QOTD-

I had some test done and was told my ideal weight range was 178-188 for my build. Which is what I was aiming for anyway. I'm 5'10" tall and have a big build under the flabbiness so the ideal weight most websites say of like 140 is crazy. My lean body mass is 143lbs which is basically everything but fat. Unfortunately my percent body fat is 41.0% so that needs to go down. So I don't think my goal is unrealistic. I'm never going to be skinny. I'm not built that way.

QOTD:
Are you shooting for a goal that you believe you can maintain? I also don't have a number set in stone. I'll see when I get closer. I do think that beween 150-160 will be doable.

Are you trying to recapture a happier time in your life through a magical number on the scale? Nope, I've honestly never been happier. Sure, I've been happier with my body in the past...but not my life.

How will you feel if you don't reach that goal, but find one that is a more reasonable?I need to reach my goal this time. I got down to 172 10 years ago. Not my goal, but I got stuck there and then eventually let go. I was wearing size 10's. But I didn't feel "done", and obviously that is still overweight for someone who's 5'6.5". I think 150-160 is a good reasonable number for someone with my build.

Originally Posted by kgood2005:
QOTD-

I had some test done and was told my ideal weight range was 178-188 for my build. Which is what I was aiming for anyway. I'm 5'10" tall and have a big build under the flabbiness so the ideal weight most websites say of like 140 is crazy. My lean body mass is 143lbs which is basically everything but fat. Unfortunately my percent body fat is 41.0% so that needs to go down. So I don't think my goal is unrealistic. I'm never going to be skinny. I'm not built that way.

What kind of test and where did you get it done at? I'd love to have someone tell me if I'm being realistic.

I was happy to see the - 2.2 pounds this week. I'm trying really hard to stick to a plan. I feel like being on the team I'm not just doing it for myself anymore I'm trying hard to do it for myself plus my team.

I was hoping to see us come in as the BL this week, I hope we still do :carrot: I saw that we had some stay the same and some who gained. Try to hang in there next week you should lose if this was a gain due to water gain that women sometimes get durning their monthly.

Hope everyone works out a little harder this week! If your not doing it for yourself come on do it for the TEAM!

I'm heading out the door to take a nice long walk.

Are you shooting for a goal that you believe you can maintain? My goal is a 'healthy BMI'. That puts me at 153 says the charts. I am a hair under 5' 6" so I do think that is very doable. I think I have a small frame buried under all my flab. Most of it sits right in my abdomen though so my other goal would be anything small then a size 10 no matter the weight.

Are you trying to recapture a happier time in your life through a magical number on the scale? I have no magical number memories. Starting in 6th grade every year I got larger and larger. I have no happy memories of a great weight to compare them to. Just people and places and those are irrelevant now.

How will you feel if you don't reach that goal, but find one that is a more reasonable? Even if I never reach the 153#, size 8 goal I think I can be happy at any size that doesn't come with a W. Since I have seen 14W I guess I want to be smaller than that.

In the grand scheme of things though every day is a new day and as long as I am make some progress I am happy. I don't need to be the hare in this race. The most weight I have ever lost is when we were trying to get pregnant. I dropped 20 pounds in about 5 months by going to Curves 5-6 days a week and doing extra workouts there with the trainer. I still ate what ever I wanted so after I had the kids the weight came right back. I am looking to create a better, healthier me that will be around to see my babies grow up. I'm happy with 1-2 pounds loss a month. Any more than that is a bonus and to me means that I have learned something new in this way of life.

Originally Posted by onthetee:
Is your goal realistic?
Are you shooting for a goal that you believe you can maintain? Are you trying to recapture a happier time in your life through a magical number on the scale? How will you feel if you don't reach that goal, but find one that is a more reasonable?

I set my goal as 150 just to have a number. I'm not trying to recapture a happier time because I've only been thin for about 10 minutes out of my whole life! :D Seriously, I don't ever remember being thin. I've been told that I was thin as a young child. Then, puberty hit me with a ton of bricks...and, an incident with a pervert in my family:mad:....and, I've been overweight ever since. I just started calorie counting and all of the calculators put me at around 1200-1300 a day just to lose 2 pounds a week. I know these calculators aren't exact. But, if I have to severely restrict my calories just to reach and maintain at 150 for the rest of my life...well, 175 sounds a lot better! :D We'll see what happens. Hopefully, I'll be making that decision sometime later this year.

QOTD:

I think I am setting myself a reasonable goal. 100 lbs in 2008. Which puts me at 175lbs/ 5'6. That is still an "overweight" BMI, which I am more than happy with.

I haven't set myself an actual final goal weight...I will do what my body tells me. Would I like to be slimmer than 175? Sure!! Will I try once I am there! You betcha. But it's not a magical number for me (as in a high school weight or...).

It's just 100lbs. in one year. That's my goal. I intend 100% to reach that goal and nothing, no one, no anniversary, special occasion, family BBQ, bull**** must-eat-dinner, fast-food craving is going to get me to stop trying to reach my goal. If it's not good for me, I'm not eating it. Period.

I'm doing it for my boys, for my hubby, for my family and mostly for ME. I am sick-an-tired of being fat, of not being able to do things and feeling uncomfortable all the time. It's sucks.

Being 175lbs will change everything. I can't wait till 2009!!!

Cheers,
Ginger

PS. 154 lbs is the top of the "normal range". Maybe I'll get there, maybe not? Who knows :)

Originally Posted by dixiedieter:
What kind of test and where did you get it done at? I'd love to have someone tell me if I'm being realistic.

It's basic math that you can do yourself if you have all the right information. First you need a pretty accurate estimate of your body fat. Either from a caliper measurement done at a gym or a tanita scale. Once you know your bf%, you can figure out your lean muscle mass. Once you have your LMM, you can add to that like a certain percentage of fat you would like to be, say 25%, to get an accurate goal weight. Now, I have heard it said that an obese person will not only lose fat, but will also lose some water weight as well as blood volume, and lean muscle, just because as you reduce, you really don't need all that much stuff in volume to maintain your smaller frame. So while you will lose additional lean matter as you slim, it's at least a good starting point. You just need to adjust it as you go along.

So for example, a 250 lb girl with 50% bf, to make it easy. This girl has approximately 125 lbs of fat and 125 lbs of lean muscle, blood volume, etc. So let's go with her lean mass of 125 and assume of course that you don't want to lose any of your muscle. So 125 is our new base. If you want to be 25% body fat, then you figure out at which weight 25% fat would leave you with 125lbs lean - or basically your 75% remainder. In this case, the magic number if 166-167. Because if you take 75% of 167, the number is 125, which is your current lean body mass.

So you see, alot of times, people are choosing these way crazy numbers which would require them to actually lose lean body mass. I'd be happy to help you guys figure out your numbers if you're having trouble following this example. Granted, as you drop, you will lose blood volume, water, etc., that may lower your number, but yes, it's really crazy for anyone to pick a number from a height/wt chart or a w/l clinic's recommendation for example, without knowing what their own individual body composition is made of.

Don't even get me started on BMI charts, which are a total universe based on averages only. Most muscular people will show as overweight on BMI charts simply because their body composition (muscle) makes them heavier than average. It's a fancier name for the old Metropolitan Life Ins. heigh and weight charts, because it really is no other data points that ht/wt. Now, if you wanted to add in a neck and waist measurement, then it would start having some meaning. I know the military is big on neck measurements bc alot of their very fit guys blow the bmi charts away due to their heavy muscle weight. But they all have good waist/neck ratios as well. :)

Does anyone care if the exercise challenge math is all screwed up :?: I always check that someone wasn't posting at the same time as me and have had to change my math a couple times...but I look down and see posts using the same starting number or the wrong starting number...is anyone watching this, or it's all good on its own? I guess I"m a perfectionist, it worries me for some reason :)

I had to force myself to exercise today. I just feel lazy and blah, but I got it done, even if it wasn't with all the energy and enthusiasm that I normally have. I just am feeling depressed, probably because the days are so dreary and cold and I'm not getting enough sunlight :( It's supposed to get to 60 tomorrow but with rain of course :shrug:

I hope everyone else is feeling happier than I am tonight. I'm going to bed!

Originally Posted by Purplefirefly:
Does anyone care if the exercise challenge math is all screwed up :?: I always check that someone wasn't posting at the same time as me and have had to change my math a couple times...but I look down and see posts using the same starting number or the wrong starting number...is anyone watching this, or it's all good on its own? I guess I"m a perfectionist, it worries me for some reason :)

This is annoying the crap out of me as well. I have been religiously checking it. I am weird. I have corrected it a few times already. Then tonight when I went to post I looked and someone posted the exact same time I did so I had to fix mine.

I went back and looked at it again and you were probably posting while I was fixing mine. Oops. There are an extra 6 minutes on there from a few posts ago (#675) where it looks like someone just hit the wrong key.

So far we are missing 5 weigh ins this week. They only have a few minutes left and it doesn't appear that any of them are online now. :(

Black team appears to be missing 9 people so far. Red is missing 6 I think.

I need to get a life and stop obsessing about things. I just really want everyone to succeed.

zinke - I've been obsessively watching the weigh-ins too. I'm REALLY sad and disappointed to see that it looks like all three teams will lose a few people this week, for not weighing in last week OR this week. How sad. :(

I don't think we will technically lose them until next week. This would be freebie week #2.

I was a little worried about myself at first. Then I decided I needed to focus on myself more and I gave up another site that I posted/lurked at ALL the time. I have so much free time during my days now. Now I obsess about here. Much healthier environment, lol.

Originally Posted by Purplefirefly:
Does anyone care if the exercise challenge math is all screwed up :?: I always check that someone wasn't posting at the same time as me and have had to change my math a couple times...but I look down and see posts using the same starting number or the wrong starting number...is anyone watching this, or it's all good on its own? I guess I"m a perfectionist, it worries me for some reason :)

I guess I am a perfectionist too because it drove me so batty I just stopped posting my exercise in it and just go to the one on the actual exercise board. Not to mention someone got snotty with me when I mentioned something about it, lol!

Originally Posted by Diva:
I guess I am a perfectionist too because it drove me so batty I just stopped posting my exercise in it and just go to the one on the actual exercise board. Not to mention someone got snotty with me when I mentioned something about it, lol!

Who was that? :o

Ok, glad I am not the only one who notices! I thought about adding up all the minutes and posting the correct number, but it would just get messed up again so I decided not to waste my time. I will just post and try not to think of how off it might be, but it will be hard!

Diva--I like posting my exercise so have just kept doing it...and I did see where someone got a bit smart with you on there awhile back, something about fixing it. I actually thought about that when I posted my question here, thinking I might get it just as you did :lol: but I guess I didn't care, I was grumpy and it was bothering me last night.

Zinke--:cheer: focusing on yourself is good...ditching another group for us even better:D I'm glad you stayed around.

Originally Posted by Purplefirefly:
Ok, glad I am not the only one who notices! I thought about adding up all the minutes and posting the correct number, but it would just get messed up again so I decided not to waste my time. I will just post and try not to think of how off it might be, but it will be hard!

Diva--I like posting my exercise so have just kept doing it...and I did see where someone got a bit smart with you on there awhile back, something about fixing it. I actually thought about that when I posted my question here, thinking I might get it just as you did :lol: but I guess I didn't care, I was grumpy and it was bothering me last night.

Zinke--:cheer: focusing on yourself is good...ditching another group for us even better:D I'm glad you stayed around.

I like the whole idea of us busting out some miles together, I just think it would be simpler to just post our exercise and ditch the math part since it keeps getting so messed up. As far as peeps jumping on ya, gotta take it with a grain of salt, lol! We can't please everyone. ;)

I think the big thing with the exercise challenge is that we are dealing with such a large number that people get confused. Either that or they are posting at the same time as someone else.

Don't stress it. If we are off my 10 minutes, theres still 200,000 + to go so it will all get made up somewhere

Well really my weight loss was a combination of moving things off of a third floor apartment and painting.

I know when I painted my master bedroom alone on Saturday for 6 hours Fitday said I had burned 1502 calories. I think my biggest time of actual paint was doing the trim work and trimming out around the ceiling because you are using a brush instead of a roller so your wrist is doing a lot of the work.

Just remember to get those lunges in when you are rolling! :lol:

Originally Posted by chellez:
I think my biggest time of actual paint was doing the trim work and trimming out around the ceiling because you are using a brush instead of a roller so your wrist is doing a lot of the work.

Michelle, I wish I had mentioned this earlier..before you did all of that painting...but, have you tried the edger pads? Between my old house, my Mom's house, my brothers house...etc etc, I've probably painted about 50 rooms. The trim pads are awesome!

http://www.doityourself.com/invt/u635870

Good morning, Bluesers!

Yesterday was my first day with calorie counting. I started off with one of three 1200 calorie days for the week. By last evening, I was starving! I need to take another look at my day and see if I can work in a bit more protein and healthy fats. This morning, I woke up with a terrible headache. I think the headache is because I was hungry. The very very good news is that my 2 pound gain is already gone. Yep, overnight I lost it. It must have been water weight from the sodium. So, this week, I should be able to post a great loss for the team. Go Blue! Today, I get to eat 1400 calories, so we'll see how I feel tonight. I hate to have to increase my daily calories too much as I really want to lose 2 pounds a week. Going by most of the calculators, I have to stay fairly low to lose 2 pounds. We'll see what happens this week.

I better get to work. With sleep in today due to the headache, I'm running a bit behind. Hope everyone has a great on-plan day!

I was getting angst about the math too, and in fact, I was pm'ing Chelle about it on a daily basis for a few days before I had to just let it go. It seems hopeless to police it daily for whatever reason, so like Chelle said, don't stress about it. It seems like it's going to happen regardless. Diva, I know the person who seemed snippy apologized later and said she didn't mean it, it was just some misinterpretation on both sides, right? BTW, your pic on your profile page is beautiful. You should move it up into your signature so everyone sees it! You have amazing hair & I am about bald by comparison, so I am always envious of deliciously thick hair!

Tuesday's question of the day:

How important is drinking water to you? What differences do you notice in your weight loss, appearance, etc, from drinking extra water?

Originally Posted by :
GirlyGirlSebas Tuesday's question of the day:

How important is drinking water to you? What differences do you notice in your weight loss, appearance, etc, from drinking extra water?

I try and get down at least 35 ounces a day but it's a struggle. I wish I could get down more and I am working on it. It does make me feel fuller, but only when combined with some fiber or protein. In my case, being full on water does nothing but make a well hydrated hungry person! LOL! I can get down 65 when I exercise really hard because I get so thursty.

I also like it's affect on my skin and keeping me flushed. :)


Thank you very much Fran. :) Yes she apologized to me for being snippy.

Anywho, Rhonda, I am back to counting as well and going by the You on a Diet and I have noticed that I don't lose weight at all if I eat less than 1400 calories. isn't that weird? So I keep it to 1400 to 1800 and of course try and get at least 30 minutes a day of walking or some sort of physical activity.

Mornin' Blue Team,

Rhonda: Good question. I go through phases with water and I don't know if it really helps my weight loss, but it does make me feel like a happier and healthier person if I'm drinking at least 2-3L every day. But it totally depends on having a good water bottle - there's a great article on slate.com from a few months back where they tested out a ton of different ones, and I bought the one they ranked highest, which I really like. (Although my roommate makes fun of me for it because it looks like an IV bag...)

Fran & Roni: The exercise challenge math thing is aggravating, but I tend to only look at the last couple of posts above mine. If you know what the number is really supposed to be, maybe you could just use that on your post, and then the next person will subtract from your number. Just a thought, but I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing and figure it out.


I just went back and looked at my food diary from August thru October of last year, when I successfully lost 10 lb and was feeling great. Definitely helpful, and I need to get back in that mindset because I was so devoted to taking care of myself. I am reintroducing the protein shake into my diet as of today - that was something I used to very good effect back then, even though it's not my favorite thing to eat/drink. I'm a vegan so I make it with sugar-free cappuccino flavor soy milk, mixed with chocolate protein powder. Tastes like a (slightly chalky) mocha milkshake.

Hope everyone is having a great day!

Oh water is a big one for me! If I don't keep up with 48-64oz a day, I get thirsty but interpret it as hunger... and then I snack snack snack! Also, I do it for other benefits - my skin stays clearer, my asthma stays well-managed because I don't get as much inflammation, etc!

So... for those of you who don't know Vancouver... we don't usually get winter. It gets cold, with temperatures between -10C and 8C, rains a lot, gets windy sometimes. We get snow maybe once or a twice, but not much.

Well I woke up to almost six inches this morning!! It's going to be a looooooong, cold commute this morning! :brr: Maybe I can get hot chocolate and burn off the calories by shivering? ;)

Have you gotten any exercise today?



Attachment 28279

Originally Posted by GirlyGirlSebas:
Tuesday's question of the day:

How important is drinking water to you? What differences do you notice in your weight loss, appearance, etc, from drinking extra water?

I try and get at least 72oz each day. I have found that my nails and hair grow faster. My hair even looks better. I usually have VERY dry skin in the winter, but this winter, it hasn't been as bad, not sure if it is the water or just better eating in general, but my bet is on the water.

I also thinks it helps me loss weight. I carry around a 24 oz sports bottle and try to drink constantly. I don't get nearly as hungry with getting the water in daily.

DIVA: I have fixed the math on the exercise challange 2 times (I fixed it that time someone got a little in your face about you asking about the math). I have just had to let it go. The thread is too long for me to go through and try and fix it now so we will just have to accept that we are losing some miles (I know that is hard for someone anal like me:dizzy:)

EVERYONE: I want to extend a personal challange to all the Blue Team Members to get in some extra exercise tonight during TBL. I will get at least 100 minutes in. Let me know what you get tonight!

Have a great POP Day!

Originally Posted by krjpy:
EVERYONE: I want to extend a personal challange to all the Blue Team Members to get in some extra exercise tonight during TBL. I will get at least 100 minutes in. Let me know what you get tonight!

I have to work tonight so I'm going to miss it again. Tonight I think I have to do the layouts in our Carseats and Strollers and other matching pieces layouts so I usually get a workout putting them all together. I hope its not tonight though that they want me to do it. It'll take all night. On the other hand if I don't I'll probably end up doing the tedious resets in cosmetics. They are awful.

QOTD: Love H2O!! I drink 3-4 Nalgene bottles a day - so 108oz+. Especially if I have a intense workout.

Rhonda - I'm so happy you saw results already!!! I'm resisting lowering my calories to 1400, but I may start more zig-zagging soon.

Wow, I hope I haven't messed up the exercise thread! I always go back after I hit "post" and make sure someone else didn't post at the same time - but I don't ever look any deeper than that.

Marianne - hope you got to work all safe and sound! Vancouver probably resembles SEA when it snows...a complete chaiotic mess! My commute yesterday was awful. We got more snow yesterday than we did overnight. I'm at home today, so not worried about it though.

I KNOW week 3 is going to be a great week for us!! Maybe we won last week? I didn't see the final numnbers for black yet. It's time for one of my *drops* on the scale. I tend to lose a little for a couple weeks and then loose a nice chuck. I've only managed to lose 3.5 pounds over the past 2 weeks. I'm excited to take measurements on Thursday too!

Regarding working out the TBL - I'm planning on going to the gym when my girls wake up - letting them sleep in today. I may do some stretches/core on the floor later tonight though. But not a big workout.

So I went and looked at the black weigh in thread and they posted some good losses this week - but there were some gains also. It's going to be close between all 3 teams I think!

Where do you work Karen?

I work at Kmart. I left 3 years ago to work for Kohl's. Not sure wh I went back. Its a different store at least. Smaller than my first which isn't a Kmart anymore anyway. If I knew then the benefits they took away from part timers and full timers I might of reconsidered. But it is alot closer to where I live, I get more money, and my old boss I loved was working there now too. At least I'm full time so I still get most of the old benefits.

QOTD: I'm already half way through my second 32 oz. bottle of water today. I usually drink around 110-120 oz. or so each day. At work, I keep a 32 oz. bottle on my desk and I usually finish one bottle before lunch and one bottle after. Then, I'll go through another 32 oz. bottle at the gym. Add in whatever I drink with dinner or my evening snack, and you've got my total for the day. And, miraculously, I'm not spending all day in the bathroom. :o

Of course, I also drink about 3 cans of Diet Coke and two cups of coffee a day, so that probably counterbalances a lot of my good water drinking! :)

Okay so I got to work safely! It took almost 30mins longer than usual though! It's still snowing lightly, but it's supposed to RAIN tonight... ugh that's going to be messy. I think I will probably leave work early today, go toboganning for a bit, and then finish my workday from home after DBF goes to work tonight!

Rhonda - Bwahaha I'll be getting plenty of that cartoon's exercise today!

Kelly - I hadn't even thought about what water does for my hair and nails, but now that I think about it, they are both growing better and stronger now that I'm consistent with getting in a lot of water each day! I'll probably be cleaning during TBL tonight, so that'll be some non-exercise-exercise, if that makes sense?

Nori - It sounds like WA is getting more of a dump than BC is, from the news. Hope you stay safe and enjoy it too!

Erin - I am baffled at how you drink so much! I would constantly be in the loo. :D

Body fat measurements and the measuring tape are recognized as superior methods for measuring "weight loss". When one declares that they want to "lose weight", what they often mean is that they want to lose fat. So, now that you've had your body fat percentage measured, what does the number really mean? http://www.healthchecksystems.com/images/scale.jpg
First, your body fat percentage is simply the percentage of fat your body contains. If you are 150 pounds and 10% fat, it means that your body consists of 15 pounds fat and 135 pounds lean body mass (bone, muscle, organ tissue, blood and everything else).
A certain amount of fat is essential to bodily functions. Fat regulates body temperature, cushions and insulates organs and tissues and is the main form of the body's energy storage. The following table describes body fat ranges and their associated categories:
*General Body Fat Percentage Categories

ClassificationWomen (% fat)Men (% fat)Essential Fat10-12%2-4%Athletes14-20%6-13%Fitness21-24%14-17%Acceptable25-31%18-25%Obese32% plus25% plus*American Council on Exercise
Knowing your body fat percentage can also help you determine if your weight loss goals are realistic. Remember, weight loss doesn't always mean fat loss. For example:

Let's say you're a 130# woman with 23% body fat, and you goal is to "lose 20 pounds":
A better goal might be for the woman to reduce her body fat from 23% to 18%. In this case:

I'm still having trouble with getting an accurate body fat measurement. My gym doesn't do weights and measures, it's a spa/gym, heavy emphasis on spa. But it's free and close to the house, so I make do. My Tanita scales show the same body fat % as when I was 29 pounds heavier, so I get discouraged and don't use that as an indicator. I mean really, I work out over an hour a day, I have to be building some muscle and losing some fat, right?

I want to get my BMR tested, and my body fat. I wonder if another gym could do that for me?

Originally Posted by dixiedieter:
I'm still having trouble with getting an accurate body fat measurement. My gym doesn't do weights and measures, it's a spa/gym, heavy emphasis on spa. But it's free and close to the house, so I make do. My Tanita scales show the same body fat % as when I was 29 pounds heavier, so I get discouraged and don't use that as an indicator. I mean really, I work out over an hour a day, I have to be building some muscle and losing some fat, right?

I want to get my BMR tested, and my body fat. I wonder if another gym could do that for me?

Not necessarily. I mean, your ratios could be staying the same, kwim? You've lost weight, but body composition is the same. Unless you are lifting weight (& maybe you are) I wouldn't expect to build muscle just from working out/curves type stuff or cardio. You really have to train with weights fairly hard to build measurable muscle difference. You could be losing fat but also muscle at the same rate, making your percentages remain about the same.

:)

I just wanted to say that I really appreciate all the work the team leaders put into this and how much support the team mates provide too. I am glad Chellez was made moderator too. She's been really fair, helpful and mature about things. :D

I sometimes feel like an emotional, hormonal freak. :o :lol: Maybe I should filter myself more but I ultimately don't see the harm in being honest. I speak from the heart when I say that this board and this forum in particular helps keep me focused, gives me the accountability I need and don't get in my "real" life.

Thanks, everyone!!! :hug:

It seems like a lot of us are struggling. :( Why can't it feel easy like it LOOKS on the show??? (I know, I know, they have NOTHING else to worry about besides eating healthy and working out and dealing with their emotions!) I myself slacked for a couple of days but today am back where I need to be.

My challenge right now is finding time to workout. My kids are doing some crazy stuff during nap time and only giving me "me" time in ten minute bursts. So I got about 8 minutes done (took me 2 minutes to change my shoes and put in the DVD), then had to stop for 4 or 5 minutes to console a child, got another 4 minutes done, had to stop again.... I gave up after that. Twelve minutes. Not very good. I also took a short walk this morning. Still... it's tough.

Originally Posted by GirlyGirlSebas:
Tuesday's question of the day:

How important is drinking water to you? What differences do you notice in your weight loss, appearance, etc, from drinking extra water?

Other than having to pee a lot and not getting such a bad headache in the evening (there's still a headache, but it's much less), no difference for me. I have one of those Pur pitchers and I try to refill it three or four times.