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I am not directing my thoughts here to anyone personal, I just feel like saying a few things that may or may not help some of you :)
Having a relationship with God is not something we have to do. It is not something we need to have. It is not something you can give to anyone else. It is not something you can take away from anyone else. It isn't something you can earn. It isn't something you can "get" for your kids. It isn't something you can "give" to loved ones that have passed. People each and every day are born and die on this earth without having known their Creator. It happens every single day of our lives. If you want a relationship with God, He is there for you. He tells us in His Word that if you seek Him you will find Him. It isn't difficult. If you are still looking for a "sign"... He already sent the sign! His Son! There are many Christian religions out there. There are many wonderful churches out there in many different religions. With many wonderful people. Yes, there are jerks out there.....there are rotten people in rotten churches. HE gives us the "truth" and the freedom to seek Him. Our countries are free countries :carrot: We have the freedom to attend the church of our choice, if the church we are going to is not about the "truth" we can leave and find another. If you are looking for a church that is going to fill all your needs as you give nothing back then I am sorry to say you may not ever find it. However.... If you are looking to find "truth"...if you are looking and seeking a relationship with your Savior you will find it. If you look and seek, you will find a church that preaches and teaches the "TRUTH" of Christ from the pulpit. If you seek a church that preaches from the Bible and no other book, you will find it. If you are looking for a church that does the above and allows you to join/start a youth group ~ a toddler group ~ a Bible study ~ a weight loss program ~ a cooking club ~ a singles group ~ a senior group ~ a walking club ~ a Monday Night Football group ~ a holiday bazaar group ~ a senior/youth ministry.....then you will find it....if you really want to. I look at going to church as a wonderful opportunity, a blessing. I look up at the stained glass windows and Jesus on the cross every week and pray that He brings me back the next week. The more I give, the more work I do, the more I attend, the more I participate....the greater the gift I receive here on earth. I am blessed...but the blessing I have is for anyone that wants it :) |
I guess my only problem with your post EZ is "Christ." One way for some--but many paths to the same IMO. IMO and experience, I do not need to go through Christ or Mary or any other to access GOD. He is in me. I know it.
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I have a relationship with God and Jesus all on my own. It doesn't require a church for that to happen.
Perhaps I sounded as if I was looking for something that fits my needs without giving anything back, but that is far from the truth. And if that was any reflection on my discomfort with public emotional displays of religion--I give that all to Him and feel no guilt in not giving that raw emotion over to others to evaluate. I do feel, however, that a path towards spirituality, and a path towards God and Jesus ARE things you can "give" your child. I was actually looking for some helpful advice on how to start my process of seeking out a place of worship where I belong. Thank you, Bootsie, Julie, and TBG. I appreciate your help. Bootsie, I agree with you that we must love as Christ loves us. I find it hard to do so when I am in a church or amidst Christians who do not do so in all cases, even (and especially) the difficult ones. But most of all, there is a general sense of me not being good fit for that particular church, rather than the other way around. EZ--I think you are very blessed to find these answers to be so easy and self-evident. I wish that I felt as home in any of the churches I have worshiped in as you do in yours. It does not come so easily for some of us, and as we know from many different endeavors in life (including weight loss), wanting it badly enough doesn't always equate in finding or achieving it. |
Thank-you THIGHS BE GONE :)
You are so right, there are many paths. My journey goes through Christ, and no one else, to God. However, that is my personal journey, as you have noted and I totally respect you and your choice for the journey you take. Although I got side tracked, as usual ;) the main point I was trying to make in my previous post was.... the church is the people in it. We are fortunate in our church to be able to try new things...new interests. I thought, in this economy, there might be a need for a magazine exchange....bring one or two and trade with someone....well I was wrong :D I ended up bringing tons of magazines home....I was able to give some to a nursing home. Angie wanted to start a yoga ministry. She took the classes last year, spent many-many hours training and got her "degree"...she prepared to teach it with a Christian perspective with devotions, etc. And went and "sold" it to Pastor and the Board...it was an easy sell ;) A good friend of ours started a mommy and me group. I have had great success and fun with pizza/bowling nights....chili cook-offs...whale watching trips...etc that myself and Angie have organized with our Christian Life Board. I understand not everyone can do everything but I encourage you all to take a second look at "whatever it is" that is in or not in the church that you think you want to attend....and see what you can do to about it. I have tried many things over the years at my church...some have been big flops (like taking the youth group to the snow for the week-end....and having NO SNOW :D)...others have been a big success. I hope all of you find what you are looking for....but please don't wait for it to come to you.... If I had done that, I would be at home Sunday mornings sleeping in and watching CBS Sunday Morning....I would have missed out on a lot of "stuff" :) Besides....I can DVR Sunday Morning!!! |
EUMIE ~ HI!
I have to go for a bit but I will respond to your post later this morning... have a great day. |
I'm Anglican (Episcopal if you're an American).
The church I go to now is very welcoming and inclusive of all ages, families or singles, gays, all races, etc.) and I feel like part of a family there. I must say that was not the case in some other churches I've been to, so if you aren't happy where you are I do encourage trying another one. When we do Confirmation classes, the candidates are encouraged to visit other denominations (Catholic, Evangelical, Baptist, etc.) and even mosques and synagogues, so that they are sure that Christianity and the Anglican church in particular are the right path for them. I'm not sure 14 years of age is the right time for that kind of experimentation because the parents don't always support it, but I do think it's a good thing for college age people or older to do. |
Hi Tiggy Cat! :welcome:So glad you made it to the faith group, your church sounds like a great one. Come join us in the Christian Encouragers-September in the Faith Group , want to show you my new granddaughter Johnie!
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EUMIE I wanted to get back to you. I didn't want you to think that my post was directed at you specifically because it wasn't. It was mostly in general, but on conversations I had during the week with some people.
I suggest looking around your area for a church you think you may want to attend, you seem to have, at least, a basic background in your faith. I would go online to all their websites and look for their beliefs and practices. You can also see what activities they have on going...if they have a current website. I won't take time to go into it tonight but, although my issue wasn't weight, I had a difficult time going to church as an adult....but that's another story :) Take care, Gary |
I have been going to a good Church...
I have a problem, though. For one thing, I stayed out of Church for a long time because of personal issues with Churches in general.
I want to go, I want a good experience, but somehow, I feel disappointed. I am a Born Again Christian, and I live in the Bible Belt, lots of "good" Churches, reputable...you know... but good for me and my family? I finally found one that I really liked and wanted to become a part of, when I joined the prayer team, I was appalled at the things these people were agreeing in prayer over. It was terrible...and wrong. Well, eventually, due to the pastor's indiscretions, the Church was turned over to someone else and I didn't go back to Church for a very long time. In the last month or so, I have been attending a very reputable Church, the Pastor is faithful...and they are really doing great things for a lot of people. They are very focused on their youth, the problem I have is this: I don't like for my children to be hit in the face by other children...and have him crying (my son is 4) and they not let me know. He told me when we got home. I don't want my child to have to fight at Church. I want him safe and secure in Church. It is supposed to be a safe place. Then my daughter, who is 16, was out in the rain with her group, having a "slop fight".... basically this was a major food fight with buckets of slop. She was wet and standing in the rain barefoot and dirty when we picked her up. I was appalled. I don't think this is appropriate behavior or activity for Church. When we went to Church, she had showered, done her hair and make up, had on a nice skirt and sandals... When I picked her up, I almost cried at the way she looked and smelled, never mind our shopping trip after Church...we didn't make it, and I almost vomitted from the smell from the back seat, to which she stated may be the "pickles". We don't have our own washer and dryer, we need to go to the laundry mat, so her Church clothes went into a plastic bag, so I can go do her laundry again, and have to spend extra money that we don't really have to wash HER clothes. I'm disappointed and sad. I want to know my kids are safe at Church and doing nice fun things. I don't want to sit through Church worrying about them the whole time. I go to Church, maybe not because I really want to, but I know the importance of fellowshipping with the flock. I want to do what God wants me to do. I want to be obedient, but this is kind of the reason I don't like Church. |
RYANNE I am sorry for your children's experiences.
I wasn't going to respond as I, not being close to the situation, might say something to offend you and I don't want that. Seriously, I have thought about this post for days and thought I would share some experiences I had When my children were in 2nd and 4th grade, at our church school, I had knee surgery. I was off work for a year. Being able to get along after a few months, but not released back to construction, I was able to help out at school. One day I got a call at home, seems the school had a field trip...all grades...and some of the children had to stay back for various reasons....well the person that was supposed to watch these kids was not available for some reason...don't recall...many years ago...anyway I was called and asked to "babysit"....now I had kids of all ages...K-8th...it seemed like every time I turned my back to look one way some kid was smacking the other... this was not the last time I helped out in the school, day care or nursery...it happened more than once...and I am sure you know kids will wallop on each other...especially the little ones... but to be honest, since that happens, in less there was injury or it kept happening....I didn't mention it to the parents....I just figured it was "life" I have also had the experience of youth group directors not making maybe the smartest decisions...most are young themselves. I don't know but maybe what your daughter went through a poor decision from a young director or maybe a game gone bad? My son had a kid sitting behind him in class that kept smacking him... the other child had issues...still does today, 19 years later...we always had problems with this child in youth group situations...his parents were aware and came to most activities to help out and keep watch. Anyway, my son had known this boy for several years, was the one that (as the boy said) tried to be a friend...anyway for some reason the kid wouldn't stop hitting my son in the back no matter what my son said. He told his teacher who scolded the boy but nothing changed. I told my son the next time he does it get up and move to another seat....if your teacher asks why then tell her...if there is an issue I will come to school. The boy hit my son...my son moved his seat...teacher asked why...son told her...he stayed there rest of the year. Sometimes things work out....sometimes they don't. I taught 4th Sunday School for several years. The son of one of my best buddies from church was in one of the classes. He just pushed and pushed...nothing I could do would get him to stop causing trouble, I talked to his parents about it...after more weeks of disrupting my class I finally had enough and took him...and the entire class...up to the adult Bible study...dropped him off with his parents. From then on he was the most well behaved kid in class...he was so embarrassed...and I am sure his mom and dad were too! I had had enough...the kid and his parents are still good friends today...15 years later. I hope you take the opportunity to get back to a church and find one you enjoy. There is so much bad stuff out there.... I was fortunate enough to have a great place for my kids to go to school and youth group. My kids came from a divorced home from the time they were 6 and 8 yrs. old. It was not always easy going back and forth even though they saw me almost every single day. I was a very involved parent...very. I also was not afraid to allow them to go to public high school ...both of their wishes. They did very well in school and sports...there and college. I know a lot of their success has been from THEM...and a little from me, their mom and Angie...but I know... and I know it deep in my heart...their experiences in church and church school were the most important factors in their lives... not a perfect school...not a perfect church...not perfect parents... but if you put yourself in a place for good things to happen ...they will... Prayers you find that place ~ Gary |
Thank you, Gary,
I know you are right. My husband and I talked it over and we will stay there until God moves us somewhere else, which we are praying about. I know kids will be kids, it just hurts when you know your child was crying for you and the workers don't let you know. We do have a system for that, in which they just flash your child's # on the screen....but looking back, they are probably used to it for that age group.
I have thought the same thing, the Pastor's son is the leader of the very large youth group, and ya, maybe it wasn't the best decision because he is young, and maybe they did have fun... however, sometimes they don't think things through at that age. I was very upset, but after praying about it, I am only thankful no one got hurt or sick. My son will have to face these issues in school, so in the meantime, I told him I was proud that he didn't hit the child back, although he did say he pushed the other child after being hit in the face. He did tell the worker, who did set the other child in time out. So, I apologize for over reacting, it took me a few days to see this. I appreciate your response to my dilemma. Like I said, we will continue to worship there, and if and when God moves us, we will move. The kids do like the Church and they do have fun, usually. Like you said, no perfect Church, no perfect parents...etc... ya, you're right. Hugs! :hug: |
RYANNE ~ Thanks for seeing I was trying to be helpful.
My daughter, as a teen-ager 13-16, used to babysit in the nursery at the Sunday School hour and second service. I usually go to first service. Anyway I would check in to see if her helper had shown up...sometimes not, if she needed another set of eyes I would stay and help. It didn't happen all the time but sometimes the little ones wanted mommy of course. Because we know the parents dropped the kids off so they could attend church and Sunday School w/o them we really tried hard to turn the kid around. We do have a cry room in our sanctuary where parents can see everything but they are in room where the people in the sanctuary can't see them (unless they turn around) or hear them...kids are also always welcomed in church itself but some place them in the nursery and others prefer the cry room. My wife is a school teacher, for a couple of years they asked her and my teen-age daughter if they would run the Summer Day School...mostly fun field trips...for $$$ of course. This was at a time when my daughter was saving $$$ for college expenses so they jumped at it. Well, one day the trip was to the beach. A note was sent home for parents to sunscreen the kids...my wife would re-coat the kids....anyway they asked every kid and every kid said yes, they were sunscreened....well one kid wasn't...he got a bad sunburn! I was livid when I found out...more so than the mom (also a family friend)...anyway...another example of something going wrong unintentionally. The kid went on to be a star... for a day... the Jay Leno Show...so all is well. Be hopeful ~ Gary |
My parents took me to a baptist church while I was growing up. When I got older, I would hear the pastor say things like: "Those who don't attend this church will burn." I would look around and see none of my school friends, no one else from my family except my parents....I would think quietly to myself: "So everyone else I know is going to ****? Just because they don't go to this church?" I eventually got pretty sick in my stomach and just stopped going all together. I haven't been to church since. I married my hubby who isn't a believer and I just kinda went along with him.
I stopped believing for a while...Just got caught up in life and avoided any thought that leaned that way. My biggest confusion was: What about the people who were generally good. Never murdered, never cheated on their significant other, never raped or stolen anything...would they go to **** just because they didn't believe in God? My DH is a good man and I just can't see him burning because of his belief that the big bang created us all and there really is no god. One day I just panicked. The thought of dying and there being NOTHING afterwards scared me too much. I remembered how comforted I was in believing that there was a heaven, and all the people I've lost over the years were there watching over me. Just being able to talk to God throughout my day....I missed it. To this day I still don't really know what I believe. I did start talking to him again, I've found comfort in that even though I feel like a hypocrite for talking to him when I'm not even sure he exists. I guess what is holding me back is the fact that I'm a pretty laid back person...live and let live. If you are gay, that's your choice. If you go to this church instead of that church, that is fine. The only things that I really do feel are wrong are Murder or adultery I mean like really BAD things. Sorry if these ramblings aren't making any sense. I hope I haven't offended anyone. I'm just confused about what I believe right now, and I'm trying to find clarity. I hope I haven't stirred anything up. I feel like such an outsider posting here...:o |
Eve-I am soooooo with you!!!!!
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You found comfort.
Originally Posted by EveLHaelf: Do what you feel in your heart is right. You'll be okay. There is no perfect Church, just like there is no perfect person. The Bible says that Jesus is the Door. I used to go to a Catholic Church and some of the things I heard weren't right, either. I'm sorry that you went through that. And what you said about live and let live, well, you are right, we love the sinner, we hate the sin. People are very very important! :hug::) |
I've been a member of a mainstream church (elder religion) and of a cult. In each, I found a package deal mindset- take all or nothing and do what you're told- that I found to just not work.
I do not believe there's any religion that gets it all right or all wrong. So I do my own thing. |
Thank you, Ryanne. Very wise words. :hug:
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You're welcome.
:hug:
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Interesting thread. Every time I move and need to look for a church it's a struggle... why? There have been some churches I don't feel comfortable in, and I can't entirely pinpoint the reason.
One thing, a church can have the most wonderful pastor, but if they can't give a great sermon, it's hard for me to sit through the service. Also I really like smaller congregations - though they do have some drawbacks. The church I found where I am living now is great - but there aren't many people my age (none who come to early service like I do!) and we don't have a choir. But I don't think there's anything wrong with larger churches, just a personal preference. =) |
Originally Posted by EveLHaelf: I am one of the fortunate that hasn't had any "major" problems with my church, one I have attended for over 25 years. And I do understand that sometimes it is difficult for some to go or even go back...I just hope some can find strength from sharing here to take that chance. I am sorry you heard that those that don't go to that church will burn in ****....what a horrible thing for a minister to say....and absolutely not in the Bible! I pass by several Christ centered churches, that are not my denomination, on my way to church....I believe all the believers attending there will be in Heaven.....and all believers in Christ's work, wether they are in church or not. In our church we focus on the person and work of Christ and His love for us. There are never any threats of going to ****. By learning of His love and what He did for us there is no reason to worry about going to ****....we become believers and the Holy Spirit enters us... the worries of **** and Satan are no longer a concern for us...there is no power there over us.... I hope you continue in your prayers and ask and seek guidance to your questions. I also encourage you to pick up a Bible and look over God's Word for yourself....listening to what He says to us. Prayers for you and your husband ~ Gary |
IRIS ~ I have been blessed with a Pastor that for over 25 years has never had a bad sermon as far as I am concerned. However, we have had some vicars that were tough to sit through....and some Pastors that have filled in over the years for various reasons. Our congregation also has over 10 retired Pastors, some have spoke and were enjoyable and others a bit more difficult.
When Angie and I travel we always try to find a Missouri Synod Lutheran church that we can visit...but if not we will go to any church that we feel is Christ centered for a visit. I have seen many things I wish we had and have seen many churches that would love our place. My church has always felt like the perfect fit for me...Angie too when she came with me to a concert on one of our first dates....she never went back to hers. I know I am lucky. I also left it for a while when my ex left me...I felt so bad inside...and although I never once blamed it on the church or God...in fact my friends and Pastor at church more than comforted me...but it didn't feel right...it was very difficult for me to go to church and have my ex sit on the other side with my kids on "her day".... It felt like crap...but it wasn't the church...it was me! everything I needed for healing was there...I just didn't feel it. As I searched other churches to go to nothing felt right there either....I finally decided that my church is where I wanted to go and that was it! I would deal with it...I had no good reason to leave...I went back and found "home" again quickly.... I guess what I was trying to say in this long drawn out post was... keep looking kiddo...you will find that "HOME"...I know you will...praying for that! |
Thanks, Gary!
I do have a bible but I haven't picked it up in a while. I'm going to start reading through it and come to my own conclusions instead of letting a mis-led pastor give me a bunch of scare tactics. And if something confuses me, I'll be bugging you wonderful people again to explain it to me. ;) |
Originally Posted by EveLHaelf: I hope you continue to post here - no need to feel like an outsider! =) |
I can tell you gals that according to God's Word there are people that have murdered that are in Heaven and plenty that didn't are not.
If we try to set our own standards of who is good enough and who isn't...what is sin and what isn't... we fall into serious trouble. We are all sinners.... any sin separates us from God...any sin...from that little lie to mass murder... If we try to reason it out we end up with situations like this... suppose...just for a second I had committed zero sins in my life....then I find out for a fact that someone is going to murder someone or several people....lets say 20...what if I go and murder him...saving 20 people...what happens to me?....I murdered someone....but I saved 20...murder...is murder... We all suffer the consequences of our sins on earth...each in a different way... some say abortion is OK...others don't...some have major issues with it later in life...some don't... it is not for us to determine the sin... it is for us to choose whether or not we believe God's Word to be true and fact or not.... If we seek Him His truth becomes clearer to us each and every day... You gals are the best! :) |
Originally Posted by EZMONEY: At any rate I am very glad that I am no longer letting this keep ME from seeking the truth and I really appreciate being able to have this conversation. This is such a great community! |
IRIS ~ Those things are very hard for us to understand...in fact we can't.
We just have to remember that our God is a fair and just AND LOVING God! One thing that I use to comfort me on the How and Whys of situations like your friend's is.... I know God knows what would have happened with that person if they were able to live their life out as God intended...he knows whether or not that child would have come to Him.... That is all my own thinking and not anything I have ever read or been told..... it comforts me. |
Another thing:
Originally Posted by EZMONEY: |
You make a very good point, Gary! It makes sense. I'm glad it's not up to me to decide what sin is and what it isn't. Waaaay to confusing! :dizzy: It is comforting to know that God is fair and that he can see into a person's heart.
Iris, I had a similar thing happen to me as well and that is what got me wondering. And thanks for helping me feel welcome! Ryanne, that is a very interesting point as well! Comforting! :hug:'s to all |
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