I don't think anyone who posted is "blaming the mother" or saying she is a bad person. As Glory87 pointed out, addictions take on a life of their own and sometimes they are too much for a person to say no to.

I also think rubidoux made a point that was in the back of my mind, also because I am an ex-smoker: she is most likely sneaking cigarettes more often, because it is SUPER hard to just have one.

Ultimately, for me, I do blame her friends and family that came and were chainsmoking in her presence.

I think it could seem like most the posts are blaming the mother - but in my mind, we want to protect the baby (who has no say in the manner). I just think we all cringe when we know a baby will be exposed to carcinogens in cigarettes. We don't know what bad side effects it could have.

Btw, ingesting artficial sweetener, caffiene, or produce that is not organic may not be the "ultimate picture of health", but in the matter of degrees, it has nowhere near the amount of harmful chemicals as cigarettes. I don't think it is fair at ALL, or correct, to compare those substances.

Unna, I agree. I didn't mean to come off sounding like I thought caffeine and nutra-sweet are anywhere near as toxic as cigarettes, and I didn't mean to offend anyone on the board who has consumed any of those substances while pregnant. I don't think that that makes you a bad mom, a bad person, or anything else. I know how hard it is to abstain from anything and I guess what I was trying to say in my post was not that i thought it was "wrong" for people to do these things, but I was trying to keep myself from making judgments about people when I see them doing things we kind of assume are "wrong" for pregnancy when I don't know the whole story. Like some of the other posters on this board have pointed out, of course there are safe levels of caffeine and other chemicals during pregnancy, and those are decisions that should be made by the woman with information from her health care provider- not strangers who see them briefly as I did in my situation with the girl in school. I know that there's even a safe level of alcohol consumption during pregnancy, according to many health care providers, and it is common in many countries for women to occasionally have a drink while pregnant. In the US, if a pregnant woman were having a drink at a bar, I think there would be a lot of stares and judgment, even if it was a half a wine spritzer or something.

Perhaps her friends and family who were smoking around her didn't give much thought to the fact that she was breastfeeding before they lit up, or that it might be difficult for her to refuse. I know you've posted before that in your area of the world, smoking seems more prevalent than it does in the US. Do you think that they just thought that since she wasn't pregnant anymore there was no harm in her lighting up? Do you think some of it could have been them feeling defensive once her husband said he didn't want her smoking (along the lines of, "Well, I smoked when I was breastfeeding, and MY baby turned out just fine, what are you trying to say??")?


In any case, I didn't mean to offend anyone on here! Sometimes it's hard to post about things like this because they are sensitive and personal, and without the benefit of being face-to-face with all you lovely ladies, sometimes intent gets lost.

DezziePS: The comment wasn't aimed at your story at all. I think it is natural to contemplate how "safe" chemicals such as sweetener, or the intake of massive amounts of caffiene, can effect the baby.

A few other posters seemed to then read your post as if you were saying these more minor things were just as bad as smoking and that you were being too judgmental of mothers. What you were really saying was that one mother-to-be's behavior went completely against common sense and you worried about the potential outcome - just as the mother I saw the other night did something that went against common sense. Both of our examples are extreme - they are not simply a mother who drank a diet coke.

Also, the mother's sister has a child, she smokes frequently, and I'm pretty sure she smoked while breastfeeding. Actually, she left quite early - maybe the husband did offend her. Interesting point - I hadn't thought of that.

chickadee32: I don't think we are throwing stones. There are some facts that should also not be ignored.

-While being obese and pregnant may injure the child, it is not necessarily so.

-Smoking cigarettes and then breastfeeding will injure the child (the severity of the injury will differ).That we know for sure.

I think the thread is super interesting - I have learned one thing, though, while you may happen to think thoughts of judging a mother's behavior (normal), NEVER say it. It is not our place. I guess it is the equivalent of telling someone they need to change their diet because they are getting too big! That always backfires.

Smoking while breastfeeding increases risks, yes, but that does not equate with injury. There is no rule that says smoking when breastfeeding *WILL* cause problems, it means the risks increase. It's not the same thing.

Just the same, it is considered (statistically via risks) safer to breastfeed as a smoker than to give formula as a smoker(!) which is why I posted the kellymom link in the first place (this relates to immunity protection etc).

"It's definitely better if breastfeeding moms not smoke, but if you can't stop or cut down, then it is better to smoke and breastfeed than to smoke and formula feed."
KELLYMOM

**^^This is why I spoke against the "no win" of comments from others. Even though it is statistically safer for her to breastfeed as a smoker than to give formula as a smoker, others chimed in that she should at least give formula instead rather than actually researching this comment and realizing that even lactation consultants will say the opposite. Obviously not smoking or "pump n dump" is a better option but formula... no. This highlights why us moms simply can't win sometimes

- Sacha (a never smoking, formula feeding mom)

sacha: I like how you signed off with "never smoking, formula feeding mom", that made me smile!

What I meant with:

"Smoking cigarettes and then breastfeeding will injure the child (the severity of the injury will differ).That we know for sure."

Every cigarette smoked by anyone, and any baby that drinks breastmilk from a mother who has just smoked, will be harmed. The harm may or may not be noticeable, depending on each case. There is a risk that it may produce empirically observable harmful results. Regardless, the body will still be exposed to harmful substances and will thus be harmed in any case.

Speaking of formula...maybe the mom in question fed her baby formula that night? Or she pumped before going to the gathering?

I know breastfeeding moms who will take a night off and have a drink, and give the little one pre-expressed milk for the night/following day. You say she was going to breastfeed and hour later and that was your issue, but did you physically watch her breastfeed? Do you know for a fact that she didn't give the baby a bottle instead?

I didn't want to comment on this thread initially, because I am a smoker, I've quit in the past and am currently trying to quit again...and while none of the comments on here offended me personally, I do think some of them were a bit out of line...such as smokers don't care about their health or anybody elses.

Those kinds of comments are unfair and completely hypocritical. Nobody is perfect, and everybody does SOMETHING that isn't 100% healthy. For every self righteous finger pointer, there is somebody standing on a soapbox slightly higher than you judging you for not doing something THEY deem essential or healthy.

Is smoking healthy? No. Should she have had a cigarette? Nobody's business but her own. Whether or not she breastfed her baby later that night, that's her own issue as well. nobody's perfect.

That night, the father expressed his concern, saying "You have to breastfeed in 95 min, why would you be having a cigarette now?" I do think, however, that the mother probably decided to use formula in the end. I don't know for sure, and I'm not going to ask. I'm not going to talk with her about it because it is none of my business - I just needed to vent my dilemma with others to get it out.

I am also an ex-smoker so I can totally sympathize with smokers. In fact, to even say that I will never smoke again in the future is too much. I take it day by day. I know how hard addictions are.

Many of us begin smoking when we are young. We don't really think it through. Then the addiction takes over, it is not something we want or will - it is simply there. Sometimes we can be stronger than it, sometimes not.

In my own studies at the uni, I have read a lot of interesting material on addictions - I believe even the strongest person with the best intentions can still succumb to addiction. It involves very complex physiological and mental processes that are not rational and go against how we really want to be.

I suppose that is why, in the end, I sort of ended up being the most angry at the two sisters. They know how much the mother LOVED to smoke. They didn't just have one cig around her, they were smoking constantly in the span of 2 hours. But they are addicted as well - I guess it is a vicious cycle.

In the end, if the mother is to truly quit smoking, I think she will have to change up her environment. That is not going to happen. I'm pretty sure, despite the fact that she has quit for over a 1 year (first quit when she was trying to get pregnant, and then didn't smoke at all during pregnancy), she will start smoking full-time again once the baby is finished breastfeeding.

That is obviously no prob for me - I couldn't care less if someone smokes; it was always the issue of harming another who has no voice, and disregarding what the other parent had to say.

Of course you were! It sounds like a very uncomfortable, awkward situation all around and you are COMPLETELY entitled to have feelings about it! I was just objecting to some of the comments from some of the other posters that were a bit mean.

I completely understand, and I know exactly how you feel. I used to work in a daycare and sometimes is soooooo hard not to say anything when a situation is iffy or rubs you the wrong way or just flat out makes you concerned for the baby. A lot of times I'd just go home and cry for a while.

I feel bad for the mother too. Its so hard not to join in when everybody's doing something that you enjoy doing...especially as it sounds like they were pressuring her a bit.

I hope she can be strong for her baby and husband and keep away from the cigs. Its hard...my mom smoked until I was about 10 and I know how hard she struggled to quit. It breaks her heart that I'm a smoker!

I think smoking in particular is the biggest case of cognitive dissonance there is. You know its awful, you know its bad for you, but you do it anyway and end up justifying it in some way. I think smoking and overeating are really similar addictions in this way.