Ups & Downs Support Group: December 2013
 

Hello Everyone! If you have been following along, this group started at the thread "Looking for Support Buddies." We formed a nice little support group and decided on the title Ups & Downs. This is the new thread ~ the first listed under this title. :) If you just found us, :welcome3: to the group! I hope you will join in so we can keep the support flowing. If you found your way here from the original thread, thank you so much for following us to our home. This is our space. Please write as much or as little as you want about your own personal Ups & Downs on your weight loss journey. We can only learn from each other if everyone is willing to pitch in and post something. My sincere hope and prayer is that each person who joins the group will take at least one positive thing out of it and also contribute at least one positive thing to the group. There are so many resources out there for weight loss help, and I want this to be a positive, supportive, peaceful place where we can come together and help one another along this road of Ups & Downs. We decided on this title since the weight loss journey is often filled with ups and downs, and because life ~ especially life on medication ~ is full of ups and downs. Let us hope for more Ups that we can share, but also prepare for and support each other through the Downs! Anyone who is willing to be a positive support for others and/or is seeking such support is welcome here. :)

Hello members!
 

Fi (Fiona W)! I am so relieved and happy to hear that your traumatic experience of sitting around the Thanksgiving dinner table was in the past!!! I am sorry that you experienced it at all, but I was thinking, "Wait, I thought she wasn't going to her sister-in-law's dinner. What happened?!?" Thank you for that clarification. I am sorry to hear that you experienced such a profound sense of loneliness on Thanksgiving day when your husband was away at the gathering. It sounds like you have some insights as to why you were lonely, though, which is great! I also think it is good that you identified and acknowledged what you were feeling in the first place. Often, that is the first step. Did your husband enjoy the gathering? Did you tell him about your loneliness while he was away? Just curious. You don't have to answer that if it makes you feel uncomfortable in any way.

Chelsea (CDubsGotGoats): Did you find us here and how are you doing? Congrats on not overdoing it on the pizza the other day!!! That is wonderful progress and that's what it's all about! Thanks for sharing! ;)

lilturtle: I sure hope you find us here and continue to join in. I want to support you during your potential lapse in medication. How is that going, BTW? Any new developments or sources of help? Hugs to you! :hug:

shr1nk1ngme: It sounds like you are doing well! Your yams and sugar-free pumpkin dessert sound yummy! :T I hope you were able to get back down to low-carb eating again the next day. Either way, I hope you find us here and join right in! :)

seabiscuit (Amy): Are you still around? I hope so! Please tell us more about Overeaters Anonymous. I have been curious about it for awhile. Do you think it is helping you?

ladyrider: Are you here? Please post, if so! We care about you, too! :hug:

CrystalClear: How 'bout you? Did you find us here? I hope you will join in!

These were the people that had posted at the original thread. If you just found us, PLEASE POST and tell us a little bit about yourself! You are a member of the group if you are willing to post and be a positive support to someone else. You will be glad you did! ;)

Hi Believe-

I'm still here! I was away for a few days and I am under the weather. I like OA, I have a sponsor and I go to meetings. It is a twelve step program, there are face to face meetings, online and phone meetings. It is not a diet, it's a way of living. I think OA is helping me, I like it.

Take care.

Amy

Hello seabiscuit!
 

seabiscuit: I am so happy that you are still with us and found the new thread! I hope the others make it over, too. OA sounds great! I have thought about finding a group near me, but I am afraid to commit to it. That is one reason I started this group. I need the support of others, but don't really want to join a face to face group right now. I hope we can be a nice supplement to your OA group. Please feel free to share any insights that you learn at OA with the group. Thanks for posting! :)

P.s.
 

seabiscuit: I am sorry to hear that you are not feeling well. I am just now getting over a bad cold. It is that time of year. :getwell:

IBelieve— Yeh, my husband knows I was lonely on T-Day, but I'm not sure he gets what an enormous effort I'm putting into this weight loss project and binge-free project. I'm trying to do it one day at a time, but I've been reading so many good books about how to get free of emotional overeating, it's a strain on the brain. This afternoon I had some severe depression symptoms, but they got better after the sun set: that's typical for me.

Anyway, it's great to see the new thread up and running! Thanks for the work you've done to make this a good place to come and support each other!

Hi Believe-

Thank you for your kind words and get well wishes. I am feeling better but I am a bit tired. I want to try to not overeat, well I have been trying, sometimes I do better at it than others.

Have a good night.

Amy

Good Night!
 

Fi: Happy that you have jumped onto the new thread with us! Sorry you have experienced some depression symptoms today, but happy to hear that they did subside. Interesting that you typically feel better once the sun sets. I tend to get sad when the sun sets. I'm not crazy about the dark. I guess we all have our own unique emotional patterns. Please share the titles of the good books you are reading about emotional overeating. I probably have some of them. I tend to strain my brain with all of the information in self-help books, too. But every little kernel of knowledge helps in this difficult journey we are on. I can relate when you say that your husband probably doesn't understand how much effort you are putting into your weight loss and binge-free journeys. I feel the same with my husband. Since my body is still carrying all of the excess weight, it appears that I am not trying, but I am working on the inside of me right now, which might be the most challenging part of this whole ride. I need to get right on the inside, though, if I am going to be able to make the changes I need to make on the outside. I need to work on loving myself enough to make myself and my health a priority in my life. Since I have so much baggage from the past, this is not an easy task! Although I have come a long way, I still feel like I have quite a bit more work to do on the inside. Hopefully, I will be able to tie it all together one day soon! I will NOT give up on myself. I just won't! BTW, congratulations on 10 days of NO emotional eating!!! That is awesome!!! :bravo:

seabiscuit: I am happy to hear that you are already feeling better! Hope you get your energy back soon. Thanks for posting! It is great to have you here. ;)

CDubsGotGoats, lilturtle, and shr1nk1ngme: How are you? Please post as soon as you can ~ if only to let us know you found the new thread. Hope you are all okay.

Have a great week, everyone!!! :)

Hello :) Long time Depression section poster, I have been on WellbutrinXL for years now. I gained with Lexapro and still felt suicidal so obviously that was not working for me, and made the switch to Wellbutrin about 7 years ago.

I find I can easily, so easily let myself slip into a down mode just by negative thinking, and I can fight it, depends on how much oomph I am feeling. Generally pretty content but terrible self-image and always, always comparing myself to others.

I can't seem to get down to goal, I just eat too much, and the wrong things; I do work out almost every day though.

I know Seabiscuit and Ladyrider :hug: and am looking forward to getting to know others here :)

Well, I've had enough of this depression: my shrink told me to call him if I continued feeling bad, so I'm doing that today. Ever since I got off the Effexor, I've really been dragging. If it were "just" blue moods and low energy, that would be one thing, but I experience even moderate depression as physical pain, like a cleaver jammed into my chest. If I were feeling that right now, no way could I be writing this posting, but I tend to do better in the mornings and evenings: afternoons are my h*** times. Anyway, please don't fret over me: I have hope that between my shrink and me, we'll find a solution.

Holly— 'Nice to meet you! That is SO cool you are a biker chick: I bet your ride is gorgeous! I love candy-apple red.... I know what you mean about the negative thoughts tending to drive down one's mood. You're probably long since familiar with the concepts of cognitive-behavioral therapy, but I'll just say that I got a lot of help from David D. Burns's Feeling Good, because it enumerates all the different forms of distorted thinking during depression. I also got the book of his that's a workbook with exercises you do: just following the practice of writing down my negative thoughts, identifying what types of distortions they were, and then challenging them, on paper, with positive statements, was really a life-saver for me, back in the 1980s when I had my first big episode. Even all these years later, when I have a negative thought, I try to say, "That's a depression thought of type X or type Y," and then detach myself from that thinking.

IBelieve— Speaking of detaching oneself from unhealthy thinking, the book I read just a few days ago that has the potential to be a real game changer for me in the area of emotional eating is Kathryn Hansen's Brain Over Binge. (You did ask what I'd been reading... =grin=) Hansen's personal story of being severely bulimic w/ exercise purges is quite different from my own of rather more restrained binges w/o purges, but nonetheless I am very excited about her simple but powerful technique for how to stop binging once and forever. I don't want to spoil it for you by giving a lame summary: if any of y'all suffer with having strong cravings for unhealthy foods, you owe it to yourself to read this book. Hansen writes very well and really takes you deep into that moment when an urge for emotional/compulsive/binge-type eating is upon you, and tells you what to do in order not to give in.

Amy— I hope you keep telling us more about your experiences with OA. I've never been to one of their meetings, but when I was first trying to get a handle on my emotional eating, I found the concept of abstinence to be very helpful. Except instead of calling it "abstinence" I called it "taking a vacation." I took a long vacation from my Big 3 trigger foods (cookies, candy & donuts), in which I pretended that they were out in the world somewhere bothering other people, but they couldn't bother me because I was on a sailboat (see my ticker) having a grand old time, with no cell phone or any other way to reach me. I was astonished by how much easier that was than my previous pattern of "whiteknuckling" through protracted battles with my urges to overeat. I'd be curious to hear about your experiences with abstinence, or whatever else you've learned from OA that has been helpful.

Hi, Just a check in to let you know that I found the thread! I will get on later to check on how everyones weekend went, and share how mine went as well.

Thank you all for checking on me!!!
Chelsea

Checking In!
 

Holly (VermontMom): Welcome to the group! I am so glad that you posted here. I feel the same as you described about feeling generally content (after years of working on my depression) but having a terrible self-image which tends to drag me down. I am working so hard on myself that I drive myself (and my family) crazy half the time, but I am determined to improve my self-image and self-esteem so that I care enough about myself to lose this excess weight. Neat that you already know seabiscuit and ladyrider! I hope that you will enjoy this group and get something positive out of it. You add to it just by posting. Hope to hear from you again soon! ;)

Fi: So sorry that you have been dragging and battling depression, but happy to hear that you are calling your shrink to do something about it. That is a wise move. Hope he will be able to provide some relief for you. BTW, you are worth fretting over and I am concerned about you, so please let us know how things go for you. I just want you to feel better! :hug: Thank you for yet another book title for me to explore. It sounds like I need it, but I have others to read, too. Would you put this book (Brain Over Binge) before the other 2 you recommended earlier or suggest reading those first? [I already have the other 2 you mentioned. Just need to read them.] I appreciate all that you share with the group! :)

Chelsea (CDubs): Thanks for checking in! Happy to know that you are still on board! ;)

lilturtle and sh1nk1ngme: YooHoo!!! Are you still with us? I sure hope so! Waiting to hear from you! Hope all is well with both of you. :hug:

ladyrider and CrystalClear: Hope to hear from you as well!

Food has gone pretty well so far today. I still need to exercise. Will aim to check in before bed. Sending my best to all of you! Please post when you can. :)

Hi
 

Hi there!

Fiona- I am glad that you and others are interested in my experiences with OA and the OA program. I had over 90 days abstinence before, at times it did feel like white-knuckling but I think I was better off without a lot of the foods that were causing me trouble. I am struggling to get abstinent again but I am refraining from a lot of the trouble foods, and I feel so much better without them. I ordered some AA materials, one of the books came today. AA and OA are very similar because they are both twelve step programs and they both involve refraining from substances. I wanted to go to my OA meeting today but I have a cold so I stayed home. I like the online meetings, they are very supportive.

Holly- Welcome to our group! :)

Take care, everyone. HUGS!

Amy

Well, I called my shrink yesterday. He and I decided together that I should try going back on a low dose of Effexor. He says he has another patient who's on both Cymbalta and Effexor, so it's not totally unheard of. Sometimes I think I need more meds at higher doses just because of how big I am!

It will be at least a few days before I see if this change makes a difference, but already I feel more hopeful, just that we did something.

IBelieve— In response to your question about whether you should read Kathryn Hansen's Brain Over Binge before your other books, I'd say it depends on whether you identify yourself as a binge eater. Do you get intense cravings for unhealthy food? Do you have episodes where you eat more than you usually would in a short period of time, feeling out of control as you do so? Do you do this out-of-control eating in secret and/or alone? Do you have feelings of shame &/or disgust afterwards? Those are the characteristics of what's called Binge Eating Disorder (BED). I only just recently realized that I do have BED. What Hansen's book is enormously helpful for, is learning how to say "no" to those urges to binge.

'Wishing everyone a happy Tuesday... I hope y'all will all check in every day, if you can, for support on your weight loss project! =smile=

Healing Tears
 

Fi: I found The Emotional Diet book, by Bill Cashell, last night and dove right in. When I got to the part about seeing myself through another's eyes, I chose my son who died shortly after birth. As I saw myself through his eyes and read the meditation in the book, tears began to flow freely. What was so profound for me was that I was able to feel my goodness (through my son's eyes) and cry for myself about some traumatic things I went through in my past. This was so good for me to experience, because I have a lot of difficulty connecting to my own worth and sadness for myself and the little girl I was. Even in therapy, I can discuss the way I feel without really connecting to the emotions and truly feeling them, so this was very cleansing and helpful for me. Thank you so much for recommending that book. I noticed that I had read part of the book back in 2010, but never finished it. I think at the time I wasn't aware that I was truly a food addict. This time, I am committed to reading the entire book and doing the exercises in it. I think the book is going to be especially helpful to me in my quest to FREE MYSELF from my obsession with food. It is especially helpful because it refers to online tools that can be used as a supplement to the book. I am excited for what lies ahead in the book and for the continued healing to come! Such a great resource!

I am so happy that you are already feeling hopeful since you have worked out a plan with your psychiatrist. There is no shame in going back on a low dose (or even more) of Effexor if that is what your body needs to function at optimal mental health right now. Relief is just around the corner! Hang in there! :hug:

Amy: Please tell me about the concept of abstinence from OA. I am confused about it. I have some OA books, but I never get too far in them because I struggle with this concept. I think I am equating abstinence with NOT eating at all, which is obviously impossible. Any light you can shed on it for me would be helpful.

Waving hello :wave: to everyone else! Please post when you can!
Here's to a great day! :)

IBelieve— That's great you had such a healing experience in response to Bill Cashell's book! I think it has a lot of wisdom in it, and I keep it handy so I can re-read chapters from time to time.

I had a really rough day: lots of depression pain, in the afternoon especially. But I'm still hopeful that the change in my meds is going to sort things out. It may take a while, though. I'm still on plan with Atkins, and I did my leg exercises.

Hi All, sorry I haven't been able to really post much lately. I have been checking in and reading the thread though, and it sounds like there has been some good progress in spite of the holiday :)

Believe: Thank you for holding this thread together, and it is wonderful to hear about your cleansing experience. I hope that it continues to reinforce love for yourself and to give you strength.

Fi: I am glad that you are feeling a little better since working with your dr., and way to be on track with your diet, exercise, and... YAY day 12!! Especially since you have been feeling so down, that is a great achievement and something to be proud of. Keep hanging in there, you have a great inner strength that I admire.

I had a really bad day yesterday. Went to the my appt. with my new doctor, since my other dr. retired and I didn't get any notification, and he is great but I gained 4 pounds(need to update my ticker) and because of some stuff at work I am feeling pretty sensitive, so it kind of equated to my feeling frustrated and disappointed in myself. Got my eating back on track yesterday from the holiday, and while I don't feel done with my baking for the season I am going to invest in some disposable pie pans so that I can get them out of my house more quickly with no obligation to follow up to get my pans(can you tell where my big weakness is???). Something else frustrating is that the nerve problems that I have been experiencing, and thought had kind of gone into remission, have come back full force and are causing a lot of pain.
Anyway, over all I am feeling ok, but need to give myself a kick in the butt to keep on track and keep working on JOYFULLY eating my FUEL foods so that I don't have such bad urges to eat sugar...

I am extra glad to have you all here today.

Just a quick note: I'm on plan, still somewhat depressed, but not as bad as yesterday.

Oh, and last night I had my first serious test of the anti-binge technique I learned from Kathryn Hansen's Brain Over Binge. I got angry about something. Anger is the hardest emotion for me to just live through and not stuff my face with sweets. So I got a bigtime craving for cookies. But I was able to separate myself from the voice that was demanding cookies, and stay in control of my actions. =whew= Hansen says that once she mastered the technique, it took about three weeks for the urges towards emotional/compulsive eating to get less and less persistent, and about nine months for them to go away completely. I am SO psyched to give up this behavior for good!

Missing Post......???
 

Hello Fi And CDubs and Everyone! I swear I posted a message to you both this afternoon at about 3:45pm :comp:, and now that I come back to check in, it is gone. :?: I had to finish it quickly, because I had to be somewhere at 4pm, so maybe I hit a wrong button or something??? Odd..... Anyway, here goes another attempt!

Fi: So sorry to hear that you had a really rough day the other day. :( I am happy to read the update tonight, though, that you weren't as bad today. HOORAY for you for resisting that binge for cookies when you were angry!!! That deserves a healthy happy dance!!! :broc: I just love those dancing veggies! ;) Seriously, though, for you to be able to separate yourself from the voice that was demanding cookies is a huge accomplishment. Interesting technique! Yet another lesson learned ~ and put into practice ~ from a self-help book!!! I love it! :D

CDubsGotGoats: Wow, sorry to hear that you had a really bad day yesterday, too! :( That must have been hurtful and confusing that your old doc retired and they didn't give you any sort of notification. That seems odd, but I am happy that you like the new doc. Don't fret too much over that 4 pound weight gain. You will have that back off in no time! Sorry for whatever is bothering you at work, too. It sounds like you have a lot on your plate right now. Hang in there and please keep posting whenever possible (but please don't feel guilty or bad if you just can't; I understand). I do think it helps! Plus, I am thankful to know when someone is going through a difficult time, so that we can be here for you for support and encouragement. I also like to keep people in my prayers, so I am sending hugs and prayers your way! :hug: Good that you got your eating back on track from the holiday. I think I have, too. What a relief! I am also sorry to hear that you are having some nerve problems that are causing you a lot of pain. :( Do you know the cause? That can be scary and, yes, frustrating! Darn! I hope tomorrow is a much better day for you! :)

lilturtle: I am so worried about you!!! :( Please ~ if you happen to be reading along ~ please post and let us know how you are doing!!! We haven't heard from you yet on this new thread, I don't think. I hope you find us and that you are okay. You are in my thoughts and prayers! :hug:

Waving hello :wave: to everyone else! Please post with an update about yourself and let us know if you are feeling Up :D or Down :(.

Today (Dec. 4th) was my 47th birthday. I would normally say (and feel like) "YIKES!" :eek:, but I have decided that this year is going to be a great one for me! I will be healthier next year at this time. I just feel it in my bones! One big sign of PROGRESS for me is that I scheduled a workout with a personal trainer today. In the past, I always avoided strenuous or unpleasant things on my birthday. This year, when the trainer said, "How about Wednesday, December 4th, at 4pm?" I initially responded with, "No, that's my birthday." Then, upon further consideration, I said, "You know what?!? I will give myself the gift of a workout on my birthday! Sign me up!" :D So I worked out with Cheryl today at 4pm ..... and it felt GREAT!!! :carrot: The facility where I go is called "GoodBodies." That title would have scared me off, but I found the place on Angie's List and it got great reviews. I really love it! They have awesome Cybex strength-training equipment and lots of treadmills, ellipticals, etc, and the trainers seem really knowledgeable and down-to-earth. I had started with a guy who I really liked prior to my foot surgery in July, but he took on another job along with the personal training, so his hours are limited now. I actually prefer a male trainer, but they encouraged me to go with this lady (who is actually training my handicapped daughter, too), and so far, so good! I was very reluctant to start back up with the training, but I am so glad that I did!!! I really need the professional assistance and accountability right now. I figure that if I am working out for an hour, I want to get the most from that time, and they really seem to know what they're doing. Okay, I am rambling and it is late, so I will wrap it up here. I had a great day with my family. Met my hubby for lunch, went to a Christmas performance at my daughter's school tonight, and then out to a nice dinner at a local fish market. So, for the moment, LIFE IS GOOD in my world!!! :goodvibes

good morning, and hey IBelieveInMe2, it is nice to read such positive posts from you, real nice energy :)

when you say you drive your family crazy with your own self-image problems, do you mean, as you might verbally speak of your anxiety over it, and they try to reassure you? Just wondering how it goes with you . With me, my DH will compliment me, and I'm sure he means it, but I'll say something negative about myself, which frustrates him I guess, because it appears that I'm not placing value on his opinion? sigh.

Yesterday I would have said my mood was DOWN because of a silly comment first thing in the morning that I took too seriously, and let it put me in a downward spiral of bad thoughts. I fought it and salvaged half my day, made myself get out of bed and took my birthday gift money and went shopping, and wow got a beautiful Calvin Klein coat and a Steve Madden handbag both marked down over 50% so I felt fabulous :D I almost NEVER use shopping as a 'feeling better' cure but it worked this time.

Oh and belated Happy Birthday IBelieveInMe2, and so great that you chose to work out on your b-day! Mine was the 2nd, I'm 53 so a few years on you.

Hello to everyone else!

Holly
 

Hello VermontMom! Happy to see a post from you. I drive my family crazy because I am always reading self-help books and talking about what I am learning about myself. I guess you could say that I am a bit obsessed with my self-esteem right now, but it takes constant vigilance for me to catch my own negative thinking and turn it around. My hubby doesn't like it when I talk negative about myself. My kids don't see why I need all of the self-help books. Thankfully, we have raised them with great self-esteem, so they don't get why I don't already feel good about myself. My handicapped daughter, who has way more self-esteem at the age of 14 (despite her handicap) than I do, says that I should read some novels instead of all of the self-help books. I say I like and need my self-help books! :lol:

Sorry your mood was DOWN yesterday because of a "silly" comment early in the morning. Good for you for fighting that downward spiral and salvaging part of your day. PROGRESS!!! Oh yeah, shop therapy works for me often! ;) Hope you had a happy birthday! We are almost birthday buddies! :D Let's make the coming year our best yet!!! :carrot:

Say folks, I've been reading what promises to be a very useful book for those of us struggling to lose weight. It came up because in another thread we were talking about the problem of going off your diet plan, the later in the day it gets. The book is The Willpower Instinct by Kelly McGonigal. According to the author (a Stanford psychologist who teaches a very popular course on how self-control works and how to get more of it), the more stressed & tired you are, the more likely you are to eat impulsively.

That may sound totally obvious, but what's interesting about this book is that it explains why stress & exhaustion undermine your self-control, and offers some surprisingly easy ways to fix the problem. They include:
• making sure you get a good night's sleep (at least 7 hours uninterrupted)
• taking moments during the day for a brief period of relaxation: it doesn't have to be a nap, it can be just 5 minutes during which you relax your body completely and breathe as deeply & slowly as possible
• doing 5-10 minutes of meditation in the morning: nothing fancy, just sit comfortably, completely still, eyes closed, concentrate on your breathing, and each time your mind drifts away from your breathing, pull it back & focus again on inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale...don't worry about the fact that your attention drifts, just pull it back to your breathing over & over again
• at least 5 minutes of being outside and in motion—walking, gardening, playing with your kid or your dog, any kind of outdoors activity

All of those suggestions have been shown in repeated experiments to improve function in the part of your brain in charge of self-control: the prefrontal cortex (located right behind your forehead). So even if you just do one of them, daily, you'll be better able to stay on your diet.

I'm finding this book fascinating, so I may report back with more info from it...

I sure hope you see a change for the good, SOON.

and real sorry to see that you suffer from actual pain from depression. I have seen that as symptoms, but I am lucky I do not suffer from that.

And I'm very impressed at how many books you and IBelieve read, on self-help!

IBelieve, I also do NOT like or embrace darkness, our electric bill must fund the town :D I have the brightest bulbs I can find, and have most of them all on in whatever room I'm in. Thank goodness my DH and son don't mind. Something that helps me also, is my string of white lights that I have around the window by my bed, it's draped by sheers; but with a timer, so the string of lights go on about 30 minutes before I'm supposed to get up in the morning. And they're so pretty ;)

Tonight I've been beseiged with cravings for sweets. I'm eating macadamia nuts and trying to ignore the hubbub in my head. No binge behavior, just Zevia soda and macadamia nuts.

I hope I don't have to go through many more nights like this before the urges to binge die down and go away. This feels like giving up a powerful drug. I was a bigtime emotional eater for nearly 50 years, and this is the first time I've tried to give it up completely. I guess it's not surprising my brain is kicking up a fuss.

I'm trying not to fight it... just letting it roar without acting on the urges...

Hang in there, Fi!!!
 

Fi: You are so strong!!! Just think ~ 14 days.....nearly halfway to your mini goal of 30 days without a binge!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!! :cheer2::broc: I am so proud of you for resisting the sweet cravings that attacked you earlier tonight!!! (I am writing in the middle of the night. My pups frequently wake me up to go out at this time....... :dz:) Macadamia nuts sound like a yummy substitute for sweets! :T Great choice! You are so right that after nearly 50 years of emotional eating, your body is going to fight you tooth and nail and THINKS it's going to win the battle........ BUT: it is being introduced to the NEW Fi who RESISTS that unhealthy behavior!!! :fr: Look out world, Fi isn't messing around this time!!! :cb::carrot: Dr. Judith Beck says that every time you RESIST a negative behavior, you are strengthening your resistance muscle (and weakening your giving-in muscle)!!! That is fantastic!!! :D I enjoyed your summary of The Willpower Instinct, especially the fixes to the problem of impulsive eating. Makes sense, but it is difficult to follow through with all of the "fixes!" It gives us something to aim for, though! Wow, you are cruising through these self-help books WAY faster than I am!!!!! :lol:

Hang in there, Fi!!!
 

Fi: You are so strong!!! Just think ~ 14 days.....nearly halfway to your mini goal of 30 days without a binge!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!! :cheer2::broc: I am so proud of you for resisting the sweet cravings that attacked you earlier tonight!!! (I am writing in the middle of the night. My pups frequently wake me up to go out at this time....... :dz:) Macadamia nuts sound like a yummy substitute for sweets! :T Great choice! You are so right that after nearly 50 years of emotional eating, your body is going to fight you tooth and nail and THINKS it's going to win the battle........ BUT: it is being introduced to the NEW Fi who RESISTS that unhealthy behavior!!! :fr: Look out world, Fi isn't messing around this time!!! :cb::carrot: Dr. Judith Beck says that every time you RESIST a negative behavior, you are strengthening your resistance muscle (and weakening your giving-in muscle)!!! That is fantastic!!! :D I enjoyed your summary of The Willpower Instinct, especially the fixes to the problem of impulsive eating. Makes sense, but it is difficult to follow through with all of the "fixes!" It gives us something to aim for, though! Wow, you are cruising through these self-help books WAY faster than I am!!!!! :lol:

Holly: You are cracking me up about lighting up your whole town!!! :lol: Anything to avoid the darkness!!! I love the string of white lights idea around the window by your bed! Sounds peaceful and soothing.

I had a definite UP today! While my daughter was working out with our trainer at the gym, instead of just watching her and waiting, I chose to walk on the treadmill for 35 minutes!!! :tread: I am working on walking without holding on to the grips, and I walked for 20 of those minutes (in 5-min. increments) without holding on!!! :D It felt great and I am really proud of myself for doing it!!! It is definite PROGRESS for me, who usually avoids working out, especially when I don't HAVE to. It is amazing how much harder my core has to work when not holding on. My trainer says I'll burn more calories doing it that way, which makes sense. A huge DOWN for me was going to the funeral home for my good friend's husband, who had a stroke 2 and 1/2 weeks ago..... and died the other morning. :cry: I just feel so bad for my friend. They had been married for 32 years. I cannot even imagine how she must be feeling right now. Anyway, I had eaten dinner prior to going to the funeral home, and ~ after our visit ~ I felt really hungry again. Some of it might have been real hunger, since I ate the modest meal right after working out. But, after eating an Arby's roast beef sandwich (after the fun hm), I still felt hungry..... this time for chips or something crunchy. I realized at that moment that my "hunger" was definitely emotional. I hate to say that it didn't stop me from downing a small pack of Cheetos when we got home 45 minutes later (fun hm was way across town), but at least I was aware of what I was doing. Next time, I will RESIST the urge to munch and crunch when it is just emotional hunger!!! Or, looking back now, I could have substituted baby carrots for the Cheetos. Oh well, we live and we learn, right?!? ;)

Well, since it is the middle of the night and I need to leave for the funeral (also way across town and it is freezing rain right now; my part of Ohio is in the midst of a winter storm warning) early in the morning, I better get back to bed!!! I know that this interrupted sleep is a negative behavior, but I just LOVE being up in the middle of the night because it is so QUIET and peaceful! :tired: Anyway, hope everyone gets their weekend off to a great start! Talk to you tomorrow! ZZZZzzzzz....................... ;)

hello, i'm here too
 

hi everyone.

i just finished reading all of your posts and all i can say is wow. ;)

i will tell you a little about me. i am in my 50's (55 actually) and i have quite a few serious health problems. i am a jp teacher but i had to retire early because of illness. i got insurance (a huge amount) and my super, and spent it all! :o

fortunately i paid off all our bad debt. so we own our cars, furniture, etc. no more credit cards for me. i can't be trusted! i am working on saving now, and being very careful with my money since i'm on a disability pension. :p

well one problem i have is anxiety. it is treated well with cymbalta. i have had periods of deep depression because of my impossible situation but i will draw strength from, well nelson mandella would be an appropriate idol, yes? :) i also have oa. lucky me.

now i sleep too much. all afternoon. the rest of the time i'm sitting at my imac! i worry about all that, constantly. feelings of guilt. i wish i could stay up. i'm so bored though. i must do something. i know this. tomorrow i could set a little goal, yeah? :)

i have pain, nerve pain in my foot and leg. it's from surgery, i had neuro-surgery, twice, 2 years ago due to a brain tumor that decided to appear on my brain stem. non-malignant, i'm good now really. except for wobbly walking, pain, chronic fatigue etc., i'm lucky to be alive. i nearly wasn't here. :?:

anyway, i am on the intensive phase of optifast VLCD diet. i've lost 14 kilo's and i'm very happy about it. i hope to lose 27 more. in usa talk, that's about 30 pounds lost, 59 to go, approx.

that will do for now i think. oh congratulations to everyone for taking the steps to BE HERE. i appreciate your journeys…take care now, xxx, saraphin. here's my ticker factory ticker in aussie speak LOL :dizzy:

http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt...fgH/weight.png

Let me start by sending out a BELATED HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! to both IBelieve and Holly!! I hope there's still a bit of a birthday glow on these days....

saraphin— 'Looks like I get to be the first to welcome you to the Ups & Downs group: lucky me! =smile= It's nice to have an Aussie on board. I have several Aussie friends that I've gotten to know through the international mail art community, and they are all stellar people. I, too, am in my 50s (58) and retired early due to illness (Bipolar Disorder). My husband got severe treatment-resistant depression and anxiety, and lost his job last fall, so now we're both doing our best to live on disability. Say, saraphin, I have a suggestion for you, if you are bored and would like something engaging to do with your time: www.swap-bot.com. Swap-bot is a large community of people all over the world who enjoy sending and receiving mail—yes, I mean real physical snail-mail. What you do there, after registering and writing up a profile about yourself, is sign up for swaps: A swap can be as simple as sending a postcard and receiving one, all the way up through various crafts such as mail art, collage, papercrafts, needlework, knitting, sewing, even writing, you name it. When I started at swap-bot in early 2010, I just signed up for postcard swaps—a postcard from your home town, one about the beautiful sights in Australia, as simple as that. With time, I happened to get into collage and mail art (see link at bottom of my sig), so those are the kinds of swaps I mostly do now. It's all very protective of your privacy: no one else except the person assigned to send something to you ever sees your mailing address. And the community is so friendly, with lots of swaps open to newbies and a forum where you can ask any questions you have. (Or you could always send me a msg here on 3FC and ask...) It can be a real boost to the spirit to receive friendly mail in one's mailbox, not just bills & junk mail! And it can be as little or a lot time-consuming as you wish: there's zero pressure to sign up for any more swaps than you feel comfortable with. There's even a section of the site (called a "group") for swappers with mental health conditions.

IBelieve— Thanks so much for the enthusiastic support: I really really appreciate it. I ended up turning on our set of the complete Beatles on "shuffle" (random songs) on the stereo, and fell asleep on the couch listening to the Fab Four—not a bad way to end the evening! That sounds great about your workout on the treadmill: those core muscles are so important. I plan to join a gym when I get down about a hundred pounds or so. For the time being, I do daily non-weight-bearing leg exercises to keep my knees in good shape. I plan to start walking soon...And about those suggestions from The Willpower Instinct: you don't have to do all of them, silly. =grin= Just pick one and try to incorporate it into your daily routine: meditating for 5-10 minutes in the morning, before you start your day, will get you the most "bang for your buck," in terms of increasing your "I will" and "I won't" power.

Holly— Your lights around the window do sound nice! I love putting strings of little white Christmas lights in various places around the house. They're somehow both peaceful & cheerful at the same time. But I have to beg to differ with you and IBelieve on the subject of darkness: I also like spending time in the low-stim environment of a completely dark room. I had an abusive childhood, and darkness was the only place I felt completely safe, because my parents couldn't see me. So I often meditate or listen to music in the dark. Say, please tell us more about your Biker Chick identity! Do you ride every day? Do you belong to a club? Can you fix your ride, like minor repairs, yourself? Have you ever read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? What a terrific book that is...

Chelsea— I was so sorry to hear about your bad day at the doctor's office! What kind of nerve problems do you have, if you don't mind telling us more about them. On the subject of "Fuel Eating," Brooke Castillo (in her book If I Am So Smart Why Can't I Lose Weight?) recommends that 90% of your eating should be Fuel Eating, which can certainly be very pleasurable, and 10% should be Joy Eating—those foods, like chocolate, you go for simply because of how wonderful they taste in your mouth. The last thing you want to be in is a deprivation mindset, because deprivation leads to reactive overeating &/or binging. So maybe you should try incorporating a candy bar, or whatever it is you enjoy most, into your daily food plan. Just an idea...

lilturtle— I, too, am worried about you! You haven't checked back in with us since Thanksgiving, a meal you were worried about in advance. I hope we see you soon, girl! =smile=

Amy— Can you tell us more about abstinence, what it means to you? What exact foods are you abstaining from? Does abstinence help you not crave those foods? Just curious...

Well, that's more than enough palaver from me today. TGIF, everyone! Get your mindset in place to have a terrific weekend, one you'll look back on, come Monday, and be pleased with...

Sorry I haven't bee around. I ran out of my meds last week and ended up in the hospital on Monday. I got out yesterday and they got me my meds for the month. My diet has completely sucked the last two weeks. I need to update my ticker. I had lost more but I don't know if I gained any back. I'm going back to low calorie. I did better on that then Atkins. Things are kind of stressful right now. I'm trying to get into out patient treatment and fighting with the insurance company.

lilturtle!!!!!
 

lilturtle: I am so, so very happy to hear from you!!! Thanks for posting. Sorry that you ran out of meds and ended up in the hospital. Been there and it sucks! :( Glad to hear that you are out already, though, and that they are getting you meds for the month. Things might be stressful for you now, but at least you will get your meds to help you function better through everything. Sorry that you have to battle with the insurance company. I hope that you find a quality outpatient facility that will help you get back on your feet. Understandable that your eating hasn't been good during this difficult time. Just do the best you can. Baby steps. Be patient with yourself. You are in my prayers!!! Sending a BIG HUG!!! :hug:

saraphin: :welcome3: I am glad that you found our group and posted here. Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a jp teacher? Not sure what "jp" stands for. Sorry that you are dealing with serious health problems. My advice to you would be to take little tiny baby steps toward better health. Can you walk? I think you said that you walk "wobbly." If you could manage to take just a very short walk each day ~ like maybe down the street and back; then you could EVENTUALLY and GRADUALLY increase your time and distance. Just focus on getting SOME movement into your day for now. It would help your anxiety and your depression and your overall health so much. Maybe you could write about your guilt feelings in a journal. That has been very helpful for me, especially when I can't manage to do much else. Just write freely and uninhibited.......whatever comes to mind. Write, write, and write some more. Pour your feelings out on paper. It will help! That is great that you have lost about 30 pounds (USA talk)!!! :bravo: How did you manage to lose that weight? Best of luck to you with the rest of your journey! ;)

Fi: Thank you for the belated birthday wishes! I am feeling more hopeful this year than I have in a long time, so all is good! Why not join a gym now, if possible? You certainly don't HAVE to wait until you "lose a hundred pounds or so," do you? I would think that a good trainer could work with you to lose THAT weight, too. If they are good, they will meet you right where you are NOW and help you to make progress. I figure that, since they know what they are doing (more than me), I will get the most out of my hour workout this way. And you are never "too big" to be at a gym. That's where you need to be....... working on your health....... if you are super big. Anyone who would judge you for your appearance obviously has not been there, so the heck with 'em!!! Do it for YOU!!! ;) You crack me up about me worrying about doing ALL of the suggestions from The Willpower Instinct at once!!! :lol: I told you that I have an all-or-nothing approach to things, didn't I?!? And, yes, I am silly in that way!!! Well, I'm kind of silly......period! ;)

CDubsGotGoats: How are you today? Please write when you get a chance, if only to let us know you are okay..... or not. We care about you! :hug:

Hello to everyone else! :wave: Hope everyone is doing well! :)

Hello ladies, yes I found the thread. Haven't had much to post about lately. Weight going down slowly but steadily, busy busy busy time of year, but NO DRAMA! (This is a GOOD thing!)

:D

good evening chicks! wow this thread is active, that is great!!

Welcome to saraphin! very glad to have you here, hope you can find some comraderie and happiness here :) very sorry to hear of your physical pains. And that you can find an activity to keep you from feeling bored.

IBelieveinMe - that is kewl (my word for cool) that you had an UP moment at the gym!! congrats on your treadmill progress! but how sad at your friend's loss, poor lady.

Fi, aw, thank you for the b-day wishes, yes, still a glow due to my coat and handbag purchases :D Very glad you got through the tough white-knuckling-state of getting through a craving. Yay you!

how sad it was to hear you speak of the peace of a dark room, to hide from your parents :hug:

i LOVE to talk about motorcycling :D My DH and I belong to United Motorcyclists of Vermont, I'm vice president in fact, and will prob be elected Prez this February, if I don't chicken out, lol. We raise money for scholarships, collect toys for the Shriners Hospitals, Visiting Nurses Assn, and other charitable organizations.

I ride to work almost every day from late April or early May, through November, my commute is almost 50 miles a day of beautiful Vermont countryside so that is pretty fun!

We have taken long trips to get to rallies in South Carolina, New York, and Ohio; and the farthest I've gone on a bike is to the Arch in St. Louis. You can't tell from looking at me, that I'm a biker chick , lol, except for the blond hair, no tats (yet) and I dress pretty conservative, until it's biker time :cool: then it's time to cut loose!

I'm afraid I don't know how to fix my own ride, I'm very happy letting my husband or the shop do it :devil: I would be so proud if I could, yet I don't really apply myself to learn.

thanks for asking about my passion :D

shr1nk1ngme - yay to no drama!!

lilturtle, that is scary to think of ending up in the hospital, sorry about that.

Hi to everyone else! I have off Wed. and Thursdays, and work weekends, so today was my Monday, ugh. Oh well!

hi and thanx for all the support so far
 

i'm tickled pink to know you are caring enough to post real posts to little me, (no so little, really, but i am underneath!)
it's great to read your posts, so invigorating in a way.
yes, vermont mom, this thread is way active - i'm having trouble remembering everybody's name, and your individual stories. i know you are a biker chick. that's easy. and so kewl. LOL . wow and you ride a 1300 cc! how can you even pick it up? i love bikes but they're scary. my son rides a 500 suzi. he likes it. yellow. very cute. your red one sounds hot. i drive a corrolla! lol:carrot:
ibelieveinmetoo your little pic's are so cute…how do you get those? do i have to wait a certain number of days for that also?
fiona, wellwell i LOVE your swap-bot idea! yes i do! i'm headed there soon thanx:dizzy:
hello to shrinkingme and lilturtle, greetings from oz.:hug::hug::hug:
hey everyone, choose to be HAPPY tonight (it's already saturday night here so you've got time to get happy lol)
i read recently about CHOOSING happiness, so i'm doing it.
my husband is so sane, also he makes it easy for me. he is pretty much happy all the time!!!!can you believe it? i feed off his mood a lot. he smiles at me ALL the time….lucky me!:p:p:p

we are about to settle down for a night in front of the telly as usual, which i'm perfectly HAPPY about. we never go out. i don't want to anyway. i've already been everywhere!. we used to go out all the time but now we find it SOOOOO comfortable at home!

um ibelieveinme, jp is junior primary. little ones, 5 - 8 years old, i teach at school. well i used to until i stopped haha. but i hated it in some ways anyhow. waaaaaay too much stresss. oh god it was dreadful for that. but i miss the children.

i LOVE being at home now with my dogs and house and garden though. and my husband quit his job far away to be close to me and to take care of me so he's here a lot too. he just does some casual work. it's so beautiful, us. i adore him and he loves me too. so that's us. we have a few friends and a great family…2 great families in fact.

tell me people, what is DH?

BFN, saraphin :dizzy::dizzy::dizzy

btw, thank you for your lovely welcome, vermontmom etc., i'm very happy to have found you. i'm just manoevring my way around this site so excuse me in advance if i make too many dumb blunders BAHAHAAA ;) until later xxx

saraphin - thanks for your nice post telling us about yourself! what a lovely person your husband sounds like. And your home life sounds too comfortable to want to leave, also! In your garden, do you plant vegetables, or just flowers?

DH is "Dear Husband"...some people will also write "DD" "DS" for Dear Daughter, Dear Son; SIL is Sister In Law... :) In fact, here http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/anno...-acronyms.html is a whole long list of acronyms frequently used here and on the web. :)

It is OK not to know everyone's name, sometimes we have the time to study each person's post and write something personal; sometimes it is all we can do just to say "Hi to everyone" and that is OK too!

I applaud you for choosing happiness!! sometimes I know it is not possible but if one can, wow that is uplifting and I agree it is what I need to do many times to force myself into positive thinking.

Oh and my big bike...if it falls over, I just stand there looking helpless and usually some big strong person, usually a fellow biker, comes to help me :rofl: I try very hard not to let that happen, though; last spring I tried to get my bike out of the garage but I got stuck in a mud puddle and couldnt even put the side stand down, so I sat on my bike for AN HOUR until my son came home to help me :rofl:

The little pictures at the end of one's post, you do have to wait a certain number of days, being a 3FC member, before being able to post those.

Well, Hi to everyone :D I have to get some cookies together for a Christmas sale our Fire Dept. Auxiliary is doing this morning; I can't participate by attending because I will be at work, but I always make cookie bags for the sale. Yes and I eat them too, sigh! don't even want to talk about my diet which I am never on!
have a great day! :cool:

Wow!!! Love the mutual support happening here!!!
 

Hello Everyone! I am in a hurry to write because my hubby and I are taking off for an overnight to an out-of-town concert! I can't wait, except that I think we will miss the OSU Buckeyes -vs- Michigan State Big Ten Championship game, which is a major bummer! We are HUGE Buckeye fans!!! :D I am hoping the bar where the concert is has TVs, so we can catch part of the game, too. Either way, we will have a blast! :D We have a 17-y-o son and a 14-y-o daughter, and we rarely leave them, so this is much needed time alone! ;) Anyway, I will check in again Sunday evening.....if I'm not too hungover! :lol:

shr1nk1ngme: So happy to hear from you and that you found the new thread!!! No drama is a good thing and slow but steady weight loss is better than where I am.....at NONE! :(

VermontMom: Great to hear from you! Your biker adventures sound so kewl :lol: and it sounds like you do some great work for charity. That is awesome! Thank you for welcoming saraphin so warmly and taking the time to write so much to all of us. You are a wonderful addition to our group! :D

saraphin: Looks like you figured out the little pics/smilies with your post! Aren't they so fun?!? :) You can use them when you hit "reply" but not if you click on "quick reply." Keep 'em coming! I love them! :D That is wonderful that your hubby is so good to you! Your relationship sounds a lot like mine with my hubby. We are very blessed! :love: Please keep posting. You are a great addition to the group, too! :hug:

Fi: As VermontMom mentioned, that IS so heart-breaking about you finding peace in the dark as you hid from your parents as a child. :cry: I know what you mean, though, about the dark being peaceful, too. Even though I prefer the light, sometimes I love being in my home in the middle of the night........ where it is PEACEFUL and QUIET. You might have noticed that I have written some of my posts at that time. Not good for "adequate sleep," I know, but I do enjoy being up in the middle of the night ~ all by myself ~ at times.

Okay, ladies, I am off to pack my bag for my overnight and then we must get on the road. Until tomorrow night............... stay strong and positive everyone! :goodvibes :wave:

I probably shouldn't ever post in the afternoon, but I just gotta say this: my diurnal rhythm sucks. Even when I'm not depressed, I'm not good for much between about 1 PM and 6 PM—at least not predictably so—but when I'm depressed, as I have been for a few weeks now, afternoons are Misery City. In the past few days, since going back on a low dose of Effexor, I'm been great in the mornings, great in the evenings, but in so much damn pain in the afternoons, it just isn't funny.

And I can't trust anything I think in the afternoons, because my thoughts during that time period are just a long dreary parade of despair, corruption, ugliness, might as well crawl in a dark corner and die—you get the picture. For example, on the topic of my weight loss project, in the mornings I'll think, "Hey, it really looks like I'm making progress: staying on Atkins, feeling a little smaller, 15 days of no emotional eating, soon I'll increase how much exercise I'm doing—not bad!" But now, because it's the afternoon, I'm thinking, "The diet isn't working, I'm probably stalled, I'm horrible & fat & slothful, and I always will be, so what's the point?"

But I know for a fact that once the sun sets, I'll be back to, "Hey, doin' pretty good here, even stickin' to the diet during a depressed phase, let's turn on some music and dance!" Isn't that ridiculous? It's so frustrating, losing a whole third of my waking life, not being able to trust my own thoughts.

All right already: I'll stop this pity party. I'll go back to lying on the couch under a big thick quilt, moaning and hating myself.

Sorry, y'all. I love reading your postings, I really do. Thanks so much, IBelieveInMe2, for putting this thread together. I hope you enjoyed your concert. What band did you see? What kind of music? (Say, any chance you could give us a name to call you? It doesn't have to be your real name, of course. Names are so much more friendly than handles.)

:phi everyone, just checking in! :carrot:

fiona i read your thread and i am so sorry you are feeling so blue all afternoon. i sleep all afternoon so what's worse? yours i think. maybe some sunshine would help you? i kow that's the last thing you want to do but maybe if you just get up and drag your quilt to the letter-box , and just MAYBE you could sit out there for a bit? :dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:

sorry. do you even HAVE any sunshine? come over to oz. we've got sunshine going for free here! :):):) i hope you're smiling at that! :p:p:p

take care everyone, well done for posting, it's cathartic to let your feelings go - i'm here. :-) :hug::hug::hug:

this is a post script
 

:):):)oh, ps…thanx for welcoming me into your group. thanx also for the replies today and yesterday. answering a question ( i forget who asked me…maybe you, holly?) i grow vegetables AND flowers. tomatoes and petunias and impatiens and pelargoniums atm

also, ibelieveinme, we are blessed, too. and the little pic's are soo sute. they brighten up olur posts don't they? :):):)

:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug: :hug::hug:

What a blast!!!
 

Hi Everyone,

I am back from our little mini get-away. Although Ohio State lost their big game (we WERE able to watch it on tv at the bar), the concert was so much fun and we had a blast dancing and I even rode the mechanical bull at the bar! :cb: :lol: It was so nice to be with just my hubby for the evening and overnight! :love:

Fi: I so wish there was something that could help you get through your afternoons better. We need to come up with some solutions! Have you asked your doctor about it? Could you take some med in the afternoons that would take the edge off of your pain and depression? I take Klonopin as needed for extreme anxiety (like when going to a large and/or difficult social event) and it just takes the edge off of my heightened feelings of anxiety. I wonder if something like that would help you in the afternoon. :?: What you are describing sounds awful! :( Or, at least, is there something you could take to help your physical pain in the afternoons? Have you found anything that is helpful?

The musician we went to see was Phil Vassar. He is a piano playing country/pop guy. Super sweet guy and it turns out he was staying at the same hotel in the little town as we did. He walked in as we were waiting for a cab to pick us up to go to the concert! It was pretty funny. He is an awesome performer! Very talented! Much too talented to still be playing in the little bar where we saw him. I have seen him in concert lots of times and met him several times, too. He is one of my all-time favorite musicians! I play the piano, too, so I am an extra big fan of his! :)

saraphin: Great to see you continue posting! The smilies are a blast!!! :D So happy that you found us here! :hug:

:wave: to everyone else! Please post and let us know how you are doing!

:hug: hi everyone

thanx again for welcoming me, ibelieveinme and others! :hug::hug::hug:


http://www.3fatchicks.net/img/bar-ch...0/58/85.4/.png

as you can see, i use metric measurement. for imperial calculation, you simply multiply by 2.2 that easy. 2.2 pounds per kilo. i always remember that. :):):)

i'm doing ok, except for the pain i woke up with, but i took my med's early so it will abate soon enough. :p:p:p

i'll stay here at my i-mac for a while though, drinking way too much coffee. ;););)

bfn :dizzy::dizzy::dizzy: