I feel like Southwest Airlines owes these people more then just some stupid $200 vouchers. What they did was completely inappropriate. SWA needs to do something to standardize the way that they handle situations like that.
I checked out when the blogger felt the need to specify the race of the larger male. It clearly wasn't necessary and makes her outrage over weight discrimination seem somewhat hypocritical.
ETA: *Unpopular Opinion Alert* I have sat by larger people on planes and it is extremely uncomfortable. IMO at her size, it seems as if it would be uncomfortable sitting next to her. The way SW went about it was rude and demeaning, however, there is a valid reason for the policy.
I think some people are too big for an airline seat and should purchase another. I think there should be standards for this, however. It shouldn't be up to some gate agent's mood that day and it should be applied to all flights. It is ridiculous that these people were asked to purchase an extra ticket AFTER having like 3 SW flights. Also, I agree that telling them to purchase another ticket in front of everyone is embarrassing. If there was some kind of measurement that had to do with the actual seat that one could apply to each and every passenger, then they wouldn't have situations like this where another customer points to another and says, "hey, you didn't make THEM purchase another ticket!" Because she was right -- it wasn't fair. I think this process could be made more fair, though I doubt it will ever not be humiliating, even if they do it in private.
I do think this woman is probably too big for the seat. Notice how she never says how much she weighs, just how much she USED to weigh. She only talks about her current weight in reference to a football player. From that information, we find she is shorter than 5'5" and weighs OVER 265 lbs. That's really big! I'm 5'5" (so a bit taller) and when I weighed around 200 I was super-worried that I would be asked to purchase another seat. I definitely had to adjust the seatbelt so that it was as long as possible. This woman has over 60 lbs on me distributed over a shorter length. She mentions she needs an extender. From my personal experience, I honestly don't see how she can sit in the seat and not encroach on another. I don't really believe her when she says she is perfectly comfortable in the seat.
The football player she points to as an example of how the policy is unfairly applied is super-tall. His weight is distributed across his height and his butt probably fits in the seat. You can weigh more if you are taller and fit better in the seat. I seriously doubt he needs an extender. I still think the policy is unfair, I just think her example is ridiculous.
I checked out when the blogger felt the need to specify the race of the larger male. It clearly wasn't necessary and makes her outrage over weight discrimination seem somewhat hypocritical.
Yeah, I noticed this, too. She is so eager to complain that everyone is bigger than her, the woman who complained, the ticket agent, blah blah blah. She only said "african-american" because she wants everyone to reference their stereotype that all african-american people are fat. This guy wasn't even fat, he was fit. He is a professional athlete for goodness' sake.
Yeah, I noticed this, too. She is so eager to complain that everyone is bigger than her, the woman who complained, the ticket agent, blah blah blah. She only said "african-american" because she wants everyone to reference their stereotype that all african-american people are fat. This guy wasn't even fat, he was fit. He is a professional athlete for goodness' sake.
Exactly. Using a football player was a poor example anyways as most of them would register as obese or morbidly obese on the BMI chart (which is unreliable in my eyes) but in actuality are typically very fit.
I think some people are too big for an airline seat and should purchase another. I think there should be standards for this, however. It shouldn't be up to some gate agent's mood that day and it should be applied to all flights. It is ridiculous that these people were asked to purchase an extra ticket AFTER having like 3 SW flights. Also, I agree that telling them to purchase another ticket in front of everyone is embarrassing. If there was some kind of measurement that had to do with the actual seat that one could apply to each and every passenger, then they wouldn't have situations like this where another customer points to another and says, "hey, you didn't make THEM purchase another ticket!" Because she was right -- it wasn't fair. I think this process could be made more fair, though I doubt it will ever not be humiliating, even if they do it in private.
I do think this woman is probably too big for the seat. Notice how she never says how much she weighs, just how much she USED to weigh. She only talks about her current weight in reference to a football player. From that information, we find she is shorter than 5'5" and weighs OVER 265 lbs. That's really big! I'm 5'5" (so a bit taller) and when I weighed around 200 I was super-worried that I would be asked to purchase another seat. I definitely had to adjust the seatbelt so that it was as long as possible. This woman has over 60 lbs on me distributed over a shorter length. She mentions she needs an extender. From my personal experience, I honestly don't see how she can sit in the seat and not encroach on another. I don't really believe her when she says she is perfectly comfortable in the seat.
The football player she points to as an example of how the policy is unfairly applied is super-tall. His weight is distributed across his height and his butt probably fits in the seat. You can weigh more if you are taller and fit better in the seat. I seriously doubt he needs an extender. I still think the policy is unfair, I just think her example is ridiculous.
You basically took the words right out of my mouth. Honestly, I find sitting next to DH uncomfortable on flights (and he does NOT need an extender). At his highest weight he was 275 and he's 6'2" so his hips/waist would not be as large at the lady who wrote the blog. There's a good chance that she probably does encroach on the other passenger.
HOWEVER, there needs to be a clear policy in place. Maybe they could either go by BMI (ok, still not perfect but better) or hip size (probably the best approach?). Then a questionable passenger could simply be taken into a private room and measured. Yes, it's embarrassing so is having to buy special clothes from "fat stores". I've done that, not fun. Such is life.
Clearly the guy there was abusing his power and making them try to pay on the last leg of their flight is just silly. Everything about it was poorly handled, which just goes back to the original point that they need a clear policy in place, end of story.
BTW, I seem to remember hearing before that Southwest was notoriously bad with this?
I think the point of referencing his race was that people were afraid to start static with him on accounta getting accused of racism, but because she is white they felt they didn't have to be as sensitive with her.
Southwest has always been relatively upfront about their "passengers of size" policy, though I thought on non-full flights big people didn't have to pay for the second seat. The airline employees in the news story handled the big people the same way they handle everybody else - ice cold, with little regard to their feelings. If it's equality they're after, it seems they got it, for better or for worse.
that's all I am saying....i just feel there need to be better policies put into place dealing with these situations....and it definitely needs to be done in private. bobviously there are two sides to every story and the girl probably doesn't fit as comfortably in the seat as she claims....but that isn't what bothers me. She was speaking in anger and frustration and probably said things she shouldn't say....but she had good reason to be frustrated. If I was put in that situation, I would probably end up punching someone. It's just inappropriate. Southwest airlines needs to get some policy in place, and inforce it everywhere in the same ways.
I think the point of referencing his race was that people were afraid to start static with him on accounta getting accused of racism, but because she is white they felt they didn't have to be as sensitive with her.
I can't see SW letting every overweight minority fly without purchasing 2 seats due to fear of a race discrimination label or lawsuit. In my experience, SW agents are not the nicest and like you said, mostly treat everyone with the same lack of respect regardless of race. Since the blogger actually used a poor example (athlete, a foot taller than her, an assumption on his weight) I think her point was exactly what it looked like.
I think (bear in mind, I've only heared about the problem second-hand) the problem really is that of the airlines that have these policies few (if any) have clear, written policies, and enforcement is unpredictable and arbitrary.
People who have proven that they can fit in the seat comfortably without spillage (or are going to be sitting with relatives on both sides, so any encroachment into another passenger is going to be with a passenger who is ok with it) are told that it's not seat-encroachment that is the issue. That it's the extra fuel needed to lug the extra passenger.
However, peopple who point out that, "hey that guy weighs morer than me, and he wasn't charged" have been told it is a seat-encroachment issue.
So which is it, and why isn't a person who is required to pay for an extra seat once, ALWAYS asked to pay for an extra seat in the future? Why isn't there a standard that can be determined objectively (ideally before even talking with an airline staffmember) and which is enforced uniformly (and discreetly).
The airlines (in my opinion) need to decide and declare on which standard, the decision is to be made: weight, hip size, some ratio of the two... it doesn't matter but it should be decided, published and uniformly enforced.
And make it uniform, so that you don't get charged some times. It should be based on objective, measurable criteria, not the personal whim of the ticket agent (which is apparently generally the case)...
Personally, I wouldn't mind paying for a second seat, if the airline's decision to do so was based on objective criteria that I could review before boarding the airplane. Tell me in advance, not randomly. And come on, if a person were ok for the first two legs of the journey on the same airline, they couldn't "suddenly" get too fat for the seat unless they ate a small child duirng the journey. And if I paid for a seat, I'd also want to get that seat. I've heard of people getting charged for an extra seat, and than the airline filling that seat (sometimes with a small child whose parent had not paid for a ticket for the child because the child was in theory small enough to sit in the child's lap).
If it's left to the discretion of the ticket agent, that just opens up too many opportunities for discrimination and outright cruelty.
I've heard people say they've seen it being used to punish passengers the ticket agent has for some reason taken a dislike to (and have been told if you "kiss ***" you won't bech arged).
I shouldn't be able to sweet-talk my way out of the extra charges if I deserve them, and I shouldn't be able to bad-mouth my way into the extra charges if they aren't warranted either.
And re: the football player - sometimes a description is just a description. Maybe she thought the guy's race (or the fact that he's tall, or the fact that he's basically a semi-professional athlete who participates in a fairly violent contact sport) had something to do with him not being asked to pay extra in circumstances that seem a bit sketchy. Maybe not. Who knows? Doesn't negate the basic inappropriateness of Southwest's handling of the situation.
I'm so not looking forward to having to fly this summer. At least it won't be on Southwest!
Even if she was or may be in the wrong for making some own remarks of herself. I found the story rude and mean. It is something that should be done in private. Just like an employer getting on to an employee.
I am not as big as her but I make sure to cross my arms and legs just in-case in the airplane. And I mean really, I don't see the big deal. I've sat next to some big people but we're all people. Airplanes are uncomfortable any way you go about it. If I'm going to be upset about something it's not going to be someones size. It'd be that baggage costs now, or the price of tickets, or the unfairness in situations such as that.
I understand we all have different view points, but if the worst part of your day is being squished or uncomfy in an already uncomfy place- count yourself lucky. It's life. I'd rather love someone and smile and talk to them, than think about how annoying their size, attitude, or what have you is or may be.
There just comes a time in life, when you pick your fights, pick your problems, and realize it's life no one gets out alive. And being upset- well it doesn't do anything and is pointless. So, really the best we can all do. Is love one another, stop judging, and stop thinking that weight is the only problem here.
We could talk about smelly people, or people who smack, or the people who bring a ton of food on, or the people who stink up the bathroom, or.. you get my point.
I just figure no one made me perfect, if they did I missed the right path. I have no right to judge anyone else. Cause I have my own faults.
If I'd been there I would had spoken up and requested they do that privately. And, I woulda said something about people pointing others out.
It's sad that some are so self conscious, they have to bring others into it as well. Just goes to show society these days, and how mean people truly are.
They need direct and paper written policies obviously. Who knows maybe we could have a "large" section and "small" section that way people's days wont be ruined by one little problem. Oh dear!
Lol, made me think of something. Like Jillian says if it doesn't kill you- keep going. Which is a lot like if it doesn't kill you, get over it.
Last edited by ButterCup85; 05-17-2011 at 10:28 PM.
I too have mixed feelings about this.
First, southwest was beyond disrespectful and I am shocked at how poorly they handled this situation. There should be a standard for fitting into the seat and a protocol for approaching customers about the issue. Perhaps they would have to fit between two bars without touching or measure their width. Regardless, this woman was humiliated and that employee should be fired for his unprofessionalism.
On the other hand, I have sat next to people who took up half of my seat and it is quite frustrating. When I was 180lbs (@ 5"9') I felt like I was pushing the limit on my space...there is no way that this woman is not spilling over into the other passengers' seats. The fact that she told the employee that she could run faster than him shows me that she is a little immature herself. She is not representing overweight persons very well by making personal attacks-even if it is deserved.
Sunshine, I disagree with you. I'm also 5'9, and this summer I flew on a 5 hour flight. I was 250 pounds at the time. I fit into the seat just fine, and even had some room to spare. Oh, and it was Southwest Airlines. I wasn't even using the arm rest either...and I was perfectly comfortable. I think weight shouldn't necessarily be the only determining factor. People have different body types. People always think I am much lighter then I am, because apparently my weight is very much evenly proportioned. Right now I'm 230, and my own mother didn't believe I was over 200 until I stepped on a scale in front of her. I do like your idea of having to fit between two bars...but that could also be embarassing. They would need to do it in like a back room or something where other people weren't watching.
Oh My Goodness. Did anyone hear about this? This is just awful...
Honestly, I find sitting next to DH uncomfortable on flights (and he does NOT need an extender). At his highest weight he was 275 and he's 6'2" so his hips/waist would not be as large at the lady who wrote the blog. There's a good chance that she probably does encroach on the other passenger. 
