This convo is getting no where...Do you know why? Because we arent even listening to eachother...Debates only get resoled when you try and understand the other persons side...We are polarized on our opinions....Nothing is getting accomplished....so heres my last post...

to sunflower...I get your point we should work towards goals but some of us cant and wont...Not because we dont want to...some dont have the will...Working toward goals take courage and strength..She is not thinking clearly and she doesnt know she is in the amount of trouble she is in...If she is "unstable" then like MANY other seriously mentally ill she cant see it...thats how mental illness works...atleast the more serious ones....the personality effecting ones...Some people dont get whats wrong with them..

To helwa588...yep she should have left them frozen....what she was thinking we will never know...she didnt want to give them away..I get that..I was 16 and had a baby I didnt want to have my baby grow up with someone else...And abortion isnt ever something I would consider...

To..Juliast...She should want help but like I said she may not know she really needs it...Some cant see reality..to understand this you have to realize that our minds can make us crazy or sane...this si so true...my inlwas are nutts! lol...She shouldn give the stuff she gets away but she seems paranoid and maybe she thinks they are contaminated..who knows...

To Harismm...Im sorry if I spelled that wrong...I get your point...but sadly this isnt our countries way..it is easier to say mean things than to just observe..I observe...its not my life...If in fact she is very mentally ill then she needs to get help but if she doesnt want it then like you said she may have something VERY wrong with her....My mother has bipolar disorder but she is getting worse...she doesnt admit it and she cant see what we see..I wish she could but that reality...Some dont see things how we do...our minds are different and what works for you may not work for the next person...

thank you.

i was a single mom when i was in my early twenties and BELIEVE me, if someone had been offering me free food and diapers, etc, i wouldve taken it in a heartbeat. when you decide to have children, you dont get to be focused on yourself any more. you CHOSE to have them/keep them and in doing so you (should) realize that your choices dont get to be all about you anymore. if someone is giving you free diapers and you feel embarrassed about it, you have to say to yourself, "whats more important? my pride (or whatever her reasoning is)? or my kid?" if her answer to those questions are not "my childs best interests", then she needs to have the kids put in foster care with families who have better priorities.

i also find it interesting that she seems to put all her worries up to God, which is fine, but does it never occur to her that maybe God's way of helping her is to have people offering her all these things? maybe God WONT just have a pile of diapers and food and toys magically appear in her living room. its like people who get sick and say their faith will cure them.. well, maybe God will cure them by having them find the right doctor and medicine. you gotta take SOME initiative!

And that's a huge criticism of Octomom... she basically had a hoard of children because she was "lonely" as a child. That's selfish. And to not keep donations because of some kind of pride issue... that's selfish. When you have kids, or a kid, you are not longer the most important thing, your kids are.

The thing is too, about people relying on God for help, there's this joke:

~There was a man called him Jim, who lived near a river. Jim was a very religious man.

One day, the river rose over the banks and flooded the town, and Jim was forced to climb onto his porch roof. While sitting there, a man in a boat comes along and tells Jim to get in the boat with him. Jim says "No, that's ok. God will take care of me." So, the man in the boat drives off.

The water rises, so Jim climbs onto his roof. At that time, another boat comes along and the person in that one tells Jim to get in. Jim replies, "No, that's ok. God will take care of me." The person in the boat then leaves.

The water rises even more, and Jim climbs on his chimney. Then a helicopter comes and lowers a ladder. The woman in the helicopter tells Jim to climb up the ladder and get in. Jim tells her "That's ok." The woman says "Are you sure?" Jim says, "Yeah, I'm sure God will take care of me.

Finally, the water rises too high and Jim drowns. Jim gets up to Heaven and is face-to-face with God. Jim says to God "You told me you would take care of me!
What happened?"

God replied "Well, I sent you two boats and a helicopter. What else did you want?"

I think that's so wonderful that Nadya Suleman has faith in God... but I honestly believe that since she still has so many people willing to help her and she won't take their help, she is a fool. God does not magically appear and give help.... God works through other people in mysterious ways. It's like when I got sick with thyroid cancer.... I could have just sat in my room and prayed that the tumor and cancer would go away, and have faith in God that way, but I didn't. I went to the doctor, had surgery, and that's how God helped me. I honestly have nothing against religious people who refuse medical treatment, I just think that God works in more subtle ways now.