I guess what I struggle with while limiting food intake is what I call the "constant vigilence" required in order for me to stay on plan. The fact that I must plan ahead, shop, prepare and cook on a never-ending basis when I don't always have time or inclination to do so.
In fact, I sometimes find it hard to make menus etc. because I want to eat "what I have a taste for". And that's hard to predict days in advance. Which is probably just another manifestation of my perverted relationship to food: I want to eat for pleasure (what I have a taste for, what will make me feel good) every time I put food in my mouth. Basically, I concentrate on leaner versions of my favorites: burgers, tacos, pasta bolognese, roasted chicken, crusty bread sandwiches. Then I eat these same things over and over and over again.
I too enjoy the sense of play that comes with food. Every activity is so laced with food and drink, that is hard to *not* make that association. I don't have a single friend that would revel in getting together to jog as much as they do our cocktail and dinner parties. I wouldn't know where to find someone like that!
I'll keep working on myself though. Day 2 still on plan. No exercise yet. I hope you ladies are doing well.
Hey Sue,
I don't have a single friend that would revel in getting together to jog as much as they do our cocktail and dinner parties. I wouldn't know where to find someone like that!
L
This is BIG.
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Yes, eating is so fun. I'm trying to remember when I was a kid and it was no big deal. I always had a healthy appetite, but was very thin and active, and I think food was just not a big deal.
So true, Sue, about the constant vigilance. It is tiring. I'm actually tired of the obsession with food. Really tired. Im' either having to be vigilant and do all this sh#t that I don't want to do, like total my calories, plan my food, etc., OR I'm obsessive in the other extreme and thinking about food too much, what I want to eat, too much time eating.
While whinning about the restriction,-some good news-I have lost all of the 5 lb gain plus 1/2 of a lb. Mini goal -hope to be 319 by the end of Sept.
Thanks for acknowledging the difficulty of this "thinking like a thin person" stuff-Actually right now I am thinking like a very fat person striving to eat as thin person. Aint't easy but there really isn't any other choice for me.
A fun food thing is that we just started getting a bag of organic fresh picked farm veggies that we get once a week in town. Helps the local farmer, makes me learn about new vegggies and new recipes, fresh really does taste so much better.
Basically I continually repeat the same menu also. I go for about 350 cals for each breakfast and lunch, About 700 for dinner and an added splurge of wine for another 80-100 cal. You have any dishes which would work in this Plan? L how do you make lower cal tacos-sounds great, what is your roasted chicken dish? Anyway anything you two feel like sharing to break the monotony would be great.
So true that we can always party with others, but dieting and exercising is really done alone. Diet discusssions can really be unsuccessful, either it not their problems, it is their problem but not ready to deal with it, or they know the perfect solution for me or the worst is that moralizing attitude about how in the h*ll did I let myself go so much. Actually a couple is coming this weekend who have this attitude of superiority about my weight. It can be a bit of strain for me, They deny it when confronted, but give me little digs while we are together for my own good. The good news is that while I"ll be a bit stress, their smuggness stops me from overeating. It is after they leave that I'll want a quick tension release by then using some food. I think I'll plan for rewarding snack for that time.
Well thanks for just being here, I think it is help for me to write about this stuff, For me acknowledging negative inner dialogue is part of the process to release it. Poor DH just nods his head and wishes me well. He and his family are all thin and this type struggle just doesn't make sense. Not judgemental but not wishing to emotionaly involved.
I am off to swim- ah for the golden jewel studded candle holder.
Hi Girly, I too get tired of the food-obsession required to "eat better." But when I look at what "eating at will" has done to me, I have to admit that isn't the best either. I do accept that it's okay to have periods of control and periods of freedom in order to maintain, so I just have to get to maintenance phase. And actually STAY THERE for a change, huh? How's the exercise going? I need some inspiration. Please tell me this is like Day 7 or something!
And Hey Sue, CONGRATS ON THE WEIGHT LOSS! I'm sorry to hear you smug thin people coming over soon. I hate people like that! When I was in school we had this one teacher who was tall and thin and always talked about "obesity this" and "obesity that" every time she talked about anything health related. I wanted to shove an eclair down her throat until she choked! I hope you can get through the weekend without too much stress. And do plan on a treat at the end. That will give you something to look forward to.
As for my lower-calorie version of tacos, I just buy extra lean beef (like 160 calories for 4 oz.) and fry it with onion, garlic, chili powder and cumin. Then I eat it with 2 corn tortillas (100 calories), an ounce of chihuahua cheese (110 calories) and about 2/3 cup of pico de gallo (50 calories). There's so much flavor from all the spices that it tastes more decadent than it is.
And the roast chicken just comes from the rotisserie at the grocery store. I buy one of those bags of fresh broccoli or cauliflower that you can steam in the microwave and make a meal from that.
Well, I'd better go to bed. I'm about half dead. The new house creeped me out and I couldn't sleep so well last night. It's too quiet around here! :-)
yumm making that taco soon-what is chihuahua cheese? cheddar? low fat?
Our grocery also has the rotisserie chicken-it seems like they are cooked on monday, stored until Thursday, then put them out- so dried out-not good.
Hang in there being back on the plan. It ain't easy, but hate the consequence when not the doing all this preplanning. When I try to think positively I view this as a curable disease. It is a hard one to reverse, but we have the option of doing it. We can do it. We are not just dieting, we are dealing with an addiction-Just was reading Bob Greene's The Best life Diet-nothing too new, but he did note some of new research-overaters have less serotonin which causes cravings of sugary and starchy foods. Some research that show fat and sugar can actually limit the release of stress hormones.
we have to weather some geniune physical changes in the brain along with being hungry. It isn't easy but we can do it! Remember feelings are temporary but the fat gains can be permanent. Can really understand being hungry, angry, furstrated, stressed, discouraged, whiny, but they all do pass. Just an H*ll of lot slower when I overeat.
I did go swimming and have been doing 50 minutes a day, today I decided to do much faster laps-overdid it and got so depleted but continue to push myself during the day so when DH walked thur the door I blasted him about the chaos about the house-he is bigger packrat than me (however my mess doesn't brother me as much) It was uncalled for, but he was so understanding.thanks heaven. Tomarrow I doing some on call work and will not swim in the morning- Still the guady will be mine.
Well, I weighed myself yesterday and today and it's true. I somehow managed to lose a pound during the move, despite a 10-day run of fast food and rotten eating. I guess all that good old fashioned manual labor is what made the difference. Now if I could just change jobs and go work for a moving company....
Sue, chihuahua cheese is a Mexican white cheese that is very mild tasting but not at all low-fat. You could use cheddar or whatever you like. Fresh pico de gallo is one of my favorite indulgences from the local Mexican store where I used to live. You could actually make your own though: chop tomatoes, jalapenos, onions, garlic, cilantro and salt (maybe a squeeze of lime?) and mix together. I can't give up full-fat cheeses! Only sharp cheddar will work for me in low-fat variety. There are some tastes that can't be imitated: real butter, olive oil, mayonnaise, cheese (hmmm....notice a theme here?)
I agree that we are probably low on serotonin. I worked in an obesity clinic once (Optifast clinic) and the doctor there used to listen to my theories and either laugh or agree. He told me the thing about food releasing serotonin, and he agreed with me that fat people have the wires between their stomachs and their brains crossed/formed differently. I had this theory that our stomachs contain stretch receptors and some of us get an extra shot of "feel-good chemicals" when our stomachs are stretched out and full, which is why we eat past the point of fullness. He looked at me funny when I said that but I believe it.
Good for you, doing the exercise all those days! That's what is making the difference. Us slightly-more-mature ladies really need the exercise before we can drop the pounds. Keep up the good work! DH finally got my TV hooked up downstairs so I can work out but ran out of cord to connect the VCR so I'm still on foot until the weekend. All this dogwalking has to count for something though! (Our fence won't be built for another month and the dog is making a monkey out of us acting like she has to pee about every hour...)
Hey Girly, wherever you are! Let us know how you're doing!
Hi guys,
I'm running thru a bout of depression. I haven't felt this bad in a long time. I've been reading thru the other Beck book, and it's really brought up a lot of sad feelings and dissatisfaction with my life. Basically, looking at the *whys* of why you eat and then fixing it.
There's a part about rats, and and experiemnt that was done where rats were given a rat park, and another group were given cages, and the rats that had the luxurious, everything-a-pet-rat-could want type park, with activities, and socialization opps, and fun tubes, etc....when the rat park group was given water with an addictive drug *morphine, I think* they wouldnt' touch it, and the rats in the cage quickly became addicted to the morphine water (subsitute that for becoming addicted to food). And it's meant to show that if we're happy, we wont' want substances, and it brought so many dissatisfied feelings up besides truly feeling like I'm in a rat trap.
I'm feeling like the focus on diet in BDS, the many, many tasks , are all too much. Spritually, I think that the more I focus on something the bigger it gets, and that focusing is just bringing more dieting and damn lists into my life.
And I don't feel that I'm making progress. I'm definitely not making progress weight wise, but even with my controlling my food, I'm not sure if I'm any better really. I just don't think it should have to be this HARD. I think it's not natural for it to be this HARD. I don't like being a failure. I'm not sure if struggling is the way to be successful; I'm not sure if I buy into that things should be hard philosophy of our culture.
Anyway, sorry to bring the rain clouds in. I'm glad that you two are feeling the progress and that it's showing up physically, too.
tough place- It is a hard balance to change the addiction and cope with the hard emotions which addictions can mask. Very very hard work,. Get some support -friends, possible counselor, You are not a failure I have many of such negative thoughts, have gone on and off of anti-depressions. Some of this stuff is core patterns from childhood. Maybe focus on changing some of deep internally attitude is the key now.
If it would help to write and vent to us, we would glad to listen and respond. When your spirit is down, is seems unimportant to measure out bits of food and so it is.
keep in touch
sue
I absolutely agree with Sue. When you are hurting all over, it seems inconsequential to be worried about how many spoons of potatoes to put on a plate. You just can't do that right now until you come out of the depth you happen to be in. And if you don't want to do TBDS, you can do whatever you like as long as you continue thinking about it, working on it and moving toward changing to a healthier way.
In fact, we don't have to be the TBDS thread. Honestly, we haven't followed the book much lately anyway. We seem to be the "introspective self-analyzing dieters" thread....or something like that. We'd sure love to keep you with us. There is strength in numbers and right now our magic number is 3.
I've felt like that addicted rat before too--especially when it comes to sugar. I will cram sweets in my mouth like a giant meteor is heading for my house and I want to get that last bite before I die. Bite after bite after bite...craving the next one before I've finished the last. It's like a drug. ****, it IS a drug. And, I guess, yeah, we reach for drugs when we're not satisfied with our current state. I'm often unhappy, and reach for my drug of choice a lot as a result. Does the book say it can be fixed? Does it say how?
Sue, I've been on antidepressants before too. Various unwanted side effects have been the reason I stopped. And you're right. We need to change those negative patterns of thinking. Just like in that article you read. Rewire.
Keep venting ladies. We're here to listen, reflect back, and help each other change.
I just went to the 4 Day Win website and read some blurbs from the book. I think I'll get a copy at the bookstore tomorrow and start reading it. I like the concept that it takes 4 days of practice to master a new technique. Judith Beck's lesson-a-day did not work for me. I need to repeat some stuff over and over and over! Also I like the scientific studies she talks about. I'd like to read more.
Girly hope you doing better-my depressions seems to come and go at times-Some days I have a much greater and quicker bounce back ability. I got very down for a number of months after a 10 minute visit the doc said take this- a genetic wellbutrin- then after 3 months when I did not feel much better he said doubled it-never called back or anything. I then became very very nervous-guess this can be a side effect of the meds, got a a very stressed and fearful of driving,-not good with the closest store 5 miles away. So I just slowly got my self off of the stuff. I guess getting help with depression is a lot like going to a mechanic-some docs are whizzes, other OK and some don't have a clue what to do but charge alot of money. But keep working on what feels good for you-friends, meds, exercising, talking, meditating, changing life style.
I am nervous with the arrival of our friends/relatives. They are very judgemental and the kid in me wants their approval. Yet I think that they are judgemental to bolster their own self esteem. To them is is more important to feel superior than to have fun. Thier critical approach to life is so ingrained- yet they are so unhappy I want to rescue them and tell them off all in the same 5 minutes. I started the day by dumping a hugh cup of coffee on the bed-knew I was stressed so wanted a slow start and read in bed-wrong. After cleaning that up for 20 minutes, then I could start on the rest of the house. So I am having a very very hungry day. I have managed to record all the food-That is hugh for the mindless eater. The count is higher than normal but not that bad just may end up being a 1700-1800 day. Separate from the total cals, If I continue to record the food it will a sucess if I am aware of all that I eat.
One of these days I will final say no and mean it to some situations. To me sometimes being the "nice" one puts me a rat cage, the rat cage of no one likes me if I take care of myself, If I don't cooperate or if I confront others. Eating Ice cream can sure feel like I am taking care of myself, however my body is left a mess.
I can't tell you how much your kind posts helped me. It's great that I can be myself, 100% here. THANK YOU.
Sue, at this point, I think meds are not for me. I had one dark experience with, funny you should mention that story, a complete incompetent doc, and that was enough to keep me running away. The meds were all wrong, and I had to go off of it by myself b/c I couldn't reach my doc, and I was having radical panic attacks on it, which was the whole reason I went on it, but they got way worse.
Also, I hate going to doctors after like 8 years of constant doc visits, with the onset of my undiagnosed thyroid disorder whcih mushroomed into all this other stuff, so I have to be really bad off to go to one these days. For better or worse, I have to do it w/o Anti-Ds. I feel so FREE not having all these doc appts anymore.
I would only use anti-ds as a total last resort, like suicidal, and I'm not even anywhere close to that kind of depression. It was a blue type feeling coupled with extreme frustration.
That book is really powerful, scarily powerful.
Liannie, the book isn't well-edited. I'd strongly recommend that you don't do the jump start plan b/c it's really jumbled. It's better just to read thru the whole book. Also, the chapter with the part of choosing a diet that matches your style of personality--there are some mistakes in that that are pretty substantial. Let me know when you get there and I'll tell you which part. (just mistakes in editing that affect the content)
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Sue,
I'm sorry that you have to suffer. Are they your husband's relatives? Do you HAVE to see them? It's sounds really insidious since they sound like they're somewhat indirect w/their criticism. I hope that you can make it thru unscathed.
My eating is sh*t, still doing great with the exercise tho. Kayaked with some students yesterday for 90 minutes.
Girly, I'm glad you're coping and still exercising. That makes the difference when eating is askew. I somehow managed to lose a pound during the move while I was eating like a trucker, just because of the exercise, so hopefully you will do the same.
Sue, I'm so sorry to hear about those crazy people. I can really see the tension building in your post. All you can do now is hope to get past it as quickly as possible. I've always had this hatred of the tendency to "pick on the fat lady". I used to say that even our sorrow didn't move people to be sympathetic to us. Think about it...someone who looks like Julia Roberts breaks down and cries and everyone wants to hug her. Someone who looks like Rosie O'Donnell does it, they just say "dry up you fat slob." It really makes me sick!
But you hit on a BIG thing in your post when you said "One of these days I will final say no and mean it to some situations. To me sometimes being the "nice" one puts me a rat cage,..." Sometimes we are so busy pleasing others, trying to convince people we are worthy, that we betray our own selves and then suffer the internal consequences.
I hope both of you ladies were able to eat decently yesterday, despite the bad feelings. It sure is hard.
As for me, I ate okay yesterday but still have not exercised yet beyond the daily dogwalks. My basement workout area is definitely on the agenda for this weekend though. We are somewhat crippled by the fact that there is only ONE electrical outlet in the entire basement. I am going to buy a DVD/VCR and an industrial strength extension cord at the store today so I can get back started tomorrow.
I'll check back with you all later on. I hope your Saturday runs smoothly.
Girly glad to read your posting-I admire your continous exercising-alot of studies that alone is so positive for us.-more muscle burns more fat, the brain is happier, and heart is stronger. I like swmming to much because is brings back happy childhood memories of swimming in lakes in MN. Also now it is also the only movement that does not hurt. Yeah, you can fit in a kayak along with paddling it. I envy you that size and energy. I would love to fit in one! Yesterday my DH said yes, your thighs and stomach look thinner but that makes your rear look bigger. hummm I think I got a complement?
L agree with the prejudice of being fat . Some folks act like I lost brain cells and ethics as I increased and enlarged fat cells. It is all back to the old attitude that obesity is due to lack of will power and weak moral character.
Thanks for the support of the stress of the company. There was some awkward times, but all in all it went well. When I get some distance on their behaviors, they are quite insecure. They worked on being appreciative and I work on not being so judgmental when they were negative. I must admit I have let years of unspoken hurts fester in me and add that to the stress.
We did hear a great bluesy rock band last night -why they were here-wow the band was so good, the rhythm and energy filled my body and felt so good. What a sprite high the evening was. It helped me to remember that each situation has different energies and I need to feel the differences. This does sound sort of woo-woo but I think I can absorb others' energy unknowingly-thus around tense folks I become nervous, ect. So last night I could absorb my guests' gloom and anxiety or the band's enthusiasm. Yep I went with the great time.
Still love the rat cage ideas and want to stop creating my cages due to old ways. I can emotionally panic around unhappy, upset, angry people who want to direct such feelings at me. I would love to have the power to be able to have such "attack" go thur me and maintain my sense of self.
you guys are great to let me carry on with these ideas-the scary part is that some of them do make sense to me.
Food-I had alot of wine, and loved every drop. I am allowing today also to be an unstructure day of eating. Tommarrow I shall Return to fitday! The candle will have to be next's week goal. This week my best just could not include 5 times of swimming.
Yes, y'all, it is time to confess; I have been lurking....lurking because I find the most POWER in what Beck has to say........also because I was posting on Fat Smash........I truly believe that is the healthiest diet I have ever seen...and yes, I do realize it is possible to do both...Beck says pick one......and then I jumped into the plateau/relapse thread.........but what caused me to JUMP INTO THE WATER.....pardon the pun........was Coastalsue saying her swimming brought her back to Minnesota days...........that hit home....caused me a twang....cuz here I live on a lake......love to swim, but have only done so a few times this year......I do take advantage of summer every day, but mostly with non-stop gardening......you are all seem so close.........is is OK with all of you if I join???
