When I had sciatica, I tried both. I was impressed that the chiro took x-rays and showed them to me while explaining what he was going to do. My co-pay was $5.00, while my plan did not cover acupuncture, so it cost me $$$$$. The acupuncture one kept telling me to come back, while the chiro kept saying to use a gel and ice, then heat; and, to come back if I felt the need. And, I was a firm believer that chiropractor = QUACKopractor. Now I go to him 2-3-4-5-6-7-8 times a year; whenever I feel the start of the sciatica.
acupuncture has been around since the 2nd century BC. if it didn't work i'm pretty sure people would have stopped using it by now and insurance wouldn't cover it. XD
Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it's effective. That belief is one of the many that keeps charlatans in business. NOT that I'm saying accupuncture is a charlatan business, but thats not a good arguement for it.
Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it's effective. That belief is one of the many that keeps charlatans in business. NOT that I'm saying accupuncture is a charlatan business, but thats not a good arguement for it.
Its the length of time acupuncture has been around plus that if it was ineffective people would stop (i.e. quack diet aids) plus it is recognized as a viable treatment by both insurance companies and medical and dental professional associations. The practice of oriental medicine includes acupuncture but also includes diagnosis and treatment by herbal remedies and teas. At one time, the bark of the willow tree was made into a tea and drank for pain relief. This is now known as aspirin. The scientific community is investigating the properties and uses of the various rememdies.
Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it's effective. That belief is one of the many that keeps charlatans in business. NOT that I'm saying accupuncture is a charlatan business, but thats not a good arguement for it.
sure it is. empires have come and gone, religions have come and gone, the human race has gone from basic tools to super computers, and next to nothing has been continously practiced in all that time. i have a deep respect for something that has stuck around through all that. just give science time it'll figure it out. science certainly hasn't ruled out that it has an effect it just finds it difficult to find a placebo to something that involves piercing someone. you can exactly not poke them and convince them you did.
Very true and well stated. Both are considered pseudosciences.... Some people swear both methods are effective for various ailments, but at the end of the day I think a lot of it is psychosomatic. =\
Both are considered by youas psuedoscience but they do not fit the definition.
"Pseudoscience is often characterized by the use of vague, exaggerated or unprovable claims, an over-reliance on confirmation rather than rigorous attempts at refutation, a lack of openness to evaluation by other experts, and a general absence of systematic processes to rationally develop theories.
This does not apply to either chiropractic therapy or oriental medicine.
This is not a subject about which I necessarily feel strongly. It absolutely is a personal decision on what treatment to seek and I am not criticizing your choice - just your choice of words (psuedoscience) as a statement of fact. Astrology, occult beliefs, homeopathy, etc are considered in mainstream scientific circles as 'psuedosciences'.
Both are considered by youas psuedoscience but they do not fit the definition.
"Pseudoscience is often characterized by the use of vague, exaggerated or unprovable claims, an over-reliance on confirmation rather than rigorous attempts at refutation, a lack of openness to evaluation by other experts, and a general absence of systematic processes to rationally develop theories.
This does not apply to either chiropractic therapy or oriental medicine.
This is not a subject about which I necessarily feel strongly. It absolutely is a personal decision on what treatment to seek and I am not criticizing your choice - just your choice of words (psuedoscience) as a statement of fact. Astrology, occult beliefs, homeopathy, etc are considered in mainstream scientific circles as 'psuedosciences'.
But... there isn't scientific supporting either of those. I'm not just basing what I think off of nothing. I wouldn't be saying what I'm saying if I'd seen any scientific studies showing that they produce results not even MOST of the time but many times. Homeopathy is a pseudoscience because of it's lack of scientific evidence, as is astrology. I don't understand how chiropracty doesn't fall into that category, it's equally lacking in the area of scientific evidence. I'm not saying any of this rude either, really and truly, if I'm wrong please correct me.
Thanks everyone for your replies.
I just watched some chiropractic adjustments on youtube, and I don't think that I can do it. It looks pretty brutal.
I talked to a fellow boy scout mom tonight that has a chiro in my area that she likes and trusts, but I'm still very leery.
But... there isn't scientific supporting either of those. I'm not just basing what I think off of nothing. I wouldn't be saying what I'm saying if I'd seen any scientific studies showing that they produce results not even MOST of the time but many times. Homeopathy is a pseudoscience because of it's lack of scientific evidence, as is astrology. I don't understand how chiropracty doesn't fall into that category, it's equally lacking in the area of scientific evidence. I'm not saying any of this rude either, really and truly, if I'm wrong please correct me.
But there is:
"For the past 20 years, Jaseng Hospital, located in the heart of Apgujeong, has been integrating Korean and Western medicine to effectively treat the root causes of neck, back, joint and muscle pain with individually tailored non-surgical treatments. Jaseng’s multi-lingual International Clinic is headed by the renowned Dr. Royer of Austria. The clinic has specialists and nurses fluent in English, German, Russian, Japanese, Chinese and Korean. The hospital’s website has also been translated into English, Russian & Japanese. The western medicine examination center has state of the art diagnostic equipment, (MRI, CT scan, x-ray, ultrasound, bone densitometry, blood stasis analysis and atherosclerosis test) to ensure patients are properly diagnosed. All medicine undergoes regular inspection of any residual pesticide and heavy metal for safety verification through the Korean Drug Test Laboratory.
Continuous joint research projects based on scientific evidence with international medical institutions, like the Osher Research Center at Harvard’s Medical School and UC Irvine’s School of Medicine are one of the hospitals distinguishing features. These projects lead to scientific results and discoveries, like the nerve and bone regenerating substance called “Shinbarometin”, discovered in Jaseng medicine. Jaseng secured a Korean and American medical substance patent and Green Cross Pharmaceuticals is currently developing a new western medicine based on ‘Shinbarometin.’
Technological advancements and discoveries over the years have made it possible for Jaseng to build a strong foundation of evidence-based scientific research. These milestones have proven the effectiveness of Korean medicine and Jaseng’s non-surgical treatments. A joint protocol with Harvard Medical School found that 95% of patients fully recovered after receiving Jaseng’s Non-Surgical Spinal Treatment for Herniated Disc. Continuous joint research projects and international journal publications further secure Jaseng’s place as a leader in ‘Evidence-based Oriental Medicine’."
(Chiropracty is not a word, the term is chiropractic care.)
But... there isn't scientific supporting either of those. I'm not just basing what I think off of nothing. I wouldn't be saying what I'm saying if I'd seen any scientific studies showing that they produce results not even MOST of the time but many times. Homeopathy is a pseudoscience because of it's lack of scientific evidence, as is astrology. I don't understand how chiropracty doesn't fall into that category, it's equally lacking in the area of scientific evidence. I'm not saying any of this rude either, really and truly, if I'm wrong please correct me.
Sorry, but I just have to bite because I did do a literature search and there absolutely is scientific evidence backing chiropractic care for some conditions. Medical journals often have each issue focus on a specific theme or topic and way back in 1998 the New England Journal of Medicine did a whole issue on spinal manipulation. That issue contains a bunch of studies on chiropractic care, but what I think may be more useful for this discussion is the editorial which not only tied in all of the studies from that issue, but also sort of summarizes the findings in the literature and references several previous studies. The gist is that chiropractic care has been proven to have some efficacy for lower back pain, has not been proven to have any efficacy for non-musculoskeletal issues (like high blood pressure, asthma, etc), and is still controversial for neck issues because there is an increased risk, albeit small, of serious complications associated with neck manipulation. This issue was from almost 13 years ago, but the same beliefs still hold true today. There are now more studies supporting lower spinal manipulation, and the consensus for neck manipulation is still that we don't really know if it is beneficial, neutral or harmful. I don't think there is anything showing efficacy for non-musculoskeletal issues although I've met a lot of chiropractors who think they can cure everything
Acupuncture is more well researched than chiropractic care. If you just go to pub med and type in "acupuncture pain" in the search bar, you will get thousands of hits. Of course not all of those are robust or even marginally good studies, so I did an advanced search that only included clinical trials, meta-analyses and reviews in core journals and found that while a few found no theraputic benefit to acupuncture, most did find a significant, although sometimes small, benefit. The big question then is whether it's cost effective given the benefit received and I would bet that there are people trying to figure that out right now.
Midwife, very interesting! I ended up needing chiropractic care while pregnant with dd2, because of some HORRIBLE pelvic pain. What he did was specialized, he was the only doc in a 50 mile radius of my home who did it, and I can't remember it's name for the life of me. Along with fixing my pelvic pain, he was also able to turn my breech baby. (off to search, back to update)
Edit: It's Webster's technique, for turning breech babies, and the pelvic pain was from Symphysis Pubis Dysfunction. Both were resolved in a couple weeks with chiropractic treatment.
Never tried acupuncture, but would be open to it as a last resort. I guess YMMV with any treatment, though.
My husband has a bulging disk in his lower back that when it gets inflamed, hits a nerve and he's out for a solid week in serious pain. It used to happen once a year to him, and when we got married it was happening like 3 to 4 times within 6 months. Dr's were NO help and acted like he was some druggie looking for a fix. They would tell him to stretch, and give him an rx for 1 vicoden and that would be it.
I got mad, had enough and told him we were going to a chiropractor. We looked around, got some advice from friends, and I loaded his broke back into the car, and brought him in. While she was working on him, I was wincing a bit, but he said it didn't hurt at all, and he was actually able to stand up and walk without dropping to his knees.
It was really expensive, but he has not had an episode in over a year and a half!! He only did the first 10 that we paid for too, so what she did lasted. She also gave him tons of great tips to help out in between sessions, like using ice packs, taking omega oils, certain vitamens, certain stretches, ect. It wasn't just an adjustment to his back, it was a whole lifestyle change.
I am happy he listend to me on this.
Just do your homework on both procedures and you'll find one that is right for you.
Also wanted to add that I applied for a Care Credit credit card that is acccepted at a lot of medical places. Part of our reasearch was looking for a chiropracter that accepted the card. It was like $500 for 10 adjustments, and we paid $100 a month without interest which helped a lot.
Last edited by CrystalZ10; 03-18-2011 at 10:57 AM.
Before I tried chiro OR acupuncture, I did a lot of research on the scientific evidence supporting them both. It HAS been shown that chiro/acupuncture can help with certain conditions, scientifically. You can do the research for your particular condition to see if it, specifically, has been shown to be effective. Here is a sample of the sort of information you might find:
Quote:
The National Institutes of Health (NIH) Consensus Development Conference Statement stated in November 1997 that that there is "clear evidence for acupuncture�s efficacy for treating postoperative and chemotherapy nausea and vomiting, the nausea of pregnancy, and postoperative dental pain." The NIH panel concludes that acupuncture may be an effective adjunctive therapy for many pain conditions. Acupuncture has been claimed effective for various pain conditions including migraines, back pain, tennis elbow menstrual cramps, fibromyalgia, and carpal tunnel syndrome. (http://www.health.org/pubs/acu-nih.htm). However, there exist studies that have not found acupuncture an effective approach in treating certain other pains like osteoarthritis pain, epicondylalgia, and motion sickness. These studies suggest acupuncture as no more effective than placebo. Acupuncture seems to be a safe and effective therapy for certain health problems, but further more controlled research is needed to establish a firmer ground for the efficacy of acupuncture in treating various chronic pains (Ceniceros & Brown 1998).
Now, a lot of chiros and acupuncturists say that they can fix things that are NOT supported by scientific study...some chiros in particular want to believe that every body ailment, from ear infections to cancer and immune deficiency, is caused by "subluxations in the spine", which aren't even a medically recognized phenomenon.
If chiro or acupuncture is clinically shown to help your condition (as it is for minor disc problems, OP, even though it didn't work in my case...and by the way, it looks bad, but is only mildly uncomfortable if you want to give it a try), there's no reason to avoid it wholesale. But you do need to be wary of the limits of what it has been demonstrated to do, as opposed to the claims that a lot of practitioners will make about the various ills it can "cure".
Last edited by mandalinn82; 03-18-2011 at 02:15 PM.
