heres the thing. i have spent a LOT of my life beating myself up for being fat. but thats not all that i am. its like if i were to beat myself up for being lesbian(which im not), or for being brunette(which i am). those are only facets of who i am. the fact of the matter is, Im pretty freaking amazing. im smart. im fun. people like me. ****, ive even managed to break up a marrage because someone wanted to be with me so badly. so im fat? i also drive an SUV. i also work in LA. i litter (sometimes). i dont recycle like i should. there are a lot of other things i should hate myself over. not something that i can change.
sidhe, I also didn't take offense. I enjoy discussing this in these forums, because it isn't so taboo here. We can say the "F" word (I mean fat, of course), and talk about our experience with it, without "riling the natives," as my husband would say.
If someone loves being fat, or is sexually attracted to only fat partners that seems pretty weird to me. It's not any weirder than the guy I saw on Ripley's Believe it or Not, who had his teeth sharpened, his whole body tatooed in spots, and "whiskers" inserted into his cheeks so that he would look like a leopard man.
I wonder if weird becomes bad, only when there are so many taboos about discussing it. We all assume it's something hugely terrible because we're really not supposed to talk about it in polite company. We're taught very early that we should never make any reference to someone's fat (unless it's behind their back or used in an effort to hurt them) and we shouldn't even talk about our own.
I have posted before that on several occasions I have used the "f" word in talking about myself (not bashing, just stating a fact. Such as telling someone I would prefer we not have lunch together in a restaurant that only had booths, because I was too fat to squish myself into most of them). On several occasions, the person was so uncomfortable with the word (even though I wasn't) he or she said without even thinking "you're not fat!" Yikes, I know they were trying to be kind, but it is just so funny. OF COURSE, I'm fat! Pretending that I'm not, really is just ridiculous. I'm not saying that I or my friends and aquaintences should go out of our ways to discuss exactly how fat I am when we get together, but come on when the subject does come up, we're all looking like idiots if we all pretend I'm a size 6.
That reminds me of a time that I was at a mall, browsing through a junior shop for my short, thin sisters. A clerk RAN up to me, to tell me that they had NOTHING in my size in the store (technically they had perfume, earings, socks, scarves, and purses I could buy for myself). Now, obviously this girl was a complete idiot. I don't know if she thought I imagined myself to be tiny, and was going to damage something by wanting to try it on. Or if she thought fat chicks do not know ANY skinny people they might want to buy a gift for. Or if she just wanted to make it very clear that I didn't BELONG there (I might get my fat cooties on the merchandise).
I have tons of stories that I suppose could have crushed my self-esteem, but I guess I've never taken myself (or anyone else) too seriously. We all say and do incredibly stupid things sometimes, and that doesn't change who we are or what we are worth. I think it was probably my father who taught me that, indirectly. He made fun of everything, and everyone, including himself in a gentle way. His main nicknames for me (all of us four kids have at least two) were jammer juicekins - fat jammers or fat kaplods. In fact, he still will call me by these nicknames almost interchangeably. Sometimes the "fat" is dropped, but even when it's in there, it's not insulting from him. I'm just his little girl, fat and all. It's funny, His nickname for my youngest sister, Mary is "Lucy Johnson," (Have NO idea where that came from) My sister Ann is "Anna Banana" or "Knees", and my brother is "Magnifico" or "Spookdum de Fighfa"
Hi I'm new.I've never been involved with this movement but I have heard of it.I'm guilty of being a hater.I hated myself for years and years.I wasn't a fat child I gained weight when I was about 13 and have been steadily gaining ever since.I'm now 32 and over 300 pounds.
I think a lot of my self hatred came from the fact that my Mom has always been extremely over weight.I was teased about it.I took that teasing and turned it on myself when I started to gain weight.I always was mad at my mother and blamed her for being over weight because I was getting teased for it.Then I started to gain weight and I hated myself because I was turning out to be just like her.That was something I always heard."You look just like your mother".I hated that.I still don't like being told that.LOL.
A few years ago I was having a really hard time.(I exited a high control religion and lost most of my family and all of my friends)I felt alone and ugly and unlovable.I had never had a boyfriend and I didn't think men looked at me at all.Then I took a really good look at myself.I came to believe that not only was I pretty and smart but men do look at me.I get hit on all the time.I just never believed the men when they did it before.I slowly came to realize I was a good kind person and I deserve to be loved for who I am not what I look like.
I still believe that.I'm trying to lose weight now to be more healthy.Not to try to get a man.I want to be able to walk down the street without getting out of breath.I want to be able to sit in an airplane with out touching the person next to me.I would be happy being over weight for the rest of my life as long as I get more healthy.
Now I've read this thread and I think I have more to work on then just losing weight.I need to work on not looking down on other over weight people.
I just don't know where I come down on all of this. I do think people should be able to be accepted for who they are. I also think what a person contributes to society is way more important than being fat or thin or blond or whatever (in whatever way they can - everyone has different gifts and abilities). I'm a big believer in not wasting the air you breath and being useful. But at the same time I know being fat is not healthy. I know being fat doesn't fit with my other values in terms of simplicity and right sharing of resources. So by being fat (consuming way more than I need) I violate my own beliefs daily. I don't want to accept being fat. I don't want to be that person I saw at the NH who had to have an extra wide hospital bed because he was too big for a regular hospital bed. I don't want to be the person who has to ride the scooter around the grocery store because they are too big too walk that far or have destroyed their joints from the weight. At the same time I feel for those people because I KNOW how hard it is to lose weight and how miserable they must feel. I have a serious case of cognitive dissonance going on!
How about her Hairspray co-star Nikki Blonsky? She's big and beautiful, which is easier to see once they get her out of that bouffant at the end of Hairspray.
I've never heard of Nikki Blonsky and never saw Hairspray, but I do know it's a comedy. I'm not saying there aren't beautiful fat actresses and handsome actors - I'm saying they aren't seen by the industry, who seems to think that if you aren't a size 4 you can't have a romantic relationship or be found attractive. I'm talking overall of course. There are the rare exceptions - but when there are the media makes fun of them and trys to turn it into a joke - like Kathy Bates hot tub scene. It's very sad, the false image of beauty they project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by princesspuffypants
heres the thing. i have spent a LOT of my life beating myself up for being fat. but thats not all that i am. its like if i were to beat myself up for being lesbian(which im not), or for being brunette(which i am). those are only facets of who i am. the fact of the matter is, Im pretty freaking amazing. im smart. im fun. people like me.
That's what I meant by my body is not my "self" - we aren't just fat bodies - We're the total package Baby! I know you work in Hollywood and if I'm wrong in my perceptions, please feel free to call me on it!
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Originally Posted by Princess Kitty
I slowly came to realize I was a good kind person and I deserve to be loved for who I am not what I look like.
Amen!
Sidhe - I also didn't take offense and hope you knew that. I agree with you!
This has been a very thought provoking thread. I've spent more time on it than I have on the boards in a long time. It's really made me think about the way I see myself and others. Wordlikeabell - thanks for starting this one!
I have tons of stories that I suppose could have crushed my self-esteem, but I guess I've never taken myself (or anyone else) too seriously. We all say and do incredibly stupid things sometimes, and that doesn't change who we are or what we are worth. I think it was probably my father who taught me that, indirectly. He made fun of everything, and everyone, including himself in a gentle way. His main nicknames for me (all of us four kids have at least two) were jammer juicekins - fat jammers or fat kaplods. In fact, he still will call me by these nicknames almost interchangeably. Sometimes the "fat" is dropped, but even when it's in there, it's not insulting from him. I'm just his little girl, fat and all. It's funny, His nickname for my youngest sister, Mary is "Lucy Johnson," (Have NO idea where that came from) My sister Ann is "Anna Banana" or "Knees", and my brother is "Magnifico" or "Spookdum de Fighfa"
Gotta love him!
This sparked a memory in me.
My family growing up was a very stable, idyllic bunch o' people. We're all big in several ways. My dad is 6', my brother 6'1. My beautiful mother is 5'8, now, although she was 5'10 when my parents got married. I'm 5'9, and my sister is the runt of the litter at 5'5. My mom, my sister, and I all wear size 9.5-10 shoes. My hands are gorgeous (I love my hands!): I have very long fingers and strong palms, and I wear size L or XL gloves. My hand, from wrist to fingertip, is 7.5 inches long (look at a piece of paper--almost the length of a short side). My dad has had weight problems all his life, and my mom had "baby weight" issues until we babies were in our 20s. We three kids have had weight problems all our lives.
The thing is, we were always taught that a person's body is their own business. We were taught that it is INSUFFERABLY rude to comment on someone else's body, and that we had NO right to pass judgment on anyone else. We were also taught that all bodies are acceptable. My mom and dad were very very careful not to pass on any of their own body angst. We also never ever saw them argue (and I still haven't seen it) but that's another story entirely. Anyway, the point is that my parents focused very sharply on teaching us that everyone's body is okay, and everyone's body is their own business. That's what I grew up believing, and I think that's part of why it didn't really feel like my body was bad even if by society's standards it was unacceptable.
Anyway. Wow, I'm longwinded. My DH is British. His family is very outspoken about these issues, and very unaccepting. His family feels it is their right to sit in judgment about every person who doesn't meet their physical standards, and to let that person know that they're falling short. As a society the British are plumping up, but they're in the beginning phases. Remember 30 years ago, when it was absolutely a moral failure on someone's part to be overweight? Remember when there was no valid reason (hormones, medications) and you just weren't trying hard enough? I remember being the ONLY overweight kid in my class all through school, and trust me, the popular acceptability of being overweight has changed. That's where the British as a country are right now: being overweight is a moral failing. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable to be around my inlaws because I know without a doubt that they are judging me and my DH. DH runs interference for me, and when they start in (as they inevitably do) I just get up and leave the room. Fat acceptance? Never heard of it. Why would you accept a defect of character, anyway?
The point of this ramble (sorry!) is that, like anything else, I think the FA movement has taken a good idea a bit too far. I can see the harm that judgment does in my British family, and I applaud my parents for working so hard to instill in us a sense that we and our bodies were okay, whatever they were. I agree that the idea of fat being a moral failing needs to go away. But frankly, if I want to lose weight, it's nobody's business what I do with my body. Just as being fat isn't a moral failing, losing weight isn't buying into the system, either.
I wonder if weird becomes bad, only when there are so many taboos about discussing it. We all assume it's something hugely terrible because we're really not supposed to talk about it in polite company. We're taught very early that we should never make any reference to someone's fat (unless it's behind their back or used in an effort to hurt them) and we shouldn't even talk about our own.
On several occasions, the person was so uncomfortable with the word (even though I wasn't) he or she said without even thinking "you're not fat!" Yikes, I know they were trying to be kind, but it is just so funny. OF COURSE, I'm fat! Pretending that I'm not, really is just ridiculous.
Hmmm, just occured to me I meant to reply to this in my last post too. You are SO right about teaching kids it's wrong to make reference to someone's size. I realized, I've done that with my son. I have taught him since he was very young not to comment on anyones appearance unless it was a compliment. Of course, that's ANYONE's appearance, be it that they are fat, skinny, bald, ugly, or handicapped. Of course, I've taught him NOT to say it behind their backs either! But I'd imagine, like any other kid, when I'm not around he does what he pleases.
The "You aren't fat" comments just KILL me! Like I don't know what my size is? Okay, I think some people actually do mean it now - since I'm smaller than they've ever known me to be so it's more of a "You aren't fat like you used to be" - but when I was 328 lbs people were telling me either "you aren't fat" or "you're tall - you can carry more weight" or "you're just big". That last one was always one of my favorites. It's like they were talking to their child like I do mine - "Don't say that person is a midget - they like to be called "Little People"." "Don't say that person is fat - they like to be called "big"." Political correctness gone mad!
like anything else, I think the FA movement has taken a good idea a bit too far. I can see the harm that judgment does in my British family, and I applaud my parents for working so hard to instill in us a sense that we and our bodies were okay, whatever they were. I agree that the idea of fat being a moral failing needs to go away. But frankly, if I want to lose weight, it's nobody's business what I do with my body. Just as being fat isn't a moral failing, losing weight isn't buying into the system, either.
I think this puts it in a nutshell for me. What I need to work on is making sure that my own weight loss isn't buying into the system, and I'm beginning to see that for me that will take vigilence. I have so many buried associations of thinness and beauty, thinness and success, thinness and happiness, thinness and (this is really finally it) power that I want to dismantle even as I (hopefully!) continue to become thinner. Because for me I know that a big contributing factor to my steady weight gain over the years was the conflict I felt between desperately wanting to be Thin and Beautiful and rebelling against a culture that told me I needed to be Thin and Beautiful. I wanted it so much I hated it. It ruled me. I fought too hard and too fast against my body and the deprivation turned me into an overeater.
Do other people feel that way, that dieting (the fast and hard variety) contributed to the weight gain?
the conflict I felt between desperately wanting to be Thin and Beautiful and rebelling against a culture that told me I needed to be Thin and Beautiful
.
Oh my yes! I know EXACTLY what you mean. I am not generally a person who believes I have to do something just because everyone else does. (Or at least, I try to be that kind of person). I am fascinated by how people follow what other people want them to do (perhaps why I became a social psychologist).
But I so strongly remember this FIGHT within me. On the one hand I wanted to be thinner, but I didn't want to do it only because it was what everyone thought I should do! That wasn't a good enough reason in my book. And so I fought the "ideal".
Now that I think about it, one of the biggest turning points for my weight loss journey this time revolved around health and mobility issues. Falling down the stairs and significantly injuring my coccyx is what did it. It's like I was finally able to "click" about weight loss when I was faced with physical limits. Yes, finding clothing to wear was a problem too -- it's not like these issues are completely independent of each other. But seeing myself as more and more immobile because of my weight was a significant factor in making weight loss a priority.
Quote:
Do other people feel that way, that dieting (the fast and hard variety) contributed to the weight gain?
_______
Yes!!!!
I often say I dieted my way to this weight. There were several times in my life when I refused to diet. Just didn't have time for it, or I was really identifying with Fat Acceptance theories (the main one being that dieting makes people fat). In college at around 250, and in graduate school at around 275, and when I was working two jobs plus overtime at around 305. During all these runs of non-dieting (up to 4 year stretches of time), I didn't gain an ounce. Or to be more precise, my weight fluctuated within 8 - 10 lbs (the amount of water I gain during TOM). When I reached 394 lbs, it was a VERY difficult decision to start dieting again. I was afraid it would only end in my exceeding the 400 lb mark for sure. Believe me, I've kicked myself in the head (and in my mind my mother too) for dieting at age 5. If I had never heard the word diet, would I be a fluffy, but healthy 160 - 170 lbs?
Can't turn back the clock, so I can only go forward, from here, but I do often wonder "what if?"
I haven't read much about FA but I will now. I do think that sometimes you have to go to the extreme to go from one side and end up in the middle. ie we are such thin/fat, appearance obsessed society that it will take some militance to break that very wrong mind set. I have pictures of me at 140 lbs in a bathing suit, all crouched up & trying to hide myself. I was very self conscious because society told me I should be 20 lbs lighter. That's just wrong.
Until recently, I was more than 100 lbs overweight but still healthy. I had low blood pressure, healthy cholesterol, etc. I felt good. But recently, at 54, my knees started to really, really hurt. I realized that this is catching up with me. It's going to affect my mobility.
So, I do think it is possible to be fat & healthy: I was for years. But I don't think it's possible to be old, fat & healthy. It's really the health issues that made me decide to do this. I think self-acceptance is great. I think changing a societal mind set that girls are supposed to look like models is a moral imperative, as is learning to accept differences:racial, gender, size etc. But anything that tells us that overweight carries no health consequences, does a disservice. IMHO.
I so agree. I would respect the militant fat acceptance perspective more if they said "I know fat increases my health risks, but I'm willing to take that risk because dieting makes me more unhappy than my fat does, and happiness is more important to me than life expectancy/mobility...."
I can at least buy that. Even in it's delusional extreme, but please (to paraphrase Judge Judy}, don't pee on my shoes and tell me it's raining.
I know you work in Hollywood and if I'm wrong in my perceptions, please feel free to call me on it!
My DH is British. His family is very outspoken about these issues, and very unaccepting. His family feels it is their right to sit in judgment about every person who doesn't meet their physical standards, and to let that person know that they're falling short. As a society the British are plumping up, but they're in the beginning phases. Remember 30 years ago, when it was absolutely a moral failure on someone's part to be overweight? Remember when there was no valid reason (hormones, medications) and you just weren't trying hard enough? I remember being the ONLY overweight kid in my class all through school, and trust me, the popular acceptability of being overweight has changed. That's where the British as a country are right now: being overweight is a moral failing. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable to be around my inlaws because I know without a doubt that they are judging me and my DH. DH runs interference for me, and when they start in (as they inevitably do) I just get up and leave the room. Fat acceptance? Never heard of it. Why would you accept a defect of character, anyway?
Like I don't know what my size is? Okay, I think some people actually do mean it now - since I'm smaller than they've ever known me to be so it's more of a "You aren't fat like you used to be" - but when I was 328 lbs people were telling me either "you aren't fat" or "you're tall - you can carry more weight" or "you're just big". That last one was always one of my favorites. It's like they were talking to their child like I do mine - "Don't say that person is a midget - they like to be called "Little People"." "Don't say that person is fat - they like to be called "big"." 
