My sister is 'childfree' and quite happy to stay that way, and she just tells me flat out it's not cool with her. Worked for us!

I just wanted to thank everyone again for their kind advice. My husband and I are still working things out, but we're on the same page so that's been a big help.

We've seen my SIL and niece a few times since I posted this thread, but mainly with other family so there hasn't been much time to have private chats. Tonight she mentioned again that she needs to find someone to help watch my niece and prefers family so I took the opportunity, as you all suggested. I just told her that we aren't up to babysit, but we'd love to see them regularly and offered to let her know if I came across any summer camp opportunities. The response seemed non-committal so I just left it at that for now.

My niece asked SIL a bit later if my husband could come pick her up from school and watch her until SIL got home from work. My SIL told her it was up to my husband and looked at him for an answer. He had a deer-in-the-headlights look on his face so I just jumped in and reiterated, "Sorry sweetie, Uncle LovesToTravel can't come pick you up, but would you like to come visit us again with your mom next weekend if you guys aren't busy?" (And that wasn't a lie- he's at work when school lets out.)

So I'm not sure if this topic is officially closed yet, but I feel like I've at least put my cards on the table. I think at this point it's just a matter of being consistent with our responses and continuing to offer support in other ways. Thanks again to everyone who took time out of their day to offer me your thoughtful advice.

Been in similar situation.

There are a lot of things going on and if you are not equipped, educational, emotional, legal familiar, to deal with it. Don't.

That does not make you a bad person, but sometimes, as much as we want to help, we're not in a place, that our help is in the best interest.

Well done you!! Being frank is all you can do. But what a manipulative little schemer she is, making her daughter ask such a loaded question! Seriously though, kids don't think of these things themselves, it was planted for sure. You're right, it's best to keep some boundaries here.

Another side of that is that it may or may not be planted - I often make my kids ask for something directly if they've been asking me about it, instead. They seem to weight the response of other adults differently than 'hearsay' through mommy, and so instead of answering for someone I'll often send them directly to the source. It's effective communication, not manipulation, the way we use it. Part of a relationship with someone is an exchange, and that can't really be done through a third party. It teaches my children to respect the boundaries of others and to make petitions directly instead of always requiring mommy or daddy to get it done. Useful life skill there.

Thanks for all of your input.

To be fair, my SIL often tells my niece to ask an adult directly, even if SIL already knows the answer. And my niece frequently calls my husband to ask if he can come over to play with her or whatever. (My husband is perpetually bemused by how much of a magnet he is for little kids. I tell him it's because he's fun and goofy with them- what 5 y/o doesn't like piggy back rides?) But I had never really thought of it as a way to foster good communication, so thank you for that insight Arctic Mama!

I'm still not sure that my SIL is going to completely let the subject drop (but I'd be happily surprised if she did!) just looking at how requests for babysitting have been handled with other people. I've made up my mind though that if she continues to ask, I'm not going to let it stress me out. She's in a tough spot and I can't fault her for trying. We're not up for trying and there's nothing wrong with being honest about that either. No harm, no foul.

We had a nice chat last night and it's been good to get to know her a little better. I've been with my husband for almost 13 years now and I've always felt bad that she and I have been so distant due to the circumstances.

I don't disagree with this. But if I were in a similar situation and I already knew what the answer would be I would intercept. If I knew someone would break my kids heart I would steer them away from that.

I think it is a fine line - we've never had it come up where someone else has had to say something that would devastate our kids.

I can't actually think of anything short of death or divorce that would, though?

As a caveat, we practice lots of patience and delayed gratification around here as a matter of course. If the kids get so worked up they sin in their response over something we deal with that.

We're definitely not trying to boobytrap inlaws or friends, that's for sure

There's lots of things that I can think of that disappoint kids short of death or divorce lol. If they wanted to go to their uncle's house and I know he would say no I would NOT put them up to asking him. I would tell them something like he'd come another time, not this time and then change the subject. In this particular case of the OP, it sounded to me like she was sticking her daughter into a conversation that was best left to adults. I'm not one for censoring kids, but I also don't want to put others in a strange predicament by having a child ask them for something they are not willing/able to provide. For example, I would not allow my child to ask anyone for a gift.

Well disappointment and devastation are different terms, are they not? Disappointment is a part of life and one I let my kids experience fully and regularly, especially when their expectations are inappropriate given what we have already said about a circumstance.

For example, if grandpa is out of town and they want to go ski with him, we explain they cannot because he isn't here, but that it might be nice to write him a note telling him how much they enjoy skiing with him and wish to do it again soon. That doesn't mean they aren't disappointed in reality, but they can still respond and interact appropriately even with that. My three year old is the one who has the least experience with this and reacts the worst, because of his age. But by five or six years old he will have a better understanding of the time and needs of others, too.

I would definitely let my children petition someone for an item if I wasn't sure the answer was no. But once an answer is given, how they deal with it is the important part. That's where the character training comes in, where we require they take the answer graciously and as a close on the topic. I sincerely hope the OP's niece is doing the same. And honestly I've been surprised more than once at what friends and family have consented to or desired with the kiddos - overnight camping out to give us a break, baking giant gingerbread people, flying the two oldest down to a different town for a parade and day trip, etc. I'd have said no to all of these in the given circumstances, on behalf of the other person, and I'd have been wrong! Lesson learned on that one.

Disappointment doesn't bother me in the least, but devastation is another matter. Fortunately a healthy child who isn't being manipulated should not have normal life events crossing over into the category of life-alteringly devastating. A bit of pouting or whining? Suck it up, kiddo, the world doesn't revolve around your desires and we don't get everything we want. It doesn't mean your parents, extended family, or friends don't love you - it just means they're not your slaves!

I think we may just be talking past one another at this point - disagreement of terms.

Yea i don't think we're talking about the same thing at all actually. I don't go out of my way to not disappoint my kid. He feels it if I say no more tv or no we can't go out today. That's part of life. I guess when I want my kid to interact with others I feel strongly that the other person shouldn't be put on the spot and be asked something that is not possible. Parenting is very individual, everyone has their own priorities.

I am so proud and impressed by the way you handled those situations! It really sounds like you handled things great.

My heart goes out to the OP of this thread. There are people judging her (and her husband, too, basically) because they are not comfortable watching a young and troubled child?

First off, there is a HUGE difference between a child with Special Needs versus a behavioral problem that was caused by BOTH parents at home! I don't just blame the abusive husband in this case for the child's behavior- I blame the mother for staying with such a jerk, causing these issues in their daughter. Now, all of the sudden, family is supposed to just drop what their doing and volunteer their time, energy, and money to help this woman out right now, after her daughter has pulled some worrisome behaviors right in front of other people, even causing her grandmother to stop babysitting her because her behavior was too much?

There are all sorts of levels to Special Needs children, some do have behavioral issues, but usually when that happens, family and friends know that if they are taking care of that child, that the parents and school and law enforcement would understand that this child does have behavioral issues and know that people who are kind enough to help them out are good hearted and wouldn't hurt the child.

In this case, this child bluntly accused her own uncle of hitting her in the face, when he did no such thing- can you imagine what her teacher or the police would think, hearing this from a child who sounds convincing? He would be arrested for child abuse, and from there, God knows how much this man's reputation would take a hit afterwards. I've seen people who were innocent accused of some not so nice things- some weren't even in the state when stuff allegedly happened, and for the rest of their lives, the accusation follows them. Yet, people think that this couple should just happily help out, when a situation that they did not cause has now presented an issue for the sister because she's decided to be a good Mom now and get her therapy and finally leave the abusive jerk? They're supposed to risk their reputation and good name to help support a jerk and his weak wife's child who could at any time, cause their world to turn upside down over one accusation? All it takes is ONE bad accusation to ruin someone for life!

Bringing in "special needs" children and your experience as a mother was totally unfair- this isn't even the same situation! I am sure the Op would gladly help out if her and her husband could, to give the Mom an occasional break- most special needs children don't accuse aunts and uncles of hitting them right in front of others. One of my close friends has an autistic child- I was one of the very few he would stay with, he wouldn't even go with family for some reason, and they were a very loving and caring family. I took him in my home with my kids and others- I always had a house full of kids, and when he would have a melt down, I was able to soothe him and he would calm down within minutes. I had no issues what so ever taking him in, he is just adorable- he's now 20 years old and plays the drums for me when I come over- he sounds very professional, too!

I've had many other Special Needs kids in my home over the years- I was the ONLY Girl Scout troop leader in town that took in Special Needs kids, and I loved every one of them. Most had learning disabilities, but there was a couple that had some physical issues- not a problem for me, I figured out a way for them to still earn their badges and have fun with the other girls. I had girls with emotional problems as well- but never once, did they ever make me worry about them lying about myself or my co-leaders abusing them. If they had, I would have refused them- sorry! I can deal with behavioral issues such as temper tantrums, running off, screaming, yelling, crying- but accusing others of doing some kind of harm to them when it didn't happen? NO WAY! To me, that is a learned behavior from some where- whether they learned to do it at home by example, or as a way to get their way, it is a learned issue, and only the parents, with proper counseling, can help them stop this behavior. That should not be the problem of well meaning and caring adults who are trying to help!

Please don't confuse this woman and her husband's concern over a lying child that could be very devastating in their future to a special needs child, who with proper help and training, can be watched with no or some issues, but is do able. I don't blame the OP for standing back and saying no- she is not comfortable with this, and neither is her husband, who is related by blood to this child. They are willing to have them over and spend time with them, but again, their smart in doing so in front of her mother and other adults, just in case this child decides to lie about something serious.

Also, without knowing the financial state of the OP and her husband, I am appalled at how several people are suggesting that they pay for day care or summer camp! In this economy, a lot of people are living pay check to pay check themselves, including people without kids! Why make this woman and her husband feel any worse about this situation, and then expect them to PAY to help this child, too? Not knowing their situation or monthly expenses, I think that's also unfair to expect them to invest money they might need themselves to live on or don't have to give.

I love kids, and would help out all of them if I could. I have been in the company of a child like this in the past- usually, a successful visit happens, but I always made sure one of the parents were there along with a family member or friend of mine was there, too, just in case. I am not heartless, but on the couple of occasions where I have helped the parents out with such a child- I NEVER did it alone, and only on an emergency basis or perhaps a wedding or such. I am a mother myself to three great kids, two with learning disabilities, and MY KIDS needed me home with them, and not in a jail cell, trying to defend myself from trying to be helpful while a troubled child accused me of something heinous.

I didn't mean to make this a long novel here, but I just feel so bad for the OP. She was made to feel like **** by a couple of people who didn't care enough to understand where she was coming from. Just because she is afraid to watch a troubled child, doesn't make her a bad person or a mean, selfish, or unhelpful. It just makes her cautious- so what?

Quiet Ballerina: Thanks! We're still working on things, but I'm feeling a lot better now that we've cleared the air.

Steelslady: It's cool, I have a very firm policy of not taking things personally with strangers on the internet. But thanks for thinking of me, that was kind. I try not to judge my SIL for her circumstances because I've never been in her shoes. Who's to say I would have done any better? It was a difficult, complicated situation and the whole family is trying to be as supportive as we can.

Kudos for all of the time you volunteered with the girl scouts! I have many happy memories of earning badges and I bet your little scouts do as well, sounds like you were very welcoming and accepting of all of them.

I know I'm late to the game here, but I found reading this thread very interesting, particularly in light of the fact that when my husband and I were young and childless, we found ourselves in a similar situation.

In our case it was my oldest brother's wife who was always asking me to babysit my young nieces and nephews. Fortunately there were none of the complications you're describing, and I loved all of them. But my husband and I didn't have children for seven years, and there was a reason for that - we LIKED it that way!

Unfortunately the requests became more frequent and more intrusive, so I suddenly found myself in an awkward position of having to "back off" and it did create hard feelings. For this reason I think you are wise to set the proper tone from the outset.

The reason I bolded a.) in the quote above is because in my mind, that's reason enough. You don't even have to get to b.)

You don't owe your SIL anything. There is absolutely no reason to feel guilty OR obligated.

See how easy these things get when you get to be OLD, like me???