[dragonwoman64]

Originally Posted by kiramira

Yes/no...

My shortest post EVER!!!



Kira

Kira, you're too funny. it did strike me as a q that possibly could lead to answers that could go on forever (in my mind, at least). so complicated and personal. yes/no. liked that very much.

[lizziep]

i just watched Religious this week. It was very good. Also good is Zeitgeist which I think is a more serious view on the same subject.

[luvja]

I am baptised Anglican (as a baby, I had no choice), however I am not religious. I do believe there is a God though. One love, baby!

[bargoo]

I agree with EZMoney. I have had and have experiences in my life that cause me to know there is a GOD . Not only do I know there is a GOD , I know that I know.

[EZMONEY]

Originally Posted by kiramira

No problem, Mr. EZ!
Just trying to be appropriate and respectful to all, which I'm sure you appreciate...
Kira

I certainly do! Thanks for the look-out, I would be in a real mess if it wasn't for my friends here that "watch my back" for me

[EZMONEY]

Originally Posted by bargoo

... I have had and have experiences in my life that cause me to know there is a GOD . Not only do I know there is a GOD , I know that I know.

Which is why, even though your situation in life is not as we would wish at the moment, I know that "WE" 3FC buddies are at peace as much as we can be.....knowing the final outcome for "US"...no matter when, will be glorious!

[harrismm]

Knowing is interesting to me.I am a free thinker and surely respect you all that "know".I am a see it to believe it gal.I think that is exactly why I dont believe.I have never seen anything to make me believe.I have been in the medical profession for 15 years.And the things I have seen have convinced me that it does not exist.There are no miracles.None at all.Few people beat the odds.Thats the truth.And when they do, its a small percentage that is predictable in every disease process and diagnosis.Simple and scientific.

[EZMONEY]

HARRISMM ~

Please understand that I mean absolutely no dis-respect when I say what I am about to say.

When Christians say that "we know" it is because we do. As I mentioned before, if Christ is not in your heart you cannot know...but for those of us that have Christ in our hearts...well...we do! We TOTALLY understand each other. It is a gift we want to share with everyone...but trying to we upset people along the way sometimes....and sometimes we PRAISE God for the Glory as another one comes to Him.

It is not something we "feel" with our minds or something we see with our eyes. We have the power of the HOLY SPIRIT living in us! If a person is not a Christian then they do not have it....it is impossible for them to "feel" what we feel and know.

We suffer...we have children die...we die....we have prayers asked that we feel are unanswered here on Earth. We also have prayers answered...we have children live! We live through amazing circumstances.....some die far too young...others live forever it seems...

What Christians know is that our ways are not God's ways...what Christians know is that our lives here on Earth are short.

We want all people that are/were good people to be healed....but our ways are not God's ways. We lean not on our own understanding but on the promise of eternal life, through His Son.

It is a promise that comforts us through very tough times in our lives. A promise we know is true.

I can understand that one who is not a Christian would doubt that Christians "know"...but Christians do not doubt each other for one second that they "know" certain things...because, as I said...it is in our hearts...not our minds.

May Peace Be With You ~ Gary

[harrismm]

None taken, trust me.I am very respectful of your beliefs.I have many family and friends that believe as you do.I simply dont.I understand that our time on this earth is short, I see it every day.Which truly makes me try and enjoy every day here.None of us are getting out alive.Religion is interesting to me because Its interesting to study human beings, just as people who are in cults.I could seriously write a book about people I have met over the years who have done some very crazy things for their religious beliefs or cult beliefs.It bewilders and amazes me.I see people refuse life saving medical treatments because it goes against their religious beliefs.It makes me question what sort of god would want to see people suffer and die before their "time".I am pro-choice.100%!We all have a right to either believe or not.I am sure I will spend the rest of my life listening and learning.I personally belong to the religion of "I dont know".And I am at peace with that.

[CountingDown]

Originally Posted by harrismm

None of us are getting out alive.

In a nutshell, you have articulated the difference between my belief system and yours.

I KNOW that I AM getting out alive.

Forever

[harrismm]

Yes.You are correct.I know that when I take my last breath...........thats all she wrote.

[LandonsBaby]

Yes, I believe in God and I strive for a good relationship with Him.

[Justwant2Bhealthy]

GEE BARGOO ~ we should compare our experiences sometime. I have only shared them with a very few people (like my DH) becuz people are so skeptical and are always trying to explain them away; but mine are so unique and real to me, that they convinced me that GOD exists, so I can honestly say that 'I know becuz I know becuz I know that HE exists' ...

EZ ~ I think you have to want to believe first; and be open to believing, so that GOD can reveal himself to you thru his Son, JESUS. I agree that the heart is the door to our soul/spirit; hence why He said 'I stand at the door (of your heart) and knock; if anyone opens the door and lets me in, I will come ...' They just have to ask, but why are so many reluctant to do that? I'm glad I believe; I'm glad I know; I'm glad to have this great hope! I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to know or believe in GOD ...

HARRISMM ~ At first I was surprised to hear that during 15 years as a nurse, that you never saw any miracles, but then I think it depends where you work. I have seen a few interesting things in my life; plus several people in my family have beat the odds and overcome cancer (one uncle has had prostrate, colon, and lung cancer and is still alive, even though his oncologist doesn't understand why; while we believe in prayer and miracles).

Like I said to EZ, I think you have to be open to believing and then ask GOD to show you that HE exists. Like Bargoo, I have had many awesome experiences in my life that verified to me that GOD and Jesus and Angels exist. There are thousands (if not millions) of people worldwide that have heard and seen and experienced things that helped them believe; and that is why so many millions do believe. Why some people have these experiences and others don't, may have something to do with our 'will' like EZ says.

Are you willing to believe in GOD? Are you willing to ask JESUS to reveal himself to you? Are you willing to consider the possibility that they do exist? Are you willing to look past people's flaws and go to GOD Himself?

I hear a common complaint throughout this thread: other people turned me off GOD (and religion) by their words or behavior. I try not to judge GOD and JESUS by human standards -- GOD is so big and powerful that HE couldn't fit into our livingrooms, so why would we judge GOD by a mere human being?

So ... if I'm a good Christian, you'll believe in God? But if I'm a bad Christian, you won't believe in God? Remember that a Christian is just a 'FOLLOWER of CHRIST' -- we are not GOD himself; we are not perfect; we are just forgiven, imperfect human beings, who are trying to do the best we can, with GOD's help!

Someone asked ... Where is GOD? I wrote a poem once with that very question. The answer I found in the Word (the Bible) -- HE is right where HE is supposed to be ~ on HIS throne ~ keeping the world and all the universes in place; directing and creating and supervising and healing and helping and waiting, like any Supreme Being might do ...

If I thought that we and this earth were created by a combination of the big bang, omnipotent thought, and evolution -- would that change anything? 'One day can be a thousand years' the bible says ...

If I thought that GOD sent all religious leaders to this earth to teach man over time and in all places, culminating with JESUS, the fulfillment of all religious thought -- would that change anything? 'I am the way, the truth, and the life' He says ...

Are we limiting GOD to our intellect; our pea-brained minds; by our knowledge; by our limited powers; and by our limited standards of perfection??? I suspect, that we could not even comprihend the massive size of GOD's power and mind and knowledge ... but the size of some people's egos never seizes to amaze me!

No, I'm not trying to proselytize, but if by answering someone's questions, someone else should find a glimmer of hope for all eternity, then I won't mind.
Sorry, if I got off topic too much or rambled on too long; but I just had to add some more food for thought to some of the things I was reading on this thread, which is very thought provoking, I must say ... and I enjoyed it immensely!

[Frigg]

Why some people have these experiences and others don't, may have something to do with our 'will' like EZ says.

I was always it was up to God's will, not ours. Wont he just do as he pleases, whether to the faithful or the nonbeliever?

There are many of us who have been quite open to [the Christian] God's existence who have yet to see him reveal himself. I was raised in a very religious home and believed all my life without question. After a while I realized I never had a personal experience with that God. I prayed quite frequently and asked for signs. I was not opposed to his existence--quite the opposite--I already believed. But after a long while of this I felt like I was talking to the ceiling as a prayed. Can you honestly blame the human in stances like these for not believing? It seemed odd to continue believing in something that never once acknowledge me. They do say, "God works in mysterious ways", so if he does exist I certainly can imagine that. I don't think it really has anything to do with whether not the person is just open or not. It's quite condescending to assume so.

It wasn't until I turned to another god that I immediately got some communication. (Finally!) For a while I was bitter toward the Christian god, but got over it.. We just didn't work out I guess. But am bothered by how it's always the people trying to convert you who have to share their all miraculous stories. I converted to my present faith largely because of my own odd experience, but it's something I like to keep to myself because it's personal. Nobody would ever believe me anyway, and I'm not interested in converts. Plus it would be a little dishonest to present it as if I knew it were factually a miraculous event.. I'm skeptical of that myself. I just don't like the attitude that I have to accept other people's miracles and then convert because of them.. If a god wants to show itself, it will, but it will be a personal event that can only concern that individual.

So ... if I'm a good Christian, you'll believe in God? But if I'm a bad Christian, you won't believe in God?

This is my point of view-- I was always taught that the Christian God changes peoples lives. He's supposed to fill you with joy and hope and make you a better person. Poor behavior is not so much an argument against God in particular, but it is for Christianity. If I don't see Christians behaving any differently than people of any other persuasion, then why should I become a Christian? It seems like I could just do what works best for me.

[Primm]

Originally Posted by Justwant2Bhealthy

HARRISMM ~ At first I was surprised to hear that during 15 years as a nurse, that you never saw any miracles, but then I think it depends where you work. I have seen a few interesting things in my life; plus several people in my family have beat the odds and overcome cancer (one uncle has had prostrate, colon, and lung cancer and is still alive, even though his oncologist doesn't understand why; while we believe in prayer and miracles).

That depends on how you look at it, I suppose. In my 23 years as a nurse I've never seen anything that I would describe as a miracle. I never cease to be amazed at the power of the human body to regenerate and heal itself, and I can't explain some of the people I've met who by rights shouldn't be alive.

But I put them down to our lack of understanding of science. I certainly don't believe that they are due to divine intervention or anything like that.

If there were someone up there pulling the strings, he/she/it certainly has a pretty warped sense of humour. I've seen people who are the strongest of strong believers knocked down in the prime of their lives, leaving loved ones and small children. And I've seen babies born with horrendous brain injuries, who will be going home with parents who you absolutely know aren't capable of looking after them. And you're saying this is deliberate? Wow.

Anyway, I'll stop before I get carried away. Each to their own, like I said before. I have no problem with people spreading the word of their beliefs (hi Gary!) as long as you accept that I have my own beliefs, and that I am more than prepared to defend my right to hold them.

Live your own life the way you want. Just don't expect me to live like that as well.