I heard once that "people think they need to lose weight to be happy, but someone realized that they needed to be HAPPY (first) to LOSE weight.
That was me. My whole mindset changed before I got the true desire to finally lose the weight. I didn't decide to lose it to get happy. I was shy and awkward. I started coming out of that shell, and in doing so, I quit smoking and lost weight. It was more a wake-up call of what the heck am I doing to myself.
Here's what I was getting at about overeating being neither a disease nor addiction in my mind. A disease is something one gets that requires medical treatment, in the elementary version. Overeating isn't something you "get", it's something you do. It's not something that requires medical help, but can be controlled through normal eating and exercise...learned behaviors. OTOH, an addiction is something I see as requiring intervention. It's something that can be controlled, but only with help. It's something someone got hooked into by accident or whatever.
If I start thinking of overeating as a disease, it's like telling myself that I couldn't help the way I got and that there's no cure, that I'm always going to be sick and can't be normal. And I think that's bull. I CAN be normal. I didn't learn to overeat in a day, I won't learn to eat normally in a day. I will have to RE-learn how to eat, and how to do it properly, over time.
If I think of it as an addiction, again, it's like saying it wasn't my fault. Circumstances led me to this. Ok, so maybe my family was always stuffing food in front of me. But "I" was the one choosing to eat it, and continue eating it after seeing myself getting bigger and bigger and bigger. If I say I'm addicted, I'm making an excuse for overeating and for any time I might slip and fail at trying to stop overeating.
I don't want excuses. I want to be normal and healthy. So I'll continue to look at overeating as something I learned wrong and need to re-learn and correct.
The word "addiction" gets used far too loosely. People say they are "addicted" to chocolate--well, what they mean is that they really really like it and will want to eat it if they have it. But I don't think anyone abandons their baby because of a Hershey bar. At least I hope not--if so, that would truly be an addiction and a pitiful state!
The only hope for those addicted to drugs, tobacco, or alcohol seems to be not to use those things. Period. It's not like you can have "a little" now and then. Food is different. We can't give it up completely. So I would say thinking of obesity as an addiction is not helpful. Yes, there are some foods that it's best I not have in the house, but I haven't entered prostitution or stealing in order to buy Doritos or ice cream, so I wouldn't say I am addicted to them in that sense.
As far as having to be happy first, I'm not going to wait until that happens.
I think if I had to choose, I would say it is an addiction. Obesity is NOT a disease. Someone gaining weight because they are on steroids for a medical condition doesn't count-that doesn't make it a disease, it is a side effect from a med. Not the same thing.
I believe some people are addicted to food..to the feelings of satiety. Addiction can absolutely have a physical component.
Anesthesiologists are the most common health care people to be addicted to narcotics. Is it because they can access them? Maybe, but lots of health care people can access drugs. New data shows that when an anesthesiologist holds a mask over a person's face, and they do this day in and day out, the anesthesiologist is exposed to constant small doses of drugs. That changes the brain chemistry and can trigger an addiction. But not all anesthesiologists shoot up fentanyl in the bathroom. What is the difference between those who do and those who don't?
Some people become obese because they overeat and they never have a physical addiction. There are other reasons for this self-destructive behavior.
Other people have brain chemistry alterations related to food. Food is legal and accessible.
To say that only one explanation is the right explanation does a huge disservice to a facet of the population. The causes of obesity are multifactorial. Why do some people indulge in self-destructive behaviors and others don't? There are soooo many answers to this, some biological, some emotional, and there are probably as many combinations of reasons as there are people who are obese.
You can be addicted to food and not overweight - it all depends on what you eat. You can retrain yourself to eat good foods. Some addicts (heroin or whatever) do recover.
beach patrol, my Dr. had an interesting take on the wt. gain with medicine. When he griped at me about my wt. , I cried and said that I had gained 50 lbs. in 3 yrs. since starting the high dose of steroids (prednisone). He calmly said the pill didn't cause the weight gain, what you chose to put in your mouth did. He said if a pill could cause a huge wt. gain, it would be given to all the starving children in foreign countries to help them gain wt. and keep them from starving. I had to really think about that one. Yes, steroids made me hungry but I chose to eat KFC, McDonald's , Taco bell. All that is what made me fat.
So Sorry! - but I take issue with your doctor's comment that if a pill could cause a huge wt. gain, it would be given to all the starving children in foreign countries to help them gain wt. and keep them from starving. Those children aren't starving because they don't eat enough, they're starving because they don't have enough to eat. BIG DIFFERENCE. Those starving kids CAN take medications that will make them want to eat more - but they already WANT to eat... they just don't have food enough TO EAT.
And it's NOT the pill ITSELF - it's what the pill does to you. Most medications have some sort of side effect(s) - some make you sleepy, some make your stomach upset, some cause dry mouth, constipation, blurry vision, etc. So why should it be such a reach to think that a pill can cause your "hunger stimuli" to go a bit whacky?? Sorry - but I do not trust any doctor that doesn't accept that. Plus, studies show that certain medications DO IN FACT effect/affect your hunger. And since all medications don't work the same on all people, I will state for the record that I KNOW certain meds have put some poundage on me. Is it ALL the meds fault? Of course not. I can choose between a meal of baked fish & broccoli, or a meal of cheeseburger & french fries. But my medication does indeed stimulate me to "eat more". And while on the meds, I crave carbs. A LOT.
Kinda funny in a way... I've actually had several doctors say different things throughout the years - for instance: The psychiatrist that put me on an antidepressant with my first bout of depression nearly 20 years ago told me "You may gain weight with this medication; most people do, but some do not." I DID NOT. But the SECOND time I battled depression, about 8 years ago, that same medication did not help with my depression, so I was given a different medication - I gained 30 pounds with the meds, and my doctor told me "I've never prescribed Paxil to any woman who hasn't gained at least 30 pounds on this medication." And on my unfortuante 3rd bout of depression, I have gained 20 pounds this time! - (3 different meds each time) So what's a person to believe?
My OB/GYN (current) warned me of weight gain during the perimenopausal & menopausal years due to hormones. The OB/GYN I had before her (male!) told me that PMS sufferings such as weight gain & diarrhea are all in a woman's head (I will NEVER have a male doctor AGAIN!)
My current GP believes (as do I) "a pill" can cause weight gain. And that while it isn't the pill itself, but several anti-depressants & other medications do stimulate the part of the brain that makes you say "I'm hungry." In fact, it's been studied for a long time now, & researchers are learning more & more about the effects of medications as related to weight gain &/or loss.
Antidepressants can affect weight in several ways:
* They may increase or decrease basal metabolic rate without changing caloric intake.
* They may affect hormonal changes and increase appetite.
Of course I DO agree that WHAT & HOW MUCH you put into your mouth is a great deal of weight gain - all I'm saying is that certain meds & so forth can & do make a difference.
And lilybelle... please know that I AM NOT taking issue with you! - just your doctor (well, really, his comment!) :
Last edited by Beach Patrol; 01-26-2007 at 01:36 PM.
Even at 360 lbs, I've always eaten far less than my slim, fit brother and father, though I can't deny that yo-yo dieting, inactivity, compulsive eating, and less than optimal food choices have contributed. My mother (5' tall, and 200 lbs, down from 260) eats very little, but being disabled, and unable to do much activity, along with a thyroid problem, she has great difficulty losing and/or keeping weight off.
We need to remember that there are many factors, not just one, that contribute to weight gain and obesity, some but not all of which, are under a person's control. "Pinning" it all on addiction or disease does a great injustice to the overweight or obese person, because it either says "it's all your fault, you big fat loser" or "there's nothing you can do about it, so don't bother trying." Neither of which is true.
We have no direct control over what weigh, which is why using the scale as our only measure of success will ultimately backfire. We have control over our healthy (and unhealthy) behaviors, but that's where are personal control ends.
We have no direct control over what weigh, which is why using the scale as our only measure of success will ultimately backfire. We have control over our healthy (and unhealthy) behaviors, but that's where are personal control ends.
We have no direct control over what we weigh? Huh? We have no control in how tall we are, our eye color or the weather. But our weight? I'm sorry I beg to differ with you. That is the ONE thing in life we DO have control over. I indeed was not CONTROLLing my weight, and that was my doing. If you change your behaviors and habits that is more then enough to control your weight. It's not certainly not easy, but it is certainly do-able. Some might have to do different things to control it according to different circumstances, but for the most part we can control whether we remain overweight or not. Whether we choose to or not, that's another issue.
I think what she means is that our "weight" is not just our body fat - it also includes muscle, how tall we are, genetics, etc. We have no control over that.
If I'm wrong, and it's certainly a possibility, it wouldn't be the first time or the 100th either, then I apologize. Although the words I posted I firmly believe, the apology is for misinterpeting what kaploids said. Again, kaploids I apologize if that's not what you meant.
Although if you factor in genetics, some people certainly DO have it more difficult then others, I still believe we ultimately have control over not necessarily what we weigh down to the very last pound, but whether we are obese or not. Nothing would have made me happier then to be 8" or 6" taller. That was not my lot in life. I've always believed had a been taller I would have been able to eat more and not be as obese, but I've since come to the realization that that is pure and utter nonsense. You get what you get when you're born, you grow up and then you deal with it - or not.
I am no expert here, but I believe addictions are controllable. Very difficult, but possible. The desire to always want that item may subside, but never totally cease. That's why they say alcoholics are recovering, not cured. It's an ongoing process. A recovering alcoholic has made the decision to stop drinking. A so called food addict, myself included has made the decision to stop overeating.
We all have our reasons as to why we chose to overeat. And like you said it, most often, but not always stems from something negative. We chose food to deal with our problems or situations or boredom or whatever. But we can also choose to stop dealing with our problems with food.
I agree with you 100% and I truly believe that this is one of the main reasons why over 90% of people who lose weight gain it back. They think they've beaten it, they think they're cured, but they've only recovered. Recovery is a lifelong process -- speaking as a former bulimic and anorexic, I know that I will never be rid of these mental disorders. Even at 300+lbs, the urge to go back to these behaviours is something I fight ever single day.
And I like someone else said, I filled the void of that addiction with another..eating. I went from Ana/Mia to COE during recovery and now I battle with that. I know it'll never end for me. I know I will never, ever be rid of this, but I wage the war nonetheless because I know I at least deserve better for myself.
And I know I put EDs in the category of addicition..for those of you who don't think it is, you probably haven't been through it. The high you get from not eating, or purging is like the same high a drug addict gets after a hit.
I definitely agree with SusanB that obesity is a symptom. As far as addiction, there are different kinds. From the research I've done on the topic in college (granted, nothing too expansive), there are certain drugs that are chemically addictive, like cocaine, and there are drugs that are habitually addictive, like marijuana. With either, you feel a high, but the brain is impacted differently, which is why one may be easier to control than the other. Certain foods, like cheese have been compared to some opiates in how they affect the brain, so maybe there's a little of both at play in regard to eating.
There is so much confusion even defining what is going on (habit, disease, addiction, etc.); how can we even begin to adequately treat the problem? Maybe part of the problem is that many of those in the field have had no direct experience with this affliction. As simone1ca also pointed out, it's nearly impossible for an outsider to understand. I tried talking to a (skinny) friend about my binging. She just quipped that I should eat little meals throughout the day (something I've tried for months at a time BTW; still binged at night). She couldn't comprehend the fact that hunger was not the reason why I binge. If there were one reason to pinpoint as the source of all the trouble, would that solve the problem? Do I binge when I'm sad? Yes. Do I binge when I'm happy? Yes. Is food my greatest source of physical pleasure? Yes. Ok. I know the answers to those questions. As GI Joe would say, "knowing is half the battle." Actually, I think it constitutels a lot less than half.
Anyway, before I ramble further, others here have expressed that everyone is different. I can't seem to find who posted about addicts never being cured, but recovering, but I believe it's a great point. All I know is that food will always have a certain control over me, but all I can do is fight to obtain an even greater control over it.
I agree with so many of you! And often on different sides of the coin, too!
First, I believe that addiction is psychological. There IS such a thing a physical dependancy, which is different from addiction. For example, a person in the hospital may be on an IV narcotic. There IS a physiological change and chemical dependancy that does develop. This is why the medication is withdrawn gradually, to prevent the person from having a reaction to a "cold turkey" cessation. BUT, not every person who has had an IV narcotic goes on to buy narcotics on the street corner. Not every one who has had Percocet winds up prostituting for cash to get the drug. Addiction is a complex issue, and the FIRST (and often easiest) step in recovery is physically getting off the drug. The MOST DIFFICULT and often impossible task is STAYING off the drug. If addiction was a purely physical issue, once the drug had cleared your system, you would no longer be addicted. This clearly is not the case.
Second, I think that genetically people vary greatly. Some are genetically tall, some are short, some have blue eyes, etc. Some people can run really, really fast, and others can lift cars over their heads but couldn't run to save their lives. Accordingly, I think that some people are genetically programmed to gain/retain weight easier than other.
BUT I don't think that this means that you are doomed to be large! If you look at the statistics, obesity has increased enormously (pun intended) over the past 50 years. It takes way more time for genes to express themselves in a population to this extent. The increase in weight can be attributed to a combo of diet and exercise. If you eat too much and move too little, you will get fat. Some get fatter and at a faster rate than others. And it doesn't take a whole lot of calories to maintain a higher weight, either.
As to the "disease" definition - in recent years, the definition of disease has been generally expanded from a simple term that signifies a disorder that affects organ/systemic functioning, to meaning anything that a patient has that results in identifiable symptoms. I think that obesity is not a disease in itself, but a result of a disease process (be it a metabolic disorder, for example, or a psychological disorder). You can't "catch" obesity, and it doesn't happen on its own. For example, if a person is obese as a result of compulsive overeating, is the compulsive overeating the cause of the obesity or did the obesity "just happen"? And YES, you will find on death certificates that a person died from the "consequences of obesity" not from obesity itself.
Anyways, does this really matter to the person who is obese? Probably not, but I think that excess weight is a symptom of a further disorder, and once the underlying cause is dealt with, the symptom of excess weight often resolves itself.
I've never studied whether food is truly a physiological addiction or not but this is my personal experience with food and why I would consider myself as having an addiction to food. Even if it's semantics and even if the food is a symptom of a psychological addiction, it's been my way to cope my entire life for whatever reason I started as a very young child. Addiction of a variety of substances or behaviors is rampant in my family. Yes I chose to eat the food but I can say that stopping the compulsive overeating/obsession with food has been one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my life and one of my biggest accomplishments.
All through my childhood I turned to food for probably many of the same reasons someone would turn to drugs. When I wasn't overeating my obsession with food still continued as I exercised too much on the verge of anorexia. When I could no longer abstain from food which had taken over my every waking thought, I became bulimic. I sought help once (free through my HMO) but not very good help as they just tried to get me on a healthy eating program and very little help with the emotional whys of my eating. I knew how to eat healthy. I could probably be a nutritionist with my knowledge of food! At one point I stopped focusing as much on food but I began to drink way too much. When I stopped drinking I turned back to food. This was my dark little secret although my closest friends definitely could see that I had food issues. But I confided in noone and because of my yoyo cycle of eating/starving I was never more than 40 pounds overweight.
I've done every diet imaginable and I've had bouts of success but food was always on my mind and each time I fell off the healthy band wagon I seemed to fall deeper into the food. I literally hit rock bottom when I became so addicted to sugar I could barely function from physical exhaustion and depression. My hair was falling out and my periods were irregular. When I went off the junk food I thought I would die as I went through the withdrawals including migraine headaches and vomiting just like someone would coming off of drugs.
I'm sure there are many ways to "beat" the food as many on these boards are amazing examples and can attest to. For me, it was the support of OA and focusing my energy on healing and doing the 12 steps that finally helped me to stop the eating and start living without using food to cope.
I feel like I've come out of a fog, a food fog. I feel amazing and grateful for my journey and truly believe I'm in recovery from food. I still think about food when I'm having a rough time but I have a new "addiction" which is a commitment to my own and my family's health and happiness
This has been hard to write and I almost don't want to hit the "submit reply" button but I've really got nothing to hide anymore and I feel strongly about this topic.
To clarify, I meant what I said literally, we have no "direct" control over what we weigh (at least not without a chainsaw). We only have control over what we do (eat, drink, exercise, sleep, react to stress... - all of which play a role in our weight and overall health).
If you want to improve your health and/or fitness level, you can modify it by improving your health habits, but if the number on the scale is your only goal and measure of success, you have failed before you've begun. The proof of that is the many ways in which people have endangered their health (with no care as to doing it) in order to reach some "magic number."
I see it often here and among most people I've encountered who are losing weight. They have a particular number in mind that they are trying to reach - and that is the only goal they have set. If they "fail" to reach the goal in what they have predetermined as a "reasonable time," they feel discouraged and believe they have failed. Worse, as they begin to feel they've failed, they begin to engage in unhealthy behaviors - going back to old habits, or trying dangerous new ones like - skipping meals, fad diets, supplements and drugs, whatever.
I think the best way to be successful is to remove weight loss as the primary goal (and instead view it as a reward or one of indicators that your new goals are being successful).
A life time of bad habits, and misinformation has brought me to this weight, getting healthy is going to be a long, and difficult journey, and the scale isn't always going to do what I want (who hasn't had a week or two in which you've done everything "right" and still have gained or not lost weight - if weight loss is your only goal, and especially if it is your only reward as well, you've just been "punished" for doing nothing wrong).
I have such a long way to go that if I only measure success by the weight I've lost, and how fast I've lost it, I would have to say I've been a complete failure, and would want to give up. But I don't feel that way because -
I can get a good night's sleep, as I no longer have sleep apnea, can now lay on my back, and can sleep without waking every hour due to excruciating pain.
Wheezing, sinus infections, bronchitis and other asthma symptoms have disappeared.
I can shop without an electric cart - which means I can now go into any store I want, not just Walmart. I can even walk the mall.
I can ride a bike (not very long, but I can do it, even made it to a park several blocks from our apartment).
I can do household chores I haven't been able to do in years.
There's more, but you get the point. The exact number on the scale is the least of my victories. The fact is, that my life is so changed for the better, that had the number not changed at all in winning these health improvements, I still would have counted myself successful (or at least should have).
Don't get me wrong, I still have that fantasy "magic number," in my head too, but I'm trying to remember to separate the fantasy reward from the very real rewards of improved physical abilities and overall health.
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