Same here--it's a dilemma for sure. It's as if eating it makes me want more instead of feeling satisfied. The End of Overeating discusses this, without offering a definitive because it isn't clear yet what if any is the solution. Yet, I found it helpful to know there might be an underlying physiological cause. I view in the same way as I do my flat feet--it's not a flaw but a variation that I need to accept & figure out how to manage. If only there were "good shoes" for eating!

I think this is fantastic! :cp::cheer2::cheer3: It's just not possible to predict what's around the corner, each week....Could you think of some back up strategies to help in case the shared desserts become more difficult? Easier said than done, I know! I've noticed that it's easier to manage if I don't tell myself "this will be the LAST indulgence, so better pack it in. Also I try to steer a middle way of having something that's a treat but won't activate that more more morecraving. An example, for me, is I can enjoy hot chocolate & then even though I might kinda think about more sweets, it's easy to get past it. I like it but not TOO much.

(Sorry for the long post :) )

It all depends on what you mean by restriction. For myself, reasonable restriction doesn't lead to binging or cravings (it is rather a way of managing and coping with them) -- but over-restriction absolutely does.

For me, reasonable restriction means staying away from trigger foods. It took me some time to know what my real trigger foods were, and then to discover what the BIG KAHUNA trigger foods were once I got through a period of stability without any trigger foods at all. The longer I stay away from my BK trigger foods, the less I deal with serious cravings. Mild cravings that are triggered by smells, or by seeing something yummy, are passing and seem pretty normal and aren't a real problem to deal with. I'd say they are right in line with what normal people think and feel when they smell something yummy or see someone eating something that looks delish.

Over-restriction is lowering my calories too far, forcing myself to deal with chronic hunger over too long a period of time. Over-restriction is definitely a trigger for binging and causes massive cravings for pretty much everything. Because over-restriction is pretty much self-inflicted starving.

I was a champion at the "binge followed by make-up-for-binging-by-skipping-meals-which-is-really-starving-myself-plus-doing-a-bunch-of-super-intense-brutal-cardio followed by OOPS! yet another binge" cycle. And long-term, that aproach got me nowhere good.

So the 2 things, restriction versus over-restriction, are worlds apart for me.

Very looooong side-note: many people's idea of a "diet" looks an awful lot like over-restriction (i.e., starving) to me. So when people say "diets fail" and "diets lead to binging" I really think what happens is more like "poorly implemented diets fail" "and "starving oneself with ridiculous over-restriction leads to binging". I can get behind both those statements.

"Diet" has become a dirty word, to be replaced with "lifestyle change" and "health journey". But that is all semantics. They all mean the same thing, and they can all be done well, and they can be done poorly.

"Poorly implemented lifestyle changes will fail" and "Health journeys that involve starving oneself with ridiculous over-restriction can lead to binging". Truth.

I see many people on this site who think they can gut out a super low calorie, very food-restricted diet in an effort to lose weight quickly. It is all very well-intentioned -- they just want to see some darn results, and then they will think about being more moderate later, when they can fit into their darn pants! They think if they just bring enough will power to bear they can make it through that up-front HECK period (we can't say h-e-l-l on this site). I've done that myself, and it is very, very hard.

Some will make it through the HECK period and become more moderate in their long-term approach, but many, many will not. Some will make it through the HECK period, and will lose weight, but will learn very little about living with these problems long-term and will be doomed to repeat this weight gain and weight loss cycle. I am raising my hand here -- I get an A for not learning for a very long time.

But I believe the number one reason that any particular "diet" fails is that it is implemented so brutally strict right out of the gate that every part of the person's being rebels fairly quickly. This Shock And Awe approach can be particularly brutal for bingers, and sets up a vicious cycle that most of us are familiar with.

There are other reasons (reasons 2, 3, and 4-10) that "diets/lifestyle changes/health journeys" fail over time -- and I have experience with those failures as well, but I'll save my opinions on those for another post.

I've recommended the following before on this site (particularly to bingers), so for any new person lurking in this thread, I'll say it again:

And that's all I have to say about that.

Whew.

Thank-you for that very articulate post Mrs. Snark! Think I'll be printing that to have it handy.

I'm back to work & commitment juggling tomorrow after a stretch of inactivity due to a leg injury. Yayyy! I will miss actively participating as much as I would like. Sending everyone, lurkers too, best of the best wishes! I'm looking forward to reading how you're doing. :)

<<<hugs>>> Mars. Thanks for saying that because I received an email through my blog that said my post sounded more than a wee bit peevish and preachy.

Gaaaaaaaaaah, not my intention at all. I never want to be Mrs Peevy Preachy Pants.

I do NOT have all the answers.

I don't believe that there is only ONE right path to living with binging, or to managing weight, or to handling difficult men, or to existing peaceably in a red state, or to having a conversation with someone who dislikes Firefly.

I believe there are many, many paths. I pull what I need from lots of different sources: a bunch of sugar avoidance, a heaping spoonful of whole foods, a tad of intuitive eating, a whopping boatload of ethical veganism, a smidge of calorie awareness, a touch of Overeaters Anon, a cuddle with occasional hedonism, an embracement of simplicity, a willingness to make up words like "embracement".

I only ever share my own experiences and observations in hopes that they will help someone else with similar quirks as me. And I recognize I'm a weirdo and that what works for me, and the way I see things, may be a bit fringe. But I think there has to be at least a couple people out there like me, I can't be the only weirdo.

I support anything (legal-ish and safe) that works for someone, and I want everyone to reach peace and bliss and happiness and near-constant orgasm.

So if I came off as a big fat know-it-all with an agenda, my deepest apologies. I'm not that way at all (I hope).

P.S. I'm sorry, but disliking Firefly is just wrong. There. I said it.

I'll be bookmarking your 2nd post, Mrs. Snark! If this is what being a weirdo is, I'm in! To me, it's sound, rational, informed by experience & success, and without any sort of agenda but to put something out there that might ease someone else's way.

"I received an email through my blog that said my post sounded more than a wee bit peevish and preachy. "

Written communication masks the tone of a post, leaving it open for projection or simple misunderstanding, against the backdrop of negativity that obese people absorb from our popular culture. And some people's past experience make it easier to perceive impassioned expression as something else. I guess everyone receives through their personal filter, and eating/body image issues can make it difficult at best for positive messages to get through a wall of self-criticism. Maybe something like that was going on?

It would be a loss to the 3FC community if you felt the slightest inhibition in writing your mind. So many good ideas....keep 'em coming please!

OMG I would die living over those three restaurants

I have been doing well on my detox. Minimal cravings. I had one larabar ALT protein bar to deal with a craving and a bunch of protein powder with banana and peanut butter. Protein powder shouldn't be on the detox but it's done the trick. As I move into the second half I'm going to try to be good and cut out the little cheats such as too much fruit, dried fruit and protein powders. Fruit is okay but too much of it is acidic and I can really tell it is putting my body chemistry out of whack. There is something to be said for pH. Veggies will be my best friend for the next week and a half.

Blargh. So snacky today. I have some baked cheese puffs downstairs I am trying to avoid remembering. It seemed like I was in control when I bought them at the store! I probably will be tomorrow, I think tonight I'm just overly tired, I had to wake up early this morning to get to work an extra hour early. Think I'll go take a soak in the tub and read for a bit.

Oh, and plus I had a nice salad (fancy one, too, since today was grocery day!) planned for tonight, but it was cold and rainy and I went to Chick-Fil-A instead. Could be a lot worse, their grilled chicken sandwich isn't bad, and they forgot the honey barbecue sauce so I didn't have that. Did have fries. I suppose it's better than the old days when it'd be a cheeseburger (and maybe a double) and fries (and definitely a large instead of medium) and a sweet tea instead of the diet lemonade that Chick-Fil-A has. Oh well. Baby steps...

Update: Against all odds, I have not died from lack of cheese puffs. Bath was good, much reading was done.

Death from lack of Cheese Puffs seems unlikely, so YAY YOU, RabidStoat. I seriously want to call you something else. How about RS. :)

Ame -- good job, hope the veggies are still your best friends!

Stoat works. :) Though RS is fine.

Made it through another week with all that candy in the office. Cookies joined at the end of the week. My friend, who is dieting, tried to get me to share a Skinny Cow chocolate snack with her. Nope! And skipped the dessert this week at Friday night dinner. I need to learn how to bottle up this willpower, because it deserts me after about three weeks, and I'm coming up on that.

Stoat: 3 weeks is just a number, you can push through it. It isn't will power, it is commitment. You got it. You can do it. Hold firmly to the idea that if you can keep going, it will get easier over time. At least that has been my experience, so I fervently hope the same thing for you!

Grilled romaine lettuce heads tonight for me, with balsamic, and red onions. I love those.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

How is everyone? When it goes all quiet I start hearing the Jaws theme in my head. Scary.

Are we going to need a bigger boat?

Hanging in. Feeling snacky today, but I know for a fact I'm not hungry. There's just too much junk food in the office that tempts, and I'm having a boring day at work today. So I'm just trying to hang in another few hours until I can leave and go play video games or take a bath or read or something.

I can't get back on the wagon.
Its going on a month now.
I must have put on at least 10 pounds because I already feel my pants a little snug but Im not going on the scale.
I don't know guys. I might go to an OA face to face meeting but like I don't even have the desire to do that anymore. The 1 time I went to a face to face it was an unpleasant experience and there was no one there to sponsor. On the other hand I know a really great big book sponsor online but she only does strict food plan so I dont wanna go that route again. I was even starting binge eating therapy sessions but after one session I was just so turned off. You know sometimes you just don't click with someone, that;s how I felt with the therapist. Not only that but she was basically going to guide me through a book where I was to write down what Ive eaten, how I was feeling before,after,yada yada I don't want to analyze my eating anymore FFS. Gastric surgery is looking really good again :( or maybe I should continue the sessions with therapist, not sure at moment.

Meh. After being snacky yesterday afternoon until about 4, I wasn't hungry for dinner and skipped it. Go figure.

And davina, you sound like me! I went to OA face-to-fact once, but didn't really like it. I tried dialing in to a few phone sessions but that didn't work either. Therapist? Been there, done that, mine was a food addiction specialist. I waver on going back to her as my insurance dropped her and I'd have to pay out of pocket, which would be a huge but manageable expense if I went every other week.

I've considered gastric bypass too, but a few things scare me. First, surgery in general. Second, I worry that it's just going to eliminate physical desire to eat, when my desire is all psychological. My stepdad had it and he said you can't eat, because when your stomach is full it'll make you sick. Guess what! I can still stuff food in my face when I feel sick. And then there are people I know who have had it and it only lasts a few years before their stomach expands again and they're back where they started. It just seems like what I really need to do is modify my eating habits, not my stomach size.

Edited to add: And though I feel 'in control' right now, I'm anxious because it's this 3-4 week mark that I'm at where many previous attempts have fallen to pieces. I feel perfectly in balance one day, and the next it's like an avalanche and binging and all sorts of bad habits re-established, just that quick.

oa meetings
 

I've TRIED oa LONG TIME AGO AND LEFT THE MEETINGS HATING MYSELF WORST AFTER THEM THAN BEFORE.pEOPLE WHOULD TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH THEY HATED THEMSELV AND PUT THEM SELVES DOWN AND WEIGH NO MORE THAN 130 LBS.That really made me hate myself because I'm a HARD CORE compulsive eater and put on a lot of weight after a binge.I can easily gain 15 lbs from a 3 day binge and more if it's longer.My weight varies 150lbs-230lbs just from binging & yo-yo dieting.i eat til I pass out like a alicohlic can't stop drinking.i feel ashamed of my binging and hate that I have no control over it.I need to hand it over to GOD.This is hard for me to talk about.It makes me depressed and angry with myself

I can't get back on the wagon.
Its going on a month now.
I must have put on at least 10 pounds because I already feel my pants a little snug but Im not going on the scale.
I don't know guys. I might go to an OA face to face meeting but like I don't even have the desire to do that anymore. The 1 time I went to a face to face it was an unpleasant experience and there was no one there to sponsor. On the other hand I know a really great big book sponsor online but she only does strict food plan so I dont wanna go that route again. I was even starting binge eating therapy sessions but after one session I was just so turned off. You know sometimes you just don't click with someone, that;s how I felt with the therapist. Not only that but she was basically going to guide me through a book where I was to write down what Ive eaten, how I was feeling before,after,yada yada I don't want to analyze my eating anymore FFS. Gastric surgery is looking really good again or maybe I should continue the sessions with therapist, not sure at moment.

__________________
I've been there myself.When I binge I can't stop and the weight starts piling on .Both my neiphew and sister in law had gas surgery.It didn't work for my nephew.My sister just had it

I can't get back on the wagon.
Its going on a month now.
I must have put on at least 10 pounds because I already feel my pants a little snug but Im not going on the scale.
I don't know guys. I might go to an OA face to face meeting but like I don't even have the desire to do that anymore. The 1 time I went to a face to face it was an unpleasant experience and there was no one there to sponsor. On the other hand I know a really great big book sponsor online but she only does strict food plan so I dont wanna go that route again. I was even starting binge eating therapy sessions but after one session I was just so turned off. You know sometimes you just don't click with someone, that;s how I felt with the therapist. Not only that but she was basically going to guide me through a book where I was to write down what Ive eaten, how I was feeling before,after,yada yada I don't want to analyze my eating anymore FFS. Gastric surgery is looking really good again or maybe I should continue the sessions with therapist, not sure at moment.

__________________
I can relate to you.It was that way for me today.i was going crazy and wanting to binge but made myself walk around the track instead

Back at work. Today's been a bit stressful. Sleep's all screwed up. But I suppose this 'chick' is in 'control' for now. Just feeling kinda 'blah'.

In two weeks I have a business trip to Omaha. That will be challenging. I won't have a car, so I'll be reliant on someone else for procuring foodstuffs. And lunch is always at the cafeteria on base, which isn't the greatest. Breakfast is always the continental breakfast at the hotel, so yogurt and cereal and maybe a banana for a snack.

<<<Hugs>>> Davina.

Stoatie (see, the "ie" makes it cuter, lol) -- traveling is always challenging, isn't it. I used to think airports made me snacky, but the truth is I have alot of anxiety when I fly and of course eating is comforting. Now I often go and get an apple as soon as we are at the gate, the repetitive hand to mouth eating and the time it takes to eat a big apple really helps me. And apples are yummy, too. I hope you'll be able to find some decent food choices in Omaha, you can do it!

My challenges in Omaha are picking up crap at the cafeteria at lunch, and eating out at restaurants in the evenings. The cafeteria should be manageable, because there ARE healthy choices. Not particularly appealing (it's not a great cafeteria) but they're there. Restaurants are tougher. I've already decided that since my Omaha trips are infrequent, I will budget in one steakhouse meal, with the concession that there won't be dessert (and I never drink alcohol so that's not an issue). Steak and sides and salad, though, are open season for that one meal.

Oh, also challenging is my general trend toward "I hate traveling and Omaha trips are a challenge so I deserve <insert unhealthy and binge-y food choice>." Gotta work on that.

Updated: Day three of avoiding the Haagen Dasz ice cream bars and cookies at work. Continued to devour the workplace mandarin oranges (three today) and veggie tray (carrots and tomatoes, but skipped the hummus today). They love to feed us at work, and I'm glad they've started getting some healthy options along with the junk.

Hi everyone. I'm new to the thread.

All of your posts seemed so familiar to me.

Lately my thing is late night binges. I have to give one of my dogs a pill at 1am but I usually fall asleep before that. So at one I get up and do my bedtime chores, give him his pill, take the dogs out, and stand in the kitchen and EAT. My downfall is bread. Carbs in general, fat and salt. I don't have a problem with sugar.

I am going to start a thread for myself, though of course I would love company. I plan to post in it when I wake up from my catnap before I go to the kitchen for dog pill.

You all have made me curious about OA. There seems to be mixed opinions on it. Would love to hear your experiences.

I'm going to hang out on here for a while, because I reckon food addiction is my problem.
I've tried OA, I really hated them because they all seemed whingy, and handing over their personal power and responsibility to God, or a higher power. Which I don't believe in, because I'm an atheist.

Eating lunch out, coffees, and pick & mix chocolates are my downfall at the moment. Counting 10,000 steps a day helps conceal the damage calorie wise, but I really want to lose weight, not maintain at about 200lb.

Welcome Fluffypuppy -- I get up between 1 and 2 am every night for my dogs as well, because two of them won't make it through the night without getting a snack (otherwise they get sick and vomit bile). I have alot of insomnia so I never have a problem giving them a treat in the middle of the night. So I'm right there with you, sister, though I don't eat in the middle of the night. I can understand how that would be a hard habit to break!

Welcome sonickle! I called into a couple OA phone meetings that were too religious for me personally (I'm also an atheist). And, also, I fundamentally believe I do have the power to make the changes necessary in my life, and that, in fact, I am the only person who can. So obviously that particular part of the OA philosophy doesn't work for me at all. I have heard that OA can vary alot from group to group, though. I also tried working with an online sponsor but she was entirely too rigid and controlling (her way was the only way) and I couldn't make it work for me.

But for some people, I hear it really, really helps.

The compelling part of OA for me is the support. Like others I had problems with the religious aspect, and couldn't make it work. But I do believe that having a support group is really, really helpful, which is what I am hoping I can get here.

Hi everyone. Good to see you Mrs. Snark.

I beat the binge monster last night by giving my dog his pill before I fell asleep. I felt a bit anxious about it cuz I worried it would be bad for him or he wouldn't make it through the night bladder wise but I think it was ok.

I left a message at a centre that offers support groups for eating disorders to see if they have anything for binge eating. I used to go there years ago and know they do, but couldn't find it on their web site. I don't think it'll fit with my schedule as most programs are in the evening and I work evenings. Worth a shot I thought. Of course I am a little uncomfortable going somewhere where there might be underweight people.

I did some research on OA and I think I would have trouble with the higher power aspect too. A sponsor sounds attractive but if they are totally indoctrinated, it might just feel like guilt.

Been on an 8 or 9 day bender. All the addictive behaviours, hiding my eating, going from store to store so they don't see how much I'm eating.

Had a good day Tuesday. Low cal and no trigger foods. Yesterday my day was okay although I ate (drank) way too much caffeine so I skipped the gym because last time it maxed my heart rate and gave me chest pain. Then instead of working out or doing homework I ate. I ate trigger foods and allergy foods and ended up on a full out binge (not what a dieter calls a binge a subjectively diagnosable binge). I hate that I seem to have moved beyond my somewhat smaller scale emotional eating into the other end of the eating disorder spectrum (from my former ED of anorexia). I told my pdoc about my behaviour on Tuesday and will talk to her again on Thursday next week.

Today I am fasting. I know that can lead to a binge, but it seems to work for me. I can eat normally. I can fast. Neither of these things leads to a binge. Emotions and eating that first bite of a trigger food, that does it.

Just got back from the gym and killed it with a 20 min run and about 2 hours legs, glutes and chin ups just because I like chin ups. And skipping when I wasn't too tired. Apparently burned over 900 cals, but my heart rate is slightly higher than normal so that would put my measure up.

Amethyst-- good job on the workout! Sorry to hear you have swung to the other extreme. I can relate.

I am currently looking for a new gp because my pdoc is retiring and referring all his patients to their gp rather than a new psychiatrist. I saw a new gp last week and liked him but have since come to the conclusion that I want a woman. So I am meeting with another on Thursday. She is my brother's dr and he really likes her so hopefully I will too.

Today I had bread which is a trigger food and I find myself eating frequently but small amounts so I think I am in control sort of.

Oh, on the OA topic, a friend of mine recently came 'out of the closet', so to speak, on food issues. She announced that she is starting Overeaters Anonymous on her Facebook page. I asked her about it some, she's found a meeting nearby that sounds good, there are a few atheists in the group and they went out for coffee afterwards so she got to know them a little better. I'd love to go with her, but it's at 10am M/W/F and I work. She's a student so can make it, but it doesn't work for my schedule.

Fluffy, good luck with the gp. It's sad that we have to take our mental health care anywhere/any way we can get it. I travel 2 1/2 hours each way to see my pdoc. She used to practice in my city when I started with her.

I am using my mindful eating app today (it cost 4.99 i think). I am also fasting so my total is very low 293. I have a killer headache that no water is fixing and I think I'm just working through the allergy food/sugar that I ate yesterday. I hope that works out quickly as sometimes it takes me a week or more to get over eating wheat.

Sending you healing vibes, Ame, and lots and lots of hugs.

Thanks Snark. My stomach hurts today (well abdomen), so I'm not eating until I feel a little better. It usually does not help me heal to stuff myself full of food so I will eat as lightly as possible while healing.

Hi everyone. Having a really stressful time. In brief, my aunt died, my dad is in the hospital and my dogs ate something they shouldn't have. I'm surprised that instead of wanting to binge I have lost my appetite. 665 cals.

Fluffy, I'm sorry to hear all the stress you are going through and of your loss. :hugs: Good job on not bingeing. Try to force yourself to eat tiny bits of healthy food even if you don't want to (like grab some grapes etc). Malnourishment does not help our emotional health.

Thanks Amethyst. Good advice too. Feeling much better today even though all the problems are still there. My dogs appear to be fine at least.

Glad to hear the dogs are doing okay and that you are getting by. Keep going, you can get through this.

I have to say, I kind of let my emotional eating and addictive behaviours get me today. I was supposed to go out for dinner but got stood up so I went out anyway and ended up going shopping, eating and going to the movies (and eating popcorn). I think I stayed within my calories for my high/normal calorie day. Back to fasting tomorrow. We'll see what the scale says, probably some bloating from all the salt, regardless of the calories.

Oh my condolences on your Aunt, fluffypuppy and sending you strength to see you through the other stressful situations! Also sending your dad healing thoughts and strength! I'm so glad your dogs appear to be ok! <<<<<hugs>>>>>>>

Thanks Mrs. Snark. I feel like I have been living under threat since last April when one of my dogs was diagnosed with a herniated disc and the other with cancer. My dad's being sick makes me just feel like I'm going over the edge.

But I haven't binged in a week! And my weight was down to 144.8 this morning with 144 being my magic number as it was my previous low!

Way to go fluffy!
I had a great lunch for only 244 cals.
I made swiss chard with apples and raisins. I could have eaten the entire batch for under 400 cals I think. I also made a little swiss chard wrap while I was waiting with a little hummus and veggies. What's more amazing is I "don't like" swiss chard. lol It was in my box with some collard greens. I actually used both in the recipe. I saved a bit of both for wraps, but I actually like the collards better because I don't need to cook them first.

Slept in and didn't have breakfast because I was late for my gym date, but I made it to the gym for a back and tricep workout, jumped rope and ran a bit too for 544 cals I think.

Hi everyone, just checking in. I think I've been binge-free for nearly five weeks now, which feels like a record. It's funny, I don't have the urge to binge, but if I think about binging -- like buying a dozen donuts and eating them all -- I'm still like, "I could totally do that. I don't want to right now, but I easily could."

I cut back heavily on sugar last month, I'd been eating binging on it every day but last month my 'processed sugar' consumption was pretty limited. I had a tiny piece of cheesecake once, and a little sliver of coffee cake. Last Friday I had a half-size slice of birthday cake, we were celebrating a friend's birthday. I was worried it might set me off but it didn't.

I still don't feel like I'm in control enough to have ice cream or anything in the house, though.

Thanks Amethyst!
Wtg Rabid!

I successfully fought off a binge tonight! I am starting (why just "starting" after all these years idk) to recognize the earlier warning signs and that is helping. I posted in my binge delaying thread and practiced oboe and piano and feel so much better now! The worries are starting to creep back in though. I may have another fight before the night is out.