What do you think of the "Fat Acceptance" Movement?
 

I didn't even realize there was a "movement" until a few months ago, so I guess I was hiding under a rock. I feel mixed about it. I don't accept my fat, but I do love myself...and yes I think that is possible lol I don't think anyone should be treated badly because of their weight and I think overweight people should have the same human rights and be treated with decency and kindness, of course!

At the same time, a movement toward accepting obesity as a lifestyle choice sort of appalls me as much as the Ana/Mia movement does (accepting anorexia/bulimia as a choice).

I wrote a post about it on my blog expanding on my thoughts if anyone is interested.

What do you think the 'movement'? Do you know anyone who is part of this movement? Are you, even though you are trying to lose weight?

I am obese. I am also perfectly healthy and quite physically fit. Obesity does not equate to disease or unhealth; if I decide to stay at this weight, that does not pose a risk to my health.

It is very important not to conflate obesity with disease. BMI is not a predictor of health, and that's one of the big messages of the FA movement.

We will just have to agree to disagree, as per policy!

I don't believe a obese person is at optimum health. I believe one can be obese and striving toward being physically fit, and I don't believe just because one is a 'normal' weight they are automatically healthy (lots of slim people are unhealthy!)... but it is hard for me to believe that one can be at optimum health and be carrying around 100lbs of extra fat.

JMO

But there's a difference between being not being at optimal health and being unhealthy, no? I don't know many people, obese or not, that are at optimal health.

I agree with this to an extent. There are numbers more indcative of overall health than the one on the scale...like cholesterol, blood sugar, blood pressure and oxygen saturation. But there does come a point where the number on the scale is so high that those other numbers are affected. Carrying extra weight can put a strain on lots of organs and muscles causing different health problems.

If I'm eating healthfully and excercising and weigh 200 lbs, I'm a lot better off than a sedentary person that eats greasy fast food every other day and weighs 130 lbs. Its about what you do, not really what you look like.

I also think it really, really, really sucks that overweight and obese people get picked on, made fun of, and just generally treated like poop because of their outward appearance. Whatever reason a person is overweight, they still deserve kindness and consideration. People that think we are not entitled to those things don't deserve those common courtesies themselves.

Getting off soapbox now.

I saw a Fat Acceptance demonstration in Philly awhile back and was quite pleased to see people I know at it. It was very fun. People dressed up in disco gear and danced up the Art Museum steps. People of every size was represented at the demo. I see the movement as accepting ourselves for who we are, no matter our size is.

I've been an activist in many different causes including disability rights so I appreciate how damaging stigma is. I think a lot of people would be surprised how much discrimination is out there against anybody who is "different." And one way to fight stigma is to reclaim the power and define the issue. Activists tend to be more loud and out front about things and do it on purpose because a lot of people aren't able or ready to speak out for themselves.

Fat acceptance is combating size discrimination openly and without hatred and judgement. It's not the answer for everybody, but I think they have something valuable to say.

Repeating that lest anyone think I said differently :)

My blood pressure is 104/62. That is low-normal.

My total cholesterol is 148 (normal). My HDL is 45 (borderline low-normal, but 2 years ago it was 25 so that's a vast improvement). My triglycerides are 69 (low end of normal). My LDL is 89 (normal). My cholesterol/HDL ratio is 3.3 (normal).

My nitrogen, creatinine, EGFR, and calcium are all normal.

My fasting glucose is 81--totally normal.

My protein, albumin, globulin, bilirubin, alkaline phosphatase, AST, ALT are all normal.

My sodium, potassium, and chloride are all normal.

My resting pulse is in the range of 60.

I can bike hard for an hour at a time. I can hike and climb. I can stand for 4 to 6 hours at a stretch. I can do hours of hard housework. I can lift weights (and do). I can do "real" push-ups.

Please tell me which part of all of that indicates to you that I am not optimally healthy. Could I be more athletic? Yes. But we are not talking about being athletic; we are talking about being healthy.

My numbers were all in that range at 315 and I could do everything you said too... can you explain what you are trying communicate? Having 150 lbs of fat hanging off my body is not healthy, no matter what my numbers indicate or what I can do :)

There are many good things about the FA Movement that I appreciate...the idea that overweight or obese people should not face discrimination, for example, or the idea that BMI is an overrated measure of an individual's health (although it does tend to represent group trends, it isn't indicative for all people and is overused, IMO, in guiding goal weights set by the medical community), as well as the idea that people can eat well and be physically active and still be overweight or obese by BMI. These are all good points to get out there, as is the idea that the medical community needs to consider obese or overweight people in general, not just their weight status, when determining treatment plans or making diagnoses...I had severe knee problems blown off as "due to weight" when, in reality, they were due to a congenital defect and eventually required surgery. All of these messages are important to get out there, and I feel like the FA Movement is the only real movement doing so right now.

That said, links between obesity and poor health outcomes, in general, are pretty well established (of course, this is the same as BMI in a lot of respects, the trend may exist across a population but might not apply to individuals, who can maintain a higher weight without negative health impact, so whether obesity is contributing to health problems in any individual can't be determined based on that statistic alone...it's just a trend). And I have read some pretty worrisome things about members of FA Movements being discouraged, ridiculed, etc for deciding to attempt to lose weight (even by adopting healthy habits and exercise), especially given that for MOST people (not all, again, because its just a trend), losing weight into a lower BMI range will lead to better long-term health. So there are negatives as well.

:) Interesting.

I'm 110% FOR the FA movement. Fact is, everyBODY deserves respect, and "fat hate" is the last acceptable discrimination. I'm fat, but I still want to look nice. I still want to be able to purchase clothing that fits my body, and I deserve to be treated kindly and with respect when out in public. I (speaking for all fat people, not just myself) deserve to find a good paying job without being discriminated against because I'm not a size 6. I could go on and on, but I doubt I need to, considering the audience.

Having said all that- yes, I am losing weight because I want to be the best ME I can be. I am more comfortable when I weigh 170-180 range, which is still "fat" for my height. I prefer the look and feel of what I consider to be a womanly body, and that body has more weight on it than most think is acceptable.

Annnnd gotta quote myself again just for clarity's sake...

While it's your choice to decide whether or not that is what works for you, it's not your choice to decide for another person. That is the message of the FA movement. There are, to my knowledge, absolutely no scientific studies that have been done on completely healthy obese people--of longevity or health outcomes. We do not know whether or not there are actually health risks. The statement that "it is not healthy" is dogma, not fact.

Heck, a lot of doctors will still tell you that eating cholesterol will raise your cholesterol, when we know that is just not true at all now. Dogma.

Also dogma. My joints are fine. So are my organs--as my numbers show.

I believe that we shouldn't judge people on their weight, I believe we shouldn't make fun of people for being overweight. But I don't believe when someone (like myself) has over 50+ lbs of excess fat on them that they are perfectly healthy.

All my numbers are AWESOME. Everything falls within ranges, and I can even go for a run or cycle now- but I know deep down I'm not as healthy as I could be.

I think if people were accepting of overweight individuals and didn't go around making fun of them or putting them on diets from the time they are able to walk, then people would have less issues with food. How many of us have said we'd eat when we were sad or upset because we were told we were fat or because our parents put us on diets?

Yes, but it's counter productive. The FA's goal is to stop discrimination.

(not to imply that naafa is the only FA group, just the one I chose to quote)

So saying how do you feel about the FA movement, and then making it about something other than acceptance is confusing.

Higher fat content, ironically, was linked to weaker bones, which are more prone to fractures. Really no getting around the damage you are doing to your body no matter how healthy you feel.

I don't think we have any proof that there is a certain weight or body fat percentage that will give you optimal health as health is such a mixture of things. I do believe you can be overweight and healthy.

Although I will say excess weight can put stress on your joints as evidenced by the fact that I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis at the age of 30. Although exercise has kept my knee issues at bay for the most part and I've even done things like running pain free. Of course I had to lose 150 lbs to do it :)

Each person's health is very individual and you can't say 'you are overweight therefore you are unhealthy' because that just isn't true. Health isn't black and white in terms of either you are healthy or you aren't. You can be in pretty good health with room for improvement but I wouldn't call you unhealthy.

Now there may be some issues that arise due to weight but a lot of health issues come due to your diet and lack of activity which can cause obesity and are things that are related to poor health. So is it a case that someone who is obese is automatically unhealthy? Or is it unhealthy habits that cause obesity and poor health? Also there are some genetic components to overall health as well.

What are your credentials?

One:

I never said being a normal weight automatically made someone healthy.

Two:

I never said overweight people should be treated with anything less than respect.


I don't "accept" my fat. If the best person I can be is someone who stuffed herself up to 315lbs, I don't accept that. I won't.

Now someone is going to come along and assert that (most) people don't become obese by overeating and lack of movement...

I really feel the tension in this place. I thought we were all in this together and we came here for encouragement!! I do not feel that from this thread. It reminds me of people debating politics or religion...........

Duplicate post.

Yeah I did think we were all in this together. I stupidly joined a site dedicated to weight loss and had the nerve to assert that being morbidly obese may be less than optimum for health.

My mistake!

Everyone calm down :D

MyBestYear - you asked a question, "What do you think of the FA Movement", and you're certainly getting a wide variety of responses, based on all different perspectives. My own answer to your question was somewhere in the middle, and you have answers on either sides. One of the underlying notions in the FA Movement is that obesity is not necessarily the cause in and of itself of many of the health problems with which it is associated, so it's natural that that concept would be debated a bit as well.

It's OK to have different opinions on this (though I am going to move the thread over to "General Chatter" since it is less about support and more about discussion)...we're all coming from our own perspective. One of the great things about 3FC is the variety of viewpoints we have, even though we're all here for a common goal.

I don't think it's like that at all. I'm sorry you feel that way, though. :hug:

Everyone has their own opinions, and this is a hot topic, especially for a group of fat chicks!

Discrimination and knowing right and wrong are two different things. We all know the drawback of being overweight and I'm sure people who lose the weight are screaming because they want everyone to strive for the freedom being fit brings them. Some people just need a wake up call. It takes time. If you want to stay overweight you might be in the wrong forum.

I think discussion about weight and weight loss is a good thing. We may have slightly differing opinions but that is how things go :)

We also have opinions based on our own experiences and of course some of the issues arise with the fact that things like BMI aren't a good measure of health but they are how we measure whether we are overweight, obese, morbidly obese or beyond.

And of course studies in terms of health and weight tend to be inconclusive although there are plenty of reasons to look at weight and weight loss.

For me, one of my own struggles is that I've lost 150 lbs and I'm happy with my weight even though I'm officially obese. And as I said before, health is a very individual thing much as weight is a very individual thing. Someone may feel disgusted if they weighed as much as me while I'm thrilled.

To be honest, I have mixed feelings. I do think that people shouldn't be judged and any form of discrimination is wrong, whether is has to do with sex, color, national origin, sexuality, and weight. I find it sad that as a country we are so insecure with ourselves and instead of embracing differences, we belittle others to ward off our own sense of inadequacy.
People of size should not be made to feel inferior, but then again don't we dictate our own feelings?
Weight and health are two completely different issues, what body size works for one person doesn't work for another. We shouldn't try to put everyone in the same box, not only is it counter-productive...quite frankly it's boring.
I think if we just treated people, all people, the way we want to be treated, we wouldn't have a need of any acceptance movement.
I've met people in my life, smaller than me and bigger than me, but what makes a person beautiful and attractive isn't their outside, it's their inside.
Is being morbidly obese the optimum choice for health, well no but being an insensitive, crude jerk isn't optimum for health either.
It's all about what works for each person and as human beings, our real job is to embrace our fellow man, regardless of their color, sexual orientation or weight.
Just my thoughts

I'm not sure why you, OP, are getting so defensive because some people here disagree with you on a couple of things. The fact is, if you don't feel healthy the way you are, you can change it. Other people asserting that they are healthy at their current weight is not meant as an affront to you, nor is you suggesting that you are not healthy at your current weight an affront to anyone else. The problem is that there are many people that claim that, across the board, overweight people are not healthy, and that they are not healthy because of their obesity. However, correlation does not equal causation. What that means is that if studies show that overweight indivuduals are X times more likely to die of, say, heart failure it doesn't meant that those overweight people are more likely to die BECAUSE of their weight. They might be more likely to die because they eat more processed foods, or get less aerobic excercise, or are more likely to smoke, or any number of things. It could also mean that people who have heart problems become overweight in part because of those heart problems. In any case, none of that really matters to the issue of Fat Acceptance. As a PP mentioned, FA isn't about saying "all fat people are healthy" or "there are no risks associated with obesity." It's about telling people, in general, that a persons weight is none of anyone else's business. Since you stated that you don't feel like overweight people should be treated poorly because of their weight, then you agree with FA. To say otherwise is like women who say they aren't feminists, but think women should have the same rights as men.

I don't agree choosing obesity is a healthy lifestyle choice.

I feel very ambivalent about only one faction of FA (the part that accomodates fat and feeder fetishists). I think the NAACP would have been in trouble if it had embraced white men interested only in having sex with non-white partners.

Finding FA though saved my sanity, if not my life. Learning that I didn't have to think about myself the way everyone else seemed to -the way I was taught to. Fat may not be great, but I am. Crash dieting was not healthy and was not a virtue. Getting the fat off by any means (even those that were extremely unhealthy and even dangerous) was not acceptable.

How much "extra" weight starts to cause health problems? How much IS "extra?" Does "extra" weight provide (or is it associated with) any health advantages?

I've found that these questions piss people off. Even a tiny bit "extra" (like 5 and 10 lbs) is often seen as a health concern, when there's no evidence that this is true. The leanest humans are not the healthiest. A study that found that slightly "overweight" people live longer than any other weight group was met with an outcry of angry responses to the study because it "encouraged" people to stop striving for an "ideal" weight (who the heck gets to decide ideal anyway? Well in this country the insurance companies, the fashion, movie and film industries and the tabloid media, apparently).

From the arguments used to criticise me most of my life, I've come to the conclusion that most people couldn't care less about health (except to use it as a weapon). No one cares that I'm not healthy - they only care that I'm ugly (to them). I'm "supposed to" feel crappy about myself and that's all that matters. Any time I am obviously happy about myself (having nothing to do with my fat) someone always has to point out that I shouldn't be happy because I'm fat (and sadly so often, the person throwing that argument is fat or was fat - and usually is female).

I can't help but think that when the ONLY legitimate argument against obesity is TRULY health, the obesity problem would be much easier to address. In the history of medical, psychiatric and mental treatment - success really only began when the stigma and judgments started to change. In the early years, addiction and mental health problems, people didn't seek treatment for fear of the stigma. It's almost like the predator's instinctive response - hide your weakness or your fellow predators will tear you apart. If you go further back, before medical treatment was common place (when illness was caused by "demons" or immoral living) people hid medical issues also.

You can't hide fat, except by hiding. It's no longer socially acceptable to hide away our mentally ill and handicapped relatives, but it is still socially acceptable for fat folks to be hidden. It's even encouraged. Fat people face some of the worst criticism when they're seen in public trying to do something about it. I've gotten more dirty looks, nasty noises and comments and outright hostility not when eating an ice cream cone, but when eating a salad ("who is she kidding," said very loudly), dancing (Gawd, she looks ridiculous), and when exercising or doing other activities that fat people aren't supposed to be seen doing.

I've even had women flirt with my husband in front of my face, because they think I'm no competition (My husband and I share a lot in common, he's also fat, extremely sociable and funny. It just shows that the stigma against fat men isn't quite the same as it is for women).

I've also been told in a variety of ways (enough times to be extremely saddened by it) that I'm "not like other fat people." Every time, it was meant as a compliment, but I see it as the ultimate proof of descrimination. Fat is so bad, that anyone who isn't lazy, crazy, selfish, stupid, incompetent and smelly is the "exception" to the rule.

I know many of you have heard this many times, but once, in response to my making a comment about being fat (I think it was about not being able to find nice business clothes in my size) a coworker told me "you're not fat."

I weighed nearly 400 lbs at the time, OF COURSE I WAS FAT. I started laughing (hysterical, pee yourself, laughing). My coworker got embarassed and snapped "you know what I mean."

Sadly, yes I do. Fat is such a horrible, terrible, evil thing to be that an intelligent, successful, funny, sociable woman had to be something else - certainly not (hushed whisper of horror) FAT.

Saddest of all, is the defensiveness with which our society reacts to the very idea of destigmafying fat. We're encouraged to be "tolerant" of most deviances (even unhealthy ones) except obesity. Jumping out of airplanes and swimming with sharks, sex "addicts" having unprotected sex with sexually transmitted diseases - these are all (proven by research) seen more sympathetically than obesity. Fat rape victims have the least "success" in getting their rapist's put away (I guess they were "lucky" to get any male attention at all). When a rapist gets more sympathy than a fat woman, something is terribly wrong.

The superficiality of the human race sometimes disgusts me (attractive rapists are more likely to be judged not guilty than ugly ones. Rapists that are more attractive than their victims even more so. I guess rape isn't that bad if your attacker is cuter than you are).

Sometimes people suck.

I can't dwell on the evil in the world, whether it's aimed at fat or something else, but I can fight it. I can stand up for myself and I can refuse to allow the world to convince me that I'm supposed to hate myself. I'm not going to do it, and I'm going to do what I can to help others not fall for the lies in that message either.

I especially hate though when "health" is used as a stick to beat someone with (especially when the beater has many lifestyle-induced health problems of their own).

It isn't about hate for me though. I love myself lots - but I see my obesity as a result of not loving myself enough to care for my body -- so I don't *accept* that.

I used to work with someone who was militantly FA. She was overweight and completely happy with herself, her life, her choices. She was very hard to be around because when those of us who were being health conscious or even *gasp* dieting would be discussing things (our last weigh-in, our poor choices in clothing, etc.) she would make disparaging comments. "You should be happy the way you are, why do you think you need to lose weight, why are you worrying so much about something so stupid, etc. etc." We were all in the same boat, but she was HAPPY to be the captain of this vessel, and upset with us because we weren't as happy as she was.

To me it felt like she was discriminating against us.

I wish there was a SELF Acceptance movement. How many of us have said at a lower weight or even a perfectly healthy weight, "I hate my thighs. I hate my stomach. I hate my __________!" It's almost as if we, as women, are pre-programmed to hate our bodies and be ashamed of them no matter what we look like. That's what I'd like to see change. . .:?:

Ok, so maybe the question should be...what about yourself didn't you like so much you abused your body, mind, and spirit to get where you are?
I had to ask myself the same questions, so I'm not asking out of spite or anger or trickery.
For me, I'm a rape survivor and being big provided me safety.

This is the thing about the FA movement that makes me most uncomfortable. It's a WONDERFUL message to say "Regardless of your size, treat your body well and love yourself - you can be healthy even if you don't adhere to a media ideal, and your self-worth isn't determined by your weight". But it gets ugly when that message turns into "If you want to lose weight you don't love yourself enough"...which to me, was the opposite of my experience...I first realized that I was worthy/good enough at my highest weight, that I had value, and then I decided that I was SO valuable that I was worth taking better care of.

If being overweight is good for you, and you are healthy then why do you (and me) continue to lose weight? I do agree that EVERYONE should be treated with respect and equal rights whether they are healthy or not.

Once a doctor said this to me, "look around at an old people's home full of 90 year olds, you'll see plenty living that still smoke, you'll see plenty with cancer or Alzheimer's, but you wont see one that is obese..."

Not sure how accurate he was, but that stuck with me for some reason.

I'm exploring those questions daily :)

Yes, you've said that. I'm just not sure what that has to do with the Fat Acceptance movement in general.

warmaiden - i'm not sure i really understand your position fully. you say that you are in optimal health and physically fit. so why are you here? why are you trying to lose weight at all? if your current body shape and fitness is perfect, i honestly don't know why you're trying to lose weight or coming here to 3 fat chicks at all. :?:

This is something i completely agree with. I think there are some people who claim to be part of the FA movement that are just as bad as anyone else when it comes to judging people based on their weight.

I saw plenty of obese old people at my grandma's nursing home.

I agree with the basic message of the fat acceptance movement (or how I perceive it), that people should not be discriminated against or treated poorly because of their weight. I would rather the movement be identified more as a Body Acceptance, though, and include those of all weights and body types.

I strongly disagree with the statement that one can be obese and in great health. I’m sorry, that is just my personal standpoint and just as I feel free to disagree with others, they can feel free to disagree with me. (This does not mean that I believe that the obese person in the room is by default the unhealthiest.) Excess weight is exactly that…excess. It is unnecessary, useless baggage and pressure on our bodies. I do believe that being overweight inhibits natural body functions and prevents a person from reaching their utmost potential health. I’ve been obese and am now considered overweight. And I have seen great improvements in my overall health and I believe that I will continue to see those as I lose the last 20 pounds.

Most people are not as healthy as they could be. We all have things that we could improve on and areas that we need to work on. This goes for those of us who are overweight or obese and those who are underweight or considered a normal weight.