I think a test would be perfect. All college students take a math placement test at the beginning of freshman year (at most universities anyhow). So why not offer a health/fitness knowledge test and require the class for those with low scores?
I think if they made this class a requirement for everyone it'd be a great idea! Like a gen ed or something... even students who are too busy to work out regularly would still have an opportunity, and people would be learning more about being active in general. I think singling out people based on BMI is a HUGE mistake, but that the idea itself is smart (and should be applied to everyone).
I wonder why many bemoan the lack of health education and fitness education and nutritional education and use it as a reason for our nation's obesity yet when a college tries to DO something about this in an educational sense, they complain just as loudly?
Last edited by misskimothy; 12-03-2009 at 12:25 PM.
I wonder why many bemoan the lack of health education and fitness education and nutritional education and use it as a reason for our nation's obesity yet when a college tries to DO something about this in an educational sense, they complain just as loudly?
Because they did it badly.
And because there's a big difference between grade school and college.
I didn't read all of the comments so I apologize if someone already said this- but BMI is a flawed system. It doesn't take into account muscle mass. For instance, at one point in his career, Michael Jordan had a BMI that would classify him as obese, so did Sammy Sosa and Arnold Schwarzanegger.
Does this mean that athletes who were muscular would be exempt from this class? This is where the problem sets in- because at that point it becomes discriminatory.
For myself, my BMI is above 30. However, at 5'2, according to BMI, I could be 105 pounds and be a 'normal' weight. I can tell you as someone who has lived in my body for 22 years, that is preposterous. I am tiny, but I am very muscular. I always have been. I have calves that are all muscle, and bigger around than my mountain climbing friends and biking friends. I've always been very strong, and my male and female friends are shocked at some of the things I can carry/lift...my boyfriend's mother, who is pretty fit and healthy as a horse at 50 or so, always makes him carry the kitty litter to the upstairs bathroom where it is kept. One day when I was helping her bring the groceries in, I brought them up, one in each hand. She was absolutely shocked- those litter barrells weighed 30 pounds each...
Anyway, I got off on a tangent, but the point is, a healthy weight for me, even according to my doctor is 150 lbs...which still puts me at a 27.
BMI doesn't work, and it shouldn't be the deciding factor. I think they have the right idea...but why not just have everyone take a fitness class like my college does? Can a fitness class hurt someone who is already in shape anyway?
Julie raises an interesting point --When is education too late to start? College level education is too late? By this rationale, post-graduation/public health education for the general adult population is also a waste? If education is an important aspect of obesity prevention and treatment, why argue against a college that is trying to educate? Graduation isn't linked to weight loss there, just to making sure that their students are able to make an informed decision about their lifestyle choices. So why is this bad? Health and nutritional education is provided in public health situations to adults who are obese regardless of age. This is just another avenue of education.
It seems to me that there are no perfect solutions. At least this is a start in an area which most agree is key to the prevention and curing of obesity.
Last edited by misskimothy; 12-03-2009 at 12:58 PM.
Julie raises an interesting point --When is education too late to start? College level education is too late? By this rationale, post-graduation/public health education for the general adult population is also a waste?
Uh, no, that's just silly, isn't it?
But you have to approach a 10-year old much differently than an adult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by misskimothy
If education is an important aspect of obesity prevention and treatment, why argue against a college that is trying to educate?
I don't think most of the argument is again a college trying to educate, it's against they way they are doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by misskimothy
Graduation isn't linked to weight loss there, just to making sure that their students are able to make an informed decision about their lifestyle choices. So why is this bad?
Again, the point isn't that it's bad to " make sure that their students are able to make an informed decision about their lifestyle choices." The point is they are not doing that. Students with a high BMI may in fact be healthier than those that are "skinny," and they certainly may already have more knowledge that a class may impart, and the skinny students may have less of that knowledge. It's actually rather ironic and sad that it's an institute of higher learning that is making these kind of silly logical mistakes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by misskimothy
Health and nutritional education is provided in public health situations to adults who are obese regardless of age. This is just another avenue of education.
They aren't "providing" it, they are requiring only certain students to take a class, and their logic behind that selection is poor. If all they wanted to do was provide education, it should be a general requirement for all students.
Quote:
Originally Posted by misskimothy
It seems to me that there are no perfect solutions. At least this is a start in an area which most agree is key to the prevention and curing of obesity.
It's good to try. But it's perfectly valid, and in fact necessary, to critique them when they get it *so* wrong.
How do we know it is "so" wrong? Where are the studies? What have the end results been? What has been the 1,2,5,10 year result?
I still think that education at all levels is key. Clearly college level courses are geared towards their clientelle, so the assumption that they are not being taught appropriately is flawed. Having this as a prerequisite for a diploma is no different than having students take an english assessment before studies can be continued. No one said the college approach was perfect, but the concept is a great one.
The students could of course choose to go to a different college if they disagree with this school's policy.
I just don't understand how on a supportive weight LOSS site there is so much resistance to this educational initiative which may assist in losing weight?!
'Nuf said. SO done!
Last edited by misskimothy; 12-03-2009 at 01:25 PM.
How do we know it is "so" wrong? Where are the studies? What have the end results been? What has been the 1,2,5,10 year result?
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're getting at.
Are you saying we don't know that many people with higher BMIs are healthy, that many people with higher BMIs know a great deal about nutrition, exercise and health, and that many people with low BMI have bad lipids and abdominal fat, and that many people with low BMI know very little or have wrong ideas about nutrition, exercise and health?
Quote:
Originally Posted by misskimothy
I still think that education at all levels is key. Clearly college level courses are geared towards their clientelle, so the assumption that they are not being taught appropriately is flawed.
I think you're ignoring what I've been saying, it's rather strange - I said n nothing about how the course is taught. I said it's quite flawed how they are selecting who takes the course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by misskimothy
Having this as a prerequisite for a diploma is no different than having students take an english assessment before studies can be continued.
No, I do not think that is comparable. An english assessment would cover a wide range of knowledge and skills. They are only measuring BMI, which is a poor substitute to determining health or lack of it, and a ridiculous substitute for determining knowledge or lack of it.
I think the class (even that it's required) is FANTASTIC - but I think it needs to mandatory for all the students, not just the fatties.
There's no way to know whether the thin students will be future-obese, since many people gain weight in their late 20's, 30's, or later middle age.
Singling out the high-BMI students isn't the most logical, effective, or responsible way to go about it. It also sends the very erroneous message that the lower-BMI students must be "doing something right," or that they have some knowledge that the high-BMI students don't have, when it's possible (and I would argue, probable) that their eating habits and health knowledge aren't any better than the high-BMI students.
It's short-sighted (and a bit condescending and punitive) to single out the currently-obese students, when many nof the thinner students may just be "not-yet-obese." Who does it harm to make the class mandatory for ALL students?
i guess maybe it hurts the college if they can't afford to have everyone take the class?
after reading everyone's responses I think that the best way they could run this is to do a placement test- for everyone - just like math or English- and if you don't make it- then you take the class.
i definitely don't take issue with a required health and fitness class- i do take issue with singling out the obese students.
i guess maybe it hurts the college if they can't afford to have everyone take the class?
I suppose it's possible, but if everyone is taking the course, the college shouldn't lose money on it, as the tuition generally covers those costs (and then some). They could need more faculty, but generally part-time factulty are cheap (often offensively underpaid, in comparison to full-time faculty).
But, if there are financial, faculty, or space issues that prevent the college from requiring the course of all students, there's got to be a fairer system than BMI.
They need their naps. Cookies at school, not so much.
