[denialisnthappiness]

There's not really much I can add that hasn't already been said but it may also be worth remembering that people who join this site have perhaps been on the journey for some time and were bigger at some point... that and obviously the perception thing again. I find as I get smaller (by no means 'small') I no longer compare myself to how I was when finding negatives, I compare myself to how I want to be/smaller people and find negatives... either way never a happy medium with me at the moment lol

Also; when I joined the site I had to think of a name where I couldn't be identified. People who know me irl know about my weight loss now but then? When I was 260lbs and felt desperate and like it was impossible? I didn't want anyone to know - what if I failed! what if I got bigger? I still (and will continue to) love this site, it gives me a 'security' that I can talk about common issues that I can't do with people irl - sure they can see I've lost weight but they don't really understand what it's taken to lose it so far.

Bah I'm rambling - but usernames I think are a mixture of self perception and how the person feels at the time of registering.

[JuleeCeeS]

Not totally on topic...but close...

I recently saw a "documentary" on MTV about 2 adults who were all definately heavy (one guy was about 470) and all of them claimed to love themselves as they were for who they were. One was a young woman who purposely gained 100 lbs (she was about 260 I think) and has found that as a heavier woman she gets more attention from men. Her friends (most were rather thin) said they love her as she is but were all concerned about her health. Her family had the same attitude. She finally went to the doctor who informed her that she did now have HPB and was borderline diabetic due to her weight gain. That gave her a little wake up call...but by the end, her biggest issue was that more department stores should stock more fashionable clothing for women of size and that she shouldn't be deprived the opportunity to look chic and sexy if she chose to weigh what she weighs.

The second gentleman had a different story. He weighed about 470 or so, did have a full-time job, drive a car, etc. etc. and was also very active in his local gay scene (he was gay) and was constantly on the lookout for men who were "chub-chasers" (men who are attracted so men of size). He was busy trying to establish a chub-chaser club in his hometown so he wouldn't have to keep meeting men on the internet who lived far away. During the show, they showed a guy he had met through the internet (very fit and muscular) who came to visit and showed them engaged in quite a bit of flirtatious and affectionate behavior. They also showed him eating...a lot...but he was happy.

What got me was this...they were happy to be heavy because of the attention they got from potential sexual partners. It was just so interesting to see someone who wanted to be objectified sexually for their weight. It seemed so antithetical to typical society...so it made me wonder...were they really happy? Did they think that if they were thinner they would be less appealing, attractive or have less worth? Were they in such a comfort zone that the thought of making a physical change that would benefit their health and well-being in the long run scared them too much? Do people sacrifice health for sexuality?

If this came off as judgemental...it was totally NOT my intention. My reasons for gaining weight for so many years are sort of tied into this (my psychological ones anyways) so I am just really curious and trying to sort out thoughts asn I restart my weight loss journey...yet again.

I still am not sure what to make of it all....thoughts?

[kaplods]

"Do people sacrifice health for sexuality?"

You betcha, though it's just as common, if not more so, in people of normal weight (or close to it). Many people do crazy things to be sexually appealing, whether or not their idea of beauty matches the norm or not. Thin, beautiful women sometimes become addicted to body modification for the sake of beauty and sexuality, having plastic surgery after plastic surgery until they barely look human to most of us. (Joan Rivers and Janice Dickinson come to mind).

I think some people are more willing than others to let someone else (whether it's one person or an entire culture) tell them how they're supposed to look, dress, and act in order to be seen as sexually appealing.

I think my approach to weight loss (and probably my success as well), would have been much different if health had always been my primary motivation. Even at 5 years old, I got the message loud and clear from watching tv and the actions and attitudes of my mom and grandma, that fat was something you had to get rid of as fast as you can, any way you can, in order for people to like you. Crash diets, diet pills, hormone shots, throwing up, diuretics, laxatives, plastic suits, eating weird foods, eating nothing... whatever it took, however horrible, it was all worth it, if it got the weight off and got it off quickly (even if it took years off your life to do it).

[Me23]

ok this thread kind of upsets me, because people whose self esteem is poor enough to think themselves fat when they are slim - like me, on a bad day - do not look at other people and think 'gosh, aren't they fat'. They look at other people and think, gosh, isn't she beautiful/happy/smart/confident/etc...
Like I look at my friends who are not overweight but are bigger than me (I am a very small person, short/105lbs) and think she's so beautiful. It's exactly the same with college work. If I think I haven't performed well enough I berate myself, but it never applies to anyone else. I *never* look at people and think ' wow, look at that fatty'. If they're a little overweight, I don't notice unless they comment on it. If they're extremely overweight, I feel sad for them.

By comparison, my best friend has the most beautiful red hair I've ever seen. It is sleek and thick and shiny and used to reach her bum. One day, she cut it off. Pleased to say, it's growing back apace.

[thinchickie]

I guess I kind of paid attention to screen names before, but not really? I had another screen name on here it was a positive one, before I realized my posts were being read by family.... this is my personal spot, where I don't want things thrown back at me, or things, I just feel belong to me...

My sister is 120 pounds, not overweight and never has been. Her and my dad are both fat phobic, I posted about him over the summer, that was a great supportive thread for me. LOL, but any way, she tries to be sympathetic to me, but comes off horrible.

She will say she is fat, and when I say to her, are you kidding, she tells me I don't get it, like the aczyn said in her post, she was like, I can't stand this extra five pounds on me. She is 6 years older than me and she always had a 'concern' about my weight. She really takes after our dad.

So, since I've been on here this morning, she has called me to continue a talk we had the other night!! she said, you know when you came home for a visit in November, you didn't eat much at all, WE all noticed that and wonder why you are still so heavy..

OH MY GOSH!!!!!!!!! I asked, kind of laughing, knowing I was going to nail her in a minute... who is this WE?????? She said, well, dad, joyce (stepmom) Tom, her boyfriend, her son Chris and my neice.

I said, really, so I was being watched for what I was eating? I had cooked for these people by the way, I made them cakes, which I didn't eat , I made them french stuffed toast, which I ate half of what they did.. but I was being watched. Now, I am totally, wondering how I am going to be about this, this is new...

So, she once again tells me, like the other night, Nutri system will work for me because the super heavy girl at work, she just loves, used it and is losing weight, and I need to look into it. I said, well, DSister, I have my own WW thing going and I have a nutritionist based plan behind that from my oncologist, so I am pretty well set, but thanks for the concern.... and sister, *we really do call each other sister by the way LOL* I said, i am so concerned about your liver...

I didn't want to mention it to you, because really your health is YOUR business, but you drank every single night I was there and kind of heavy, and I am worried about your liver count, you know dad was an alcoholic, maybe he can take you to AA with him before your liver is damaged, you know that's what killed Grandpa...

She wasn't really defensive, she said, yeah, I know. I then proceeded to tell her, her demons might be in a different form, liquor and cigarettes, but mine is food and they are all the same. I can't hide what my demons do to me physically, the fat butt and all, but I can't believe they were all watching what I ate, so they could then tell me what I needed to change.

Well, since I wasn't shoveling in food, I was there 15 days, and I actually lost weight, they couldn't say anything, they are perplexed.. I tried to tell her for the 100th time about my PCOS and how that affects your metabolism, she then tells me she looked it up and it just says 'causes weight gain' but nothing about not being able to lose it.

I proceed to tell her I have a doctor who specializes in it and he told me how it really makes it tougher, but not impossible to lose weight. She THEN asks me, this morning, why they can't give me something to cure that and why they can't help me and am I going to be fat forever????

I asked, calmly, because now I am pretty pissed off, would you not love me anymore if I stayed fat or what? She is my only sister, and when she was little she was about 8-10 years old, she told our grandmother, who I LOVED to death, that she was too fat to go to her school play and it would embarrass her and to stay home.. Can you believe that??

That was my mom's mom, my mom was thin, never an ounce overweight, but she was NOT fat phobic like that at all. My sister drinks and then says whatever she wants. We were at Hooters, I had NEVER been there, she tells me I have to eat the fried pickles they are great. We get them, I eat them, yeah they are great, but then while I am eating this fried pickle, by the way I rarely eat anything fried, she knows this too...

She brings up then, why are you fat and what are you doing about it. When I give an answer it is NEVER NEVER NEVER good enough, so I just immediately bring up what bugs her, her smoking, it killed our mom, and she is a chain smoker. Her boyfriend made her stop, so she was sneaking when I was home for the visit.

She still doesn't get it but seemed like she was starting too, until this call a few minutes ago. Why must thinner people assume you have no clue? I could be a freakin' nutritionist, I am not kidding, I see people doing wrong things to lose, like eating only ramen noodles twice a day, yeah, I know this person and she complains she isn't losing and I say, you need more balance and your body will respond, she looked at me and said, like you'd know....well, whatever...

But now I am so not impressed, I was not only being watched, but two months later, they were discussing my eating habits... she also mentioned our fat aunt, that is my mom's sister, she said, yeah, Aunt Norma used to eat like a bird too, but she was always so fat.

My sister, barely eats, I mean barely, she eats like a bite of sandwich or when we went to hooters, two wings, two pickles and she was like, I am stuffed, but she drinks sooooo much it keeps her weight regular. Her son told me she worries him not eating, But she never was a big eater.

I don't know, I just had to share that, because I am now the PERPLEXED one. LOL who do these people think they are? Why is my weight anymore worse than any of their habits. I don't drink, I used to, years ago but geeeezzz mind your own freakin' business.

Please, I don't want a post saying, they care... I got a lot of private mail actually, last summer about my dad being fat phobic, I got a lot of 'they love you and are concerned' mail... I know all this, but that does not give any one the right to continuously bring this matter up to me. I don't call any of them and bring up any health issues with them.. They are all adults and I figure they know what they are doing to themselves. I am aware, I don't need anybody at act like I am brain dead.

sorry that go so long, but I am so PERPLEXED LOL

I just needed to vent with the 3fchickies here because I know you guys understand.

[Lovely]

Thinchickie - Oh I quite understand! And I think you're handling yourself VERY well. It's hard to tune them out, but I think that eventually something might "click" in your sister's head about her drinking & smoking and that everytime she brings up weight, you bring up her addictions. Yes, yes, she's concerned, but there is concerned and then there is "ENOUGH!"

[NotTheCheat]

I know what you mean about some vices not showing up. I know a guy who has amassed around $100,000 of credit card debt from gambling (no - I am not exaggerating). You would never know about his destructive habit from looking at him. In reality it is no different than overeating, except that issues with food show up on our hips and not on our credit report. Is one really worse than the other? They are both destructive ways to deal with whatever issues we are having at the moment.

[thinchickie]

I had a friend who was a hairdresser, and a few years ago, she was cutting my hair and we were talking about weight, she was super thin and very cute and very vain. LOL, but she asked me, would it help you if people nagged you about your weight, do you think then you'd want to do something about it. (people assume you don't want to 'do' something about it)

I knew she wanted to stop smoking so I posed that same question to her about smoking. Then she was the one who popped that idea into my head and she said, no, it would not help me, but I think its sad, people who are overweight have their personal problem right out there for everyone to judge.

I was so moved by that, I actually went home and cried, I hadn't thought of it that way, but it then gave me something to come back on people with, who assumed that my weight was their problem. I am not mean about it, usually, I try to use the same tone I was getting, if it is concern, I sound concerned when I pose their problems to them, or if it was somebody being just condescending to me, then that's how I come back.

But I just have known some really thin people who suck, and nice people who are heavy, so the heavy person would still be nice thin and the thin one a witch heavy, so people need to quit being so concerned with this appearance thing... they are deceiving.

People, have been quite surprised that I am not a wallflower and I am pretty aggressive at times, I was when I was thin, but now, what happens, is things hurt my feelings, but I never let on to whoever it was, I privately take it home to deal with it. I think of of the hurt at being treated 'fat' is that it is so unfair. I usually don't notice it until somebody gets really obvious about it.

I am going to have 8 weeks to really build that self esteem that's gone missing in me and then keep in place for this trip...

[VermontMom]

When I was a kid, (the only overweight kid in my class) I would always be the one to first say something about myself being chubby; like I would try to get that established, that I KNEW I was the fat one, so that maybe others would lay off and not say it also, or maybe (please God!) not torment me and call me names? Or that I wanted them to know there was no false pretension on my part, I knew I was fat.

I was also smart and imaginative and funny, but that doesn't get you too far in popularity in fourth grade