I have a friend who is a recovering alcoholic, active in AA for many years. Recently she began giving me advice about overeating, comparing the principles involved to alcoholism. I found myself getting annoyed and a bit defensive. I agree there are some correlations but I believe it is a lot more complicated. With AA, the goal is to simply stop drinking. Some techniques employed are avoiding places where alcohol is served, not hanging with friends who drink, attending regular support groups, etc. When I suggested that there are differences, she doesn’t really see it. I know she means well and I'm happy for her success but the challenges we face are different in many ways.
To my way of thinking it is impossible to avoid food, or people who eat. There are no support groups other than those online. I guess my concern is that when I reach my goal and begin to add “regular food” back into my diet, I will have difficulty maintaining. I have never been able to do so with any consistency in the past. I said to her, “Would you be able to maintain sobriety if you had to drink just a little bit every day?” She really didn’t have an answer for that other than to tell me that if carbs are the problem, just don’t ever eat them. I’m beginning to think that might be the only solution.
I am wondering if any of you have had these conversations and what your thoughts might be?
I agree with both of you, there are similarities but there are differences. Ask her if she could have stopped drinking while still drinking, however I did avoid a lot of social situations during Phase 1. Entering Phase 4 I thought "this is like going to the bar for the first time after quiting smoking for 3 months"
As for support groups, I'm in TOPS, I weigh in weekly with like minded people and they supported my decision to go IP. There are three other people currently losing weight and we're all doing different things. I support those people too, IP isn't for everyone. Just like I couldn't do WW.
Check out www.tops.org and find one near you if you are interested. If you don't like the group, move along (shop for the group that's right for you). I didn't like the one that I originally found so I left and found some wonderful women in mine
Phase 4 is different, everyone has those fears. You have to find your own ways following the disassociation with fat/carbs. I do it differently then the next person. I don't eat the way I used to...I started lurking in the maintainers thread a few months before goal. ALSO, does your clinic do workshops, some of them do Phase 1-4 workshops. That's a good way to find like minded people. If not, ask your coach if she would be willing to start them.
Thanks Ishbel. Great suggestions. I know my coach will still be available when I am on maintenance so that will be helpful. She said it is pretty much up to me how often I come. Some on maintenance continue to come weekly, some come monthly, some just occasionally.
I have also started lurking in the maintainer's thread, but I'm finding it a bit discouraging. It seems like most of the posters are struggling to find their way. Maybe the ones who are successful don't find it necessary to post as often.
I will also consider TOPS. I know I have seen notices in our local paper from time to time, so there may be a group I can tap into. Thanks again!
Thanks Ishbel. Great suggestions. I know my coach will still be available when I am on maintenance so that will be helpful. She said it is pretty much up to me how often I come. Some on maintenance continue to come weekly, some come monthly, some just occasionally.
I have also started lurking in the maintainer's thread, but I'm finding it a bit discouraging. It seems like most of the posters are struggling to find their way. Maybe the ones who are successful don't find it necessary to post as often.
I will also consider TOPS. I know I have seen notices in our local paper from time to time, so there may be a group I can tap into. Thanks again!
Try not to worry to much about the struggle that others are having, Phase 4 isn't like Phase 1...you have to find your own way (it's not so cut and dry). What you eat maybe I can't eat...it's a bit of a 'play/rewind/play' as you find your way. It's also VERY hard to get used to the scale NOT going down. So there is a mental struggle and a frustration that comes out in the posts (especially when Phase 1 was so 'strict' and full of rules...you feel slightly like you've been let go on the world). Ie, I can't have pasta but I can have granola...others can't have granola but they find white potatoes ok. Me, not so much....this is all a learning opportunity. Never think that Phase 4 that you're 'done'.
I like to say that "weight loss is the battle, maintenance is the war". But I've also heard "weight loss is the battle and maintenance is still a battle, just in a different field".
There are many parallels, and yet there are many differences - though I think it's dangerous to think that either is better, worse, or easier to deal with than the other. You generally aren't going to end up in jail or accidentally killing someone else over your eating. And on the other, it's less socially acceptable to confront someone about their eating than their drinking (though most people find it difficult to do either).
Whenever someone draws parallels to something else, the analogy is always imperfect. No one thing, is exactly like another thing.
And I do believe that most food addictions aren't really food addictions, they're high glycemic carb addiction. So when people say you can't abstain from your addictive substance when food is involved - I think they're wrong. You CAN abstain from addictive foods - most people just don't want to.
And it is true that high gylcemic carbs are everywhere, and pushed by everyone (even dear ol' grannies), and it starts from the time we're old enough to eat solid foods (and sometimes even before). "Have a cookie, you'll feel better....."
And we do, because quickly digesting carbs affect neurotransmitters (just like antidepressants, though we normally wouldn't feed those to babies).
I struggle with "carb addiction" myself, and I do often "relapse" because sugar is so extremely "pushed." That doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't take responsibility for myself, or develop my own definition of abstinence and stick with it.
The consequences of "mild addiction" are much lower for food, so the stakes aren't high enough for everyone to decide they must have a zero-tolerance abstinence rule. However, when the stakes ARE higher (such as with very severe morbid obesity with other co-morbid health conditions) then sometimes absolute zero-tolerance abstinence may be the solution.
I don't abstain completely, but the more I lose, and the more I learn, the more I restrict. I may eventually get to the zero-tolerance policy for carbs of a certain glycemic index/load and above. I don't know yet.
The "learning curve" for food addiction is much longer, because we don't usually consider total abstinence a solution... but I think it should be at least considered (again you don't really have to abstain from all food, because most people have carb and/or fat addictions - not all-food addictions. Most aren't going to be experiencing problems because they ate too much fish and green beans).
I personally think of it like alcoholism. But it's different for everyone. It is just how I look at my situation. I know there are some things I just need to avoid like fast food. It's bad for me anyway. My dad was an alcoholic and sober the last 16 years of his life, h could not stop smoking, that's what eventually killed him.
I got really apprehensive going to maintenance too but it is as Ishbel said a situation of finding what works for you as an individual. You have to add things back slowly and see how it works for you. For instance I can't handle most grains except oats so that is the pitts. But I can handle quite a few fruits and also don't have a big problem with sugar so it means I can have some chocolate which makes up for a lot of things.
It can overwhelming to read the maintenance thread because additions work differently for different people.
TOPS may be a great option for you in maintaining. But I would start a bit before reaching goal so that the group doesn't relate to you as a normal weight person who thinks you have a weight problem.
The word "simply" is what I am responding to...there is nothing simple about alcoholism, there just is not. I feel I can say this after having numerous family members and loved ones who have dealt with and continue to deal with their addiction to alcohol.
Any kind of addiction whether it be food, alcohol, drugs, nicotine, etc...is a serious issue.
As a memeber of OA, I have found great help in many of the AA materials, especially the Big Book.
I define "abstinence" as being 100% on IP.
Our OA group folded here in town and the nearest is 90 miles away, but I still abide by the 12 steps and hold onto the 12 promises.
As far as the goal is to simply stop drinking as a statement of the basis of AA, you couldn't be further off. The goal is to stop drinking so that you can find a way to work through the pain and mess you've made of your life without a crutch. It is not simple, and is exactly the same goal I have in my life -- to stop relying on food to be my only companion and solace and to face life head on.
Simple? I think not.
Last edited by GrandmaKiss; 06-17-2012 at 11:18 PM.
I see some correlations i guess, but personally not so much. I drink to get drunk, plain and simple. Sometimes a lil tipsy other times smashed. I do this with intent, but can easily go weeks even months without a drink, doesnt bother me. However, i have never eaten with the goal of becoming fat, even though i knew that was a possibility. You still need food as a daily requirement for survival. What i was eating or even the quantities i ate added to my weight gain, but i didnt overeat daily or with intent...
For me, harder to compare eating to alcoholism, but i do understand addiction as i have been chewing tobacco since 14 so goal #2 is to find IP for tobacco...
I think you might be making too much about my use of the word "simply" or perhaps I need to clarify. By "simply" I meant that there is only one ingredient to avoid--alcohol. I'm very cognizant of the fact that alcoholics have intense struggles because I have traveled this journey with my friend for many years.
With overeating it is complicated in this way--there is so much information out there about various diets that I avoided even trying anything for a long time because I was clueless about what I needed to avoid. I'm very grateful that I discovered IP. It's the first and only program in many many years that has worked for me. I hope and pray that I will reach my goal and hold onto it. Thank you all for your support and suggestions!
I definitely consider that I had a problem with alcohol in my earlier years. Wine was my drink of choice. As I got heavier back then and went on one of my many diets, it was often initially harder for me to give up the wine than it was the food.
I've recently been reading and learning how to deal better with emotional eating. As I read this material, I've become very conscious that the things that now trigger me into emotional eating, used to create the desire/impulse in me to have a glass of wine. Happy or sad, my impulse was to have a glass of wine.... to celebrate... console myself over some slight or disappointment... chase away loneliness or boredom ... cope with anxiety... whatever my mood 'of the moment' a glass of wine always seemed like a good idea. I think since I stopped drinking so much, I've turned to food to fulfill that same requirement. So I very definitely see a lot of similiarities.
Agreed. Overeating is even harder to overcome than Alcoholism because you can't just STOP eating, it's about finding the right balance, and that's really difficult.
Comparing Alcoholism with Overeating
