Update on me in case this happens to anyone else...

I am down 9 pounds in 2 days. Given that I am probably not even back in ketosis yet, I'll take it even though I am still shocked at a 20 pound gain in 6 days, regardless of the reason why. It has me that much more worried about results upon phase off - I guess the phase off is critical so this doesn't happen when one moves to phase 4. For now, I am just hoping these 20 pounds are gone within 2 weeks if not sooner.

It certainly sounds like you may be in ketosis, Ro22, as that sounds like depletion of glycogen stores and loss of some water weight.

Glad to hear it's coming off and putting you back on track.

I've read a few complaints from people who have gained weight after IP, but when you dig into the stories, and see the questions asked and answered, it's nearly always people who think that phasing off isn't necessary. Just look at how successful our 3FC IP vets are at not gaining - because they phase out and keep a broad eye on their macros.

So many people seem to believe that a diet is a miracle cure that allows them to go back to the old habits once they reach goal weight, and they tend to be the ones who don't think the protocol is tried and tested and should be followed.

Ro22, thank you for sharing your experience and update. I will be doing IP for several more months, but I am already thinking about maintenance and weight gain after the diet. This thread has taught me a lot about the importance of phasing off appropriately when it's time. I definitely feel more informed. Thanks to all of you who contributed information as well!

I know dairy can be a big issue for many people. My older son was dairy intolerant as a baby/toddler and it's in a ton of processed foods. He's outgrown the intolerance and we actually have a local farm that delivers our dairy, eggs, and butter!

This is the most troubling part for me - I didn't go anywhere close to old habits - I had what I thought was a normal/slightly above normal caloric intake expecting to gain a few pounds - I actually wanted to gain a few pounds as I have been experiencing symptoms for last 3 weeks the way they describe what happens in week 1 so I just wanted dizziness and fuzziness to go away. I never expected a 20 pound gain and an increase in numerous inches. I joined this program because of its phasing as I have never successfully phased off - I'm either gaining or losing and I wanted to get off that roller coaster. I am glad I got right back after 6 days because I didn't feel well abruptly being off phase 1 either. The good news is that it was very easy for me to get right back to phase 1 protocol on Monday - lesson learned.

Well, it does seem alarming that you went up 20 pounds so easily but losing 9 in 2 days is also a lot. So, it does seem that you body reacts pretty strongly to something. So, I would take this as a sign to follow the phases pretty closely and maybe add back in food groups slowly to see how you react to them.

You're welcome. I will keep providing updates as I am learning through this too as I am anxious to see how long it takes to get the 20 pounds off. I will give an update tomorrow and then I'll be traveling for a week so I will provide another update when I make it back off the road next Friday.

Btw, I don't think I am yet as Ketostix does not show that I am. I am going to check again tomorrow. I am hoping for another big drop tomorrow. I can see myself shrinking back to size I was a week ago. Today was a big difference as compared to last 2 days.

Ketostix don't really tell you anything useful. They are designed for diabetics and people with kidney issues, and if you register more than trace on a ketostick, that means you have EXCESS proteins in your urine which is a BAD thing. In Ketosis, you don't have excess proteins because your body is using ketones for energy.

Whether you are in ketosis or not has little to do with the calories you are eating, and much more to do with the carbs you are eating. Ketosis happens when you deplete your glycogen stores (which are replenished by the carbs you eat). If you are following P1 and are not unusually sensitive to carbs, you are in ketosis.

Ok, after 3 days back on phase 1, I am down 12.2 pounds. I am flying out today so I won't be able to weigh myself daily to check my progress. I hope when I get back next Friday, I am back down below where I was.

Interesting on Ketostix - I know what ketosis is but hadn't heard that info regarding the sticks - I measured moderate ketosis for many weeks for first few months on this program and now I am hearing this was a bad thing...hmmmm. If that were true, why didn't my coach flag that as a problem? In fact, he told me not to change a thing as he said I was getting optimal results.

Because most coaches are not trained health professionals. They purchase the rights to sell IP and take the basic info training from the company, but that doesn't mean they've done the extra research to really understand how ketosis works (among other things). Measuring blood ketones is really the only way you could quantify whether you were in ketosis or not via a test - urine ketostix only measure excess (unused) ketones. this is an excerpt from Wikipedia on Ketosis:

"Note that urine measurements may not reflect blood concentrations. Urine concentrations will be lower with greater hydration, and after adaptation to a ketogenic diet the amount lost in the urine drops while the metabolism remains ketotic. In addition most urine strips only measure acetoacetate, while after adaptation the predominant ketone body is β-hydroxybutyrate.[10] Ketoacidosis is a metabolic derangement that cannot occur in a healthy individual who can produce insulin, and should not be confused with physiologic ketosis."

When I did IP the first time nobody used the word Ketosis. Even though it was the mechanism they were using. I knew it. I had read bodyopous,- by Dan Duchaine Atkins, Rapid Fat loss all a decade prior and mountains of material mostly at this point in the fitness realm.

My wager over the last few years the word doesn't have the same negative associations in the profession as much. So much science is out showing how much better a VLCD approach is versus LFHC approach. So now it is a selling point.

Here is a nice little blog post on what may be causing your stalling on a VLCD approach.
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/201...d-Read-Further
ruled.me is a nice keto centric site I recently found. http://www.ruled.me/ketosis-ketones-and-how-it-works/

I nerd out on this stuff at a research page level. I also listen to frequent researchers on the topics primarily associated with VLCD approach. I am interested in capacities a human body performance goal might that may not be fat loss related, using a ketogenic real food approach for a fatloss, and neuro and cognitive function treatments.

In summary Keto stick measure acetoacetate of the ketosis mechanism and excess protein is expressed as albumin and known as Proteinuria. They are tested using separate regent chemicals. keto sticks only flag acetoacetate using the reagent Nitroprusside for ketones and Bromophenol blue for albumin (protein) measurements. Keto sticks only measure Ketone bodies, more exact acetoacetate.

The only downside of a high excess ketone expression I have read is might get a slight insulin bump and shutdown the formation of ffa. The % of ketones in waste is very little as percentage of energy created. Measuring BHB in the blood is the best way. I would use any of these measures only to figure out your boundaries and not tie performance to them.

Lyle McDonald book the ketogenic diet. - One molecule of FFA will yield 129 to 300 ATP or more depending on the length of the FFA that is burned. Compared to aerobic glycolysis (which produces 36-39 ATP per molecule of glucose), fats provide far more energy. However, more oxygen is required to burn one molecule of FFA compared to burning one molecule of carbohydrate. This means that the body has to work harder to oxidize fats than glycogen during exercise. Although FFA produces more energy per molecule, carbohydrate is still a more efficient fuel.
My comment - In the words of Tim Ferris, 'we don't necessarily want efficient we want effective'. Ketone is the effective choice and glucose is the efficient choice.
I had previously done the math of variation in ketone ATP and ATP from glycolosis has about a 10% variation in ATP production and FFA to ketones is nearly a 60% variation depending on the length of the fat chain. That ketone ATP variation can contribute to an excess. Ketosis is a one way street. That ffa molecule becomes a ketone it is burned or discharged. Unlike standard glucose energy mechanisms in metabolisms.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129158/

Very true - I know more than my coach but I would think they would at least be trained on harmful effects which you alluded to in regards to my many months' reading of Ketostix showing moderate ketosis.

Out of curiousity, I am wondering how long it takes to get back in ketosis after 6 days off. Is it still the 2-3 days they cite or less than that after being in ketosis for 6 months?

Really depends on your glycogen stores, and how effectively you can deplete them.
When I started my reboot. 36 hours with no strain to achieve, I have done it in 24 but it isn't easy.

It can vary dramatically person to person.