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Old 12-09-2005, 09:04 AM   #16  
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I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I wanted to answer everyone’s questions...and I’m a nerdling.

HappyDaisy, my professor doesn’t like to “get into” endorsing certain foods because (as scary as this is) in MOST foods, the ingredients fluctuate ALL the time. Meaning, you could buy a can of Joe’s Chicken Dinner for your dog today and the ingredients that are in the can NOW may be totally different from what are in the exact same can next Thursday. Most dog food companies base their formulations on what ingredients are cheapest on the open market at the time that batch of food is being made. If corn is really cheap next week, their food will have lots of corn. If soy is cheap the following week, they put soy in instead of corn....and this is 100% legal. So the Joe’s Chicken Dinner your dog is eating today could be absolutely NOTHING like the Joe’s Chicken Dinner she eats three weeks from now -- even though the packaging is identical. The only thing that will change is the ingredient list, and people very rarely read the ingredients after buying it the first time.

Another very scary thing is that a dog (or cat) food company can fill the store shelves with 19 different “flavors” of their food, but -- legally -- these can ALL actually be the exact same food . It’s just a marketing scam: the more “flavors” they offer, the more shelf-space they are given in the store -- and that means more sales.

So my professor’s advice is “read labels.” Cut them off and compare them to the new cans from time to time, just to be sure you’re still feeding your dog or cat what you THINK you’re feeding your dog or cat.

And just as an aside: the dogs who have the biggest problem with all this changing-around-of-ingredients-nonsense are those with food allergies. You may think you’ve found the perfect food for your wheat-allergic dog because you read the label when you first bought it, and there was no wheat. But if you don’t keep checking the labels, you may end up feeding wheat to your dog ANYWAY because the formula changed somewhere along the way (and LOL, “no one” told you). By the way -- and I think most people know this -- food allergies in dogs USUALLY appear as skin, coat, and ear issues, and not as vomiting the way it does humans.

The good news is that some companies DON’T change their formulations based on the price of ingredients (and actually state so). These companies are the ones that produce specific diets for dogs based on their nutritional needs. Science Diet and Iams were the first companies to come up with specific, need-based formulas and the promise that their ingredients will never change due to market factors.

Suzanne, we never talked about specific ratios, just that senior dogs need lower amounts of protein -- but higher QUALITY protein -- fewer fats, and fewer carbs than younger dogs. Liver -- raw or cooked -- is one of the best foods you can give an older reluctant eater. The protein content is high, but most importantly for an older dog, it is of excellent quality and (so I’ve been told) VERY tasty.

Carla, we were supposed to talk about cat food in class today, but we’ve been nailed by a big snow storm and school is cancelled. But I do know the following about picking a quality cat food:

1. Canned cat food should have at least 1 calcium source listed. Calcium carbonate is best. If there isn’t any calcium carbonate, there MUST be an animal protein source that includes ground up bones/cartilage. Ground fish meal is the best source of calcium for a cat.

2. If you have a neutered male cat, look for a statement such as “low magnesium” to ensure that he maintains a healthy urinary tract. This is important even if your cat has never had a urinary tract blockage before, because crystals can develop VERY quickly in a neutered male cat (especially older cats and those who are overweight) and have the potential to kill the cat within 24 hours.

3. Generally speaking, stay away from the “Gourmet” cat foods. Most “gourmet” formulas contain Textured Vegetable Protein (TVP) which is extruded soy flour. VERY high in protein. But it’s plant protein, not animal protein. Companies will add colorings and flavorings to TVP so that it actually looks (and smells) just like meat. But it’s not meat. TVP has been proven to be “addicting” and cats who eat it regularly will often refuse to eat any other food, which means they begin to depend on protein as an energy source (as there are very few carbs and fats in a TVP-based food) and that dependence will almost certainly lead to kidney disease later on -- which is a MAJOR cause of death in domestic cats.

4. If your cat is 14 years old (or older) switch him or her to senior food. My professor insists that of all the special diets produced for all domestic animals, senior food for cats is the single most important one. The second leading cause of non-accidental death in domestic dogs and cats is renal (kidney) failure. And basically, no one knows why. But many vets and animal nutrition experts believe it is due to an overload of low-quality protein throughout the animal’s life. The “crude protein” percentage on a can/bag of pet food is (a) just an estimate -- the real level is almost always lower, and (b) tells you absolutely nothing about the quality or digestibility/accessibility of that protein. Feather meal, blood meal, animal “renderings” (rotted carcasses), and animal “waste” (feces/urine ) are all VERY high in protein. And ALL are “acceptable” -- and LEGAL -- ingredients in pet foods. The problem is that very few animals can eat feathers, feces, or blood and actually ACCESS the protein. But, adding ingredients like those (a) is cheap, and (b) boosts the crude protein level of the food, thus making the food “seem” healthier than a food with a lower CP level.

But back to kidneys....as animals (all animals) age, their renal function decreases, so it is very important that the animal gets LESS protein. But the protein the animal DOES get must be of a higher quality. And that’s what senior formulas are specifically designed to provide.

And Carla, I feel your pain about what to feed a crowd of cats!! I have 3 cats: a VERY active 1-year-old, a marginally active 10-year-old, and a morbidly obese 14-year-old eating machine who growls at me when he’s hungry. And they're all on senior food . The 1-year-old gets extra protein and calories because I secretly feed him little chunks of canned kitten food when the other cats aren’t around. Not the best strategy, but’s the best idea I could come up with! As far as the weight-control foods go, I think I agree with the idea that they’re fattening anyway (although I have no scientific basis and/or direct knowledge that this is true). Before I got my kitten, both of my cats (18 lbs and 22 lbs, respectively) were on “weight-control” food for about 6 years. And guess what? They’re both overweight! So the carb thing sounds right on target to me. That’s one of the other good things about senior food -- fewer carbs and fats = fewer calories.

Last edited by LovesBassets; 12-09-2005 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:56 AM   #17  
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Thanks for the info, Bassets. As a grammar nerd, I can empathize with the urge to share the knowledge, but at least in your case the info is useful!

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Old 12-09-2005, 10:29 AM   #18  
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Quote:
The good news is that some companies DON’T change their formulations based on the price of ingredients (and actually state so). These companies are the ones that produce specific diets for dogs based on their nutritional needs. Science Diet and Iams were the first companies to come up with specific, need-based formulas and the promise that their ingredients will never change due to market factors.
Whew! Thanks for all the information LovesBassets! I am feeling better knowing that Iams doesn't change their ingredients around. We feed our 5 year old dog Iams lamb and rice; the puppy still gets Iams puppy; and the cat gets Iams weight and hairball control.

See my adorable buggies in the snow, below! We took this earlier this week.
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Old 12-09-2005, 10:38 AM   #19  
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SUZANNE~ We give our golden retreivers a product called Honest Kitchen...it is a dehydrated food...we give them a scoop on top of their other kibble...seems to be very good for them...it might be something your dog could use since she doesn't have teeth, it is soft when mixed...has healthy ingredients...different types for puppies, older dogs etc. It gets pretty good ratings...we have ours shipped to us...you can check them out at their website which is www.thehonestkitchen.com

Last edited by EZMONEY; 12-12-2005 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 12-09-2005, 10:50 AM   #20  
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WOW talk about a lot of information. You guys are great!! It's good to know that we are feeding our younger dogs the right food. However, little scary about the older dog we just put on soft food. Going to have to check it out a little closer. Thanks for all of the information!!
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Old 12-11-2005, 11:30 PM   #21  
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If I may suggest a pet food company... no connection to them besides thinking they rock for being all natural (no by-products, artificial ingredients, colors, preservatives, excess sugars/salt):

www.petguard.com

I'm finding the dry cat food to my kitten and she is as shiny as a mink and as energetic as the Tasmanian Devil Of course part of that is due to the normal kitten state, but I don't want to feed her byproduct junk. I got too sensitived to this as a vegetarian for 5 years, heh!

Here is a blurb off their website regarding their canned dog food:

"Canned Dog Food: Meals for puppies, adults, seniors and less active pets. Ten flavorful dinners. Dinners are prepared with fresh-milled grains, vegetables, meat or chicken. All dinners are free of by-products, artificial flavors, colors, preservatives, sweeteners or sugars."

Even the beef used is Coleman, with no hormones or antibiotics. Plus they have a line of USDA Organic foods for cats and dogs...

I gotta say - corn syrup in dog food?! UGH.

Last edited by BerkshireGrl; 12-11-2005 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 12-11-2005, 11:46 PM   #22  
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Hi there. I just came across this subject, and I think I can offer some info. I work at a pet store, in the dog and cat depatment, and I have 5 dogs of my own. First thing I learned was most grocery stores do not offer a premium food. And some of the foods offered have been bought out by another company and the recipes change, but the name doesn't. When a customer is looking for a food {cat or dog} I always ask what kind of dog, what age, and do they have any problems, such as throwing up, gaining weight,,loosing hair, itching..etc. Dogs, and cats do have diferent digestive systems than humans, and once you have found the right food, you should Never change it without mixing with the old brand for at least a week. If you skip around on brands, you will have problems, such as digestive issues. Yucky poop.etc.
Soft food is never recomended, unless they are without teeth. Hard food keeps their teeth clean, and healthy. Wheat, corn, buy products, are all hard on their systems. Sometimes you can get away with wheat, or corn, but never buy products. If you see that on the label, put it back, and keep looking.
I use Nutro, it's only sold in pet stores. But it does contain wheat. Some science Diet products contain buy products. Natural Balance is allergy free and is one of the best pet foods you can get, without making it yourself.
My dogs are all rescue animals, and weigh from 9lb to 75lb, and I found a food that fits them all. It was trial and errer, until I found this food. I hope I was helpful. I adore animals, and run a small dog rescue form my home.
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:49 PM   #23  
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SUZANNE~I had the wrong website in my post above...I corrected it! I forgot the word "the"...so sorry...the other one was for kitchen cabinets....
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:13 PM   #24  
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Wow! Thanks for that great info!
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Old 12-17-2005, 09:13 AM   #25  
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Ny Levi was having an allergic reaction to Purina dog food. Worked with a local pet store owner who is wonderful and very knowledgeable. The Iams lamb & rice is the only thing that works for him.
(just checked--there is beet pulp but it says the sugar has been removed--maybe for coloring???)
He is a very weird dog and actually likes raw veggies--maybe because I am eating them, but he doesn't like them cooked.
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Old 12-21-2005, 05:26 PM   #26  
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[QUOTE=livingpaperdoll]Soft food is never recomended, unless they are without teeth. Hard food keeps their teeth clean, and healthy. QUOTE]

I know this started out as a dog-only thread, but I LOVED the nutrition info Kate gave for cats (my 4 are all seniors now....8-19...and I've lost a cat to CRF (chronic renal failure) so I'm familiar with some of the info about proteins). ANYWAY....Kate, I'm wondering what you may have learned about the soft vs. crunchy food debate. Some of the vets in my area are now recommending soft food diets only for cats. Apparently some of the most recent research out of vet schools is contradicting the received wisdom about feeding canned vs. dry food.

Any thoughts? Dogs or cats?
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Old 12-21-2005, 07:09 PM   #27  
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ANyone have some good healthy doggie biscuit recipes....
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:49 AM   #28  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthxxx
I feed The BARF Diet - Biolofically Approved Raw Foods. I'm lucky to have a good source of organic meats, bones and veggies. I mix it up and freeze it in single day packages, balancing the proportion of protein and veggies depending on whether the Girls are supposed to be losing weight or are preggers. So far it's working well and they are very healthy dogs - except on days like today when they raided my baking supplies and ate the chocolate!
They are OK nowe - I always have syrup of ipecac on hand!
My mother used to use this for her dog. She knew someone that sold premade packages of the stuff.
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:30 PM   #29  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NowOrNever!
Kate, I'm wondering what you may have learned about the soft vs. crunchy food debate. Some of the vets in my area are now recommending soft food diets only for cats. Apparently some of the most recent research out of vet schools is contradicting the received wisdom about feeding canned vs. dry food.

Any thoughts? Dogs or cats?
The traditional argument for dry food is (obviously) the dental health aspect, but that's not as "strong" an argument as it used to be. Another benefit of dry food is that it (generally) takes the animal longer to eat and that, plus the fact that it's crunchy, is a kind of environmental enrichment for the animal. More "fun" to eat.

However, there are a few drawbacks to dry food. First (and I may have mentioned this already) dry foods are much more limited in the ingredients that can be used -- especially animal protein sources. It's just too darn hard to preserve a lot of animal protein in dry form. Canned food often has a higher quality protein, too. The major exception to this being the TVP, which should be avoided at all costs, so ALWAYS check the label on canned cat food, especially the "gourmet" types that come in those little mini foil trays -- they may be nothing but TVP, which will cause big problems later on (as I posted earlier. I think/hope). Second, dry food is harder to digest than canned food. That's why many dogs an cats who are older or who have digestive issues should perhaps be switched to canned. Canned food also tastes better, and animals (like humans) tend to begin to lose their sense of taste as they age, so again, it may be a better choice for an older animal.

I hope that answered your question -- I'm running out the door right now, so let me know if there's something I missed.
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Old 12-23-2005, 12:35 AM   #30  
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Hey Kate--I think you covered it for me Of my 3 cats--1 is a "crunchie boy"--just doesn't like the canned. The others are mixed (even the 19 yo). I do feed Science Diet so no worries about TVP. My cats are lovely and shiny (probably the 19 yo most! She's an abby, definitely showing her age, but still with an incredibly healthy coat--she's often mistaken by other visitors at the vet as a KITTEN LOL). Oh yeah...and once, some children thought she was a kangaroo (how weird) when I had her on the front lawn.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your knowledge! I hope you're studying to be a vet??
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