It seems off but are you sure the man isn't deaf or something? Could that be why his daughter doesn't usually speak and uses hand gestures to talk to the other girl in her class.
I think it's great you want to help but there may not be anything harmful going on and you might bring them lots of trouble under the guise of friendship if you start making reports b/c someone "seems off" and you don't understand their family's interaction. Be honest, do you really want to be their friend or do you just want to get close to see what's up with something that strikes you funny? Will you continue to be friends if you don't find anything wrong? Do you really see yourself being this woman's long term friend?
JMHO but you're overstepping by pretending to form a friendship with this woman out of a judgement that b/c their looks and way they relate remind you of your own past hurts. You have already set up a "tests" to test their reactions. That's just not right, especially if you're going to report them for not passing your "test".
I don't agree with reporting unless you witness abuse. The last thing a struggling family needs is people making accusations that endanger their family unit. What happens if the children are taken even temporarily and put into foster care where something bad does happen to them? What besides seeming off to you have they done? If you're gonna go that far, you might as well tell someone where you are going(just in case you go missing, which is unlikely but your post insinuated you think the man is capable of such a thing) and visit her at her home without your children to talk. You might just find out that things are fine and they have shy children b/c they are shy people b/c of esteem about their finances.
This family definitely seems off and I don't want to downplay your concerns because I'd probably have the same ones in your situation, but I did want to put it out there that there is such a thing as 'selective mute-ism'. It's an anxiety disorder and not unheard of in young children.
My DD has a very good friend that suffers from this and is often confused with being shy, scared or abused. She is none of those things - comes from a happy, healthy family with 'normal' siblings. She just won't/can't speak publicly. She whispers to her parents and siblings and to a couple of VERY select friends (my DD being one, but it took a long time of my DD being friends with her). She attends intensive therapy for her anxiety and is making slow progress. It's been very baffling and frustrating to her parents.
Good luck tonight - I hope it goes well for you and you are able to make some headway.
I don't know what to tell you. I never had to deal with "strangers" or "people with kids."
The few times I came across abused women, I had already become friends with them through another area -- volunteering for instance. And in growing close over many months, THEN it came out they were having probs being abused. They were married but no kids.
Then I try to just be a friend. They are not always free to leave. You may want to cruise through the site yourself and read the "how to be a friend" segments.
If you are going to be her friend, be a friend then but be prepared for it to get weird... not not.
If you are concerned but don't want to get tight -- talk to the teacher that you've noticed this kid has latched on to yours and seems a bit unusual. And perhaps the teacher may want to look into it. That's enough heads up and let's hope it it just hearing probs and not stuff like abuse.
Since you haven't seen abuse yourself, I do not know about calling your town's DCF.
I have nothing to offer except perhaps the mom and daughters are embarassed by the dad's appearance and perhaps their own which is why the older girl wouldn't take off her coat. If they are poor and aware of their personal selves, that could play a part in their behavior. Just one thought on one aspect of what you're describing.
When I was a kid, we were poor, but from a poor neighborhood and didn't know the difference as we were all in the same boat. These kids, they probably see the difference and it may shame them some.
Last edited by 124chicksinger; 03-09-2012 at 06:27 PM.
Okay, so she resisted me picking her up and said that her husband wanted to drop her off and I could take her home, that way he knew where she was at. I said I was okay with that but stressed that it was a girl's night, and even my husband would not be here. I had another friend come over with her little girl as well, so it was really like a girl's night. We got snacks and I bought some frozen pizzas and we rented a few movies, took a walk around the town hall in our little town, etc. It was a nice evening, and I was so desperately searching for cues that they are alright, I don't want anything to be wrong. i don't want to call on anyone for their children...I would not want it done to me, but I think in some cases it is needed. As of this moment, I really feel I have to children's services,to the core of my being I believe something is happening, something is wrong, not only to these girls but the mama as well, I am literally worried sick for all three of them:
1. When her husband dropped her off I walked out onto the porch to greet them. She got out and started to let her girls out, and was saying that they brought a lot of stuff. I walked out toward their van and was going to help them get their stuff and she was waving me to go back and saying they got it, they got it. I tried waving at her husband, but he would not wave back and seemed to be staring at me. She got her stuff and walked toward my house, but they left the side door to the van open. I tried to tell her, but her husband was already getting out of the van and did not look happy...but honestly, my kids have done that to me and it is frustrating!
Since I had started to tell her she left the door open she turned back as he was rounding the front of the van and he gave her this mean look, like very tense, and then he saw me watching I think and looked at me and smiled and waved. I still had a bad feeling about him, but I do know those things can be frustrating and wasn't thinking much about it.
2. She was asking me what I do for a living because i work from home and I told her. She waited until we were in my car alone (my friend had all of our girls in her van following behind us) and she asked if I could teach her to do what I do. I told her I would help her, and then she asked if she could somehow keep the money with me or in a Paypal account and not let her husband know she has it. I told her that was possible and she said her husband spends every dime she makes, he doesn't work, and she would just like to save up some money. I told her I would help her and see if she can learn it, but I don't want to keep her money, she could set up paypal account and just not tell him about it maybe. I don't want to be holding her money, she needs to find her own safe place to keep it if that is what she needs to do.
3. Her girls did open up some and were talking throughout the night. At one point her older daughter said "i hope we can stay here all weekend. I don't want to go home." Later in the morning when we were packing to take them home, her younger daughter came in and was whispering "i don't want to go. can't we just stay?" I was right next to her and could hear it. The mom kept telling her to go and get her stuff, stop talking, shushing her. The girl kept coming back and at one point said "Just ask her if I can stay. I don't want to go home." The evening before the mom had told me that they can stay as many nights as I wanted them to because she did not want to go home. This was making me very uneasy, it was like none of them wanted to go home. I felt guilty taking them home because I knew they did not want to go...they were very vocal about that, but i didnt' know what to do! We are struggling some ourselves and don't have room to move another family in...they have to go home, but what do you do when they are not wanting to go home?
3. The mom told me that this was the first time she has ever been away from her husband in 11 years of marriage. She said he does not like her to make friends, will not allow her to get her driver's license, and she cannot go anywhere unless he takes her. When I said "well, he cannot forbid you from getting a license, can he? What if you told him you wanted to?" she seemed to have the mindset that she can't because he won't allow her to. She said she has a sister in a town not far from us, but he will not even allow her and the girls to go visit her, she is only allowed to visit his family there in their little trailer park. She has not been allowed to visit her sister since shortly after she got married. The sister offers to pick her up but he will not allow it. She said where they live is an isolated trailer park and everyone in the little park is her husband's family. They are very dependent on his daddy (the girl's grandpa), and she said they cannot go anywhere or do anything unless the grandpa agrees and gives them the money. She had tears in her eyes at one point telling me that besides work she cannot leave their little trailer. i really feel she was reaching out for help, but was watching her words and not saying too much. I was not sure how to respond, so I did more listening and just letting her get it off her chest.
4. The older daughter (10 years old) changed into a pair of sweatpants with holes in the knees once we were here, making pizzas, in for the night. She started running all through the house on all fours, barking, sniffing the floor, just going really fast on hands and knees all throughout the house. The mom explained that when they are at home she is not herself, she is a dog. She pretends like she is a dog, and she has to change into those pants because they already have the holes worn from doing it, so they are the only pants she wears at home or is allowed to be a dog in. She did not stop this the entire night. She would play with my daughter and the other girl here (both her age), but she would follow them down like a dog. It seemed like as a dog she would talk and was happy, when she was on her feet and walking like everyone else she barely spoke a word. I really feel this is a coping mechanism.
5. I told the mom I had some clothes I no longer wear if she wants to try them on. As we were going through and she was telling me which ones might fit her she told me that she has never had clothes of her own. Her husband does not believe that women should wear anything expensive, so he goes to the flea market and buys 3X to 4X sweatpants that fit him, and they share them. She said he figures why should they spend money on clothes if she wears his size...but she does not! She is literally living in his 3-4X sweatpants, but she was trying on and fitting my 16 pant that I cannot fit into anymore. I sent her home with a bunch of clothes and she commented that "they won't know what to think of me, I may not be able to wear them but to work, or they will think I am big headed." These were not fancy clothes, as I am not rich either, just blue jeans, t-shirts, etc. But she feels she cannot wear them around home because of what this family will think of her. She said they have 3 pair of sweatpants that her and the husband share, and a few t-shirts, and her husband believes that is enough because he spends every dime she makes on himself. She did not say what on.
6. She told me her husband never drinks, not a drop of alcohol ever. Then later was very concerned with wtaching the time and finally said she needed to call her husband because he might get mad if she didn't check on him, he doesn't like to be alone. So she called and my cell phone you can hear if you are sitting nearby. it sounded like a normal conversation, then he started yelling and she went out of the room and cam back when she had hung up. She started laughing and said that he was at a friend's house and they were getting drunk and she just hoped he got home okay, because soemtimes he gets too drunk and it makes her nervous when he drives them home. She said at least the girls aren't there this time..but she had told me earlier he does not drink. I believe this is what he is spending her money on.
7. When it was time to leave for me to take them home she said she had to call her husband and make sure he was home because she does not have a key to their home. I made a light comment that it is her house, she should have a key, and she nodded her head and said "I know, but he won't let me go anywhere without him, so he says I don't need one."
7. While we were gathering all of their stuff her daughter was practically begging to stay, she did not want to go home. I had a small table where they had cookies, cupcakes, etc. out the evening before, and I walked into the room and her younger daughter was stuffing all of the cookies into her coat pockets, her pant pockets, and she jumped and threw them back down when I turned the corner. I told her it was okay, got a bag, put all of the leftover snacks in there, and told her she could take them home. She smiled and stood back against the wall, and seemed happy then, but the way she jumped and started throwing it all back down told me something is not right. She was trying to sneak them all home.
8. As we were leaving, the older daughter told my daughter "try to invite me over a lot, okay? Like all the time. I don't want to go home."
9. The mom told me that her older daughter does not like to take her coat off because she is developing (as is my daughter and most girls their age) and she does not want anyone to look at her. She said she wears her coat even at home when they are in their house, and she sleeps in it, and in the summertime she insists on wearing a jacket no matter how hot it is out. She said the younger girl insists on wearing her bathing suit in the bathtub and they don't like to change their clothes for bedtime, they just want to wear what they have on. She was telling me this in a chit chatty way, but to me it screams that something may be happening to these girls. Are they hiding their bodies? I have met a lot of my daughter's friends (many very poor as well, we are not in a rich area), and I have never heard of or seen any of them being this way. There has to be a reason for it!
10. When I went to bed everyone was asleep already. I woke up at 7 AM to the mom crawling in bed beside me! It kind of freaked me out because she just climbed in and started talking, really fast, like something was bothering her or she felt it was her last chance to talk, I'm not sure. But, she started telling me that the school had called CPS on her because her daughter wore two different shoes to school. She said that they didn't have shoes for her to wear on gym day (they have to wear tennis shoes on gym day here), so they had somehow found two different shoes that fit her and she was wearing those. She said the teacher sent her a note home about it and then the next day gave her daughter a brand new pair of shoes. Shortly after she said children's services were knocking on her door and her husband was irrate, and she just knows it was that teacher that called because her daughter doesn't have shoes for gym. She said that she hopes they close the case soon because her husband's family does not like the social workers coming into their community. I really sensed this was bother her, enough she climbed into my bed early morning and just started talking about it. I asked her if there was any other reason that they need to be involved and she paused and then said. "I don't guess so, I don't know really." which is a strange response. I told her I am willing to help her in any way I can, just let me know.
10. When we arrived at her house, I honestly feel she could not leave this place if she wanted to. it is a small trailer park close to my house, but I never knew it was there. It is down a gravel road tucked in the woods, a series of small, falling down trailers all owned by her husband's family. There were two men standing outside her trailer talking to her husband, one dressed head to toe in camo with a gun in his hand (I think it is hunting season so I didn't worry so much about that)...but they gave me this look, like in the movies when someone rides in a town they don't belong and everyone gives them that look...it was exactly like that. I immediately felt weird. They watched us pull up to their trailer and then the husband came over to us and the other guys left. One said "I'll talk to ya later" like he was leaving, but I noticed he was standing down the way watching us around the corner of a trailer. I helped her put the clothes and everything I gave them into the house and I told her bye, told her husband bye. He was laughing and joking and seemed okay, but I still just had that feeling like something was not right. The man watched us from a few trailers away the entire time, peeking around a corner, and soon as I pulled out he headed back for their trailer.
When I left, i was in my car and had it started, and she came back out with her older daughter. Her daughter went toward the car to say bye to my daughter so I stopped. Then she called her younger daughter out and she waved. and they stood there watching us pull away and I did not want to leave them there. I just wanted to cry.
Have you ever been to a place that felt bad, like a sadness or something? I have never felt it in my life, but I knew they did not want to go home and now I realized why.
11. As we were pulling down the little gravel driveway toward the trailers her older daughter started to say something and the mom immediately told her to shush and the girl looked down and got quiet again. All she got out was "and the landlord tore down--" but the mom immediately told her to shush and that was the end of it. She had already told me way more than I ever thought she would just be open about, so this had to be something bad, but I don't know what it was she wanted to say.
12. While we were standing out in front of the trailer getting her clothes and stuff out of my trunk, I was not even thinking and just said to her girls "did you show your daddy your pretty nails?" because we had painted all of their nails and toes and put little stickers and glitter on them during the girl's night. My kids would have shown my hubby and I was not even thinking that the relationship is not the same with them, so I just said it, trying to include him. Both girls put their hands out to show him, but they both looked down and did not make eye contact with him. I realize I have never seen them go near him or speak to him, this is the only interaction with him I have witnessed. He was smiling and saying "ohhh ok" but they both stared away, one at the ground and the other off to the side, and they ran away immediately after showing him. this tells me something is going on, they would not look up at him and it seemed to be a tense moment that they were asked to interact with him. I am just so worried that I somehow got them in trouble or made it worse because they got out of the house, got their nails done, and maybe this will work out bad for them?
So, I have not witnessed abuse, but I strongly believe something is happening to these little girls! I know the school had to have more reason to call than what the mom told me. We are not rich people, we go to a poor school where a lot of people are very poor. They have a lot of donated stuff that they give to kids all the time. They would not call just because they cannot afford shoes..they give shoes to a lot of kids. We also have a program where they feed kids lunch throughout the summer becasue a lot of people struggle with food in our area. I just know there is more reason for them to call and I strongly feel I have to call. I feel better that there is alraedy an open case, because they won't see that I meet them and suddenly the social worker is on their doorstep, they are already going out there. I am just going to call and ask to speak to whoever is over her case and just tell her what I was told by this mom and express my concern. Maybe it can help with the case they are already working through. I have never had to do this, but I was literally crying and shaking after dropping them off, because i did not want to leave them there. I wanted to ask her "do you want to go to a women's shelter rather than going home?" and I don't know why i didn't just say it. I just didn't know what to do or what would make it worse for them, better for them, whatever.
I really do like this woman, and her girls are so sweet even when acting like a dog and refusing to speak. I am going to stay in touch and maybe invite them back over one day, if the husband will allow them to. i feel I did this wrong. i should have offered to take them somewhere other than home! I don't know why I didn't do it.
My heart just breaks for them ... I have tears in my eyes reading this. You're in such a difficult situation. I truly think you are already doing so much and helping them feel that they have someone else to turn to. Personally, I would make the phone call. Just talk to them & since yhwte is already an open case, it may be what they need or the extra push to look closer. This is just so sad God bless you for your kindness! That is what this family needs.
I'm going to go back against my normal self that tells me to wait until you see something, but this seems like so obvious a case that you have to call someone.
Obviously CPS is involved already. I think you're right about the mother holding back about why the school called. That actually helps you in a way. Certainly an anonymous tip would help push CPS, and since they're already involved, they won't think it's coming from you. (hopefully)
I agree with calling a woman's shelter for their advice. I would also call the school. They won't talk to you about it, but at least you can fill their heads up without them saying a word.
Thanks for the input everyone. I feel sick to my stomach, cannot concentrate on work, I have a headache, i am so worried about everything right now and am not sure I made the right decision. I did call CPS and had a long talk with them. I left my report anonymous but with a phone number so the caseworker can call me if needed. They said the caseworkers are not supposed to say who called, but that most people reported will assume who they think it is, so there is no saying that they won't accuse me and that I should be prepared for that. He also said that even if there is an open case on them, if they decide that my report is valid or reason enough to add to the case, that they are legally required to tell the family that another call has been received for them. Since they were just at my house last night, that made me very worried that they are going to know it was me...especially because she told me so many things that I am pretty sure she has not told anyone else, so if they go in armed with this info I might be the only one who could have possibly told. BUT, if the situation is as I think it is, I don't think the mom would tell the dad that she told me all that, so maybe if she knows it was me but wants the help she won't tell him it was me. Gosh, he is so scary, and the men watching me drop them off was so scary, I worry about my family now. I went back and forth to call or not..but honestly, why would she tell me all of this, not knowing me, if she was not reaching out for help? This is the only way I can help.
The social worker first said for me to tell him the basics of what is happening without identifying the family. It was a long talk and I still managed to leave some things out, I was so nervous and upset. He told me that there are certainly a lot of red flags for someone like me, and there are red flags for him, but that they are bound by the law and he cannot guarantee that the caseworker will think this is a reason to open a new case against them. He said he was taking detailed notes and would write up a report, it would be passed to the caseworker on their case if there is an open file, and either it would sit there as additional info, or it would be entered as an additional case, in which case they would have to inform the parents that a new call has been made against them. After hearing the details, he urged me to enter the report, but said that I had not directly seen abuse, she had not told me "we are being abused," so there is no guarantee that the caseworker will act on it. He said if what I reported does not add new details to the existing case, then it would just be left noted that I called and verified what they already had reported, and no new case would be filed.
He also told me to "be very cautious" having them in my home, that I should meet with them in public places. He said that he thinks I have gotten myself in too close and that it sounds like this may be more than I even realize, and that I should protect may family and be careful. WHAT does that MEAN? Do they tell everyone that? Does he know the case and is telling me something? He specifically said "I am not criticizing you, I know you are well meaning and didn't know what you were stepping into, but I fear you have gotten in over your head and are in closer than you want to be." then he added "closer to whatever this may be, which I am not saying it is anything." I am so scared now. Did I do the right thing? Will they know it was me and should I fear for my own family? I just don't know at this point.
anyway, the older daughter has now friended me on FB and has been talking to me. I am just torn and sick to my stomach. I have never had to deal with this before, and I want to help them, not hurt them. I want to see them come out stronger, happier, and healthy. Whatever that means or takes.
I am glad you are trying to help the lady. when you meet her ask her is there any mailaddress which only she has an access. Ask her if she wants help for speech therapy for girls. Whether there is anybody out there who harrases her etc.
But, do not trust 100% to what she says. Help her to stand on her own feet..do some part time job. Charity cripples people and then they feel it is their right. See whether there is any help available in local church after school hours. If the girls remain somewhere out of the house while mom works somewhere it will help them. They may talk to people in church.
Ok, I don't know if they say be careful to everyone or not. There's probably a few things you can do right now though that might help and are good in general.
Have a talk with your 8 year old. Make sure he understands he goes with no one anywhere except you. Does he know how to call 911? All that kind of stuff.
Does your husband know the extent of what has happened? If he doesn't, he needs to know right now.
It is probably still a good idea to call the women's shelter and get some information, in case someone does decide to open up to you you'll have that information ready for them.
Vex--I thought about trying to contact the sister, or the husband has 3 older daughters (2 over 18) that live in another state and I thought maybe they are on her FB page...but I don't want to do that. i don't know what these people know, if they would help her, what the relationships are, I don't want to make it worse for them in any way if something is happening. there are a lot of people with her same last name on her FB page, but I think that is her married name. i don't know the maiden name, so I don't know who to contact.
I have decided not to pump for info. I don't want to feel like I am a spy or something, or for her to realize it was me and feel I was just spying. I really want to help in any way I can, and that includes helping if they do take the kids, or get her out of there, if they end up at a shelter, whatever, I have decided to be there for her as much as I can without putting my own family on the line.
I am just confused why she laid all of this on me now...she doesn't know me very well but has been saying things like "I don't want to go home" since the first day we met. I could not live with myself if I was her only source of help and i did nothing.
I have been thinking about what to tell my kids. I don't want them to know much, I don't want them to change how they treat these girls at school, but I want them to be aware at least.
My husband does know. he has not met this woman beyond the birthday party, she has not talked to him, so he just knows what I know. I told him I am worried if something goes down this peed off daddy is going to show up at my house. He doesn't seem too worried at this point, but thinks I did the right thing going off what happened this weekend. It's just a hard spot when you sincerely believe soemthing bad is happening to children and a mother, but not know for sure or what it is, etc. This is a hard spot to be in. I am intimidated by the father and the men outside their trailer...so no doubt she is too if there is something going on.
I third the advice about the women's shelter. It would be great to put the woman in contact with a trained professional who is able to help her take control of her life.
Right now, it sounds like you have become her life line and the guy at CPS was probably trying to caution you against allowing her to lean too heavily on you for support. I wouldn't read too much into what he was saying, but please make sure that you are YOUR husband are on the same page about any further actions concerning her and her family. Don't drive yourself crazy, but it might be worthwhile to have a contingency plan for what to do if the father or any of the other guys from the trailer park DO show up on your doorstep. Might even be worth letting your local police department know, just so they have a record of your concern.
It is a gift that you are showing such concern for this woman, but in the end, only SHE has the power to change her life. You can support her and give her the tools, but the will and desire to act must come from inside her.
God bless you for your kindness! That is what this family needs.
