Confusion...men (long)
 

K so you all might remember my "I have a date tonight!" thread and also one of my more recent threads concerning said date-fellow and a mushroom & Swiss burger. Well... somethings have changed on that ballgame and I fear I may have messed things up/have had some bad judgement. Before I get into the current situation, here is the back story:

We had started talking about a week or two before I graduated at the end of April; I messaged him on a dating site and we started talking and REALLY connected. We had decided we were going to get together then, but then he told me he had started another relationship so he couldn't date me anymore, but we could still talk as friends. I took him up on that cause he was/is a really nice guy, but I honestly didn't talk to him for about 2 weeks cause I just kinda wrote him off and moved on -- we had only been talking for like a week anyway and I was going through some rough times so I just didn't think about it.

Well, that 2 weeks rolled around and I randomly decided to text him (this was about a week after I graduated, first week of May). We started talking about stuff and mid-conversation he randomly told me he was single again. This was on a Wednesday, and long story short, we kept talking for the next few days and we went out for our first date on that Saturday (the 5th). We went to see The Hunger Games, and when we were in the theatre, we instantly went into cuddle mode and, well, this is where it starts: he starts rubbing on me, and it feels good so I allow him to continue. I also notice the more he rubs me, the more daring he gets with where he puts his hands. I continue to let him because at this point I have become putty because his hands feel so nice and well... damn it just felt good! We also had our first kiss at this point. After this, we head over to a bubble tea cafe where we sit and talk for a while and after that we decided to go into the city and walk around down town. We get there, and as soon as we start to walk on the street, a downpour started so we went back the car and he suggested we go back to his place to dry off. I wasn't ready to leave him yet, so I agreed and off we went. To make this story end here: we ended up fooling around a bit, but it wasn't anything too serious.

We keep talking, just as frequently, for the next week and our next date we decided was going to be at his place again and we were going to have a Netflix night. Well... to make this story short, there wasn't much "Netflixing" going on. I entered the room and he planted me with a really, really intense kiss and needless to say although I totally did not intend on it...we ended up having sex. That was pretty intense, too, lol. Earlier this same day, though, due to some issues with the management at his apt complex, he found out he had to move ASAP. And at this point, the only other place he could go until he found another place was back at his mom's.

This is where things start to get a bit fuzzy. After this night, we continue to talk, but I'm noticing the conversations are being started by me and not him, and they're becoming a bit less frequent. I knew he was busy with moving out, so I didn't think too much of it. We had date number 3 this past Tuesday, which included dinner and well... more sex. Which leads us to my current situation:

I haven't been hearing from him all that much. I keep my texting/conversations to a minimum as not to bug him -- maybe once a night/every other night, but at this moment I haven't talked to him since Monday night. He explained that he was still kinda busy with moving out and stuff, but I can't help but to think his interest in me has changed somewhat. I really did NOT intend on having sex with him so fast; we just connected really, really well, and the sexual part was pretty intense...and when we've been together in person, when we weren't fooling around, there was what I thought was a real connection going on. He's super easy to talk to and I feel super comfortable around him, which he has expressed he feels the same about me. He always has complimented me and seems to have made it pretty clear that he does, genuinely like me... but then if that's the case, why is he so silent?

I can't really remember if our conversations have always been initiated by me but I think it's been a bit of both, and he never has seemed to be bothered by me when I *do* talk to him, so I really don't know what his deal is. Should I just leave him alone and let him throw the ball, or what? Do you think I messed things up by having sex with him so fast? I really didn't mean to do that and I really kind of regret it.... do you think I should talk to him about it? I don't want to make the situation worse if it's already bad. I really just don't know what to do about this one.

And sorry for the long post, I figured the best way for y'all to understand the situation was if I told you what it was, lol. Thanks for any advice y'all give!

I think talking about it with him is a good idea. Talk don't text so you can hear his voice and he yours. He might be freaked out a little too. You deserve to be treated with respect.

Congratulations on your graduation that is great.

This is always tricky. It's hard to know exactly what to do when things are stressful in your guy's life and he goes quiet - it seems to depend a lot on the guy and how he deals with tough life situations, in my experience.

He may just feel like he's in over his head right now - breaking up with someone recently, moving in with his mom, new budding relationship with you, etc. - and he's retreated into his head to try to process it. I know plenty of guys who just go silent when they are worried or stressed - I think it's hard-wired in them to be stoic and not talk about things that are bothering them. Very much unlike women.

But, there might also be something else going on. Very hard to tell from where I'm sitting. ;)

So I suppose my suggestion would be to tread carefully for both your sakes for a little while, do your best to be supportive and give him a little time, and don't take his attitude as a reflection on you or your new love interest just yet. It sounds like things are moving very quickly for both of you, so maybe take this as an opportunity to step back, keep things a little more platonic and less lusty, and see if you can get to know each other a little better. It may help you decipher his mood a bit more easily too.

If it is truly bothering you though, just see if you can find a neutral time to bring it up, as casually as you can. Ask if he can tell you how he's feeling or what's going on, and let him know you're always happy to lend an ear if he wants to talk. He's quiet and you aren't sure why - is it something to do with you, or is he worried about moving, or is it something else? Don't be accusatory. Just nudge him to be open with you, if you can. Hopefully he will see that you're concerned for him (and for yourself) and will want to set the record straight.

Good luck. :hug:

In my opinion,you had sex too soon. I realize you didn't mean too, but the fact is - it happened. Many men, especially younger men, perhaps don't realize and wont admit it, but are all about the chase. Once they know youre willing, limits will be pushed ( him rubbing on you during your first date).

I'm definitely not trying to be the negative one and I would love to be wrong, but I've seen it happen and have personally been through it.

In any case, I think you should back off and move on. When a man wants a woman, nothing will stop him from contacting her....no matter what his circumstances.

Good luck

I don't want to rain on your parade but I agree with mammasita.

Originally Posted by mammasita:
...... When a man wants a woman, nothing will stop him from contacting her....no matter what his circumstances.

Good luck

^^ Absolutely correct! ^^

I am living proof of that :)

My advice ~

Don't contact him anymore. He already knows for sure that you want him!

If he does contact you keep it simple and polite...

If he asks you for another date tell him that's possible but you need some time...

Agree to continue to talk to him....that is what you liked about him wasn't it?

If and when you decide to take another chance tell him up front before the date there will be no more sex for a very long time!!

If he goes for that, date him again.

If he tries to get you into bed...under any circumstances....

run as fast as you can.

He doesn't respect you...

and if you fall for it....

under any circumstances...

you don't respect yourself either...

and you will be sorry...very sorry :hug:

So... some men are all about the chase but are you sure he really broke up with his girlfriend?

It is hard to tell but a lot of guys just use dating websites for sex and not relationships. It is possible he is different but who knows. The second date sounds like a warning sign in that his intention was sex and he moved pretty fast on the first date.

You have to protect your heart and your health. Do you really know anything about this guy?

Things I would suggest you know before you have sex with someone:
Do you know how many sexual partners he has had?
What is his stance on condom use? (Did you guys use protection?)
Has he been tested for any STDs?
What is his longest relationship?
How long did his last relationship last?
Did he plan to be exclusive with you?
How does he feel about his mother? (a guy that has deep seated hate for his mother is something to be cautious about)

And there are other things as well but the above are things that I could think of immediately.

Yeah, I'm afraid I'm in agreement with mammasita and ezmoney...

I think since you had sex with him so soon (and I get it, I've been there) and he stopped contacting you, that's all he wanted from you.

If you hadn't had sex so soon, he still would have stopped texting, since sex was all he wanted.

Some advice I wish someone had given me when I was your age (although I probably would have ignored it): men will say anything they think you want to hear to have sex with you. And they will seem really nice, really interested in you and what you have to say, because sex is REALLY important to them, and a few little lies or being misleading is a small price for them to pay.

The longer you take to get to really know each other before you have sex, the more it will mean to both of you.

Personally, I would never contact him again, and if he texted me, I would never respond.

It's isn't easy out there, so look out for yourself.

Originally Posted by mammasita:
In my opinion,you had sex too soon. I realize you didn't mean too, but the fact is - it happened. Many men, especially younger men, perhaps don't realize and wont admit it, but are all about the chase. Once they know youre willing, limits will be pushed ( him rubbing on you during your first date).

I'm definitely not trying to be the negative one and I would love to be wrong, but I've seen it happen and have personally been through it.

In any case, I think you should back off and move on. When a man wants a woman, nothing will stop him from contacting her....no matter what his circumstances.

Good luck

Unfortunately, I have to agree with this 100%. :( I really hope that there's something else going on, but I've seen this happen to people many times.

Originally Posted by stillmeadow:
I think since you had sex with him so soon (and I get it, I've been there) and he stopped contacting you, that's all he wanted from you.

If you hadn't had sex so soon, he still would have stopped texting, since sex was all he wanted.

Agreed. I think sex is enjoyable, but I don't want a relationship. That means I "date" with the intention of hanging out, having sex, and not with the intention of getting serious.

Meh. I wish I didn't suck at this so much. It's really hard for me to say no once they start touching me like that. I really don't want him to be a creep, but all signs point to as such. Fml.

I also am going to rain on your parade.
He chased you. He got you now on to his next conquest.
But he will keep your number and you will hear from him when he needs another quick fix.
Sorry for so blunt, but I saw myself in your message and I was in the exact same situation, but I am still in it with the same guy that played that routine on me THIRTY-TWO YEARS ago!!!!
I am in counseling now to learn how to quit being used.
I am getting stronger but yes I still lapse and see him even though I know to him it is all about the sex and yes we have great talks and both have everything in common, but it will never go anywhere because he knows he doesn't have to do anything since he knows he has me and I am in a one sided relationship that is going no where.

I don't know how old you are, but you sound young (late teens, early 20's?) I'm almost 49. I have soooo BTDT. (Not bragging, not ashamed! - just a fact.)

From your post, I surmise that you want something MORE than a casual relationship. You want something more permanent, longer lasting, some sort of committy. (I'm not referring to marriage or anything.) You really really REALLY like this guy; in fact, you are in the beginning of obsessive thoughts - it's a high, much like cocaine, chocolate, or shopping. (seriously! - people get infatuated by chemically induced responses.) You connected on an intellectual level, and quite obviously on a physical level. That's where relationships begin, after all.

I personally don't abide by the 1950's era of "having sex too soon" - I believe that our hormones react for a reason, and I see nothing wrong with casual sex. As long as you realize IT'S CASUAL, and means nothing more than a good time (and by all means! - YES! - protect yourself with birth control & disease prevention!!!) And usually, that's how guys view it - A GOOD TIME. You are hoping for something more...something more meaningful, longer lasting.

That's OK. It's OK to want more. It's even OK to build a relationship on what many people term casual sex. I DID. I had sex with my husband on our 2nd date. I knew it was just casual sex; that's all I wanted... I never thought I'd end up married to the guy! :dizzy: But yeah, we fell in love. We got married 8 months later. We just celebrated our 19th anniversary last week. Is that the norm? Nope - afraid not. But YES, it does happen.

If you regret having sex so soon because you feel like "he won't respect you" enough now to get to know you better, therefore increasing the chance of a longer-lasting relationship - may I say - with all due respect - get over it. Why so blunt? Because it's happened, & you can't UN-f*** somebody. Because casual sex is very much ingrained in our society in today's time. Most people have sex by the 3rd date. The older generation (older than even my generation, LOL) will tell you to "respect yourself!" - and "don't give it up too soon" etc. I disagree with that. TO A POINT. I say if you're an adult that you can certainly make your own decisions about when to have sex. A lot of people would call a woman a whore for that attitude. I say big deal, some people just really really REALLY like sex. And there's nothing wrong with that, unless you're going against your personal beliefs (religion, morals, etc). Sex is a natural part of humanity. We literally couldn't exist without it!

Generally speaking, there is "nothing" you can really "do" about this situation. Facts are facts. You fear you've "messed up" by having sex too soon. If he doesn't contact you again, you can assume any number of things, that being one of them. But also, a considerable possibility, he's truly busy right now, with the moving & everything else going on in his life, like he told you. Or maybe he's ashamed that he has to move back in with his mom. Maybe he's hurting from his break-up with the other chick. Maybe this, maybe that, maybe a lot of things. You won't KNOW until you talk to him. DO NOT TEXT. And if possible, have a face to face conversation. Ring him up, ask him to meet you for coffee or whatever. Put a TIME LIMIT on this meeting, so that you don't have time for casual sex. Because once sex enters the picture, emotions are soon to follow, and can, quite frankly, cloud your judgment. And right now, you want clarity: "is this relationship going anywhere? Should it? Do I really want it to? Does he? Can I be satisfied with just casual sex & good conversation?"

Good luck, & I hope it turns out like you want it to! :hug:

Originally Posted by mimsyborogoves:
Meh. I wish I didn't suck at this so much. It's really hard for me to say no once they start touching me like that. I really don't want him to be a creep, but all signs point to as such. Fml.

(((mimsyborogoves)))

You know, in this case, it's kind of like the food challenges we face. We know what our triggers are, so we stay away, and we keep foods that make us lose control out of the house. Sex and overeating are both very emotional things.

In this case, you know being around a guy like this is a trigger for you to go further than you really want to, so pay attention to that, and try to not let it get that far.

He's not really a creep, he's just a regular guy...he's out to get laid whenever and with whoever he can...don't let it be with you.

Originally Posted by mimsyborogoves:
Meh. I wish I didn't suck at this so much. It's really hard for me to say no once they start touching me like that. I really don't want him to be a creep, but all signs point to as such. Fml.

Hey, don't internalize it if this guy ends up being a creeper. You don't suck because this guy acted like a jerk! If this is indeed the case, you were a target and it could have happened to anyone. Just when you meet someone next time, try to avoid situations that can end up with you being touched and having to say no (i.e. don't go back to his place before you want to). Nothing wrong with having a solely physical relationship with someone, but if you're looking for more than that, avoid the "iffy" situations until you're getting what YOU want out of the relationship.

Put yourself and your own needs first. Especially in the very beginning of the relationship.

I think right now he does view us as casual and nothing serious (at least for right now) because there was a key phrase he used not too long after our second date when I voiced to him that I wasn't comfortable with having sex with someone else (I think I told him about some guy hitting on me; I don't really remember) right after I had sex with him, and he basically told me that if it did happen it wouldn't bother him, as "we aren't attached" (Which I took as: "I'm not your bf, you're not my gf, therefore there's no "rules" here", and rightfully so -- since we haven't made anything official and we're just casually dating, I wouldn't expect him to be all possessive yet). But yes, I do want more than just casual sex -- I spent a little over 2 years in a relationship like that and I do -not- want to do it again.

And the thing is, like I said before, he isn't bothered by me in the slightest which is why I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Even though I have been doing most of the conversation-initiating, even if he doesn't respond right away, he always DOES respond, and with the exception of the past week usually the conversations are meaningful and flirty. I think he genuinely is just trying to get readjusted -- not to mention I just started a new job, so things are pretty hectic for us both at the moment.

I do think I'm gonna give it some time; give him time to get readjusted and give myself time to get settled in with my job and get used to things. The last time I talked to him was actually a phone conversation (Monday night) and I mentioned us hanging out again and he was getting ready to go to sleep so he mumbled stuff about "yeah definitely", his apartment and something else and then said "so after that"; I don't really know what he said, lol. I haven't even made an attempt to talk to him since then so I think I'm still gonna wait. And with him moving in with his mom, things are probably going to have to start getting a little more public and a little less heated if they do continue, cause we're not gonna have anywhere TO do the latter, lol. Cause I live with my parents, too, and yeah that ain't happenin'. And last time we went out, he kept talking about all the places/things he wants to take me/do with me so thats why I think there's more here... but either way it's still confusing. Men are dumb, lol.

re:
 

I tend to think that women have a tendency to over analyze everything. I think my husband may have 2 or 3 complete thoughts by 9am where I've had about 3 million.

Maybe he really is just busy moving? Give it a little time, but don't hold yourself back waiting for him.

.

Originally Posted by mimsyborogoves:
Meh. I wish I didn't suck at this so much. It's really hard for me to say no once they start touching me like that. I really don't want him to be a creep, but all signs point to as such. Fml.

Dont be so hard on yourself.

Take it as a lesson learned, be stronger next time and know that you deserve WAY better than for a man to test your limits like that on the first date.

Originally Posted by Vex:
I tend to think that women have a tendency to over analyze everything. I think my husband may have 2 or 3 complete thoughts by 9am where I've had about 3 million.

.

WOW~!!! your husband can have more than ONE complete thought by 9am? Does he happen to have a big ol' "S" on his chest and wear a red cape? :rofl: :D

I totally agree about women having that tendency to over-analyze everything. Every little word, every little facial expression, every little movement. And not just about our man, either. I constantly try to remind myself that I CANNOT KNOW WHAT IS GOING THRU SOMEONE ELSE'S MIND. Even if they SHARE their "thoughts" with me - there's always a chance they're not expressing themselves well, or leaving something out, or stretching the truth or downright lying -

and seemingly, most men just don't do that. They take what we say (or don't say!) at face value. Sometimes I think men really ARE from mars. :dizzy:

Again my recommendation is protect your heart and your health. If you aren't attached then you aren't exclusive. Are you ok with if he is having sex with other girls? Can you be ok with that?

If you aren't ok with that then you could try dating (without intimacy) to see if you guys do like eachother to be exclusive/attached/whatever.

This thread made me think of Millionaire Matchmaker......She always tells her clients "NO SEX WITHOUT MONOGOMY". Its so true. It didn't sink in until my 30's but I wish I would have figured it out sooner.

We women definitely have a tendancy to over analyze things at times, and it's absolutely possible that this guy is just busy moving and such. But I think if you haven't heard from him in a couple more days, you should think about moving on...if a guy is interested (especially in the beginning stages) I personally don't think he would go that long without contact. A day or two, maybe. But not 4, 5, 6+ days.
I don't want to be a downer, and please don't think I'm trying to be mean! It's still definitely possible that he's just busy. But be prepared for the possibility that he was only interested in sex. I speak from past experience (sigh) and also from seeing my friends go through similar situations. Hopefully this guy is different though!

I agree with the other posters that the busy thing doesn't fly. Whenever I have first started a relationship with a guy and we are both SOOO into eachother we go to stupid lengths to hang out together...things like driving to eachother on our breaks for 20 mins to hang out for 5 mins and then drive 20 minutes back!!! Things you would never do once you're out of the 'honey-moon' stage LOL. Or talk late into the night when I should really be studying...skipping clubs...going out every night.

Well you get the idea. It's like that book "He's just not that into you". I know it sucks but we just want you to move on for him so that you're more available for a guy that WILL be THAT into you too! You deserve it!

Also, I think the whole "Yeah next winter we can vacation in Hawaii together and I can show you this great restaurant.." is a thing MANY guys do when they have NOOO intention on being with a girl that long. I have no idea why they do that but I know many that do. So weird.

Originally Posted by mammasita:
This thread made me think of Millionaire Matchmaker......She always tells her clients "NO SEX WITHOUT MONOGOMY". Its so true. It didn't sink in until my 30's but I wish I would have figured it out sooner.

Ahhhh... but "monogomy" can be a week... a month... a year.... I've been monogamous all my life (sex with only one man) but several different times. ;)

Originally Posted by Beach Patrol:
Ahhhh... but "monogomy" can be a week... a month... a year.... I've been monogamous all my life (sex with only one man) but several different times. ;)

Ah, yes. This is true LOL

Originally Posted by Beach Patrol:
Ahhhh... but "monogomy" can be a week... a month... a year.... I've been monogamous all my life (sex with only one man) but several different times. ;)

:) Me too!

I also don't think this guy is a creep because he wanted to have sex with you. You wanted to have sex with him. It sucks when we don't communicate about what we want/are looking for so there are expectations that haven't been agreed on.

:hug:

Well, see, I was under the assumption that we both had a particularly good feeling about each other. Ever since we first started talking period, we've both made comments on how strangely comfortable we feel around each other and how being around each other felt really, really natural. Especially on the first and even second date (and even on the third), he has always seemed to almost be surprised at how comfortable he could be with me and how easy I was to get along with -- during the third date, he even made a point to tell me how much he appreciated me being understanding about his moving situation and it was/is like he's not used to having a girl like me around. Apparently, from he way he talks, his previous women have been total sticks in the mud, so I guess he kind of expected me to be the same way. Also, his previous women haven't been so appreciative of chivalrous behavior. I almost wonder if he's intimidated by the way this has turned out. To be honest, I am too.

I honestly thought by the way we interacted with each other that would explain both of our intentions...but I guess not. I probably do need to talk to him about it cause I hate it when guys just leave me hanging -- and really, I don't see him doing that if something really was up because he's told me he's really keen on open communication... I don't know. I think I just need to shut up and relax, lol.

Hi, I'm pretty new to these board but this thread really got my attention. A lesson I learned the hard way is don't listen so much to what a person says, look at what they do. Some guys will continually say things are alright and they really like you, continue to have sex with you, and then be otherwise completely noncommittal. He's saying a whole lot to you, but his actions aren't backing it up. A phone call takes 5 minutes. A text: 1 minute. He can stay connected if he wants.

If he's great in bed and you want to keep that going. Go for it. It seems like you want more though and this is not the dude who is going to give it to you. Be kind and honest with yourself. Go meet some other dudes. Date and have fun (most of it sexless).

I don't know but in my world netflix night means sex. Don't go anywhere there is a bed until you really are ready for sex.

I'll toss in my 2 cents.

I agree with the folks that say you slept with him too soon. Not because I have an issue with premarital sex or even casual sex, but because you were looking for MORE than casual sex. Part of the purpose of waiting is to keep the guy's interest level high by keeping the challenge there but also to make sure he's into you enough to wait a little bit.

Obviously I can only go on what you have said here, but my BS meter is going off with alarm bells on this guy. If he was really into you, he'd be seeing you no matter where he lived. It definitely sounds to me like he got what he wanted and now his interest level is lower because the challenge is gone. It also sounds like he made it clear that this is just friends when he said he wouldn't care if you had sex with someone else. When a guy says that, there is an implied "and you better not care if I have sex with someone else either."

I would cease contacting him. If he's interested, he will pursue you. If he's not interested, you won't hear from him except perhaps when he wants a booty call (which you should say no to). If this is a phase for him and his interest is there, he'll pursue you and even wait to have sex again. But my gut feeling on this guy is that's not what he's after.

Originally Posted by :
I was under the assumption that we both had a particularly good feeling about each other.

Originally Posted by :
I honestly thought by the way we interacted with each other that would explain both of our intentions...but I guess not.

You assumed. Own it.

If you want to have casual sex, or a lightweight FWB thing or something else... figure it out and lay out the ground rules. And get the buy in before you go there. (HE is at fault too for assuming and not laying HIS ground rules too!)

When I was in my late teens and 20's the rules for me were hygiene oriented. I didn't much care if partner wanted to date other people, I just wanted the heads up if it was looking lover-ly so I could make decisions about my own health then.

It was very no strings.

I was also seeing other people, but only he was lover-ly. We used BCP and condoms -- it was fun, sweet, and light. No pasts, no futures. Just all about the present. It was what I needed at the time and I have no regrets. When I was ready for something more meaningful he was first on my hit list because he played well. (And now we creep on 20 yrs together. Heh. But it wasn't STARTED as a "let's get married and have kids!" type rship. That evolved over time.)

I'm not judging on having sex. I'm judging on NOT laying out the rules before going there, and just assuming things.

What kind of way to run your adult romantic life is that? Did you have the sex talk at least for the hygiene? I hope so.

So learn from that. No more assuming. Take charge of your OWN body and your OWN life and your OWN pleasures.

Originally Posted by :
I probably do need to talk to him about it cause I hate it when guys just leave me hanging -- and really, I don't see him doing that if something really was up because he's told me he's really keen on open communication

Yup -- talk it over and get the rules in place here for what kind of rship this is.

Clear the air here -- get his temperature check on where this is at for him, where this is at for you, and if it is too big a mismatch, break it off now while you can part on decent terms.

But don't overthink this and beat yourself up or whatever. It is just SO much easier to schedule a talk and go "Yo, wassup here? Ground rules, dude!" than play "what if" games in your head.

Originally Posted by :
... I don't know. I think I just need to shut up and relax, lol.

Do relax about it. (the making yourself crazy stressy part)

But do step it up. (the part about not assuming any more and getting the rules DOWN before you hit the sack.)

This is your adult life here. Be adult.

Originally Posted by :
well, this is where it starts: he starts rubbing on me, and it feels good so I allow him to continue. I also notice the more he rubs me, the more daring he gets with where he puts his hands. I continue to let him because at this point I have become putty because his hands feel so nice and well... damn it just felt good!

Originally Posted by :
Meh. I wish I didn't suck at this so much. It's really hard for me to say no once they start touching me like that. I really don't want him to be a creep, but all signs point to as such. Fml.

Deciding NOT to say "no" is also a choice, hon. You sound like you wanted it so... Start worrying about how to say YES better! Spare yourself this back and forth biz.

It's fine to enjoy heavy petting, sex, etc -- but before surrendering to the fun, just get the temperature check for what it means to him/you before you enjoy. Play like an adult.

Don't be all teenagery weird about it. OWN your own desires, sexuality, etc. It is fine to have them.

It doesn't have to automatically mean he's a creep because he fails to lay out ground rules. You didn't either. :shrug:

He could be a creep -- that remains to be seen. But let's stick to one thing at a time. I'm getting that BOTH of you need to learn to get the temperature check more clearly from partners before diving into the pleasure.

GL to you!

:hug:
A.

I really want to talk to him about it but I don't know how/when to go about it. I feel like I could put it in a nice way that's not accusing him of anything, but I don't know when the right time to do this is. And honestly, if there really isn't anything going on, I don't want to make him think I'm needy/obsessive or whatever...

This happened with another guy, all though we didn't have sex; it was like when things looked like they had potential for exclusion, he dropped off of the face of the earth and when I called him to talk about it, he never answered and I never heard from him again. I don't see that happening with this guy because he hasn't just dropped off the face of the earth, but I don't want to make him think I'm obsessing about this. But then again, he did tell me communication was important so I don't know. I suck at thiiiiss! I'm such a coward, lol.

Well, what do you want?

If you want exclusivity, I'd tell him what you are looking for in a relationship. He can tell you if that is what he wants or not.

:hug: I feel bad for you. You were almost too eager for this to work out -- he caught onto that, and took advantage of it. Now I agree with your first poster, the vet guy who told you that you should talk to him in person -- texting and emails are no good becuz you can't see his face or hear his voice. Tone and inflection can tell you so much more about someone.

Right now, you don't know where you stand -- when you were talking, what were you talking about? You needed to talk more, and make out less. ;) Honey, something went on ... you had sex with him at least two times; now that may not mean something to some people, but I think it did for you. So that is a relationship of some kind, but not the only one you wanted.

I may be going against the grain here but ... you have two choices: wait for him to call you or you call him. I would call him on the phone and ask him to meet you in a quiet public place where you can discuss where this is going; and be blunt (to the point). If he says no or stands you up; you will get a good idea from that. I don't think 4 days is obsessing -- my DH and I saw or talked to each other daily when we dated. We got married a year later.

Originally Posted by :
... when he said he wouldn't care if you had sex with someone else. When a guy says that, there is an implied "and you better not care if I have sex with someone else either."

This bothered me a lot and needs clarification for sure. You need to just ask him out right -- are we still dating? Are we an item or not? Don't be so apologetic about this. These are normal feelings/questions. I understand how you want some closure at this point. So just do it -- call him and get it over with. Oh, and make a list of questions you want answered, so you won't forget anything ... :hug:

Simple. Call or email. Something like...

Originally Posted by :
"Hey, just wanted to check in. Because in the heat of the moment I didn't feel like we set ground rules all that clear. I had fun, and want to keep seeing you but want to be respectful and clear about being on the same page. So I'm getting the vibe we're not "attached" -- am I right? So are we keeping this casual then? Or was that a one time adventure? Is this like a longer FWB brewing here? Open relationship? Closed relationship? Exactly what is it for you and what are you looking for?"

There.

Then sort it out. But go in knowing what YOU want here. What do YOU want? You seem to either know what you want and be too timid about saying so boldly because you think it might not be "cool" to articulate or you haven't spent any time with yourself to figure it out. Which is it?

Whatever flavor you are -- from the most old-fashioned to the most daring -- you are just right for YOU. It's totally fine to be the wondeful YOU that you are. :)

What's not ok is muddling along -- stop not saying no clear.

That is like having the unspoken expectation of your partner

Originally Posted by :
"Treat me nice! Give me what I want! Without any clues or clear ground rules from me because I want you to be a mind reader so I don't have to deal with my timidity or think about what I want. Then if things go wrong, I can shoosh it all on you for not being omnipotent and looking after all my unspoken needs. "

Either say NO clear, or say YES clear. This wishy washy in between business is messing with your head. OWN IT.

If you are in a flip-floppity place in life right now, OWN IT, and don't date right now til you are more steady in yourself. Nothing wrong with that. Life happens.

He's just as faulty for not laying out his ground rules -- I'm chalking that up to you both being young than either of you being actual real scuzzbuckets.

You sound nice, but I'll be frank -- you sound really newbie too. Get yourself sorted.

Learn from this experience and start getting firmer about your desires and your wants on your calling card so you have a better chance at actually GETTING what you are looking for.

GET his calling card and ground rules. GET yours out there on the table. Take the tally and temperature check. Negotiate points if it looks like it could be a runner for a while. Part ways amicably if it just is too non-negotiable. It's just not a match up, or a close enough match up. Life is. Doesn't have to be horrible or that you failed somehow. It just didn't line up.

There IS no right one out there. There are MANY right ones -- it's finding the right one and at the right time! Sometimes the line up doesn't line up right at this time. :shrug:

Where I was at 19/20 yrs old may not be what you are today. But I knew what I wanted. And I laid it out straight up. Some guys told me I was very scary and intimidating. (Not really interested in them -- I don't like wishy washy guys. There. Weeded out.)

Other guys told me I was refreshing and intriguing and a relief -- because they were used to women who were unclear and frustrating. (This was getting me to the pool I wanted to be dating in -- straight up talkin' people!)
My calling card at the time was something like this...

Originally Posted by :

• When I was there, I wanted FWB, a sane one. I'd just broken up and I didn't want a big heavy thing. There's no past here. There's no talk of a future. This is in the moment only. (no negotiable)
  
• I was up for sweetness and light for a hopefully a year. He'd just broken up and was at the same place more or less. I could negotiate on time frame -- a year, 6 mos, 3 mos.
  
• I wanted to date other people, and he was free to do same. (if he didn't want to date others, I was. Deal, and don't pile jealousy at my door.)
  
• I also enjoyed having a lover again, but I didn't want that to get all possessive and jealousy. That's a drag. (not negotiable. I will dump you.)
  
• I wanted the sex hygiene clean. (Not negotiable. Any whiff of disrespect here and I dump you. I expect tests.)
  
• I wanted to know if things were looking lover-like from another quarter if his dating people got to that place BEFORE it went down. So I could adjust my own health hygiene issues and decide if we were closing the door on being lovers now or dealing with a multi-person arrangement or what. (Could be negotiable on multi-person but NOT negotiable on knowing before it goes down. I was here first. Do me that one small respect. TELL ME. )
  
• Everyone BYO protection. BCP and condoms. No glove? No love, dude. I don't need a baby. (not negotiable)
  
• I didn't feel this was unreasonable to want -- that my OWN health stay squeaky clean! He ought to want same! Whether it be physical, emotional, mental or spiritual health! (does he have any reasonable wants to add here?)
  
• In short, be real, don't lie, don't cheat on me and put my health at risk -- just TELL me when you want a new lover. There's no strings here. (And don't agree to no strings thing and then go make a nest of tangled strings. Solution? I dump you.)
  
• What would happen to make YOU dump ME? (Listen to his list items)

We negotiated, agreed on the ground rules, and in a year we'd check in and have a state of the union talk. If it had run its course or what on the FWB front and renegotiate for changing needs.

Actually by a year's time I was over the heavy break up blues, so was he, and since he'd played so well as FWB, he got first crack at taking it up to the next level. That began a whole OTHER chapter. A whole new contract for ground rules.

But the point is -- we negotiated and renegotiated and checked in. There was no random muddling floating along. We both owned it for what it was, and we both own our own baggage.

So just be bold and OWN your own life. Life is not a dress rehearsal. Get on with it -- LIVE and OWN that show. Whether in relationships or not in relationships -- it is still YOUR life. YOU drive. :D

You say NO clear and park your car in the parking spot you pick.

You say YES clear and drive to a destination you want to get you to.

You do NOT start the engine, put it in drive, take your hands off the steering wheel to cover your eyes and step on the gas and hope you just muddle along well enough to get to... somewhere. In one piece.

Or hope the passenger beside you can drive good enough from where they are sitting to get you where you want to go without you telling them anything. Do they even have a license? How'd they get in this car anyway?

Sort out your calling card items and date people more sensibly.

GL!

:hug:
A.

Astrophe, I like the way you approach things, and you hit the nail on the head -- I AM a newbie, at least when it comes to relationships. I'm 22 years old and have never been in a serious relationship at all whatsoever; all the guys I've dealt with have either used me or just fizzled and didn't work out. Part of it has to do with a long-term battle with self confidence/self-esteem issues that I haven't fully gotten over yet -- guys catch on quick and they run far, far away. I don't really blame them, either. Who wants to love someone that doesn't love herself? And looking back to when I was heavier, I REALLY don't blame them. I've done almost all of my dating online, and I know in the early stages I would warn almost every single guy that they were about to get involved with a fat chick, like it was something "bad" about me. I'd offer up my "bad" qualities before they could even see my good ones. Now, although I've gotten over the being fat thing, I haven't quite come to terms with the fact that yes, I am okay, and that people can and will like me for who I am. I'm trying to hide that side of me from this current guy and I fear that it isn't working. The voice in my head that tells me I'm worthless has been ringing clear, and does ring clear with almost every guy I get involved with. They're ALL too good to be true -- why should this one be any different?

I'm really trying to be okay with myself and be more assertive and what not but damn it's hard, lol. I've never been able to just be like "K this is what I want!" because somewhere along the line it got engraved in me that what I want didn't matter as long as I was pleasing someone else -- that's what's going on here. I want him to be pleased with me, and I want to suit him. If it doesn't work, then I feel like I failed. I don't really know how to overcome that.

There is no point to contact him.

You thought you had a connection. Who knows, maybe for a moment you did. But you don't now, for sure. Regardless of how he feels about you which you'll never know he doesn't have enough respect for you to be worth your time.

YOU NEED TO FIND A PERSON WHO VALUES YOU.

Just move on. Don't text him. Don't call him. Don't think about him. Easier said than done, I know.

The problem with making an assumption with someone so soon is that you are basing it on - what? - you don't know the person. There are times where I may assume things that my husband is thinking and be wrong, so to think you can get an idea of how an almost-stranger feels won't make sense.

I agree with JohnP, I don't see the point in contacting him. If he cared, this thread would not even exist. I'm sorry, I know it hurts, but in the future, insist upon real dates and withhold sex until you are comfortable AND the conditions are more clear/established.

I think if you contact him, he might take it as desperation - which at best, will be ignored, at worst, be taken advantage of again because I wonder if he could tell you a story and you'd believe it and give him another chance, just being honest.

Originally Posted by :
YOU NEED TO FIND A PERSON WHO VALUES YOU.

There is no doubt that this is what you want. I felt that from what you said. We all want that. And yes, there is a third option as mentioned here many times -- and that is to just forget him, and move on ... becuz I didn't like some of the things he said to you; but only you can make the final decision.

I wouldn't over-analyze whether a guy thinks you are desperate or not; to me what you want and need matters more. You are very self-conscious and insecure, but a nice guy would like you for you anyways, regardless of that.

So, the question is how do you know when a good one comes along. I would suggest all outside the home dates at the beginning. How does he show you he values you? Well, he's polite and respectful. He wouldn't be rubbing himself against you on the first date (none of my dates ever did that).

If you want a serious long-term relationship, then set some limits so they can't use you anymore. Maybe holding hands on the first date; and a kiss the second one. This is only a basic guideline. This is not about old ways vs new ways -- you are just trying to establish respect here. At the start, try to keep the relationship in "friendship mode".

That will give you time to get to know the guy and visa-versa. That means going out and doing something fun, and talk, talk, talk. You can't talk enuff ... ;) Ask a lot of questions. That's how you find out what kind of guy he is; and where you stand every inch of the way.

When I was taking social work, experts suggested that you give a relationship at least 2 months (about 8 weeks) to be able to really know what someone is like. We all try to put our best foot forward. If someone is even a little pretentious, their true colors will start to show by that time.

Also, always try to meet his family as soon as possible. Why -- becuz they can't hide things from their family; and his family would tell on him. If he doesn't want you to meet his family -- be suspicious. If you go to his home, only go during the day for a short time to check it out, then leave.

Also try to meet his friends; they too can be a guide for you to see what kind of person he is, and what kind of people he hangs with. You can learn a lot about someone from their friends.

Hope this helps you in some way ... :)

Look, newbie or not, you STILL need to sort out your calling card.

So set the newbie aside. We ALL outgrow that. Not even an issue unless you want to make it one. Don't.

And set the self esteem aside for just a moment.

What IS your calling card for 22 yrs old? What are you looking for in a relationship?

I'm reading so far you want to

Originally Posted by :
date someone decent for a while (how long? 6 mos? 12 mos? )

possibly have it lead to a closed relationship that is exclusively dating just each other and going steady. (You sound like you prefer to focus attention on one person at a time rather than date many at once.)

you like to please your partner, so want feedback on this regularly so you know what's going well and what is not in the relationship. (Spoken? Written? Every day? Weekly? Monthly status updates?)

You need to know how partner wants to hear YOUR feedback on what they are doing well and you appreciate and what you don't prefer.

a plus size friendly person is ideal, pref with good manner that doesn't kill self esteem with self esteem eroding talk or habits. (It doesn't matter if they talk nice about YOU if they talk nasty about women in general. You are a woman, that would still ding you. YKWIM?)

That's a decent start. Where is the rest?

Originally Posted by :
Where are your deal breakers? What are they exactly? What could he do that would be an automatic "Dumpin' ya, dude!"

How are you expecting sex to figure in here? When do you prefer to get sexual in an rship? A month in? Longer? What's the birth control story for you? The STD checks? Even with my FWB, it was 4 mos after we met and were hanging out doing the non-dating-dating thing. Fly solo to take the edge off -- don't RUSH into sex. Even with a FWB.

If there is to be a break up, how you you prefer to be broken up with? In person? Straight up? Fade away leave me hanging? What?

Finish fleshing out your calling card first.

Think about what YOU want for a change -- just write it out. And don't stress over it. This is not the calling card for LIFE. It's just the calling card for 22. You can always make a new one if your life situation changes and you want something else at 22 1/2 or 23 or 24 or...

But make a firm calling card for your RIGHT NOW needs. And don't be surprised if in doing so, your self esteem meter rises a few points.

To grow self esteem, we do esteemable things. Personal growth like this counts. :D

As for this...

Originally Posted by :
The voice in my head that tells me I'm worthless has been ringing clear, and does ring clear with almost every guy I get involved with. They're ALL too good to be true -- why should this one be any different?

Originally Posted by :
somewhere along the line it got engraved in me that what I want didn't matter as long as I was pleasing someone else -- that's what's going on here. I want him to be pleased with me, and I want to suit him. If it doesn't work, then I feel like I failed.

Level the playing field. Stop placing yourself in such a poor position and these people on pedestals.

They are the judges? You are some kind of competitor in a race to win what? Their approval? That is not relating back and forth as equal partners. That's idolatry. That's a one way street and frankly -- I'd get boooored on a pedestal.

I was put on a pedestal once -- I was adored but never related to,interacted with. A two-way street.

I was made into some shiny trophy -- not paid attention to as a person. Brought offerings, shown off, but kept at arm's distance from any kind of emotional or mental intimacy because he didn't want me to see the "real him" or know his warts. So... I'm supposed to be happy with the shiny gift wrap only? Never see inside the gift?

I broke up with the guy. I lost patience.

Stop putting people on pedestals above you. Place them beside you so you can get to know them warts and all, and be friends, and perhaps more.

All of you are average 20's type people. No better, no less than the next guy until you get to know them a real people. When just meeting? All average.

You do not shine until you allow yourself to be the real you. They don't shine until they are the real them. It isn't that people are fake, but they are putting best foot forward in the beginning. To love someone, warts and all, there's going to the be the time for showing the warts. Be prepared to feel vulnerable when your warts pop out (prob with the self esteem thing) and be prepared to see warts in the other person.

What warts can you live with? Which are deal breakers?

I don't love WWII model planes, but I can live with DH having this hobby even though I think it's the most boring thing ever. I am polite, and say nothing, but assembling plastic chunks is not MY idea of a good time. But he's happy so I'm happy for him. A wart I can live with even if for me it means dusting endless toy planes. C'est la vie.

If his hobby was bar-b-q babies and flaying puppies, I'd have a problem. Not only would I dump him, I'd call the police! That's NOT a wart I can live with!

Keep this more real, and be kinder to YOURSELF.

Get what YOU want out of your life. You can do it! :cheer:

GL!
A.

^^ Very well said.
Instead of worrying about what he wants, what's going through his mind, etc, just focus on yourself. You haven't heard from him since Monday (I think that's what you said, correct me if I'm wrong!)...do you want to be with someone who will go that long without contacting you? And prior to that, you said it was only you who had been initiating contact for awhile, which, even though you said he was responding, still says something.
You deserve to be with someone who wants to text you, talk to you, see you, just have some sort of contact with you everyday!
You sound SO MUCH like I was before I met my husband. I always worried what the guys wanted, worried that I wasn't what they were looking for, and I let them walk all over me. I had two guys just stop contacting me after we were seeing each other for awhile. It was like they fell off the face of the earth. At first I made excuses for them - they're busy, they're stressed, etc. Then when it was obvious that they weren't coming back, I blamed myself. It took a lot of experience and a lot of soul searching before I realized that I couldn't and shouldn't make myself into what someone wanted - if I wasn't what they wanted, no big deal, time to move on. I so badly didn't want to be alone that I kind of shoved what I wanted to the side, and just wanted someone to want me. But really, I should have been looking for someone who fit into what I wanted, rather than trying to change myself for someone else, know what I mean? I changed my attitude, and met my husband who treated me as I deserved, who was exactly what I wanted, and the rest is history.
Now, I'm not saying you're like I was necessarily...but you definitely sound similar in a lot of ways.
You're a beautiful girl, don't settle for anything less than what you deserve, which is to be wanted, desired, valued and cherished.
Even if this guy is just really busy, it takes 10 seconds to send a text message. In this day and age where there are tons of different ways of communicating, there's really no reason for having no contact for several days, busy or not.
I agree with Astrophe - define your own rules, and be kinder to yourself. You deserve it. Big hugs!!