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Old 02-02-2006, 09:31 PM   #16  
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hey gonnaloose, sure ... I could probably talk about Armour and thyroid stuff for about a week without stopping but i'll try to keep this brief.

If you are seeing an Endo you may have a hard time talking them into switching you from a synthetic (like synthroid or levoxyl) to Armour Thyroid. They have been mistakenly taught that Armour is not as stable as the synthetics. Usually it is easier to talk a General Practitioner into letting you switch to Armour. There are lots of doctors out there that are prescribing Armour Thyroid but you may have to hunt to find them.

There are a lot of good websites with great info and I will send those links to you by pm, but Mary Shomon has a lot of good info at hyroid.about.com and there is a new website called "stopthethyroidmadness" that you should check out. Also Armour has their own website where you can check out the info there.

You asked if I could give you more info on Armour so here is some basic....

Natural Thyroid 101

1) Armour is the most well known of the Natural Dessicated Thyroid meds and oldest on the market--since the late 1800's! But there is also Westhroid, Naturethroid and prescription generic Thyroid such as by Time Cap Labs, etc.

Additionally, many folks are using a natural thyroid called Thyroid-S from Thailand with great results. All the former come from pigs, and all are supposed to have their thyroid powder meet the stringent guidelines of the US Pharmacopia.

Natural Dessicated Thyroid contain the same hormones that your own thyroid would produce--T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin, and that's why natural thyroid is SO superior over T4-only meds. They meet the stringent guidelines of the US Pharmacopoeia and are approved by the FDA.

2) There is also OTC natural thyroid, such as Nutri-Meds and others. These are not regulated, and the potency may be ess than Armour and others, so you may have to take more than the FDA-approved brands for the same effect. This may also be true for any "generic" thyroid preparations---they appear to be weaker than the name brands mentioned above.

3) It can be wise to start on a smaller dose of Armour than you will ultimately need, such as 1 grain or less. Why? Because your body may need to adjust to getting direct T3, and, you want to rule out any other issues which can crop up, such as sluggish adrenals or low Ferritin. Some have to start low because the direct T3 will give them palps with each raise--for instance if someone has MVP (mitral valve prolapse)--but the palps should subside within a few days.

It's also important to understand that you WILL NEED TO RAISE within a few weeks, or even less, to prevent your hypo from returning. Just because you start feeling bad does NOT mean Armour is not working. It simply means your body is crying out for more. In fact, you can go up 1/4 to 1/2 grain every few weeks until you get up to 2-3 grains. Then, it can be wise to hold each raise about 4-5 weeks to give the T4 time to build in your system, and show its conversion results from T4 to T3. Generally, most folks don't start finding their optimal dose until they are near 3 grains and over....remember this, and it has NOTHING to do with labs. It's SYMPTOMS.

4) The most biologically effective and direct way to take Natural Thyroid is sublingually or orally. i.e. you place the tablet between your gums and inner check, or under your tongue, or where the least amount of saliva is in your mouth, and forget about it. Either way, it is absorbed by the millions of capillaries that line your inner mouth --taking the hormones straight to your blood, bypassing the stomach and liver. Armour has a touch of sucrose in it, making it more palatible.

Natural Thyroid meds CAN be swallowed, of course, and since those like Nature Throid do not have the suitable taste like Armour does, it can be necessary. But it will be important to avoid iron, estrogen and calcium supplements at the same time, since both bind the thyroid hormones to some degree. Swallowing also brings stomach acid into contact with the Calcitonin in Armour, and you may lose on some of it's benefits to your bones. But it's OK if you have to swallow your meds!! You'll get great benefits!

5) Most folks find dividing their dose to at least twice a day, if not more, is optimal for them. It contains T3, which is short-lived, and peaks about 2 hours after you take it. An example is taking 2/3 in the morning, and the
other 1/3 in the early afternoon. Some folks dose 3-5 times a day. A few even do it once in the morning, and find that to be very effective. But most folks seem to notice a difference when they multi-dose. Experiment to find what is best for you. And remember: your own thyroid gives you what you need throughout the day instead of one dump, thus, multi-dosing is a way to replicate that.

6) Before labs were developed, doctors treated patients solely by symptoms ... and successfully. This is still an ideal way to treat---by symptoms. One important symptom is your temperature. Temps reflect metabolism, and metabolism is controlled by your thyroid. Find a MERCURY THERMOMETER, which is more accurate. Generally, you want your morning temp (before rising) to be 97.8 to 98.2, and your afternoon temp to be around 98.6. This is actually the BEST way to dose yourself!

Unfortunately, most docs put a huge reliance on labs over symptoms. Labs do NOT tell the whole story. So, if you are faced with that, your goal is generally to get your free T3 in the upper part of the range, if not
above. But you have to figure out where it is great for you, based on symptoms. When you get your free T3 at the top, (or when you dose yourself to eliminate all symptoms) you will often have a TSH BELOW range, i.e. below one, and that does NOT mean you are hyper. The TSH is less important once you start treatment, and just because one's TSH can
get lower than 1 while getting the free T3 up there, does NOT mean you have become hyper. Many docs are uninformed about this, so be prepared.

7) Armour et. al is bar-none superior to T4-only meds treatment (Synthroid, Levoxyl, etc) because it is natural (your body accepts ALL of it), it contains direct T3 (the most active hormone and necessary for every cell in your body), and it also contains T2, T1 and calcitonin. T2 has some role in metabolism. Calcitonin keeps the calcium in your bones, and certain docs have noticed improvement in bone density with folks on natural thyroid.

8) It is not uncommon to discover that you need more natural dessicated thyroid than you realize. An amount that gives you excellent energy may not be quite enough to stop hair loss, etc. Or vice versa. Before the TSH
lab came into existence (and played a huge part in ruining good thyroid care), most folks were on 3 grains and more. This is not to say that you will need that much, but it does speak to the reality that you may need more than you realize. MOST folks are on 3 grains or more when they find their optimal dose.

ALSO NOTE THAT THE Synthroid-to-Armour conversion charts are VERY inaccurate. You will need more than stated.

9) Often, there are other areas that need assistance when you are treating yourself with Armour. For one, many folks need to optimize their Ferritin level (storage iron), which is low in many with hypo. Why, we don't know yet. But low Ferritin can cause very similar symptoms as being hypo, OR can cause you to have hyper-like symptoms when you try to raise the Armour.

If upon starting Armour, you have very strange symptoms, including anxiety, insomnia, shakiness, it's a strong sign that you may need adrenal support. Cortisol is needed to distribute thyroid hormones to your cells, and if you are not making enough cortisol from sluggish adrenals, your blood will be high in thyroid hormones, producing the above symptoms. You might need to stop the Armour, or simply lower it, and get on that support for a few weeks before starting the Armour again. There are several adrenal supplements listed in the ADRENALS file on the site--all are used by different folks here. It is strongly recommended that you get an adrenal test--ZRT labs does a good 24 hour saliva test---and this is FAR superior to the one time blood test that ignorant docs will use on you. Or at the very least, do the SELF TESTS in the ADRENALS folder.

11) Take a Selenium tablet with your thyroid. Helps with the T4 to T3 conversion. L-Tyrosine helps, too. Zinc and Vit. C may play a role. Your need for B-vitamins will increase as you improve. Check out the supplement recommendations in the FILES section of this site.

12) If you are able to buy a large quantity of Armour keep it the freezer or refrig to preserve it's potency, pouring out about 1-2 months at a time. Armour does have a long shelf life, though, according to Forest Labs, so it's not a huge worry.

Last edited by cathyxxx; 02-03-2006 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 02-02-2006, 10:13 PM   #17  
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Cath,
Thanks, I was seeing an Endo a few years ago, and I HATED him. He was SOOOO unsympathetic. THen I went back to my clinic and the Dr there was pretty good, well when I went to make my follow up appt I found out that the clinic fired him since he "took toooooo long with each patient" well that is what I LIKED about him. So I am now going to go to my childrens Dr, he is a GP also, and I have always liked him so far. So I have read the PMs you sent and I have a TON of things to talk to him about. I hope we can get this crud worked out. THANKS A MILLION
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:41 AM   #18  
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I here Armour is great. The hard thing is getting a doc to give it to you. They do not get any kick backs.
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Old 02-03-2006, 01:04 PM   #19  
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I know there is another medicine, according to the PM information Cathy sent me that you can take in addition to say synthroid it is supposed to help with the T-3 conversion, it is called Cytomel. So if he (my dr) is reluctant to give me the Armour, I will ask about this also.
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Old 02-03-2006, 02:33 PM   #20  
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Armour is the preferred product for many reasons. One book I haven't seen mentioned here is 'The Thyroid Diet' by Mary J. Shomon.

I have a good deal of information about hypothyroid. If anyone wants to pm me I'll send you my email address and forward what I have.
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Old 02-03-2006, 03:11 PM   #21  
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GonnaLoose - that is definitely true, if you cannot get your doc to prescribe the Armour then you can get him to add the Cytomel in order to get the T3, if your doc agrees you need the T3....

BUT whenever someone does have the choice, let me just mention that to me the best choice would be to take one natural product (Armour) with no side effects, rather than to take two synthetic products (Synthroid and Cytomel) with possible side effects and also the costs of two drugs.

Even at 5 grains a day and no insurance, my Armour Thyroid costs less than $20 a month.

But yes, if nothing else, if you cannot find a doc that will prescribe Armour, then you can talk to your doc about adding the Cytomel if your Free T3 levels are low or in the lower 1/3 of the range. You may have to talk your doc into running the FREE T3 and FREE T4 tests, as most don't usually run those tests - they usually just run the TSH and maybe T3 uptake or some other ones.

Also, be sure that anytime you are having bloodwork done that you DO NOT take your meds before your blood is drawn. It will make the numbers look better than they actually are - especially with Armour - it causes the T3 to spike in the bloodstream after taking it - and throws those numbers way off and causes docs to freak and reduce your meds.

BTW - I love my doc - he is treating my symptoms - rather than my labs.

The best thing to do is have bloodwork done first thing in the morning and then take your thyroid med after the blood is drawn. That way you have not taken your thyroid meds since the day before. Some docs do not know to mention this to you, and a lot of people have their thyroid meds reduced simply bec they took their meds before the bloodwork was done.

Hubs - it sounds like you and I might have a lot in common. :-) I wonder if you and I happen to be members of the same yahoo group? I think I have most of Mary Shomon's books - they are all good! I also recently got 2 new books that I am really enjoying - one is by Dr. Steven Hotze called "Hormones, Health & Happiness" and the other is "Thyroid Power, Ten Steps to Total Health" by Drs. Richard & Karilee Shames - both have excellent info in them.

Hubs - I am always interested in more thyroid info. I will pm you and give you my email address - send me any info you want to share & thanks!

Cathy

Last edited by cathyxxx; 02-03-2006 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 02-03-2006, 03:25 PM   #22  
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Tons of information in here!

I went to an endo and even though my numbers were good, he put me on syntroid. At this point I was too tired to fight anyone and I did not think it was going to work. I did ask about Armor, but he gave me all the "reasons" why synthroid is better. I have been on it since march 2005, and things have been ok. I really have to be extra carful with mydiet, or I won't lose weight.

I recently had allergy testing done, and surpisingly I am sensitive to Armor and the other more natural forms of thyroid supplements. But I am still having a hard time losing weight, do you think i should talk to the dr and see if I should switch?? I am hesitant because if I am sensitive to it then it may hinder any weight loss efforts on my part, but it is so hard. It has taken me 2yrs to get 20lbs off. and it is discouraging to see others losing 2-4 lbs a week. any thoughts??
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Old 02-03-2006, 04:01 PM   #23  
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Ellen - I'm curious - do you mean that you're allergy testing showed that you are allergic to Armour?

BTW, a lot of hypos deal with allergy and sinus problems. It can be a symptom of low thyroid, and a lot of people find that their allergies are better once they are on the correct dosage of thyroid meds.

I believe in Mary Shomon's books she comments that a hypo does well to lose 1 or 2 lbs a month. I don't know anyone that is hypo that loses 2 to 4 lbs a week, but I guess there are always exceptions. I would literally pass out if I saw that type of weightloss but boy wouldn't it be nice :-)

You said your "numbers were good" when your doc put you on Synthroid - do you happen to have copies of that bloodwork? I would be interested to look at what tests they ran and what your numbers were. Also what dosage of synthroid are you taking?

you said "any thoughts" - yes I have several, but I would start by having my doc run these specific tests and getting copies of the results and seeing what your numbers look like (I would be more than glad to help you with looking at the numbers if you would like).

Have your doc run:

FREE T3
FREE T4
TSH
THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES
and THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES

If you are truly allergic to Armour ??? then I would see if your Free T3 is low and if so I would talk to the doc about adding Cytomel. I would also make sure that you are taking enough Synthroid to suppress your TSH and treat your low thyroid symptoms.

On Armour, mine and my son's and my mom's, and my sil's TSH all look something like 0.001 or 0.004 or so (suppressed) which scares some docs (if they are simply treating your numbers). Let me quote something here.....

"To completely rid ourselves of symptoms, we first and foremost dose by the elimination of SYMPTOMS—just as was successfully done before the TSH ever came into existence around 1973. We also check our temperatures with a mercury thermometer—seeking a before-rising temp of 97.8- 98.2, and a mid-afternoon temp of 98.6. We pay attention to our free T3 and free T4. And we note that when we have completely rid ourselves of symptoms, we have a free T3 at the top of the range. And in most of us, a free T3 at the top will suppress our TSH below one, with NO hyper-like symptoms. "
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Old 02-03-2006, 05:16 PM   #24  
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I'll look forward to you PM cathy.
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Old 02-03-2006, 09:17 PM   #25  
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well dang I plumb forgot - I will do that now :-)
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Old 02-05-2006, 03:55 PM   #26  
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I know that they did all those test~i work for a very natural type dr. and have had my ears open. THanks for the input.
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Old 02-06-2006, 04:15 PM   #27  
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I was glad to find this thread, I have to take synthroid as well and I have lost 30 pounds but i Have hit a brick wall, Anyone following the Jorge Cruise lifestyle?
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Old 02-06-2006, 04:51 PM   #28  
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Syldervan, I know which wall you speak of, as I am there tooooooo! No I do not follow the JC diet.
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:48 AM   #29  
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My meds have been all over the board for the last year. Up and down from hyper tp hypo. Currentley I am hyper so my nmeds have been lower. My T3 was normal . I am with a new Doc In a new state. I go back for blood work soon and will see results. When I get them back Cathy I would love to chat with you about the #s. They still confuse me at times. In the mean time I will continue to read Shomons book. I will also ask hin about armour. In the past 3 docs have shot me down on that. Anyway thanks for all the advice.
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:48 AM   #30  
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My meds have been all over the board for the last year. Up and down from hyper tp hypo. Currentley I am hyper so my nmeds have been lower. My T3 was normal . I am with a new Doc In a new state. I go back for blood work soon and will see results. When I get them back Cathy I would love to chat with you about the #s. They still confuse me at times. In the mean time I will continue to read Shomons book. I will also ask hin about armour. In the past 3 docs have shot me down on that. Anyway thanks for all the advice.
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