be long term has helped me accept them. I will always need to monitor a bit more of my food intake and exercise output. But once we have the information for our bodies it is at least an even playing field. The most fustrating part is feel like its your fault that the scale rises so easy. That has lead to more damage for me than I can count.
Keep on keeping on.

What a great thread. It was just what I needed tonight, as I searched for a bit of inspiration on a otherwise-uninspiring evening. I am not a regular poster here, but I always come away with valuable insights when I do stop by.

Two things came to mind as I read:

First, like a previous poster, I had a brilliant first year of maintenance before it started getting hard. That first year I was on fire and I could do no wrong. I even continued to lose weight. It was just about one year later that the real challenges began. Mental challenges, that is - it's all a mind game for me now.

Second, I also take comfort, somewhat, in being different. But sometimes I wonder if I take a little too much comfort. I based so much of my self-worth, during the past five years, on losing the weight and becoming fit and thin that I worry, sometimes, if I am fetishizing the whole experience in an unhealthy way. By now, many if not most of the people who know me at work and in my persona life never knew me when I was fat. SOmetimes I find myself wanting to tell a new person "I used to be morbidly obese! Look how good I did! So cut me a little more slack, will you!" This applies a lot in dating situations, where I am still a few years behind the regular learning curve and always feel like I need to tell a new person about the weight loss in order to "excuse" whatever shortcomings I fear he'll perceive in me.

Anyway, not to over-psychoanalyze, but it's a very interesting process. I do think that us long-time maintainers ARE different, and I loved the insight from the person who noted that the KEY to maintenance is acceptance. You really have to accept that you'll always have to live this way and begin to love it - that is so true. It isn't a burden for me, though I still obsess endlessly about the 10 pounds I'd like to lose, just like any "normal" woman. I love the exercise, the feeling I get from eating healthy, and the satisfaction that I am no longer that tired, obese, unattractive, unhealthy person I used to be. Everything about is great, really - right down to the "corrections" that have to be made from time to time (those hard-core weeks when you pay for a weekend trip or restaurant outings).

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts!

Amen! Same with me ... The folks where I work now have only see me lose the last 30 pounds, and to them that seems amazing. They have NO idea about the previous 140 pounds. Even when I tell them, it's not as remarkable to them as it is to me.

Double Amen! On the other hand, I NEVER tell dates for fear he'll be repulsed and run screaming from the room. If things ever progressed to a serious stage (which hasn't happened yet) I would naturally tell him, but in the getting-to-know-you phase I just think it's TMI.