Settling vs. Pushing Myself
 

I have basically gotten to the point where I don't think I can do anything else with my weight loss that would be sustainable long-term. I eat around 1200-1400 calories a day, track and log everything, cut out all processed foods and grains (except ~6 g sugar a day and an occasional treat 1-2x a week), etc. I exercise 4-6 times a week with varying intensity- from 20 minute walks to 1 hour power yoga to moderate lifting to 6 mile runs. All of this is sustainable in the long run and I think I've managed to adopt the mindset that measuring, weighing, and calorie counting is something I'll do for the rest of my life. It's really hard and it takes a LOT of energy and time. But I'm doing it.

My problem is I've been at 122-124 for the past 5 months now. I did take a 6-week maintenance break where I really didn't do much counting, but otherwise I've been pretty close to 1200-1300 calories a day.

I really, really want to lose 5 more pounds. For the first reason, I'm still not happy with where my body is aesthetically. I lost most of my weight from my chest and waist and my arms and thighs are still big. It looks weird. I don't think this is an issue of body dysmorphia. I don't care too much about my looks- I rarely wear makeup, don't spend a lot of money on clothes or haircuts. I've always been grateful for a functioning, healthy body and ultimately that's what's important. I've actually put off trying to lose weight my whole life because I "make" myself satisfied with my weight, convince myself I should just be fine with where I am. But I'm not and I never have been. I would love to finally, at some point in my life, genuinely be happy with my weight.

Secondly, I want a maintenance range. I would not be happy with a maintenance range where 122 is the lower end, or the middle.I don't want to continue bouncing around 122-125. It should be the absolute upper, if that. Which means losing a few more pounds.

The problem is, I really don't know how much more restrictive I should/could get. I could drop calories to 1000/day. I could be perfectly on plan every day. But that would require a level of discipline and near-obsession that I don't know is healthy. I already miss a lot of social function because I know I'll veer off plan if I attend them. I already think about food a LOT- because almost all of my meals are homecooked and mostly made from fresh vegetables that I buy almost every day. How much more do I need to give up?

I guess my bottom-line question is settling versus pushing myself. I don't want to settle- that's what I've always done and it's always been me lying to myself. I could push myself- really stick to 1000-1100 a day and do whatever it takes to get there. But that's not something I can live with for the rest of my life. And isn't this all about finding something sustainable?

I guess I'm also really befuddled because there are so many on 3FC who have started after I did (January 2011) at higher weights and have lots a LOT more than I have, and are now lighter than I am. I've never really veered off plan, I don't binge, I've cut out alcohol, carbs except fruits and veggies, and processed foods. I just have no idea how people are able to lose faster and weigh less than I am by engaging in these behaviors. I'm a little jealous, but mostly I'm confused and really wondering if I'm doing something wrong.

So, I would love input. I'm really in a rut. Thanks in advance for your wisdom and perspective :)

I'm probably the polar opposite of you: I'm about your height, am probably about 40 lbs. more than you (I don't weigh myself), and am satisfied with myself to the point where I've been eating maintenance calories for a few weeks now. I'm letting you know that so that you can know where I"m coming from as you read this: I don't think you can or should compare yourself with others. We all have different body types. My sisters can weigh exactly the same as I do and still wear a bigger size. My one sister works her tail off with a personal trainer and is a bit frustrated that I don't do anywhere near her level of working out but during the last six months have gotten down to the same size as her just by doing more walking and calorie counting.

So, #1 piece of advice: Don't compare yourself to others.

#2 piece of advice: It's really going to be your decision to make (I know that's lame, but it's what it boils down to). You have to ask yourself if that 5 more lbs. is really worth all the sacrifice it will take to get there and stay there. For me the answer would be so easy: no way! But that's my answer, not yours.

Finally, I know you said that your view of your body is not distorted, but honestly, I'll bet that most outsiders wouldn't see a difference in you at 125 to 120. It really probably is that you're focused on what you see as a flaw.

Hey! :wave:

I'm sure you are going to get lots of replies. This is a question many people struggle with.

The prevailing mythology is that we can make our bodies do anything--it's just mind over matter, right? But I think that after a point, that idea becomes dysfunctional. When someone at your height and weight is stressing over 5 pounds, I think that's a sign.

That desire to lose 5 more pounds? In some people, it never ends. If 120 is good, wouldn't 115 be better, as a buffer? And then, at 115, maybe it would be even better to be 110 to make sure...

Along with this comes the odd idea that those body parts that one hates will magically change and become the "ideal"--they will match some imaginary mental image, and then one can be truly happy and content.

Where does this idea come from, that unless one's body is "perfect," one cannot be happy?

I really would second what lin43 said about not comparing yourself to others. There is no telling why some people lose more weight or lose it faster. That's not the point anyway.

The point, in my view, is to live life in a mindful way, not in a way that means constant, unrelenting stress. Not to be the kind of person who lives in terror of being "struck fat" if they miss one day at the gym, or if they eat one meal that goes over calories. Day to day life is not like training for the Olympics--or at least, it doesn't have to be.

You have a negative view of the word "settling." So I'd reframe that. You can make a decision to accept your body where it is and stop making yourself nuts about it. Some might call this rational, even reasonable.

Jay

I agree with lin43 and JayEll.

This is a great discussion and something I think a lot about myself. Thanks for asking and I did enjoy the responses.

I was even surprised with myself when I started paying probably too much attention to girls my own height and what their goals or maintenance levels are.

I am actually working myself on asking myself how do I really feel and what makes sense for me. :)

If I had to guess based on your activity, etc. you are probably pretty strong and pretty low on the body fat. I could be dropping 5 more pounds will come at the expense of your lean mass.

Something to think about anyway. In the long run you may sustain better with a stronger body and a number on the scale that you didn't think you wanted. :)

PS.

This is something I am struggling with too myself. Even I know it is not ideal but I haven't figured out the solution yet. There is another thread going on about not associating food with fun or something like that. It has been very informative, but I don't think I am there yet.

I think you answered your own question! It sounds like where you are now is the lowest weight you can get to comfortably, healthily. Going down in calories more? Dangerous territory. And you already said that you skip social events bc you don't want to go off plan. That's no fun (believe me, it's something I wrestle with too). Being at a healthy weight is a lifestyle, but not an obsession.

Please don't compare yourself to other bodies. We're all our own people, and our bodies operate differently. Just because some people are at a lower weight for your height doesn't mean you should also be there. I'm 5'5" and am more comfortable around 140-145, rather than the 125 lbs charts "tell" me I should be at.

And I strongly agree with Jay's point that you are not "settling" in a negative way. You've discovered on your journey that this is a place where your body feels healthy, happy. It's not a bad thing to stay here (particularly when your body doesn't seem to want to leave!). A lot of maintainers here say their maintenance weight "chose" them, rather than they chose their weight. It sounds like 122-124 chose you.

Congratulations on your loss! Welcome to maintenance!

Have you input your maintenance requirements into an online calculators? For a female, 30, 5.2 inches, active, to maintain 124 the output I got from one was 1915 calories daily. Of course, that may not be your age, is 1/2 inch shorter than your listed height, and 2 lbs over your listed 122----I'm just wondering, and I rarely state this to anyone, if you're undereating. Which doesn't mean go out and eat a banana split to make up the difference, and I'm not at maintenance and I honestly don't know what is going to happen to me when I get there--but you may want to eat just a little more. Dropping your calories to 1000 is a bad idea.

You should look into that in depth and find out if there is something to it. I hope someone else here on 3FC is able to give you some insight into that.

Good luck.

I loved Jay's entire post, but this one part stuck out to me. If we could all internalize that point, I think there would be fewer people regaining lost weight (I don't mean here---I mean in general).

I loved Jay's post too, but those two quotes jumped out at me.

indiblue - What would you do if you lost those five pounds, but they came off your bust and face, and you still thought your arms and thighs were "big"? Where we store fat is largely dictated by genetics.

At your height, weight and level of activity, you're already slim and healthy, and I don't think you can drop your calorie level safely and sustainably. If you would like to do some "reshaping", I would suggest increasing your weights - I've had dramatic results from strength training, and the added muscle mass would give your metabolism a boost too.

I knew I'd posted this first link before-- and it turns out I posted it for you, indiblue. These (1, 2) are the professional women marathoners at Boston a few years ago. Look at the thighs. Fitness and thinness and, for that matter, world-class athletic ability do not guarantee aesthetically perfect legs--or any other body part, for that matter. Heck, even (female, non-steroid) fitness models do not look to be entirely without visible body fat on an everyday basis.

I think between the focus on not-good-enough body parts and the limiting of social interactions to support your attempts at losing five whole pounds, you're getting close to something disordered and not good. What would you say to someone else who posted what you did?

122 - you are already quite slim.

Instead of dropping calories, etc., I'd probably try to research some other types of training that really focuses on your problem areas. I know you are super active - but maybe focus on some new shaping exercises? I haven't been in your "shoes", but that is probably what I'd try if I were.

It sounds like it's time to take your focus away from the scale. Whether that means paying closer to your measurements, working on achieving fitness goals, or something else is up to you, but being too hard on yourself over a few pounds is only going to make this process more exhausting.

sumire's success story was really inspiring and I think you might find something relevant to your situation if you haven't already read it: http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/mini...ost-there.html

What I really took away from it was how much body composition can affect our appearance. The number on the scale might not move much, but there can still be dramatic changes in your shape.

I've been having a similar dilemma as well. I think it's tough when you don't feel your body is proportionate. I'm definitely a pear shape so very bottom heavy. My upper body is very thin so I usually can wear a skirt (if it's A-line) in a size 2 or 4 but my jeans will be more like a size 10 with lots of gaping at the waist. I would love to lose 4 more lbs. (I'm at 149 right now) because I used to be that weight and I thought it would be really great...however, I haven't been able to get there.

For me, I've decided that it's ok. I'm still going to strive for it, but it's without the agony that may go along with a goal that feels so unattainable. I'll just try and if I get there and it takes me a year, then great. If I never do, then I'm ok with that as well. I know what it takes. I won't starve myself and drop down to a calorie count that is too low. I can just up my workout here and there and cut down on the splurges here and there. I figure that little bit will add up to a lot of a long enough period of time.

Also, don't underestimate the power of dressing for your body type. I've given up on jeans. They just don't flatter. Instead, I wear high wasted slacks that flare at the bottom and lots and lots of dresses that cinch at the waist.

Either way, I hope you find a way to be truly happy in your body.

i understand how you're feeling, but as others have said i don't know whether you're being over-critical about yourself, or if you have the potential to lose a bit more whilst still being able to maintain it long-term.

The only thought i have is that maybe you're being TOO GOOD. Maybe you're too consistent and your body is used to the calories it gets and a 1hr exercise session or whatever.

Recently i've started trekking, and i've also been doing more bike riding and i do these activities for 3-6hr one day at the weekend. They've replaced a couple of sessions of 1-2hrs running or spin classes. In other words lower intensity but for a longer period of time, and for some reason it's just working!

Similarly maybe you need to shake up your food a bit with more calories for a few days and then go back to where you are - or preferably, aren't there people who are specialised at this? Could you see a professional trainer or nutritionalist and get some advice from someone who really knows this stuff?

I'm so glad you posted this! I am experiencing the same thing and AGONIZING over it.

I'm not going to pretend that I don't still want to lose those last 3-5 pounds, but after talking with a friend, I was blown away that she is the same height as me and weighs 8-10 pounds less. It was confsuing, b/c I am getting rid f clothing that is too big, and that is her size!

She looks great, but you know what, so do I. I wear a smaller size, but she weighs less. It really is amazing how different our bodues are. Just b/c of our height, we expect all these crazy things to happen based upon other people who are the same height. LOL It's kind of silly when you step back for a minute.

HUGS.

You are right. And I need to hear this. Comparing oneself to others is a waste of time- it gets us nowhere.

The funny thing is, people DO notice when I lose 5 lbs. I suppose it's the "paper towel" theory in action. My yoga teacher commented after I lost 2 lbs, my neighbors after I went from 132-127, my parents when I saw them after a year of being overseas and went from 127-123.

I think I'm at the point where even small losses are noticeable, which is one incentive for me to continue losing a few more pounds. Not that that is a good thing...

That's the internal struggle I continue to have. For my entire life I thought weight loss was out of my control. It wasn't until this year (at the age of 25) when I gained 10 lbs that I realized I have control over my weight and I need to take control of it (i.e. eat properly and exercise).

This whole "settling vs. pushing myself" is me struggling to find where I need to accept responsibility for my body, my fitness, and my weight and where I need to say "This is out of my hands, I'm doing the best I can do." Before, I didn't take enough responsibility. Now, perhaps I need to recognize where my "responsibility" ends and genetics and whatever else is just out of my hands.

I was thinking about this a lot last night after I posted this thread. I keep thinking about my sister and my mom. My sister is 10-15 lbs lighter than me and around the same height. She has struggled with bulimia and disordered eating since she was a teenager. She goes from binging and purging to starving herself to being healthy and back again.

I think she and I have different body types (as a child she was very slender and I was always curvier), but I still see similarities. We both inherited saddlebags, thick upper arms, and flat stomachs. I keep reminding myself of this. She is a lighter version of me, sort of, and still has "problems" with the same areas I do. I think you and others are right that losing is not really going to change this... it's something my poor sister has yet to realize, hence the eating disorders, but perhaps at least I can.

Haha maybe if you post them enough times I'll finally start to listen to you :). You are absolutely right about being careful about getting too close to disordered eating patterns. Depression, eating disorders, and other mental health issues run in my family and I'm so blessed that I didn't inherit them. There is no reason to bring disordered eating upon myself and I need to remember that.

I actually just put my scale away this morning. It's in my bedroom and I pass by it several times a day. You are right, I need to remove myself from it. It should be a useful tool and I'm using it as a ball and chain that I drag around all day.

You are ABSOLUTELY right. I have been thinking about this recently as well too. I look terrible in skinny jeans and in shirts that end at the waist. I have saddlebags and big thighs and shirts that don't come halfway past my rear at least only accentuate this.

Two friends posted recent photos of me on Facebook in various outfits that really looked pretty bad. I think the second photo posted last night is one that inspired this post. I was really amazed how heavy I looked. But I really wondered if a lot of it was in the outfit- and I think it at least part of it is.

I've thought about this too- that I perhaps am eating too few calories consistently- but I definitely do have my off-days. I'm very on plan most of the time, but not all the time. I eat a few hundred extra calories on long run days.

But you're right about switching up exercise. I'm trying to get in more long walks instead of sweating it out at the gym. Whether it results in weight loss or not it's good for my body to switching things up.

I really, really am grateful to everyone's advice and thoughts. I'm sorry to hear others are struggling with the same thing.

I think what I'm going to do is put away my scale (well, I've already done that :)) and focus on behavioral goals exclusively. I am going to eat properly- which right now means generally following the Eat to Live plan- I feel really good when I eat that way. I'm going to continue to exercise. I will buy NROL today- I've wanted to really focus on lifting and think subscribing to a particular program is a wise decision.

I'm going to keep my goal at below 120. I think psychologically it's useful to say that I'm at the top of my maintenance weight (122-118) rather than the bottom (125-122). But I'm not going to specifically, intentionally try to continue cutting weight. I'd love to drop a few more pounds eventually, and it might happen. But if I never lose another pound at least I'm still in a healthy place.

As I mentioned in my original post, the best thing that has happened over the past 11 months is that I learned SO MUCH about nutrition and how to eat properly. I know what portion sizes look like and how many calories I should eat each day. I have dramatically changed my eating habits. I was lucky last year when I lived in the US and walked a lot and got to eat pretty much whatever I wanted. Moving to India and having a more sedentary lifestyle- and thus gaining 10 lbs- was a wakeup call. I'll be back in the US in July (yay!) and will bring with me all the tools I've learned about health and nutrition, plus behaviors I can stick to for the rest of my life.

You guys are wonderful. I really love this forum.



EDIT: Oh yeah, and I just removed my ticker :) :)

wow!! you really are making some drastic changes now!!!!

I think that this is a wonderful thread. I do costuming and write a bi-monthly costuming article for a Middle Eastern dance publication, and my current topic is actually on costuming for your particular body type.

We can't change our genetic body shape. I am a pear, and with that comes small hands/wrists/shoulder width/ribcage and a defined waist. I never had a turky neck or double chin at 233+ pounds. What I DID have was a big rear ends and super thick legs. Now that I am at 150, I am STILL smaller up top. I STILL have thick legs. My chest and waist measurements are in the 6-8 size depending on brand, and my booty and legs fit a size 10.

I am actually going to try and drop a few more pounds so that my upper body is a solid 6 and my jeans are an 8...but it won't change my shape. With body shape, we also have to remember that our SKELETON is different...not just where we store fat. Some ladies have small hips/hipbones and wide shoulders...others are like me and have small upper body frames and larger lower body frames. It is what is is.

Instead of focusing on what I look horrible in, I focus on what I DO look good in, and that is what I am currently writing my articles about! I think in your case, it will be a huge refresher to focus on what things flatter your individual shape, rather than focusing on your percieved flaws.

I won't ever be caught dead in short Daisy Duke shorts. Ever. EVER! I do, however, know that a 3/4 sleeve v-neck really accentuates my slimmer, finer bone structure on top, and that a boot cut jean is more slimming on my lower body than a skinny jean. I think it can be helpful to watch "What Not To Wear" because if they feature someone with your shape, then you soak in the tips on what they tell you will flatter your figure type.

Also, at this point I am focusing more on other sorts of goals-I recently decided to train to run a 5K, so I'm doing the Couch to 5K program along with my regular exercise. I've never liked my legs...and I am focusing more on what they can accomplish, rather than what they are shaped like. It's just a difference sort of goal, a different focus...one that doesn't have to do with measurements or the scale.

I had to comment on this. I would like to see the actual percentage of the female population that looks good in those jeans (I'm guessing maybe 3%). I have seen perhaps one person whom I thought looked good in them, and she was a bean pole. It drives me nuts when the fashion designers come out with designs that most women look horrible in.

Okay, mini-rant over :)

True, lin! Skinny jeans aren't really my litmus test for healthy body weight, if my previous comment seemed to imply that. I just mean I need to stop trying to wear things I know don't look good on me.

You woudn't catch me dead in a poncho, at my height of 5 feet, i just look ridiculous, doesn't matter what my weight is.
I also like What Not To Wear, it was from that show that I learned to buy straight leg jeans, much more flattering it "almost" looks like I have long legs .

From a fitting standpoint, the reason that most women look awful in skinny jeans, even if they are thin, is that if you have ANY hipbones at all, they accentuate the wideness of the hips, and make the legs look like sticks (if you are thin) or sausage casings (everyone else) in the process. To wear them well, you not only have to be thin...but have a smaller hip frame...OR if you have a larger hip frame, they must be worn with a tunic/longer length top.

It sounds like you've already made your decision about how to move forward, but I figured I'd put in a few thoughts anyway.

1) I absolutely agree that comparing yourself with others isn't going to get you anywhere. I often see people posting who are the same height as me but 15lbs less, and they are still losing. Sometimes when I see that I think, "I'm too fat." Sometimes I think, "They're too thin." Neither is really true.
2) I also agree with whoever it was that said to dress for your body. Looking good in the mirror is not just about what you look like without your clothes on. I can put on one outfit and look fabulous and put on another and look like a beached whale. It's not like my body shape changed during the five minutes it took me to change clothes! For example, I have pretty big thighs and a big butt. So, I wear curvy fit flared jeans. The curvy fit makes my butt look nice and avoids gapping at the waist band, and the flared bottoms even out the width of my thighs so my legs look nicer. Tapered jeans make my thighs look huge. Rather than worry that my thighs are too big, I just don't buy tapered jeans. :shrug:
3) Another agreement: losing 5lbs more might not make your body shape any different. Some things are just the way we are built and we need to make peace with them.

I read this lastnight, but didn't have time to reply till now. Here's my 2 cents! ;)

For many peeps first it's 5 lbs, then 5lbs will NOT be enough, & then it's I'd like to lose just a couple more lbs just to be sure, then another couple of lbs as insurance, then another couple for luck... etc. It's just a bad road to head down IMHO as you could be
veering on the edge of a ledge with disordered eating! :( I'm sad to read you say you have skipped a lot of social functions already. :( Go get out & socialize, you do NOT have to FOCUS on the food, go for the friendship & socialize! Life it too short to miss out on opportunities with friends, family & associates! :)

Maintenance is for the long haul, sustaining something with ease is way more ideal, being it's FOREVER! ;) I certainly would rather be a few lbs heavier than have to eat less or workout in excess just to stay at the lower number on a scale, which to me is just scale mental madness & I won't be a part of that mind F! I eat 80% clean & 20% not so clean & workout daily & that's my maintenance routine plain & simple. FYI, I'm going on 5 years of maintenance... :)

Bottom line, being 5lbs thinner probably won't = HAPPINESS! You have got to love LOVE yourself unconditionally NOW! Embrace your flaws & all! :) With that, I say, "Welcome to MAINTENANCE!" You are there! :) Perhaps this is the weight your body wants you to be at? Maybe just tweak your exercise routine or lift heavier & your body will change the jiggly bits your not happy with in due time, in the meantime dress your body to camoflauge your so called flaws, like the others have mentioned. No body is perfect, so get it out of your head that "your" body has to be before you can be happy! ;) Skinny does not = happiness! ~ Wendalyn

You know, I have known this for so long and I STILL buy short shirts. I wear them and end up looking 10-15 lbs heavier in them!

As part of my "get in the right mentality mode" yesterday I got rid of several short t-shirts and bought about 4 longer-length tops on Amazon. I really do think a lot of it is learning to love my body type and dressing to accentuate it is part of it.

I am grateful you posted this. I think much of what you said I need to hear repeatedly until it really sinks in.... including not comparing myself to others and that 5 lbs won't change our body types.

Also, it sounds like we have very similar body types. :)

I've realized lately that the amount of stress and anxiety I have brought on myself with regards to eating is not healthy. Yesterday I didn't calorie count (for the first time in 11 months, except for a short maintenance break) and just ate what I knew I should eat. I had a few bites and nibbles of this and that and didn't stress over it. I didn't weigh myself at all yesterday or today. I think I actually ate BETTER and felt BETTER about things because I wasn't stressed about logging everything, "using up" all my calories, etc.

I see on 3FC a LOT people giving the advice that you just have to skip out on some events and drop friends if you want to lose weight. Seriously. People asking "what do I do if all my friends do is drink and eat?" and the response is "Get new friends!"

I don't really think that's healthy. I live overseas and I have to partake in some cultural events here (which always revolve around huge quantities of food). I always am polite and eat what the host tells me to- whether it's OP or not- but the amount of STRESS I allow it to cause me is absurd.

You are right that it's about coming to terms with something sustainable. I don't think I've allowed weight loss to interfere too much with my life (no one noticed I'm dieting) but I do think I've allowed it to bring a lot of unnecessary stress. This is something definitely to work on.

I think you've summed all of this up well. This is where I want to be and am really going to work to get there :)

I'm really late coming into this but I'm glad that it looks like you've received some great advice and are really taking it in.

I have to agree 100% with the idea that you need to learn to dress your body. Know your strengths and weaknesses and dress them. It can make such a difference. I have a large bust and butt and if I were were to wear a peasant top and a long flowing skirts, well, it would be an absolute disaster! I would look like I'm about 30lbs heavier. I really need fitted clothes that show up my waist and legs.

I'm still not a genius when it comes to dressing myself but I'm working on it. It's even harder after weight loss because you have a new body that needs to be dressed. But stop focusing on your flaws and figure out how to work them. You say you have a pear shape, have you looked into Levi's Curve Id Jeans or PZI jeans? Also, if you have a smaller upper body, show it off!

Hi everyone, checking in.

I stopped calorie counting for about 5 days since I last posted here. I ate sensibly, but I did indulge in a banana-zucchini bread and an apple upside-down cake I made last week. It may not sound like a lot but eating 1 slice of each for a few days absolutely put me over calories.

I didn't weigh myself for several days but I have over the last few days. I'm up to 125- a 3-lb jump in about 6 days. I read old maintenance threads on 3FC about how this is due to increased weight in food, increased water retention, etc. I imagine in my case it's increased water weight due to increased carbs intake as well. I FEEL bigger though... in my waist and chest. Weird.

I started calorie counting again yesterday. I was at 1100 before I went to a dinner at our neighbors' (she cooked homemade pizza) so between that and a very small glass of wine I probably ended up at 1600 for the day.

I'm not sure where I want my calories to end up. If I was maintaining on 1200-1400 per day over the last 5 months does that mean that's where my maintenance calories are?

I'm hoping I can return to my normal menu and calorie range starting today and go from there. Hopefully my weight will drop back down to 124-122 in the next few days.

I think this dilemma is one of the fatal traps of weight loss (and there are a lot of them).

I bypassed this choice completely, and it's incredibly liberating (and it means I'm neither settling or punishing myself, and never will be ... ever).


My choice: To focus on making healthy changes that I know are healthy, and that I'm willing to commit to, even if I don't lose any weight. When I'm comfortable with that change, I make another, and another and another (weight loss is one of the rewards for my changes, not the goal itself)

until either

1. I've reached my goal weight, at which point my task changes from making healthy changes that result in weight loss, to making changes that allow me to maintain my healthy weight (and if I want to, I get to keep making healthy changes so long as they allow me to maintain my goal weight range).

2. I'm not willing to make any more changes. When I'm not willing to make any more changes, it doesn't matter whether I've reached my goal or not. If I'm not willing to make any more changes, then I don't ... and I need to learn to be ok with my weight whatever it is (even if it's my current weight, now).

If I am not willing to make any more changes, I need to be ok with my weight whatever it is. If I'm not ok with my weight as it is, then I need to keep making changes (but still only ones I'm willing to make forever).


This has worked tremendously for me. I've no longer been tempted to give up, because I only make changes I'm willing to make forever, whether weight loss results or not.

In the past, I always thought of weight loss as things I was willing to do to get the weight off (not what I was willing to do to keep the weight off). I figured I'd worry about what to do after I lost all the weight I wanted, when I got there (and I never did). Mostly because I would start to think that I couldn't lose any more weight, and not being at goal weight yet, I'd give up (because I was doing more than I was willing to do forever).


If you're not willing to make any more changes than maintain your weight and be happy with that.

If you're not happy with your weight, continue to make changes that you're willing to commit to forever.

You can't have it both ways. You're either willing to make more changes, or you're willing to accept your weight as it is.

I think too often we've been taught to falling into the trap of being disatisfied with our weight but not wanting to make any more changes, either... and unfortunatly often deciding that this puts us in a no-win situation, and if we can't win, we might as well give up.

Some days, I wake up and I think "I can't lose even one more pound, I can't stomache even one more change..."

In the past, I would have decided that giving up was the logical choice.

Now I decide "OK, I don't want to make any MORE changes, that's ok. I'll just keep doing what I have been doing until I AM ready to make more changes, or until I've decided that I'm DONE making changes, and then I'll just keep doing what I am ok with doing, until I am ready to make more changes.

The behavior is the same, and my feelings about myself are the same. I'm a great and fabulous person whether I'm willing to keep making more changes, or whether I've decided I'm doing enough for now.

What I've stopped doing is giving myself a reason to give up entirely and gain all the weight back. I don't have to worry about my ultimate goal weight. Heck, I might decide tomorrow that I don't want to make any more changes, and am ok with my weight. So, I'll decide to maintain, then in a week or two I may change my mind again and decide I am ready to make more changes...

I think we set too much stake in "the goal" so that if the goal seems impossible, it means we might as well give up entirely (which usually means gaining it all back and some extra to spare).

For me now, it's just a very logical choice (and a no pressure one).

Am I willing to do more?

If the answer is no, it doesn't matter whether I'm at goal or not. I had better decide that doing no more is ok, or I need to do more. Those are my two choices. Do more, don't do more.

That's not settling and it's not punishing myself. It's just that simple... do more to try to lose more, or accept my weight and my effort (at least temporarily). If I'm not willing to do more and I'm also not willing to accept the consequences of that choice, then I'm a fool.

I'm no fool. On days I am not willing to do more, I accept the consequence of not losing happily.... and if I'm not happy with not losing, then I have to accept that I will have to do more. What I can never allow myself again is the option of not being willing to do more and also not being willing to accept my weight. I won't accept the no-win situation ever again.

If you increase your carb intake, it will increase the amount of water your body needs, but remember water takes up space, so when you gain water weight, you do gain inches somewhere (wherever your body is storing the water - for me water weightt tends to show in my face, wrists, calves, and ankles - but different people can store the water in different areas).



Theoretically yes 1200 to 1400 calories would be your maintenance calories (at least for now), but it doesn't mean that your maintenance calories will be in that range forever. You could stick with this calorie range, and eventually start to lose again. You could even gain, but that's far less likely on such a low calorie range (and if it happens, you may want to talk to your doctor about getting tested for metabolic/endocrine issues such as low-thyroid...)

In fact, it might be something to consider now, because it could explain why you're maintaining on a relatively low calorie level (this may just be your natural maintenance calorie level, but it wouldn't hurt to get checked for thyroid or other possible health issues that could be accounting for a slower metabolism).

kaplods I am grateful for your thoughts. I am in complete agreement with you about shifting my emphasis and energy on sustainable behaviors. I did this a while ago and am much happier and at peace. Every behavior change I have made until now I am very comfortable with continuing forever. I love cooking, eating healthfully, and exercising. I don't mind counting calories and I have successfully shifted some of my unhealthy attitudes towards food.

I think my concern is that I am willing to take on additional behaviors in the long run: reducing my calories, being even more vigilant about staying on plan (which means refusing food I currently accept out of politeness at parties, etc). But at some point what we are willing to do is unhealthy. I think I've found that boundary for me. Even though I can stick to increased restrictions doesn't mean I should. At some point it becomes unrealistic for me to tighten my plan up even more... and unhealthy.

I completely agree with you that I was putting too much stock into my numerical goal. I am so happy that I've assembled a set of healthful behaviors I can stick to for the rest of my life. That is the best "goal" I can hope for.

I think what I was/am struggling with is what JayEll described well early on. The idea that it's a "mind over matter" issue. I was having trouble finding where my responsibility to "get it together" ends and letting go of things out of my control begins. The reason I started with 3FC was my lifestyle changed (I moved across the world and became far less active) and I ate whatever I wanted. I gained weight and had no idea why- I felt it was out of my control. With 3FC and other resources I learned that a lot of it was in my control- I had to eat less and move more. And I did- I took control over my weight gain (only about 10 lbs at the time) before it took control over me.

But at some point our weight loss and body shape is out of our hands and I need to find where that point is.

Also one last small note- my issue is settling vs pushing myself, not punishing myself. I am definitely not an advocate of punishing oneself with regards to weight :)

I just saw your second post- many, many thanks for this information. The banana-zucchini loaf and upside-down apple cake are gone now, and I'm committed to reducing my grain/wheat/carb intake once again. I wish I didn't like baking so much :(

That's helpful to know about my maintenance calorie range. I track on MFP and was looking back at my logs from June-July, when I was the same weight but on the path to losing. I was eating very similarly to what I eat now. I wonder if I'm not tracking now as closely as I should be and eating more than I think I am.

I'm going to track very carefully now and still aim for 1200-1400 calories a day. If I continue to maintain I'll follow your advice about getting checked up. It does seem rather low to me, especially because I generally get in activity every day. I do eat back some calories after long runs, but that's about it. I'm only 25 with a fair amount of muscle mass, and the TDEE calculators put me around 1900 or so for maintenance.

Thank you again for this wealth of information!

Hey indiblue! Thanks for posting your update.

About TDEE--it took me over a year to finally understand that TDEE from calculators is just too high for me. They were giving me calorie numbers of 1700-1900, depending on which one I used. Well, I wanted to be able to eat that much! Doggone it! But the reality is, my daily burn is lower than that. I found this out by fighting and struggling and regaining and relosing until I just had to stop for awhile.

At this point I'm trying to get back down to my previous goal weight, but I no longer am concerned about whether I can match some calculated TDEE when I get there. My main concern now is the macronutrient balance--protein, carbs, fat--and not the calorie count. (Incidentally, my thyroid continues to test as normal.) And, who knows, I may not reach my previous goal weight. It may not be possible for me now. So I have to consider what kaplods was talking about--at what point am I unwilling to make more changes and must accept my weight?

Good luck,
Jay

Kaplods, I approached this weight loss attempt similar to how you described in your post, and it has made a world of difference. Just one example: At the beginning of my weight loss attempt, I swore off formal exercise, i.e., the type done at the gym (mainly because I always dread it). I just decided to be more active for at least an hour a day, most days of the week. That has worked well so far. This fall, though, I had a hankering to participate in some fitness classes. I've been doing that 1-2 times a week. My gym recently had a special rate that ended up being cheaper than the rate I pay per class, so I joined. Last night, I was worried that I might not get in my hour of activity on Thursday & Friday because my schedule is thrown off those days. So, I decided I would go to the gym early this a.m. to work out on the elliptical, stair mill, etc. I had a small amount of dread about it last night and an even bigger dread this morning, so you know what? I decided not to go. It's not so much willpower for me as it is that I do not want to start dreading this process.

Right now, I'm typing as I walk slowly on my own treadmill, so that's my exercise for the day.

To the OP, it seems like you are so much more at peace than in your first post. Good for you!

I've been following this thread with great interest because I feel that Indiblue posed a question that many of us face.

I seemed to go through phases in my life, Indiblue. When I was fat, I felt my weight was completely out of my control and I felt somewhat alienated from my body. I didn't fully believe in cause and effect, or that I could succeed at a sustained weight loss effort. Actually, I didn't know what such an effort was like. There was lots of talk of "cutting back" but I never embarked on it systematically, like a project.

Finally, I did embark on it systematically, like a project. It took me years to transfer lessons learned from other parts of my life, like doing written work, and apply it to my weight loss and fitness. Years. (I try not to think about the wasted time.)

Then, when I grasped simple cause-and-effect, and was rewarded by results from my efforts, I realized that I did, actually, have control.

That was the point when I lost it somewhat, the first time around. Because I went from underestimating how much control I had over my body to overestimating what such control could accomplish. I thought sheer will, constant vigilance, perfect choices and highly targeted physical exertion could completely reshape my body, as if it were clay in my hands, and my muscles and tendons and fat deposits had no genetic predispositions at all.

But one of the problems with believing that I have total control is the awful burden of complete responsibility. That if I don't find and keep up the perfect regimen for a lifetime, and my body doesn't look as I want, it's ENTIRELY MY FAULT. It would mean that I failed at sustaining the effort. I was slothful, weak, governed by appetites, pleasure-seeking, short-sighted ... all those moral failings popularly attributed to fat people.

The only way out of that self-castigating loop is to acknowledge that sheer will can only manage so much. And, you know, I'm American, and a lot of the beliefs in our culture are ingrained in me, so that's hard for me to believe. In America, you're supposed to be all that you can be, achieve all your potential. If you don't succeed, it's your fault. You just didn't work hard enough. At times I have felt that my body is like a billboard for my work ethic & whether I am a good little striver or not.

My whole weight loss & maintenance is a great big flaming metaphor for how I conduct my entire life.

What I'm coming around to is, there are cultural and psychological things behind "settling" and "pushing", too. Everyone carries a different mixture of these influences inside them, and everyone works this out differently.

Me, I'm always in hand-to-hand combat with disordered thinking and behaviors.

Alas, I wish that one moment of insight into one's self & one's habits or one piece of perfectly written advice delivered over the Internet could instantly and magically end that conflict. It doesn't. Because it's the mind here as much as the body.

In the end, I have more control than I thought I did, but less control than I grew to think I did.

I think the fuel that fires this dilemma is that we're taught to see weight loss as a black or white, success or fail endeavor. We're not used to seeing it in shades of gray, and we're taught that we should only ever accept perfection.

Problem is, if we can't be "perfectly good," we often decide to be perfectly horrible.

Sinner or Saint, and we judge ourselves accordingly - we even use the language "I've been bad today," or "I'm tired of being good."

It's not about perfection at all, there are endless shades of gray. Once you relize there is no perfect, and that even "healthy" is in the eye of the beholder, it gets a lot easier.

I've really fallen in love with cost-benefit analysis. Because then I don't have to worry about what I "should" do, I look at what makes the most sense. Seeing the pros and cons, and realizing that my decision today doesn't have to be my decision next week, next month, or next year.

"For now, I'm willing to do x in order to accomplish (or try to accomplish) y."

I've given up the "stress" of trying to be perfect, or even making the "best" decision. I think we underestimate the value of "good enough for now."

saef I agree with everything, everything you wrote. For me, gaining weight was something I thought was out of my control. When I realized it was a direct result of my eating too much and moving not enough I took responsibility and did something about it. I got control over my weight before it took control of me. Now I am realizing at some point my responsibility ends and my body's own unique quirks and characteristics take over. I need to realize at some point that my weight is not me giving up or ceding responsibility- it just is what it is.

Jay your TDEE explanation was helpful. Thank you. I'm okay if I can only eat 1200-1400 a day with exercise... if that's how it's going to be. And it's a good point you make that it may change at some point. I need to be aware of that.

lin I'm with on the exercise. Some days I have enough motivation and passion to run or lift for an hour. Some days I don't, and that's okay. I try to get in a small walk or short light yoga session to at least get some movement in.

kaplods It's interesting, the "fail versus succeed," "bad versus god" dichotomies have never really rung in my head. I've never really been mad at myself or disappointed that I didn't achieve "perfection" in my eating that day. For me it's more of a cognitive dissonance that's troubling: "I wanted to do this today but I didn't."

What does upset me is when I do something I internally didn't want to do, or vice verse. It can relate to my diet, my exercise, work, an article I'm writing with someone, cleaning the house, finishing up a grad school application, etc. I intended to study Spanish today but I watched TV instead, and now I regret that I didn't follow through with what I wanted. The same thing happens with my diet. It does frustrate me when I decide that I don't want to eat dessert that night and I end up doing so. My short-term emotional decision-maker wins over my long-term rational decision-maker. (I am an economics nerd and talk about this constant battle often- well-described in the book on human economic behavior called Nudge.)

I agree with the idea that perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good. I have high expectations of myself but I certainly have never been a perfectionist at anything in my life. To me it's not about being perfect, it's about following through with actions you know you want to do and would ultimately be happier for.

What a powerful post, and how well-written! The bits I've quoted really resonate with me.

I remember how disappointed I was the first time I lost weight, after a lifetime of being overweight or obese. I had no idea what I looked like under the fat, and part of me really thought I'd look like a model, even though I have a very different body shape than any model.

At long last, I've come to realise that I can only achieve so much with my body - aesthetically or fitness wise - and that knowledge has given me a sense of peace and equilibrium. Now I'm working with my body, instead of fighting it.

saef, brilliantly expressed. You can be so articulate on these topics.

RedPanda, I was not heavy as a younger person, but even at my thinnest adult weight, I was not model caliber--so I am fortunate that I never had that expectation.

indiblue, perhaps you are familiar with the Japanese phrase rikutsu-poi? What it means in English, or so I have heard, is "smacking too much of a logic that defies reality." I think that's often what the "planner within" gets involved in when setting intentions.

I like the middle path--the path that is free from extremes. I know that I can control some things, even many things; I also know that my control has limits.

I can't explain why I make some of the choices I do.

I do try to follow my intentions, while knowing it comes down to minute-by-minute decisions. I also try to lighten up and not take things so terribly seriously. :)

Jay