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Old 11-06-2018, 02:23 AM   #136  
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Hello to November, how is everybody doing out there? We've had a lot of rain lately, meh, hurts.... What with the stupid time change, it's dark soooo early.
Latest news on my end = I was threatened with a Taser and sprayed in the face with a canister of bear spray while on the job patrolling a few days ago and am trying to deal with the 'fallout' from that. Hospital/doc/counselor/WorkSafeBC. Unfortunately the perp got away, but I gave the first description of him and RCMP is on the lookout and asking the public for help in finding him. At least I prevented the theft, caught him in the act. PTSD means I am feeling very high strung tension especially in shoulders & neck, dealing with food cravings to soothe and then upset & bloated tummy when I eat anything. Crying jags and flashbacks. Will be glad to get to the counselor as suggested by RCMP Victim Services. I'm sure she will have some strategies and we'll go from there.
On a more positive note, hubby & I are headed to Isla Mujeres (just off E. coast of Mexico) for 3 weeks this winter. I always feel so much better in the evenly warm weather, of course it could be just plain old lack of stress as we are on vacation, after all. We will be seeing a couple from down there that we met last visit. Looking forward to sunshine, sand, and snorkeling. I think we may do an underground river tour and cenotes this round. We did archaeological sites (Tulum & Coba) last time.

Hablaremos pronto.... Adios!
Liana
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Old 11-07-2018, 02:33 PM   #137  
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hi!

I am currently being investigated for Fibro/CFS and would appreciate if anyone could pm so i could ask a few questions about the implications of it all.

Thanks
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Old 11-12-2018, 05:33 AM   #138  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigpants View Post
hi!

I am currently being investigated for Fibro/CFS and would appreciate if anyone could pm so i could ask a few questions about the implications of it all.

Thanks
Hi Bigpants: sent you a PM.
Plus this from post on previous page:
Here's the MedScape latest from Jan 13/2017 verbatim:

Possible Mechanism Identified for 'Chronic Fatigue Syndrome'

Blockage of a key metabolic enzyme could explain the profound lack of energy and other symptoms experienced by patients with myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), new research suggests.

The findings were published December 22, 2016, in the Journal of Clinical Investigation Insight by Řystein Fluge, MD, from the Department of Oncology and Medical Physics at Haukeland University Hospital, Bergen, Norway, and colleagues.

The study included 200 patients with ME/CFS, as defined by the 2003 Canadian Consensus Criteria, which requires the hallmark symptom of postexertional malaise, among others, to make the diagnosis of ME/CFS. The authors compared serum concentrations of 20 standard amino acids from the 200 patients with ME/CFS and 102 healthy control patients.

In the patients with ME/CFS, there was a specific reduction of amino acids that fuel oxidative metabolism, pointing to functional impairment of pyruvate dehydrogenase (PDH), a key enzyme for the conversion of carbohydrates to energy. Impairment of PDH could result in the cells switching to consumption of alternative fuels, causing a sudden shortage of energy in the muscles and a buildup of lactate, experienced by patients as a burning sensation in their muscles after even minor exertion.

"I think that at present our data are primarily telling us something about the ME/CFS disease. Our findings indicate an impaired function of the PDH enzyme complex, resulting in reduced flux of pyruvate to the [tricarboxylic acid (TCA)] cycle. Increased lactic acid accumulates upon limited exertion, and there is a compensatory use of alternative substrates to fuel the TCA cycle. So, the results indicate an impaired mitochondrial PDH complex function, we believe induced by the immune system," Dr Fluge told Medscape Medical News.

The model, if correct, has implications for prescribing exercise for patients with ME/CFS. "Based on the findings in the study, we can understand why patients need to stay at rest, minimizing the energy deficiency and reducing the symptoms caused by lactic acid accumulation.... The value of doing exercise should, however, not be underestimated, and the level of activity tolerated will depend on the severity of the disease," Dr Fluge said.

He added, "An ME/CFS patient's ability to handle exercise is very individual. Generally, I think the physicians should listen carefully to the patients, and find the optimal activity level through pacing, to avoid 'crashing' with the resulting major symptom increase that can last for weeks and months."

Asked to comment, Anthony L. Komaroff, MD, professor of medicine at Harvard University, Boston, Massachusetts, and editor-in-chief of the Harvard Health Letter, told Medscape Medical News, "This is the latest of many research studies that are pursuing a simple idea: That the human being who says 'I don't have enough energy' could have a problem with their cells producing enough energy.... It adds to a large literature indicating that cellular energy metabolism is abnormal in patients with ME/CFS."

However, he cautioned that the investigators inferred the abnormality in PDH, rather than directly measuring it, and that although "[t]heir argument seems plausible...I wouldn't be convinced until a second study by other investigators, studying other patients with ME/CFS, confirmed this."

Dr Komaroff also said, "What is urgently needed are some testable hypotheses that would explain the several different reported abnormalities in energy metabolism [in ME/CFS]."

Effect Seen Primarily in Women

Dr Fluge and colleagues found different results between women and men. Compared with control patients, the 162 women with ME/CFS in the sample had significantly reduced levels of six specific amino acids (isoleucine, leucine, lysine, phenylalanine, tryptophan, and tyrosine) that enter the oxidation pathway as acetyl-CoA, which fuels the TCA cycle directly and independently of PDH (P < .001 for isoleucine, leucine, phenylalanine, and tyrosine, and P = .001 and .009 for lysine and tryptophan, respectively). This finding suggests that the PDH enzyme is not functioning as it should, the authors suggest.

In contrast, the 38 men with ME/CFS had slight but insignificant reductions in serum tyrosine and phenylalanine compared with control patients, but also had significantly elevated concentrations of 3-methylhistidine, a marker of endogenous protein catabolism (P = .003 compared with healthy men). That difference was not seen in the women.

An explanation for this, Dr Fluge said, is that males use muscle tissue as a source of amino acids, whereas females, who have less muscle mass, preferentially use serum free amino acids as fuel.

Nevertheless, he added, "the PDH impairment seems to be the same in both sexes, with no gender difference in up-regulation of mRNA for the PDH inhibitors PDK1, PDK2, PDK4, and SIRT4 in peripheral blood mononuclear cells of the ME/CFS patients."

Accounting for Deconditioning

There are several reasons why the authors believe their findings are not a result of deconditioning resulting from inactivity, a factor that potentially confounds all ME/CFS studies. For one, the amino acid levels did not correspond to the number of steps the patients took in the 7 days or 24 hours before the study, as measured by activity monitors, nor to their overall illness severity.

Moreover, Dr Fluge said, the female/male differences argue against the deconditioning explanation, as their physical activity levels were similar. In addition, the specific amino acid changes found in the patients with ME/CFS "do not resemble data from other articles analyzing metabolism of inactivity."

Therefore, he told Medscape Medical News, "our conclusion is that the specific pattern observed is not primarily due to inactivity or deconditioning, but rather reflects an altered energy metabolism with alternative use of substrates to fuel the TCA cycle, due to the impaired oxidation of carbohydrates."

Dr Komaroff commented, "They did not find that the level of physical activity of their ME/CFS patients affected their results, which suggests that deconditioning was not a factor. However, it does not appear that their healthy control subjects were matched to the cases by their level of physical activity. So it seems possible that deconditioning might confound the results."

Implications for Treatment?

Most of the 200 patients in this study are participants in one of two ongoing trials, RituxME and CycloME, that Dr Fluge, his colleague Olav Mella, MD, and their team are conducting to see whether the B-cell-depleting cancer drugs rituximab and cyclophosphamide can alleviate the symptoms of ME/CFS.

They came to this by accident: Both Dr Fluge and Dr Mella are oncologists, and they happened to notice that when they gave rituximab to patients with lymphoma with ME/CFS, their patients' fatigue symptoms diminished. They subsequently conducted a small, randomized, placebo-controlled trial that appeared to confirm the observation.

Dr Fluge told Medscape Medical News, "An important scientific question, if the RituxME trial shows a positive result, is to understand the link between the disturbed immune response and the impaired energy metabolism. We presently hypothesize that in a subgroup of patients, a signaling pathway is disturbed by an autoantibody."

Dr Komaroff adds, "If we understand the biochemistry of making energy molecules, then possibly supplements that restore levels of energy molecules that are measurably low are a theoretical way this research could point to treatments."

End of article.

Difference in FM and ME/CFS =
"2016, Reductions in circulating levels of IL-16, IL-7 and VEGF-A in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome" (another Medscape article)
ABSTRACT: "Recently, differences in the levels of various chemokines and cytokines were reported in patients with myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) as compared with controls. Moreover, the analyte profile differed between chronic ME/CFS patients of long duration versus patients with disease of less than 3years. In the current study, we measured the plasma levels of 34 cytokines, chemokines and growth factors in 100 chronic ME/CFS patients of long duration and in 79 gender and age-matched controls. We observed highly significant reductions in the concentration of circulating interleukin (IL)-16, IL-7, and Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor A (VEGF-A) in ME/CFS patients...In combination with previous data, our work suggests that the clustered reduction of IL-7, IL-16 and VEGF-A may have physiological relevance to ME/CFS disease. This profile is ME/CFS-specific since measurement of the same analytes present in chronic infectious and autoimmune liver diseases, where persistent fatigue is also a major symptom, failed to demonstrate the same changes...[5]

Fibromyalgia: Cytokines IL-1beta, IL-6 and TNF-alpha are involved with central and peripheral neuropathic pain which is experienced by Fibromyalgia patients. (A search of http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/470556_8 may be necessary to view article or a Medscape login)

Different cytokines involved means different diagnoses. So you can have one, or the other, or both.

Liana
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Old 03-31-2021, 01:28 AM   #139  
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Hey Fibrofriends on the diet wagon! Hope you are hanging in there in this weird pandemic year and a half. Wanting to bump this thread up because I can't be the only one with FM trying to lose weight/maintain healthy weight. I think with Covid-19 'long-haulers' we may be seeing more people with CFS or FM as the remains of the viral infection.
Please post a hello if you are on this Dieting with Obstacles FM thread. I've been off the forums for a while, but back here again and will post more from Medscape, or just chat, plan strategies, whatever comes up.
Liana
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