Hi mizski
Thanks for your input...
I am on waiting list at my library for the Atkins book. All I learned about the diet was from reading here and there online... and that was when I had the idea of going on and off of it.
But before start anything I figured I would ask who already know the diet for an input while I read the book.
My problem with carbs is that I love all the WRONG kinds (and am not willing to live without them) and have no control of it (portion wise) once I put it in my mouth...
Quote:
What is/was your CLL and what is your ACE?
I can't answer you this because I don't know what they mean... maybe after reading the book???
I've manage to keep my carbs consumption only on the weekends for almost a year now... and I have no problem going back OP on Monday (I actually look forward to it since I feel so bloated Sunday nights), because I know I'll have the treats again next weekend.
I know any plan that tells me I can't have anything EVER again or that make me measure small portions of foods I love won't work for me long run, just because I am not good in dealing with this situation. I am a rebel, so if you tell me I CAN'T do something, that is when I WANT to do that very badly... That's horrible, I know... but what can I do??? that's who I am...
(and am not willing to live without them) and have no control of it (portion wise) once I put it in my mouth...
I think that as long as this is your attitude then you will struggle. Losing weight calls for a healthy change in how we see food. As long as you let the food have control then weight loss becomes much more difficult. If you will not control what you eat and then cannot control how much of it you eat I don't see the point in what you do.
I didn't get fat eating vegetables and healthy carbs. I got fat eating bread and treats and processed carbs. I didn't eat them every day but I ate them when I wanted so in reality not a whole lot different from what you are doing, you just limit it to 2 days out of 7.
Bottom line ..... calories and carbs in = pounds gained and lost.
You still have to do what works for you ..... but expecting that you will see good consistent results may be unrealistic.
I knew that statement could somehow bring some controversia...
But each person know how they react to situations... In my case, to eat (in general) is a pleasure... to eat carbs is something out of extraordinary to me... It makes me feel happy... I guess is the addiction talking and unfortunately I am powerless in dealing with it... I made my life miserable before, trying to quite bad carbs (when I had to “lock” myself from the world’s events) and don’t want to go through this again... Life is too short to be unsocial or to go to places where people eat stuff in front of you and you literally drool on their plates (I could not even carry a whole conversation).
So, why deny myself from one of my most pleasure in life? Sugar/carbs for me are better than sex... I rather have an ice cream than sex... (and, hey.... I know it isn’t my partner’s fault - LOL)
So it would be like to tell someone to give up having sex with his/her spouse... Yes, people can live without sex, but when they have no option... In my case the bad carbs are there showing themselves to me all the time... and it is like shooting myself at my head to say NO to them...
So, the best way I found to deal with my addiction was making some rules in my life... is it hard to say no to a piece of cake at the office’s party??? Oh, YES!!! but it is a lot easier when I think it is ok, because I’ll have it when the weekend come... It makes me feel less bad!!!
Trust me, I WISH I could control myself in front of bad carbs... If I could I would not have a problem, right??
So, making those rules was the best way (maybe not the perfect, maybe not for everyone else) I found to deal with MY OWN problem so far...
Maybe some day I’ll find some other way, who knows?
I’ll never give up on looking... that is why I posted this threat at first place... I am still trying to find the best way to deal with my sugar/carb addiction...
I’ll die trying... and I'll look everyone for it, even here at 3FC (where by the way, I found a lot help)
As to your original question "Would that work?" I think probably not, but I don't mean to discourage you from trying. It's worth a shot, I suppose. I can't urge you not to experiment, because I've been on the same experiment for 4 years.
I've been trying to find a way to incorporate higher-carb foods into my diet occasionally for about the last 4 years. It's why, I suppose that it's taken me four years to lose 80 lbs.
It's taken me four years to realize the experiment has reached a dead-end. I need to come to terms with the fact that the foods I think I can't live without are the foods that are preventing me from losing more weight. I can choose to live without the foods, or I can choose to maintain my weight at 311 lbs.
Maybe there's a compromise position, but I haven't found it yet (two days a week is definitely not the successful compromise. Even one or two days a month doesn't seem to cut it for me). You could be different, I don't know.
The biggest problem for me is that even a relatively small indulgence drives the cravings for more and more and more. It makes the low-carb days seem horrible instead of enjoyable, whereas the longer I'm off refined carbs, the more I enjoy the foods that are definitely not "better than sex."
I'm not saying this is true for everyone. You may find a way to incorporate two off-plan days into your weight-control plan. I certainly wish you better luck with the attempt that I had. And if you're ok with the results you get, in order to have the off-plan days, that's certainly an option.
I was ok with taking 4 years to lose 80 lbs. It was worth it to me, to have my indulgences, but I'm not satisfied with a loss of less than 20 lbs a year anymore, so I have to change something. For the last four years, but the last six months expecially, I've been trying really hard to find out how many "better than sex" foods I can include in my diet, and how often, and I haven't found a safe amount yet. I think four years is definitely long enough for me to realize that there is no safe amount (and there may never be).
That doesn't mean I expect never to give into temptation, with food addiction, few manage perfect abstinance - but planning them in as a regular indulgence doesn't work for everyone either.
I do know that I cannot have it both ways. "I won't give it up," and "I can't control it," are not compatible truths (unless you decide to give up weight loss as a goal). I think you have to learn to control it OR give it up.
"I won't give it up," "why deny myself my greatest pleasure in life," " it makes me happy," "life is to short not to experience a high this great," "everyone does it, I don't want to feel left out," "You can't enjoy life without it," "it's better than sex," "I am powerless in dealing with it"...
When people say things like this about any substances/behaviors other than foods, we would not encourage the person to continue including those things in their life on a regular basis. The fact is, whether you're talking about heroine or carbs, it's very difficult to scale back to moderation once you've become dependent on the excess.
I'm more and more convinced that carb-addiction is not only real, but that sugar is at least as addictive hard drugs (the success rate for abstinance is far lower - but then again, virtually no one is encouraging heroine addicts to learn to use in moderation. And almost no one is telling carb-addicts to eliminate sugar and starcy foods forever).
In college and graduate school,studying substance abuse and addictive behaviors (like gambling), we learned that there are a few people who seem to be able to return to moderate use of their addictive behavior. Smokers who can have one cigarette. Alcoholics who can have one drink. Gamblers who can buy one lottery ticket per week. Prescription and recreational drug addicts who can use their substance of choice occasionally.
The "success stories" do exist, they're just extremely rare, and I suspect the statistics for food addiction are worse (because the foods are "pushed" far more aggressively than any street drug), but that doesn't mean successful reintegration isn't possible, just very unusual, and probably something many (if not most) may not be able to accomplish.
Hi kaplods, thanks for sharing your point of view with me... Your posts are always so clever and knowledgeable. You are absolutely right about sugar being as addictive as hard drugs... I am the alive proof of it...
I need help as much as any addicted to hard drugs.
I am totally aware of it, the only problem is that I don’t have any funds to do it right now... so, unfortunately, for now, I need to deal with it the best I can and when I can afford, I’ll look for professional help... I know it doesn’t mean I will get better, but at least it is a hope
Hi kaplods, thanks for sharing your point of view with me... Your posts are always so clever and knowledgeable. You are absolutely right about sugar being as addictive as hard drugs... I am the alive proof of it...
I need help as much as any addicted to hard drugs.
I am totally aware of it, the only problem is that I don’t have any funds to do it right now... so, unfortunately, for now, I need to deal with it the best I can and when I can afford, I’ll look for professional help... I know it doesn’t mean I will get better, but at least it is a hope
Thanks, but I do want to clarifly I'm not suggesting that you need professional help. This may sound weird coming from a person with psych degrees (but my degrees are in behavioral psych and developmental psych - not counseling psych).
Don't get me wrong. I believe therapy can be helpful, but it's not always necessary. I didn't find therapy very helpful for my carb addiction (probably because no one ever suggested that I give up carbs. I doubt that alcohol and drug addiction would be very successful if folks were encouraged to continue using their drug (or behavior) of choice.
Learning moderation is theoretically possible, but I think it's generally more trouble than it's worth.
As tough as it is to consider low-carb a "forever" WOE, I suspect that for many of us - it's the far easier path than trying to learn moderation.
I'm not judging your attempts to do so - because I haven't been successful yet in doing what I'm suggesting. I just have finally come to realize that planning a high-carb weekend is about as sensible as a junkie planning just using heroine on the weekends.
Carb-addiction has to be treated more like sex addiction. Sex isn't necessary so a person could choose life-long celibacy, just as a carb addict could choose life-long Atkins. But there are more moderate levels that can be found. Finding them, though isn't easy.
For the married sex-addict (and the sex-addict who does not wish to be celibate forever) they have to define appropriate sexual behavior and inappropriate sexual behavior.
I think carb-addiction runs the same way. You have to discover which behaviors you can control and in what circumstances - which is what you're attempting.
It took me 4 years to realize that I can't incorporate very-high carb foods into my diet intentionally. It's easier to avoid them altoghether than to play with fire. But I haven't succeeded for very long, so don't judge your experience by mine.
I'm just saying be attentive and honest with yourself. If you find that you can't control your use of high-carb foods, abstinence may be more practical than moderation. Only you can make that determination.
The good news really is that as far as addictions go, food-addictions are more forgiving. I'm not discounting at all the devastating consequences of eating disorders and obesity. However, it's an "easier" addiction to have than many others (doesn't make it easier to treat, but it does make it easier to live with) in the sense (and it's a limited one) that there's less urgency in protecting you from yourself. You don't need to be forced into treatment because you're a danger to loved ones....
That's both a positive and a negative. Because you can function longer, and because the effects are often (at least initially) more subtle it can be very easy to think that problem isn't urgent. That it's not as bad as it is.
I was in that kind of denial for over 35 years. I really did think initially "I'm not hurting anyone." Then when I could no longer deny that I was hurting myself, I thought "I'm not hurting anyone else." When I couldn't deny that, I thought "I can still function, I'm still a productive member of society who works and volunteers to help others...."
Now I'm on disability and can't even cling to that thought. That is not you, though. That is me.
How long you can function, and how well you can function is a critical determiner no matter what your addiction. Even in the mental health care system, people are triaged in the sense that the amount of help the person is thought to need is contingent upon how badly the person's life is falling apart. How well they are functioning, who else they are hurting...."
Even for other addictions, treatment is a matter of degree. And degree also plays a role in whether abstinence or moderation is possible. And that's not just true for food addiction either. It's true in all addiction and substance abuse - the severity of the problem influences the degree of response to it.
If the problem is moderate, the solution can be too. I've only recently really understood that my problem was never moderate. It was severe almost from the beginning. My solution has to be much more drastic than a person's who's never been 250 lbs overweight.
Any reduction in carbs is a healthier option. I don't think it is healthy to do anything in extremes, and doing induction part of the week and high carb the rest of the week is giving the body a lot of deal with. I believe that it may be a better option to try a plan like Sugar Busters, where you are low carb all day and have carbs with your dinner. I can't remember the specifics, but it had to do with a small window of time you could have the carbs.
Otherwise I agree, if you do Atkins as written, you will find your own personal carb level for weight loss and for maintaining your weight. Slow and steady wins every time!
I did a search from the Atkin's threads on constipation. From the results, I came across this thread. I thought it bears re-surfacing as I have been considering the possibility of going off Atkins for one weekend a month and see how that works. The responses here have changed my mind and perspective as I can understand that once I binge, I will have a very difficult time getting back OP. I also don't want the yucky feel of getting back into ketosis.
I hope others find this helpful as well if you have been even remotely questioning the possibility of doing something along these lines.
Small thing here.... When ever I just happen to have refined carbs (I had Crunchy Grouper last Sunday).. my weight loss stops and I also find myself looking for sugary things to eat... whereas I would pass by those things if I had stayed away from "bread" in my case. Its funny how the trigger just raises its head after 1 swallow of the refined carbs (in my case). A lesson learned!
