RYANNE ~ Thanks for seeing I was trying to be helpful.

My daughter, as a teen-ager 13-16, used to babysit in the nursery at the Sunday School hour and second service. I usually go to first service. Anyway I would check in to see if her helper had shown up...sometimes not, if she needed another set of eyes I would stay and help. It didn't happen all the time but sometimes the little ones wanted mommy of course. Because we know the parents dropped the kids off so they could attend church and Sunday School w/o them we really tried hard to turn the kid around. We do have a cry room in our sanctuary where parents can see everything but they are in room where the people in the sanctuary can't see them (unless they turn around) or hear them...kids are also always welcomed in church itself but some place them in the nursery and others prefer the cry room.

My wife is a school teacher, for a couple of years they asked her and my teen-age daughter if they would run the Summer Day School...mostly fun field trips...for $$$ of course. This was at a time when my daughter was saving $$$ for college expenses so they jumped at it. Well, one day the trip was to the beach. A note was sent home for parents to sunscreen the kids...my wife would re-coat the kids....anyway they asked every kid and every kid said yes, they were sunscreened....well one kid wasn't...he got a bad sunburn! I was livid when I found out...more so than the mom (also a family friend)...anyway...another example of something going wrong unintentionally. The kid went on to be a star... for a day... the Jay Leno Show...so all is well.

Be hopeful ~ Gary

My parents took me to a baptist church while I was growing up. When I got older, I would hear the pastor say things like: "Those who don't attend this church will burn." I would look around and see none of my school friends, no one else from my family except my parents....I would think quietly to myself: "So everyone else I know is going to ****? Just because they don't go to this church?" I eventually got pretty sick in my stomach and just stopped going all together. I haven't been to church since. I married my hubby who isn't a believer and I just kinda went along with him.

I stopped believing for a while...Just got caught up in life and avoided any thought that leaned that way. My biggest confusion was: What about the people who were generally good. Never murdered, never cheated on their significant other, never raped or stolen anything...would they go to **** just because they didn't believe in God? My DH is a good man and I just can't see him burning because of his belief that the big bang created us all and there really is no god.

One day I just panicked. The thought of dying and there being NOTHING afterwards scared me too much. I remembered how comforted I was in believing that there was a heaven, and all the people I've lost over the years were there watching over me. Just being able to talk to God throughout my day....I missed it.

To this day I still don't really know what I believe. I did start talking to him again, I've found comfort in that even though I feel like a hypocrite for talking to him when I'm not even sure he exists. I guess what is holding me back is the fact that I'm a pretty laid back person...live and let live. If you are gay, that's your choice. If you go to this church instead of that church, that is fine. The only things that I really do feel are wrong are Murder or adultery I mean like really BAD things.

Sorry if these ramblings aren't making any sense. I hope I haven't offended anyone. I'm just confused about what I believe right now, and I'm trying to find clarity. I hope I haven't stirred anything up. I feel like such an outsider posting here...

Eve-I am soooooo with you!!!!!

I've been a member of a mainstream church (elder religion) and of a cult. In each, I found a package deal mindset- take all or nothing and do what you're told- that I found to just not work.

I do not believe there's any religion that gets it all right or all wrong. So I do my own thing.

Thank you, Ryanne. Very wise words.

Interesting thread. Every time I move and need to look for a church it's a struggle... why? There have been some churches I don't feel comfortable in, and I can't entirely pinpoint the reason.

One thing, a church can have the most wonderful pastor, but if they can't give a great sermon, it's hard for me to sit through the service. Also I really like smaller congregations - though they do have some drawbacks. The church I found where I am living now is great - but there aren't many people my age (none who come to early service like I do!) and we don't have a choir. But I don't think there's anything wrong with larger churches, just a personal preference. =)

EveLHaelf ~ Welcome There is no such thing as an outsider here! The purpose of this thread is to share our beliefs and thoughts and in doing so help each other that may have had some bad experiences in church.

I am one of the fortunate that hasn't had any "major" problems with my church, one I have attended for over 25 years.

And I do understand that sometimes it is difficult for some to go or even go back...I just hope some can find strength from sharing here to take that chance.

I am sorry you heard that those that don't go to that church will burn in ****....what a horrible thing for a minister to say....and absolutely not in the Bible!

I pass by several Christ centered churches, that are not my denomination, on my way to church....I believe all the believers attending there will be in Heaven.....and all believers in Christ's work, wether they are in church or not.

In our church we focus on the person and work of Christ and His love for us. There are never any threats of going to ****. By learning of His love and what He did for us there is no reason to worry about going to ****....we become believers and the Holy Spirit enters us...

the worries of **** and Satan are no longer a concern for us...there is no power there over us....

I hope you continue in your prayers and ask and seek guidance to your questions. I also encourage you to pick up a Bible and look over God's Word for yourself....listening to what He says to us.

Prayers for you and your husband ~ Gary

IRIS ~ I have been blessed with a Pastor that for over 25 years has never had a bad sermon as far as I am concerned. However, we have had some vicars that were tough to sit through....and some Pastors that have filled in over the years for various reasons. Our congregation also has over 10 retired Pastors, some have spoke and were enjoyable and others a bit more difficult.

When Angie and I travel we always try to find a Missouri Synod Lutheran church that we can visit...but if not we will go to any church that we feel is Christ centered for a visit.

I have seen many things I wish we had and have seen many churches that would love our place.

My church has always felt like the perfect fit for me...Angie too when she came with me to a concert on one of our first dates....she never went back to hers.

I know I am lucky. I also left it for a while when my ex left me...I felt so bad inside...and although I never once blamed it on the church or God...in fact my friends and Pastor at church more than comforted me...but it didn't feel right...it was very difficult for me to go to church and have my ex sit on the other side with my kids on "her day"....

It felt like crap...but it wasn't the church...it was me! everything I needed for healing was there...I just didn't feel it. As I searched other churches to go to nothing felt right there either....I finally decided that my church is where I wanted to go and that was it! I would deal with it...I had no good reason to leave...I went back and found "home" again quickly....

I guess what I was trying to say in this long drawn out post was...

keep looking kiddo...you will find that "HOME"...I know you will...praying for that!

Thanks, Gary!

I do have a bible but I haven't picked it up in a while. I'm going to start reading through it and come to my own conclusions instead of letting a mis-led pastor give me a bunch of scare tactics.

And if something confuses me, I'll be bugging you wonderful people again to explain it to me.

I tend to think along the same lines. Belief can be difficult mentally, and it seems like there should be some reprieve for those who may not believe but still live by the Bible - in terms of the ten commandments and following the examples of Jesus.

I hope you continue to post here - no need to feel like an outsider! =)

I can tell you gals that according to God's Word there are people that have murdered that are in Heaven and plenty that didn't are not.

If we try to set our own standards of who is good enough and who isn't...what is sin and what isn't... we fall into serious trouble.

We are all sinners....

any sin separates us from God...any sin...from that little lie to mass murder...

If we try to reason it out we end up with situations like this...

suppose...just for a second I had committed zero sins in my life....then I find out for a fact that someone is going to murder someone or several people....lets say 20...what if I go and murder him...saving 20 people...what happens to me?....I murdered someone....but I saved 20...murder...is murder...

We all suffer the consequences of our sins on earth...each in a different way...

some say abortion is OK...others don't...some have major issues with it later in life...some don't...

it is not for us to determine the sin...

it is for us to choose whether or not we believe God's Word to be true and fact or not....

If we seek Him His truth becomes clearer to us each and every day...

You gals are the best!

True, Gary. And I know it's whoever believes in Jesus will have eternal life... not whoever lives a sinless life. This is still something I struggle with because there are people who I believe lead lives really emulating Christ who may not actually be Christian... ok, actually this is very personal for me - a close friend of mine was shot and killed when we were back in middle school and she was not Christian, but was one of the most wonderful examples of a human being and I can't deal with the idea that she would be unwelcome in Heaven. I did not go to church for several years because of this (my parents didn't go to church when I was in school, just me - so that was never an issue).

At any rate I am very glad that I am no longer letting this keep ME from seeking the truth and I really appreciate being able to have this conversation. This is such a great community!