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Old 02-08-2015, 12:32 PM   #1  
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I have had much success following phase 1 of the ip protocol using alternatives. I have attempted for years to lose 30 lbs. without success until I embarked on this plan.
I really enjoyed phase 1, I had already given up my soda habit and letting go of bread and fruit was not difficult for me at all.
I am a person who tends to focus on what I am doing in the moment, without giving a lot of thought to the bigger picture.
Eventually it came time to consider phase 2 as I was at a weight that I was very happy with and was ready to phase out. I had previously read the phase 2 protocol and knew what was expected and was feeling very leary about my ability to do it and kept putting it off. However, I realized I could not continue on phase 1 forever, no matter how much I was enjoying it. So I began phase 2. Following through with that did prove to be difficult for me. I managed 9 full days of phase 2 ( admittedly there was a crab and sushi meal out during those 9 days), but by the time my dinner for day 10 came, I was pretty much chocking down the last portion of my protein. I remembered reading that some ladies who phased out before vacation (or to continue with protocol) were saying that their coach said it was okay not to do the whole 14 days of phase 2 and move to phase 3. I thought great...I will move on to phase 3. When I read the protocol sheet and saw that phase 3 was still 2 8oz. servings of protein a day with the addition on a piece of fruit or some toast, I balked. What!!! I knew I would be unable to eat all that protein from my experience of 10 days on phase 2 and I am really not sure that I choose to continue to eat bread, or even fruit for that matter. My decision was to set that all aside and continue on phase 1 with cheating....ie crab and sushi 1 day a week and a handful of raw almonds almost everyday. I am pretty sure I am not in ketosis most of the time because of these cheats.
Now I don't have a clue what to do. I know I cannot stay on phase 1 forever. Since Christmas I am not losing weight, nor do I necessarily want to, and happily, I am maintaining my loss.
I read somewhere in this forum where a gentleman had said that the plan works the way it is so don't try to change it. I so agree with that, and I sincerely wish I could phase out the way I am meant to, but it is just way too much food for me to sustain that for 4 weeks (phase 2 & 3). I am 5'2 and weigh 138lbs at 59 years of age. I teach 5 yoga classes a week and participate in 2 fitness classes a week, so activity is not an issue. I still take my supplements. The only downfall for me is that my hair is falling out at an alarming rate. I have read the forums on that issue and 1 gal commented that it was actually not falling out, just not growing. I have to disagree, my hair is most definitely falling out and maybe it isn't growing, I don't know.
I spend some time almost every day considering what to do next and I am stymied. I feel like I am right back to where I was before losing weight, obsessing about what to do with my diet. That was what I loved about phase 1, I didn't have to think about it.
I have had fun packing up and handing down my larger sized clothing as much as I have loved shopping thrift stores for smaller sized clothing. Like I said, I am very pleased with my results, but it does need to have an ending....just not sure how to play it out.
Any thoughts on this would be gratefully received. Perhaps you have had a similar experience and were able to work through it.
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Old 02-08-2015, 12:38 PM   #2  
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I highly suggest jumping into the maintenance thread and asking your question there. Those are the folks with the experience.
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Old 02-08-2015, 02:00 PM   #3  
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If the basic architecture of phase one allows you to maintain. You may not need to do much except find real food replacement for your packets. You only need to kick in enough calories to maintain. You don't even have to get out of ketosis if you don't have issue with ketosis.
You can be ketosis and maintain. Performance athletes do it all the time. Ben Greenfield is a triathelete, Mark Bell - power lifter, I also know of a high level grappler all use a ketogenic approach but weightloss is not the goal. Especially Greenfield, he is super skinny. People also treat nervous system and dementia with ketosis.
If you find real food equivalence and up you fat a bit to maintain. Your hair may stop falling out. The hair can be linked to thyroid down regulation. Fat helps that. An every 10-14 day spike in insulin (single meal or treat) can also help again it a hormone thing. This can be playing with fire depending on what got you to need IP but it works. Bodybuilders use this trick all the time because it also signals an anabolic response to the body when wanting to build lean muscle.
More so cholesterol, it is the primary building blocks to the hormone cascade. Like BCAA are for building muscle.


My wife is lucky if she eats much more than 1k a day. She isn't over weight or have any metabolic issues. She just has some ability to eat for her fueling needs. It really impressive because she doesn't read or practice diets. She is 5' something and maybe 110-120#. I avoid asking specifics.

You can get to a maintenance level of calories using fats and you don't have to worry about excess protein or getting too many carbs and the insulin fat storage mechanism related to that. Plus being more energy dense it takes less volume of it to get there if you feel like it too much food. Fats @ 9 calories per gram vs Protein and Carbs at 4 calories per gram.
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Old 02-08-2015, 04:04 PM   #4  
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In my experience, part of the success with IP and Phasing Off is twofold.

One is integrating into eating your own foods into your own lifestyle. If you cannot eat the whole 8 ounces of protein, consider a smaller portion. Could you manage 6 ounces?

In Phase 3, you don't have to eat bread, but it is good to reawaken the pancreas in the way the program does, so it does not go back to overproducing insulin and storing fat. It is to retrain the pancreas to respond properly, so the 2 weeks on Phase 3 is important, in my opinion.

The second aspect of Phasing Off with the IP recommended time frame of the four weeks is to consciously become aware of and work through the emotional fears that are surfacing with the reality of moving into maintaining. In my experience, people often have a few fears and insecurities that arise, so this is the opportunity to work through them.

Some people have breezed through the Phases, and then their real work for long term maintenance, the inner work, surfaced during the Phase Off period.

Perhaps that may offer some insight.

Last edited by Lynxxie; 02-08-2015 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:52 PM   #5  
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wylothar you are a wise man in more ways than one lol. What you have said makes sense to me, thank you for the clarity. How interesting that I have gravitated toward crab (cholesterol, protein, fat) and sushi (starch, sugar). Turns out I have been doing pretty much what you have suggested. To replace packets I have been using 2 eggs (more fat & calories)w/2 whites or 1 can of tuna or salmon or leftover chicken or ground poultry. I also continue to have green shakes with protein powder and I do still enjoy Simply Protein chips on my salad and Quest bars. I have been adding fats, in the form of almonds and olives.
Lynxxie you addressed my concerns about the role of phasing off on the pancreas, and you hit the nail on the head about the fear around phasing off. That is a big part of why I put it off. I feel ready now though and I feel I could do 6 oz. of protein instead of 8 at 1 of my meals.

Thank you both so much. What I am going to do is commit to 100% op for 2 weeks in phase 1 and then do 1 week of phase 2 (not sure about doing 2) and 2 weeks of phase 3. Also, I am going to take a look at the maintenance thread as Lisa has suggested. Man I feel so much better, much more relaxed now that I have direction, thanks again.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:27 PM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ommamma View Post
wylothar you are a wise man in more ways than one lol. What you have said makes sense to me, thank you for the clarity. How interesting that I have gravitated toward crab (cholesterol, protein, fat) and sushi (starch, sugar). Turns out I have been doing pretty much what you have suggested. To replace packets I have been using 2 eggs (more fat & calories)w/2 whites or 1 can of tuna or salmon or leftover chicken or ground poultry. I also continue to have green shakes with protein powder and I do still enjoy Simply Protein chips on my salad and Quest bars. I have been adding fats, in the form of almonds and olives.
Lynxxie you addressed my concerns about the role of phasing off on the pancreas, and you hit the nail on the head about the fear around phasing off. That is a big part of why I put it off. I feel ready now though and I feel I could do 6 oz. of protein instead of 8 at 1 of my meals.

Thank you both so much. What I am going to do is commit to 100% op for 2 weeks in phase 1 and then do 1 week of phase 2 (not sure about doing 2) and 2 weeks of phase 3. Also, I am going to take a look at the maintenance thread as Lisa has suggested. Man I feel so much better, much more relaxed now that I have direction, thanks again.
I am still on Phase 1 but have been researching maintenance and adding back in bread/carbs freaked me out also. Also, I am going on a vacation at spring break so I talked with my coach about phasing off. She encouraged me to reach my goal weight but told me that I could shorten the Phase 2 and Phase 3 to a week each (or less) and then go on my vacation, have fun but in phase 4/maintenance.
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Old 02-08-2015, 10:10 PM   #7  
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Regarding the 8 oz of protein - you can probably cut it down to 6 at each meal with no problem. My coach cut me down to six after I'd lost about 70 pounds. Said us shorties don't necessarily need 8. You can also break it up so you don't have to eat it all at once.
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Old 02-08-2015, 10:38 PM   #8  
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Thanks Ruth Ann, I was wondering about needing less calories as I loss weight but didn't factor in my height. Good point! Congratulations on your outstanding success! With teaching yoga, and needing to not have a full belly when I do, some days my window for eating a meal can be tight. I am going to keep in mind splitting it up, that would make it so much easier on those days that I need to eat earlier.
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Old 02-08-2015, 11:02 PM   #9  
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You are only 5'2" and at a good weight now. 5 to 6 oz is likely fine for you.
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Old 02-08-2015, 11:18 PM   #10  
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I won't be adding in any grain based carbohydrates into my maintenance. Or refined sugars.
I will go with safe starches minimally. http://thedomesticman.com/2014/12/26...arch-cookbook/

Our family health has improved by dumping grains and sugars even for the wife and she doesn't have weight issues.
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Old 02-09-2015, 08:25 AM   #11  
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Very interesting thread...I'm about 10 lbs from goal...I don't want to add grains & sugar/fruit back to my diet. I feel so much better without them. I'll be reading this thread as it progresses...thanks everyone!
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Old 02-09-2015, 09:16 AM   #12  
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Love this patns: Make choices today that your future self will thank you for!
I am considering a trip to your neck of the woods next month to surprise my granddaughter on her birthday!

wylothar you have sent me on a very interesting and enlightening search of safe starches. This resonates with me and I am going to look into it further.

Yes becky123abc, me too! I figure if I am not missing it, it probably wasn't anything I needed in the first place. Take a look at the link wylothar provided, an informative read.

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Old 02-09-2015, 09:31 AM   #13  
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Love this patns: Make choices today that your future self will thank you for!
I am considering a trip to your neck of the woods next month to surprise my granddaughter on her birthday!

wylothar you have sent me on a very interesting and enlightening search of safe starches. This resonates with me and I am going to look into it further.

Yes becky123abc, me too! I figure if I am not missing it, it probably wasn't anything I needed in the first place. Take a look at the link wylothar provided, an informative read.
Here is some information. I know most of the prominent people in the JERF (paleo) movement have different position. I think it boils down to the individuals response. For me it will have to be minimally. Jimmy Moore has this article and it includes some of the prominent people in the movement. I consider Jimmy a personality more than anything, but Dr. Kurt Harris, Robb Wolf, Chris Kresser, Diane Sanfilippo, Paul Jaminet are legitimate sources to consider.

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/i...arb-diet/11809

Last edited by wylothar; 02-09-2015 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:53 PM   #14  
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I think much of the traditional grain carbs are dependant on the unique biology and any sensitivities and hormone imbalances.

I have experimented (still firmly in P1 equivalent) with different types of bread, flours (mainly almond, hazelnut meal, coconut flour) and had no issues with weight loss stalling or feeling the "grain brain" or sluggishness that many gluten-sensitive folks suffer.

The only way to know how it will affect you is to try reintroducing it in very small amounts over a period of time so you know what is happening.

There are some great arguments from Wolf, Kresser, Greenfield and co that are backed by their own scientific research but, again, they don't know YOUR unique variables.
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Old 02-09-2015, 07:01 PM   #15  
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I think much of the traditional grain carbs are dependant on the unique biology and any sensitivities and hormone imbalances.

I have experimented (still firmly in P1 equivalent) with different types of bread, flours (mainly almond, hazelnut meal, coconut flour) and had no issues with weight loss stalling or feeling the "grain brain" or sluggishness that many gluten-sensitive folks suffer.

The only way to know how it will affect you is to try reintroducing it in very small amounts over a period of time so you know what is happening.

There are some great arguments from Wolf, Kresser, Greenfield and co that are backed by their own scientific research but, again, they don't know YOUR unique variables.
For sure, Kresser himself needs more carbs to operate he admits. I am not sure what types he uses. Knowing his history I doubt much grain is involved. His book 'paleo cure' in paperback and 'personal paleo code' in hardback offer those kind of troubleshooting information to design a tailored diet to an individual body responses.
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